Click to Translate to English Click to Translate to French  Click to Translate to Spanish  Click to Translate to German  Click to Translate to Italian  Click to Translate to Japanese  Click to Translate to Chinese Simplified  Click to Translate to Korean  Click to Translate to Arabic  Click to Translate to Russian  Click to Translate to Portuguese  Click to Translate to Myanmar (Burmese)

PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
123456
Forum Home Forum Home > Main Forums > Latest News
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Omicron found in the U.S.
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Now tracking the new emerging South Africa Omicron Variant

Omicron found in the U.S.

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
WitchMisspelled View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group
Avatar

Joined: January 20 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 17170
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Omicron found in the U.S.
    Posted: December 01 2021 at 10:53am

The first case of Omicron has been found here in the U.S.  Surprisingly it was found in California.  I fully expected the first case to be found in NY. 

It's breaking news, there isn't even an article I can post online.  

Back to Top
Pixie View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: June 05 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 19668
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pixie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2021 at 1:49pm
Back to Top
roni3470 View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group
Avatar

Joined: August 30 2006
Location: Colorado
Status: Offline
Points: 5370
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roni3470 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2021 at 2:33pm

so I wonder if they tested because of recent travel because they said mild symptoms.  I always find that confusing.  If you have mild anything why would you get tested?

NOW is the Season to Know

that Everything you Do

is Sacred
Back to Top
ViQueen24 View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group
Avatar

Joined: May 14 2013
Location: Verona, PA
Status: Offline
Points: 12270
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2021 at 6:44pm

Simple.  If you have a mild cold, I can be around you, cuz I probably would only get a cold, too.

If you have a mild flu, I'm gonna want to stay away from you, because I can go into bronchitis pretty easily from what someone else experiences as a mild flu.  Last time I had bronchitis, I nearly had to be hospitalized.

If you have a mild case of Covid, I have been told that in all probability that if I caught it, my best case scenario would be long Covid.  Most likely, I would die.  If I die, assuming I didn't give Covid to my mum (in which case she would die), who would take care of her?

Not such a big deal if I catch the cold from you.  Or the flu, even, maybe.  But if I catch Covid from you, you damn well better hope my mother and I both die...

Edited to add:  Of course, not really applicable to right now, as I go everywhere masked and gloved, stay 6 feet or more from everybody, and scowl and growl alot if anyone gets too close.

 

I am the DZ Queen, and I approve this message.
Back to Top
KiwiMum View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: May 29 2013
Status: Online
Points: 29640
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2021 at 9:06pm

Originally posted by roni3470 roni3470 wrote:

so I wonder if they tested because of recent travel because they said mild symptoms.  I always find that confusing.  If you have mild anything why would you get tested?

This morning, here in NZ, a journalist said that an early sign of Omicron was a "slighty sore throat and a mild tickly cough". I think the journo forgot that we are in early summer here and hayfever is rife at the moment. I don't anyone who doesn't wake up with a slightly sore throat and a mild tickly cough because we live in an area of heavily pollinating forests. I don't even get bad hayfever and i've got those symptoms. 

I think this is half the problem, lots of people just don't feel ill enough to think it's covid. The list of potential symptoms is extensive. 2 of my cousins' main symptoms were a bad headache, and that was it. Just a bad headache but they were covid positive. And I know of a 52 year old man who not only felt fine, he felt positively brimming with health and commented on how well he was feeling and it turned out he had full on Covid and a very high viral load that he was shedding to all and sundry. There's no way he could have known he had Covid. He was also doubly vaccinated as well and it was only discovered he had this high viral load because he travelled in a car with another vaccinated person who subsequently had a really bad case of it. There seems to be very little rhyme or reason to it.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
Back to Top
KiwiMum View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: May 29 2013
Status: Online
Points: 29640
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2021 at 9:08pm

Originally posted by ViQueen24 ViQueen24 wrote:

Simple.  If you have a mild cold, I can be around you, cuz I probably would only get a cold, too.

If you have a mild flu, I'm gonna want to stay away from you, because I can go into bronchitis pretty easily from what someone else experiences as a mild flu.  Last time I had bronchitis, I nearly had to be hospitalized.

If you have a mild case of Covid, I have been told that in all probability that if I caught it, my best case scenario would be long Covid.  Most likely, I would die.  If I die, assuming I didn't give Covid to my mum (in which case she would die), who would take care of her?

