Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
Homemade Sambucol |
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Mountainwinds
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Posted: March 27 2006 at 9:05am |
This may have been mentioned. Looking at the Sambucol thread, one thing to concider is, Sambucol contains echinacea which does boost the immune response and maybe the Cytokine response to it.
As far as elderberries go, you can make your own "homemade" sambucol without the echinacea which has been proven to work on the flu, and studies lately have shown elderberries might be effective against the bird flu.
And if taken when bird flu enters your area, and before you contract it, it should not ever get to the point of a Cytokine Storm as it will keep the viral load to a minumiun.
This is much cheaper than buying sambucol, and does the same thing, so you can afford to have more onhand.
Simply take a qt. jar and fill 1/3 full of "dried" elderberries. Fill the jar with 80-90 proof vodka (cheap vodka). Let set for two weeks, shaking every couple of day. Take two tablespoons a day for preventative care, and two tablespoons four times a day after you contract the flu, bird or otherwise. You will need a qt to make it thru the wave of flu, or more if you start taking it early. And since it will come in three waves, three qts will be needed.
This stuff smells bad, and tastes worse, so take it in juice or soda to make it more user friendly.
Herbs can be found at Herbal.com. 1 lb is $5.30 last time I looked, and will make three qts. This is not "snake oil" and does work for the flu, and I see no reason why it will not work for bird flu.
Hope this helps someone.
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Thank you Mountainwinds for bringing this back up!!!
This is exactly what I did. I bought 20 lbs of the dried elderberry and "brewed" up 10 lbs and have vacuum sealed the other 10 lbs in abeyance. Plus I have enough cheap vodka to float a small ship... and I don't even drink.
I cut mine with 50% raw honey... that's expensive but I chose it for honey's health properties as well. We will use it prophylacticly, hence the huge quantity.
SZ
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I want to add that this can be prepared for small children as well. If anyone is interested, I will post the preparation of it.
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Mountain, PLEASE post the info. If you are talking about non-alcohol extraction, it would also apply to pregnant women and people who must avoid alcohol. It would be a great service and I thank you in advance.
(I have heard of a glycerin method but don't know the spec's)
SZ
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carverhomeopath
advanced Member Joined: March 04 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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How interesting! I just went into our Materia Medica. We do have Samb as a homeopathic rem. And suprise, suprise..... one of the key notes is CHILD AWAKES SUDDENLY, NEARLY SUFFOCATIN, SITS UP, TURNS BLUE. CANNOT EXPIRE. MILLER"S ASTHMA.
This is interesting in the blue color. The hands turn blue. And they turn blue with cough. Again the natural signature written in the herb comes out beautifully in the remedy. And if I recall reading about the 1918 flu, there was a dark blue cast to people when they were close to death. Although the elderberry blue cast may not be as dusky as the 1918 flu was. Carver Homeopath |
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carver homeopath
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To make this for children. Using an electric stove, bring the elderberry tincture to a slow, slow, slow simmer. Just enough to make a bubble or two. To much heat will destroy the medicinal value.
Stir well until the tincture turns to a thin syrup. By this time, all alcohol should be gone from it.
This will have to be refridgerated as it will not keep very well since the alcohol has been removed.
You may add this to juice, or add some sugar, as kids may not like the taste. But, do not add honey for small kids, as honey is bad for them.
There is another method, but I better make sure I've got it right before posting.
Elderberries, do not prevent the flu, but stops the virus from replicating, thus allowing your immune system to fight it, without going into overload and causing the cytokine storm.
Hope this helps someone.
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I have also read in a couple of places, where you can take a cup of hot water, add a dose of the ticnture and let it steep for five minutes, This should let most of the alcohol evaporate.
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Another method, is to make a double boiler. Add equal amounts of tincture and vegetable gylcerine. Using very low heat, cook it down to where you have half of the liquid you started with.
This is a gylcerine tincture having not much more than 5% alcohol.
This will be somewhat sweet, and will be close to that of an extract.
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Here is a great site for elderberry use.
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Ironstone
Valued Member Joined: March 13 2006 Status: Offline Points: 383 |
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bump...for newbies
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Ironstone
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sweetpea
V.I.P. Member Joined: March 27 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 299 |
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Sambucol does make plain elderberry syrup, as well as the one with the echineacea - I have both. The plain syrup is in storage, the other with echineacea is to use now when family members get symptoms of the flu going round - thank goodness the flu season is waning.
