Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
ImmunoSuppression |
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PJParent001@aol.com
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Posted: January 24 2006 at 5:41pm |
Bird Flu: The Untold Story
On today's Oprah Winfrey Show, Dr. Michael Osterholm, an infectious disease expert from the University of Minnesota pointed out: the 1918 Spanish flu killed healthy 20 to 40 year olds.; people with healthy immune systems. Pregnant women were especially affected.
So now I;m wondering if immuno suppressors might at all be helpful in combatting the onslaught of the H5N1 virus?
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woffman
Valued Member Joined: January 04 2006 Status: Offline Points: 31 |
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I am on an immuno suppressor. If I live thru the bird flu we will know the answer. Now all I have to do is get a years supply of my meds. That will be easier said then done.
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NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You had to listen to the whole explanation.... The reason so many pregnant women died is because their immune systems are toned down during pregnancy. Or at least that's the reason I have seen stated. On the flip side, some have hypothosized that maybe AIDS patients just might get a free pass on this (provided they aren't too far down the road of decline.) |
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CupcakeMom
Adviser Group Joined: January 20 2006 Status: Offline Points: 140 |
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Other infections besides H5N1 also are known to cause a cytokine storm in the lungs, and produce a syndrome called ARDS (Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome). It is still very hard to treat even with modern medicine, and the mortality rate is about 40% or so. Corticosteroids are virtually always tried but so far with so-so results. Steroids were given to at least some of the H5N1 patients who died (according to the WHO reports) without having much effect. The treatment is basically to give agents that may kill the organism, while ventilating the heck out of the person. In a pandemic, there honestly will be an almost laughable shortage of ventilators (sorry, but just the facts.) And other, more high tech treatments that could be used for ARDS will just be totally out of reach. I know I'm repeating myself too much, but the best way to get through the flu pandemic alive is not to get the flu to begin with. |
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Mom, I have read that ARDS has a modern day successful treatment of only about 10%. That's with everything we can throw at it. So your admonition is well given and short of that we need a way to prevent ARDS from developing. |
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AuntBones
Adviser Group Joined: December 09 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 274 |
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I also asked that question in a post before PJP.Was thinking about Methotrexate, to suppress immune system. I was on it for five years,and back on it again now. It would have to be used in a I.V. form.
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ARDS MORTALITY: (CupCakeMom was correct) http://www.ards.org/learnaboutards/whatisards/faq/faq3.html Survival and Mortality (death)? The mortality (death) rate estimates range from 30 percent to 70 percent. Recent data suggests that on average more than 40 percent die from ARDS. This data accounts for direct deaths resulting from not recovering from ARDS. The data does not account for deaths among survivors which may be causally related due to medical conditions arising or effected by the encounter with ARDS. Since ARDS was first described in 1967, the prognosis has improved slightly despite rapid advancements in medical science and technology. Statistical data reveals that approximately one half of who develop ARDS each year will survive in the United States and other countries which have well trained medical personnel and facilities for treating ARDS patients. Younger people and those who have fewer chronic health problems are more likely to recover. It is known that people with a milder form of ARDS tend to have a better chance of recovering than those with a more severe form of the illness. It is also known that the cause of a patient's ARDS helps predict that patient's chances for survival. For example, patients who develop ARDS due to sepsis usually do not do as well as patients whose ARDS is related to trauma. Finally, those patients who do survive after developing ARDS usually improve over several months with a return to normal or near normal lung function.
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ARDS: (CYTOKINE STORM) http://www.pulmonologychannel.com/ards/ Overview
Acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS) is sudden, life-threatening lung failure. ARDS inflames the alveoli, causing them to fill with liquid and collapse. Once the alveoli collapse, gas exchange ceases, and the body becomes starved of oxygen. ARDS requires treatment with mechanical ventilation or some other form of assisted breathing.
ARDS is a syndrome, not a specific disease. A variety of underlying conditions, from blood-borne infections to major trauma, can cause the characteristic inflammation and accumulation of fluid (edema) in the alveoli (see causes).
ARDS usually develops within 24 to 48 hours of the injury or illness. The duration and intensity of the condition can vary considerably from patient to patient. The mortality rate from ARDS ranges from 35?50%. In most cases, death results from underlying disease or from complications of mechanical ventilation. In patients who survive, normal lung function usually resumes within 6 to 12 months.
Incidence and Prevalence Pathophysiology Air moves through the respiratory system from the base of the trunk to the tips of the twigs. Clustered at the tips of the trachiobronchial twigs are tiny air sacs called alveoli, where inhaled oxygen passes into the blood stream. This is where ARDS occurs.
Injury to the alveoli The alveolar epithelial cells normally form a very tight barrier around the alveolar space, preventing any fluid from entering and disrupting gas exchange. In ARDS, the alveolar epithelial barrier breaks, allowing flooding of the alveolar space and making it difficult or impossible for oxygen to diffuse into the capillaries.
ARDS also can affect the "type II alveolar cells". Type II cells are thicker, square-shaped cells and the main function of these cells is to produce surfactant. Surfactant plays an essential role in preventing the alveoli from collapsing. The flooding through the broken type I cell barrier and the diminished production of surfactant by the type II cells collapse the alveoli.
Alveolar damage is increased by the activity of immune system cells (neutrophils) that rush to the site of injury, ironically, to help out. The activity of these cells and the inflammation they cause create a cascade of further injury that may extend into the capillaries as well.
Injury to the alveolar capillaries As a result, cells and fluid leak through the capillaries and into the alveolar spaces; the capillaries become blocked with cellular debris and fibrin (i.e., protein that makes up blood clots); surfactant production ceases; and the alveoli collapse. |
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Corn
Valued Member Joined: December 13 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1219 |
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Back to the aids statements, remember AIDS is also a virus, it too can mutate and is becoming resistant. We have never been able to outwit virusus in any successful or sustained manner. |
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CupcakeMom
Adviser Group Joined: January 20 2006 Status: Offline Points: 140 |
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Your posts are so helpful, S-Z, the background info helps everyone be able to put what's being discussed into perspective
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feelin' the luv! Thanks, it's nice not to be slapped around for a change!
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Proudest Monkey
Adviser Group Joined: January 17 2006 Status: Offline Points: 345 |
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Our immune systems are there for a reason! It does not seem like a logical medical treatment for the bird flu to suppress the immune system by taking drugs. I would never take any of those type of medications unless it was absolutely necessary. These drugs should only be used as a last resort. |
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