Not such a big deal if I catch the cold from you.  Or the flu, even, maybe.  But if I catch Covid from you, you damn well better hope my mother and I both die...

I'd stay away from any vaccinated people then if I were you ViQueen, because the vaccinated are much more likely to be asymptomatic than the unvaccinated. So you are at more risk from someone who's ill and doesn't realise it than you are from the poor sod who's at home and in his bed.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
Back to Top
KiwiMum View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: May 29 2013
Status: Online
Points: 29640
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2021 at 9:10pm
Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
Back to Top
Pixie View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: June 05 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 19668
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Pixie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2021 at 9:29pm



You should be more discerning in your news sites.


https://academic.oup.com/joc/article/70/5/623/5912109


RT (formerly, Russia Today) is one of the most important organizations in the global political economy of disinformation. It is the most richly funded, well-staffed, formal organization in the world producing, disseminating, and marketing news in the service of the Kremlin. It is an agency accused of many things, but little is known about all the creative work involved in financing, governing, training, and motivating RT’s activities. To understand more about the production of political news and information by RT, we investigate its organizational behavior through in-depth interviews of current and former staff. Our data show that RT is an opportunist channel that is used as an instrument of state defense policy to meddle in the politics of other states. The channel has been established in the shadows of the Soviet media system and its organizational behavior is characterized by Soviet-style controls.

Back to Top
ViQueen24 View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group
Avatar

Joined: May 14 2013
Location: Verona, PA
Status: Offline
Points: 12270
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2021 at 10:29pm

Lol, Pixie, it should be RTF - Russian Troll Farm.

I am the DZ Queen, and I approve this message.
Back to Top
Technophobe View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2014
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 88450
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 2:10am

I am sorry, KiwiMum, but the unvaccinated are the biggest risk around us.  The vaccines do not prevent transmission, but they do limit it.

We most probably have the unvaccinated to thank for omicron.  Even the vaccinated who still go on to get covid have a far lower viral load than the unvaccinated who also have covid and most of those who are vaccinated don't get it at all, or spread it at all (about 60%).  People with covid but no symptoms are still contagious, but less so than the unvaccinated.  A masked person following the rules is far less likely to catch the bug from a vaccinated carrier than an unvaccinated one, or a vaccinated sufferer than an unvaccinated one.

Covid mutates at a high but steady rate.  The more viral units in any bloodstream, the more opportunities for new mutations to emerge.  Simple arithmatic.  That same simple sum applies to catching the damn bug too.  This is not an opinion.  It is a reiterating of scientific knowledge.

This ability to mutate more often is not just the anti-vax body's fault (although they are deeply at fault) but the whole world's.  We all know the WHO is pretty useless at its job, but they were right on one thing; we have to vaccinate the third world: "No one is safe until everyone is safe."  Smallpox was wiped out by ring vaccination; had it not been for the vaccine denyers, polio would have been too.  Covid is more contagious and easier to fail to spot, so the other control measures would be needed to suppress or wipe it out.  But vaccination is a VITAL part of that set of measures.  

The anti-maskers and non-self-isolaters, the denyers and the rule breakers are all at fault here, as are the disinformation bodies (like RT).  But the anti-vaxers are a huge part of the problem.  

I watch RT myself.  It helps ballance out the disinformation of other news sites, but that is not the same as believing everything I hear there.  I read Nexus for God's sake, but to date I have found only one truly brilliant article there (and I have subscribed to and read it religiously for fifteen years, as great scientific breakthroughs occur on the fringe - and that is as fringiest journal as you can get).  At least Nexus has good intentions, RT has an agenda.

How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
Back to Top
ksc View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group


Joined: February 09 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 10995
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ksc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 2:57am

Some experts believe Omicron variant may have evolved in an animal host

Kristian Andersen, an immunologist at the Scripps Research Institute, is among those who has been raising the idea that Omicron may have emerged from a reverse zoonotic event.

(A zoonotic event is when an animal pathogen starts to infect and spread among people. A reverse zoonosis is when such a virus passes back into an animal species.)

https://ldsreturnedmissionaries.org/some-experts-believe-omicron-variant-may-have-evolved-in-an-animal-host/

“I know that most people think that these [come from] immunocompromised individuals, and I do think that that’s plausible, but to be perfectly honest, I actually think this reverse zoonosis followed by new zoonosis seems more likely to me given just the available evidence of the really deep branch, and then the mutations themselves, because some of them are quite unusual,” Andersen told STAT.