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"When an emergency arises, the time for preparation is past."
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Herbalists have found the the most potent part is the berries. Sambus Nigra is the elderberry to use.
Some of the other elderberries are poison.
There is a place that sells the plants, but I don't remember the name now. Will try to find it.
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redcloud
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Advisor,
Where did you get your 20lb of elderberries? Red |
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Ironstone
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Ironstone
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calendula
Valued Member Joined: February 18 2006 Status: Offline Points: 345 |
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FYI: Please read extensively about elderberries and BF ( studies and research) before you make decisions. IMO> look into oregano oil, and lauric acid ( found in coconuts) to reduce viral loads without these stimulating strong immune system response.
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I am not here to reason, I am here to create"
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Veazie
Experienced Member Joined: April 14 2006 Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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There is evidence that black elderberry extract (trade name: Sambucol) can reduce the risk of contracting ordinary influenza strains, or shorten the course of disease in those who contract the typical flu. While black elderberry extract be appropriate for ordinary Type A influenza, it could make avian flu more lethal. Ordinary strains of flu do not trigger massive production of TNF, and ordinary flu viruses are generally susceptible to the action of TNF. Avian flu, by contrast, does trigger massive production of TNF (as much as a 45x increase), while the virus is relatively resistant to the anti-viral effects of TNF. If TNF is a significant cause of the illness and mortality in avian flu, anything that increases TNF would be undesirable. It has been pointed out that black elderberry does not just increase TNF and other cytokines. It also may reduce the spread of the virus through inactivation, or exert anti-inflammatory effects as well as contributing to the cytokine storm. It may be that combining elberberry with other anti-inflammatories may allow it to check the infection without producing tissue destroying levels of cytokines. But there is insufficient evidence to make a solid conclusion, while there are significant red flags that should be raised about the mode of action of elderberry. |
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Ironstone
Valued Member Joined: March 13 2006 Status: Offline Points: 383 |
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Each person must make up his/her mind about using elderberries. The tested facts are:
1) Elderberries have been double blind tested and shorten as well as reduce the flu and its symptoms...on both A and B
2) Elderberries reduce the viral load by removing the "spines" on the virus
3) Elderberries increase the action of the bodies immune system (no figures on how much)
4) There are no known medical complications when used with other meds with the exclusion of possible allergy
The above can be researched on the web and there are a number of medical abstracts written on it. Also the Harvard School has some info on their alternative Med site. I would suggest people do some reading on it.
The papers written on SARS indicate that those who survived ARDS had a lower viral load. There also seem to be the same implications in H5N1 deaths and survivals.
Will elderberries remove enough of the viral load to save the victim? Will elderberries increase the effectiveness of the immune system enough to increase a cytokine storm? No one knows as these have not been tested. Sambucol has been tested on H5N1 in vitro and destroyed 99% of the virus (British research by Dr. John Oxford in a university lab)
Each of us must make our own decision on this but read the available studies that can be found online. They are done by scientists and not by someone selling alternative medicine products. The question of taking it for infection of H5N1 is an individual decision but please make it based on the available science.
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Ironstone
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I have 9 qts made up, and I am going to start taking mine when it hits close to my state. If I take it before I get the flu, it should keep the viral load to a minimum from the start, and there should not be any problems from a cytokine storm.
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Ironstone
Valued Member Joined: March 13 2006 Status: Offline Points: 383 |
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Mountainwinds, like you, my decision is to take it when it gets to the US. I am hoping the lessening of the viral load will help to survive it. I wish there was some testing on H5N1 and humans but i can certainly see why there is not lol. In hopes of dampening the cytokine storm i have selected an antibiotic with anti-inflammatory properties. Because there are really no meds to take on this beast, we must try to do what we can with what we have. I hope we have made the correct decision.
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Ironstone
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redcloud
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Calendula,
I bought some oregano oil after learning about cytokine storms and ARDS. It seemed a prudent thing to do. Now I'm a bit confused about which to take and when. I have a background in human physiology, but after growing up with a bunch of docs who would have thought that anything herbal is voodoo, it is hard to come to grips the use of either oregano or elderberry. It would be great if some herb follks here could outline a protocol for the use of these compounds, and under what circumstances each would be used. "Conventional" medicine types, like me, could use the guidance, I suspect. |
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Ironstone, which antibiotic would that be? I was looking at other things people had mentioned, but I have several types of antibiotics onhand, and it would be good, if it were one of them.