“I don’t think we should dismiss that possibility, because I think it’s definitely on the table.”

A number of other scientists who study the evolution of viruses have told STAT they think the idea isn’t out of the question. Some place more weight on the theory that variants develop in immunocompromised people, while others feel there isn’t enough evidence at this point to favor one option over the other.

“Personally, I think it’s probably more likely it was circulating undetected, in an immunocompromised individual,” Emma Hodcroft, a molecular epidemiologist at the Institute of Social and Preventive Medicine in Bern, Switzerland, said via email. Having said that, though, Hodcroft insisted that it is important to explore the hypothesis.

Back to Top
ksc View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group


Joined: February 09 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 10995
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ksc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 3:00am

I would think an immunocompromised person is far more likely to be vaxed. I guess we can blame it on all those unvaxed rodents running around the world maskless....

Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 65816
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 4:22am

It's a bit pointless pointing fingers,

The fact is it here ,it's not going to go away,the chances it will mutation to something harmless or go the other way and become a "slate wiper" is unknown unless you at Delphi !!!!!

Consulting the Oracle.....

Unless we vaccinate the whole world all at the same time ,stop international travel,for 6months we screwed......

so we screwed.......

Just accept it.....

Take care all 😷😉💉


Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
Technophobe View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2014
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 88450
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 5:47am

Usually immunocompromised people are vaccinated, but not always.  Either way they still have no effective protection against the virus; that is why some are not vaccinated - no point.

That is also why it is our duty (if we care about them at all) to get the vaccine, wear a mask and socially distance.

How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
Back to Top
ME163 View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: September 16 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 4552
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ME163 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 6:16am

Football is the devil, so are the unvaccinated. 

Back to Top
WitchMisspelled View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group
Avatar

Joined: January 20 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 17170
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 7:44am

Originally posted by roni3470 roni3470 wrote:

so I wonder if they tested because of recent travel because they said mild symptoms.  I always find that confusing.  If you have mild anything why would you get tested?

One of two things happened here.  Either authorities got plane manifests and contacted those who were in SA in the last two weeks, or the person saw the news, saw the symptoms and decided to be a responsible human being.  

I mean seriously... only a self-centered idiot would fail to get tested under those circumstances.  Either that or someone who lives in bumfuk nowhere and doesn't watch even so much as local news.  

Back to Top
ksc View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group


Joined: February 09 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 10995
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ksc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 7:51am

First US case in NYC?

The person with the Omicron variant is an adult male, is a resident of Hennepin County, and had been vaccinated. The person developed mild symptoms on Nov. 22 and sought COVID-19 testing on Nov. 24. The person’s symptoms have resolved.  The person spoke with MDH case investigators and reported traveling to New York City and attended the Anime NYC 2021 convention at the Javits Center from Nov. 19-21. The person was advised to isolate from others. Minnesota epidemiologists will continue to investigate in collaboration with New York City and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Back to Top
Dutch Josh View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group


Joined: May 01 2013
Location: Arnhem-Netherla
Status: Offline
Points: 94007
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 8:09am

[url]https://twitter.com/BertMulderCWZ[/url] or https://twitter.com/BertMulderCWZ ;




All the S-mutations make me think that this would S-Drop on sewer data.  Which is why I think Omicron is already super-spreading in Palo Alto, CA.  Look at the slope of this ramp... it's off the charts.


Afbeelding


DJ Sewage-data as early warning. UK "S-gene dropout" (deletion 69/70) indicating Omicron also taking over Delta in UK ;

A rise in possible #Omicron in England—tripling (0.1 to 0.3) of S-Gene dropout PCR signal, which is a proxy for Omicron (before DNA sequencing confirms).  estimates this represents around ~60 cases in Vlag van Engeland. Still early—but it displacing #DeltaVariant is not good sign. Collectie


Afbeelding

31

316

809



 

We will see this in lots of places...Sewage samples, old test-sets can be checked to see if del 69/70 can be detected/dated to learn when it started spreading.

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
Back to Top
roni3470 View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group
Avatar

Joined: August 30 2006
Location: Colorado
Status: Offline
Points: 5370
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roni3470 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 9:07am

hey witch....i agree.  My family and I have all been tested at least 3 times.  We have been sick a lot so actually had symptoms and never had COVID>  I would swear i have had it multiple times but all tests negative and one anti body test negative.  I am fully vaccinated now with 3 pfizer shots.  I think everyone should get tested even from flying but that just me!  

NOW is the Season to Know

that Everything you Do

is Sacred
Back to Top
KiwiMum View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: May 29 2013
Status: Online
Points: 29640
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 12:52pm

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

I am sorry, KiwiMum, but the unvaccinated are the biggest risk around us.  The vaccines do not prevent transmission, but they do limit it.

We most probably have the unvaccinated to thank for omicron.  Even the vaccinated who still go on to get covid have a far lower viral load than the unvaccinated who also have covid and most of those who are vaccinated don't get it at all, or spread it at all (about 60%).  People with covid but no symptoms are still contagious, but less so than the unvaccinated.  A masked person following the rules is far less likely to catch the bug from a vaccinated carrier than an unvaccinated one, or a vaccinated sufferer than an unvaccinated one.

Sorry Techno but this is simply not true. The research out shows that vaccination makes no difference to viral load. None. I can't post you the research but you can find it. Dr John Campbell, who only comments on peer reviewed scientific papers did a whole broadcast on this. Sweden, using it's entire population also proved this. There is even research from America that says that the vaccinated have a higher viral load than the unvaccinated.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
Back to Top
KiwiMum View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: May 29 2013
Status: Online
Points: 29640
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 12:59pm

Originally posted by roni3470 roni3470 wrote:

hey witch....i agree.  My family and I have all been tested at least 3 times.  We have been sick a lot so actually had symptoms and never had COVID>  I would swear i have had it multiple times but all tests negative and one anti body test negative.  I am fully vaccinated now with 3 pfizer shots.  I think everyone should get tested even from flying but that just me!  

Over here they are proposing charging people for testing unless they have symptoms that a doctor or senior nurse thinks are severe enough to warrant testing. So that would mean, if introduced, that they wouldn't test you for mild or no symptoms. As it is, to get tested in my local town you have to pass a series of questions and if the nurse thinks it unlikely that you have come into contact with a covid case, then they refuse to test you. It's madness. The way round it is to say you have a friend who is a port worker. Then they'll test you immediately.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
Back to Top
KiwiMum View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: May 29 2013
Status: Online
Points: 29640
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 1:00pm

Originally posted by KiwiMum KiwiMum wrote:

Originally posted by roni3470 roni3470 wrote:

hey witch....i agree.  My family and I have all been tested at least 3 times.  We have been sick a lot so actually had symptoms and never had COVID>  I would swear i have had it multiple times but all tests negative and one anti body test negative.  I am fully vaccinated now with 3 pfizer shots.  I think everyone should get tested even from flying but that just me!  

Over here they are proposing charging people for testing unless they have symptoms that a doctor or senior nurse thinks are severe enough to warrant testing. So that would mean, if introduced, that they wouldn't test you for mild or no symptoms. As it is, to get tested in my local town you have to pass a series of questions and if the nurse thinks it unlikely that you have come into contact with a covid case, then they refuse to test you. It's madness. The way round it is to say you have a friend who is a port worker. Then they'll test you immediately.

Oh and the proposed charge will be between $180 and $250 a pop! Seriously, who's going to get tested at those prices?

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
Back to Top
KiwiMum View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: May 29 2013
Status: Online
Points: 29640
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 1:07pm

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

I watch RT myself.  It helps ballance out the disinformation of other news sites, but that is not the same as believing everything I hear there.  I read Nexus for God's sake, but to date I have found only one truly brilliant article there (and I have subscribed to and read it religiously for fifteen years, as great scientific breakthroughs occur on the fringe - and that is as fringiest journal as you can get).  At least Nexus has good intentions, RT has an agenda.