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Ironstone
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Mountainwinds, check out some abstracts on the web for use of eytromycin against virus in lung infections. There are some possibly serious drug interactions tho so must be researched if one is taking other drugs.
Edited by Ironstone - April 16 2006 at 1:35pm |
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Ironstone
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Redcloud, these are foods, and can be taken whenever you want, and as much as you want.
In the 1980s, virologist Madeline Mumcuoglu, Ph.D., set out to determine by what mechanism elderberry successfully defeats the flu. She found that the action of elderberry extract was to prevent viral hemagglutinin, or the process of the invading cells using their spike-like projections to introduce its enzyme into healthy cell membranes. She further noted that the viral enzyme is also neutralized in the presence of elderberry extract.
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redcloud
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MW,
Thanks. Because of my background I tend to look at anything medicinal as, well, medicine, with all its attendant warnings and caveats. An because I've been unable to obtain much Tamiflu, even given all the docs in my family, I've been casting about for other interventions. |
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calendula
Valued Member Joined: February 18 2006 Status: Offline Points: 345 |
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RedCloud: I can only educate based on my knowledge and research. The reason I have chosen oregano oil and lauric acid in trying to help myself and my family in case infection with BF is due to their antiviral properties. Oregano has one of the most anti-viral properties known in any herb. Lauric acid ( coconuts flesh) has shown in research to reduce viral loads in HIV patients. Why these 2? IMHO- sambucol and elderberries have shown to be effective against Influenza type A & B, and although BF is an influenza type A virus it differs a lot from it. Why I did this?> From what I know what BF virus, it is a lipid coated virus, in research lauric acid has shown to penetrate the layer of lipid coated viruses, therefore reducing viral loads. I am also using eucalyptus oil, tea tree oil, I use eucalyptus in a handkerchief and sort of sniff the esential oils, it helps deter particles entering your mucous membranes,(nostrils) especially around crwoded areas, I clean my household areas with tea tree oil, powerful antiseptic and antifungal. Supplements are an individual choice, based on knowledge and information, these are my 2 cents worth!
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I am not here to reason, I am here to create"
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redcloud
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Calendula,
Thanks for outlining your reasoning, and taking the time to educate me. I have stocked some oregano oil and elderberry tincture. The lauric acid is new to me, but your description of its action makes sense. What are you using as your "powerful antiseptic?" Thanks again. Red |
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calendula
Valued Member Joined: February 18 2006 Status: Offline Points: 345 |
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Red Cloud" Several antiseptics >sage, juniper berries, but one of the most powerful >Oil of Thyme. Hope this helps.
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I am not here to reason, I am here to create"
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oknut
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I purchased 2 jars of lauricidin as part of my preps. I've been experiencing flu-like symptoms and pneumonia since getting my flu shot in late Oct so I started taking a single dose of the lauricidin per day a week or so ago. It does seem to be helping me.
Either it's helping or whatever viral crud I contracted is finally winding down. I'm definately saving the other jar for the preps though. I have several containers of coconut oil that I'll use first on my garden variety virus. We did manage to get 2 rounds of Tamiflu per person but it sounds like they keep upping the necessary dosage so I'm glad there are some alternative treatments available. |
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redcloud
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Why are there so many threads here with people reporting that they either were not protected by this year's flu shot, or have actually been made sick by it?
I've read of experiences like yours, oknut, several times here. |
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redcloud
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And thanks, C, for the info.
Red |
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calendula
Valued Member Joined: February 18 2006 Status: Offline Points: 345 |
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that is why I have never had a flu shot before.......or ever in any near future, I just do not believe in them. ( Please it is my personal opinion, not to create a debate about whether it works or not)
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I am not here to reason, I am here to create"
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oknut
V.I.P. Member Joined: March 04 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 847 |
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Thanks - it's nice to finally have people other than my husband and a few close friends actually BELIEVE me.
I really was fine prior to the shot and sick within hours. Almost 6 months later and I'm still not back to normal. Can the government force vaccination on us in the event of a pandemic? I'm extremely leery of anymore unnecessary vaccinations. |
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calendula
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I am not sure about the mandatory vaccination, I doubt it. The only people the government force vaccination upon I believe is military personnel, ----once you sign for military duty you belong to them --whether like it or not they get gazillion of shots for just about eveything.