I actually had to look up what RT was. I don't watch it. The article I quoted was one that was linked through another news agency. I'd never heard of RT until you mentioned it. I limit myself to reading scientific papers and research and to the opinions of medical doctors. There's too much wild conspiracy crap out there. I was talking to a friend recently who has developed such extreme conspiracy theories about all things Covid that I actually said to my husband I thought she was on the brink of insanity. She's gone down that rabbit hole and it has consumed her entire being.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 65816
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 1:17pm


[/QUOTE]

I limit myself to reading scientific papers and research and to the opinions of medical doctors. There's too much wild conspiracy crap out there. 

[/QUOTE]

There in lies the problem......

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
roni3470 View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group
Avatar

Joined: August 30 2006
Location: Colorado
Status: Offline
Points: 5370
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roni3470 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 1:45pm

I can't speak for everywhere but in Colorado, the vaccinated versus unvaccinated with COVID in hospitals right now is 20% vaccinated to 80% unvaccinated.  So the unvaccinated are our biggest threat because they are filling up more hospital beds and putting a strain on our healthcare system.  I don't give a rats ass about viral load but if my kid gets into a wreck and can't get a hospital bed, then there will be hell to pay.

NOW is the Season to Know

that Everything you Do

is Sacred
Back to Top
Technophobe View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2014
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 88450
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 3:17pm

Originally posted by KiwiMum KiwiMum wrote:

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

I am sorry, KiwiMum, but the unvaccinated are the biggest risk around us.  The vaccines do not prevent transmission, but they do limit it.

We most probably have the unvaccinated to thank for omicron.  Even the vaccinated who still go on to get covid have a far lower viral load than the unvaccinated who also have covid and most of those who are vaccinated don't get it at all, or spread it at all (about 60%).  People with covid but no symptoms are still contagious, but less so than the unvaccinated.  A masked person following the rules is far less likely to catch the bug from a vaccinated carrier than an unvaccinated one, or a vaccinated sufferer than an unvaccinated one.

Sorry Techno but this is simply not true. The research out shows that vaccination makes no difference to viral load. None. I can't post you the research but you can find it. Dr John Campbell, who only comments on peer reviewed scientific papers did a whole broadcast on this. Sweden, using it's entire population also proved this. There is even research from America that says that the vaccinated have a higher viral load than the unvaccinated.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01316-7

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext

Briefly the peak viral load can equal the unvaccinated, but that is BRIEF, mostly they fall considerably below the unvaccinated numbers - it the disease is contracted at all by the vaccinated.  www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2074


That was the Lancet, the British Medical Journal and Nature..  Campbell is a great guy, but he is a nurse.  These are the scientists.

How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
Back to Top
WitchMisspelled View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group
Avatar

Joined: January 20 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 17170
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 3:30pm

Alrighty....  just finished watching a press briefing by NY Governor Hochul and NYC Mayor DiBlasio.  


Within 12 hours of the announcement about the Minnesota case, NY tracers found 10.. count 'em TEN cases in New York State.  5 in the metro area and 5 in other parts of the state.  Only one, a 67 year old woman is confirmed to have had one shot (probably J&J) and booster status is unknown. As of that presser, the only one that travelled to SA was  the aforementioned case.  The condition of the other cases was not announced nor was their travel history, but my guess is they were all travelling over Thanksgiving.


Back to Top
KiwiMum View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: May 29 2013
Status: Online
Points: 29640
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 9:35pm

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

That was the Lancet, the British Medical Journal and Nature..  Campbell is a great guy, but he is a nurse.  These are the scientists.

You're right Techno, John Campbell is a nurse but one with a Phd and 40 years of medical experience and I suspect that makes him more qualified to comment on these things than you or me.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
Back to Top
A-I View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member


Joined: August 15 2021
Status: Offline
Points: 4925
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A-I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 9:52pm

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

Originally posted by KiwiMum KiwiMum wrote:

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

I am sorry, KiwiMum, but the unvaccinated are the biggest risk around us.  The vaccines do not prevent transmission, but they do limit it.

We most probably have the unvaccinated to thank for omicron.  Even the vaccinated who still go on to get covid have a far lower viral load than the unvaccinated who also have covid and most of those who are vaccinated don't get it at all, or spread it at all (about 60%).  People with covid but no symptoms are still contagious, but less so than the unvaccinated.  A masked person following the rules is far less likely to catch the bug from a vaccinated carrier than an unvaccinated one, or a vaccinated sufferer than an unvaccinated one.

Sorry Techno but this is simply not true. The research out shows that vaccination makes no difference to viral load. None. I can't post you the research but you can find it. Dr John Campbell, who only comments on peer reviewed scientific papers did a whole broadcast on this. Sweden, using it's entire population also proved this. There is even research from America that says that the vaccinated have a higher viral load than the unvaccinated.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01316-7

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext

Briefly the peak viral load can equal the unvaccinated, but that is BRIEF, mostly they fall considerably below the unvaccinated numbers - it the disease is contracted at all by the vaccinated.  www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2074


That was the Lancet, the British Medical Journal and Nature..  Campbell is a great guy, but he is a nurse.  These are the scientists.

 

From your cited BMJ article " “We don’t yet know how much transmission can happen from people who get covid-19 after being vaccinated—for example, they may have high levels of virus for shorter periods of time. 

"May" is not a scientific word of finding of fact is it, interesting that you state it as "but that is brief" as if it were a statement of fact. Clearly that is NOT what they said.

And last but not least I find it very interesting that you failed to include the final conclusion of the very Lancet paper that you cited.

our findings suggest that vaccination alone is not sufficient to prevent all transmission of the delta variant in the household setting, where exposure is close and prolonged.

And then there is this Lancet paper on

The epidemiological relevance of the COVID-19-vaccinated population is increasing

And it's conclusion

 It appears to be grossly negligent to ignore the vaccinated population as a possible and relevant source of transmission when deciding about public health control measures.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00258-1/fulltext?s=08#%20


You mean like those scientist???

"Facts don't care about your feelings" I'M A UNVAXXED DEVIL so kiss my rebel ass.
Back to Top
Technophobe View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2014
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 88450
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2021 at 4:48am

Absolutely!

Certainty is a product of faith; it belongs in churches and temples.  

Science will report trends and extrapolate probable results from those trends.  But the definitive answers take time.

If you object to that you don't understand the scientific method.


How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
Back to Top
KiwiMum View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: May 29 2013
Status: Online
Points: 29640
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2021 at 12:21pm

Originally posted by A-I A-I wrote:

And it's conclusion

 It appears to be grossly negligent to ignore the vaccinated population as a possible and relevant source of transmission when deciding about public health control measures.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00258-1/fulltext?s=08#%20

That sums up my concerns about the current wave of virtue signalling public health measures. The reward for being vaccinated is an official exemption pass from being part of the spread that's simply not true. Too many vulnerable people are walking around feeling they are invincible because the government keeps banging on about the unvaccinated being the problem. The only member of my family to date who has ended up in a Covid ward is a 56 year old male cousin who was doubly jabbed and felt invincible. What did that feeling get him? 10 days on a Covid ward with IV antibiotics, saline and steroids and then 30 days of blood thinning injections to self administer at home when he was released. Had the public narrative been more honest perhaps he would have taken more care.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
Back to Top
A-I View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member


Joined: August 15 2021
Status: Offline
Points: 4925
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A-I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2021 at 1:03pm

Originally posted by KiwiMum KiwiMum wrote:

Originally posted by A-I A-I wrote:

And it's conclusion

 It appears to be grossly negligent to ignore the vaccinated population as a possible and relevant source of transmission when deciding about public health control measures.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00258-1/fulltext?s=08#%20

That sums up my concerns about the current wave of virtue signalling public health measures. The reward for being vaccinated is an official exemption pass from being part of the spread that's simply not true. Too many vulnerable people are walking around feeling they are invincible because the government keeps banging on about the unvaccinated being the problem. The only member of my family to date who has ended up in a Covid ward is a 56 year old male cousin who was doubly jabbed and felt invincible. What did that feeling get him? 10 days on a Covid ward with IV antibiotics, saline and steroids and then 30 days of blood thinning injections to self administer at home when he was released. Had the public narrative been more honest perhaps he would have taken more care.

That reminds me of a conversation I had with one of my best friends and his wife both of whom were vaxxed sometime ago. They were gobsmacked when I told them the vaxxed can and do get covid and spread it. Their response was and I quote verbatim "that's not what the news or the government says". I had to sit them down in front of a computer and pull up numerous studies to prove it to them. Their reactions and responses I think are somewhat typical. On the positive side it did change some of their social behaviors regarding covid going forward.


"Facts don't care about your feelings" I'M A UNVAXXED DEVIL so kiss my rebel ass.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down