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I am not here to reason, I am here to create"
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birdflubuster
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Sambucol/elderberry extract is undoubtedly effective at combating the flu and bird flu should be no exception. However, due to how it increases cytokine storm it would be extremely foolish to take it more than two days into a bird flu infection. As a preventative measure, yes. When you're first feeling sick for 1-2 days, OK. When you have a high fever and/or trouble breathing -- NO!
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birdflubuster
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oil of oregano shows great promise as anti-viral agent including against bird flu:
I think mandatory vaccinations against bird flu would be a possibility,
but in U.S. only if pandemic gets really out of hand. Most likely, people vaccinated
against their will could be those where contagious bird flu breaks out (assuming it's detected right away, of course). WHO and CDC plan to
use same surround and isolate model deployed during Eradication of
smallpox. They sometimes had to use force then, too -- some people
in both India and Africa worshipped smallpox as a god/goddess and
believed that to get vaccinated would be call down the wrath of god
and give them smallpox instead of preventing it.
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Hello, does anyone have the recipe to make Homemade Sambucol that also has tried it? |
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redcloud
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According to SophiaZoe:
"I did 1/3 dried elderberries to 2/3 vodka (clear at least 80 proof). Soak a week, in a dark, cool place, shaking twice a day. After a week, I whisked them with my hand blender and let them soak two more weeks. Dark, cool place, shaken twice a day. At the end of three weeks I strained them into sterile canning jars and tucked them away. BTW: I only did 10 lbs, the other 10 I am holding in abeyance." |
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If all is not lost, where is it?
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crystal
Valued Member Joined: February 16 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 156 |
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I was in a health food/vitamin store today and I asked the person at the counter about colloidal silver as an antibiotic. He said he thought oregano is better as it has proven itself over time. He wasn't sure the silver has been used enough to test it's effectiveness. Any thoughts on this?
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peace
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oknut
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crystal,
I think they still put drops of a silver solution into the eyes of newborns and silver is used in many water purification systems. I make my own and have for years. I believe it's wonderful, but not a pancea like some claim. We plan to have plenty of colloidal silver solution on hand and oil of oregano along with some prescription meds and chinese herbal formulas. I'm prone to sinus problems and adding a little colloidal silver to my neti pot has worked wonders, time and again. I add a little to the dogs water dish each day and there is never a film in the bowl. |
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When making or using colloidal silver, never, never, never, repeat never, pour any down your drain if you have a septic tank.
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LotusLady
Experienced Member Joined: May 10 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Interestingly, Sambucus nigra, as it is called in homeopathy, is an influenza, cough, croup and whooping cough remedy--when the symptom picture fits. That is, difficulty breathing, suffocating feeling, face turns blue, marked perspiration. Worse at midnight to 3 a.m. Chill in hands and feet and warm body. Emotionally, someone would be very fretful, and frightful following the suffocative attacks.
Makes my chest tight just thinking about it.
There are many, many more homeopathic remedies for influenza.
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Lotus Lady
Classical homeopath |
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LotusLady
Experienced Member Joined: May 10 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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If you use the homeopathic version of this plant, if symptoms fit (see my previous posting), you don't have to worry about any of the interaction problems or other things that people have brought up as a concern.
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Lotus Lady
Classical homeopath |
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LotusLady
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Some of you are still experiencing residual effects from the flu shot. Not suprised. Homeopaths hear this all the time. Doctors don't because their patients don't tell them because they wouldn't believe them anyway.
I strongly suggest that if you are still having effects from the flu shot that you seek out a classical homeopath to get you back on track. We have lots of remedies that have a history of pulling people out of problems with vaccines--at least 50 of them.
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Lotus Lady
Classical homeopath |
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LotusLady
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There is never going to be enough vaccine to make everyone get the vaccine, so I wouldn't worry about it. This is one of their big concerns--even if they could produce a vaccine, they can't make enough.
That is why homeopathy is such a natural solution. Easy to make, produce and can be increased in quantity by the practitioner on the spot.
Problem is, you can't patent something that is so easily reproduced, thus there is no interest in it by the government. A kit that could cure thousands of people who get the flu is less than $100.00 to purchase.
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Lotus Lady
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crystal
Valued Member Joined: February 16 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 156 |
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oknut - thanks for the "silver" input. I will definetly get some. I've had a cough now for 3 week s that I can't get rid of and am now trying sambucal. I hate antibiotics but, unfortunatley, went on amoxyicilyn (sp?) last week for this cough that kept me up all night and came down with horrible hives- obviously allergic to the stuff. I still have the bad cough. Using oregano also. Thanks again.
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peace
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