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PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
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Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

Your First Move

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Samoa View Drop Down
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    Posted: August 05 2006 at 8:44pm
If this thing reaches dire straights, where we see people rushing out to the stores to stock up because an announcement has been made that BR has hit America and is spreading, what would be your first move?  I mean, aside from keeping the kids indoors, the obvious stuff. 
In my case, we've got pretty much all the provisions we have room for, about 2 months.  Now we're working on non-essemtials like canned fruit and drink mix.  I've got an extra 90 gallons of diesel stinking up the engine compartment of our boat if we have to run and hide.

My "first move" would be to have a big hole dug out in front of our place, in a stretch of lawn that the neighborhood kids play on.  A Contractor friend of mine has agreed to send a back-hoe over to dig a "footing for a Basketball Goal" on short notice.  With the big hole dug, I plan to erect a sign next to it ' "Trespassers Will Be Shot & Buried Here".   A visual aid, if you will.

After all this prepping, you guys MUST have given this some thought; what would your first action be?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2006 at 9:05pm
    Id try to settle in......And panic about homeschooling the children.
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we  talked about this a few weeks ago. have not been able to come up with a plan yet. there are 4 of us, me,my mom, my uncle, butch. butch is my husband and he works and i'm disabled and take care of my mom and uncle. not sure if i would put butch in camper or house. don't know how much of the preps to give him, what if he needs something from in the house. would it be fair to put him out there alone or would it be a big risk having him in & out of the house with my family, my mom has asama, uncle has copd, almost bed ridden. both are in bad health already. so we are stilling trying to come up with something that works for all of us.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2006 at 10:18pm
IF it gets bad I wonder what happens to all of us who rent homes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2006 at 10:35pm
Hopefully, your landlords will recognize the fact that a lot of people aren't working/can't work because of the BF.
I don't rent. I own. But, i also have 4 properties that i rent out. If this thing gets as bad as folks think, i'd probably be able to get rent from 2 or 3 of the properties. 2 of them are paid in full by Rent Assistance/SS/HHS, the other one is a partial payment by HA, the last one, well the gentlemen works for the local transit authority as a mechanic, so i'm assuming he'd be able to pay his rent.
 
BUT, all this can change depending on the severity, and while we may not like it, as landlords, we'd have to understand that BF is ravaging the countryside, and not everyone can work. Question is, will our creditors understand this?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2006 at 12:18am
Get all our stuff together including our BOB (bug out box) try to buy some more ammo (we have a total of 4 rounds of .30-06Confused) grab gas and family members and head for the hills.
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Bill 100 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill 100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2006 at 6:33am
4 rounds of 30-06 David, that's not alot.
 
I would play it day by day, and monitor the news. I will be self contained for 6 months, I could bug out anytime during that 6 months, but hopfully I won't need to.

First fill up my water drums.

Board up windows (when needed).
Dig a hole in the yard for waste.
Depending on how long the electric is on, I could be running my generator.
 
Something I am going to have to do is get familiar with the radio news channels. In case cable is off, I don't use the radio that much.
A storm is coming !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2006 at 7:56am
Originally posted by Samoa Samoa wrote:



My "first move" would be to have a big hole dug out in front of our place, in a stretch of lawn that the neighborhood kids play on.  A Contractor friend of mine has agreed to send a back-hoe over to dig a "footing for a Basketball Goal" on short notice.  With the big hole dug, I plan to erect a sign next to it ' "Trespassers Will Be Shot & Buried Here".   A visual aid, if you will.

 
 
That's way to funny...Holy cow IOMAL...I could dig a hole cemetery my front yard it's so big...
 
That beats my quarantine signs.
 
When the BF hits United states...Life goes on as usually.  It's still a bird pandemic not human.    Kids will play dog and cat will run Hubby will work.
 
If it goes H2H I get the things on my last minute list including top off the gas in cars and top of propane tanks.   Then we all quarantine which means  house and our yard with no other contact.   If we lose the house so be it...I'd rather the house than each other....Love my kids and Husband and who would I argue with if something happens to hubby.
 
If other family member needs to come they will have to go thru a 12 day incupation period living in camper which is also stocked.  I figure they can last maybe 2 weeks...There not preparing...
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Legacy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2006 at 8:39am
It would have to be announced H2H here in the U.S. before I quarantine and call my husband home from work to stay. My preps are pretty well set, so I plan to enjoy my freedom until the last possible safe minute.
I do everything my Rice Crispies tell me to....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2006 at 8:48am
Samoa;
 
Now you have started a really interesting thread here. Here are my thoughts on the subject and some of the comments above.
 
If a person is serious about a pandemic (and they should be) possibility, they should be reasonably well prepared as you read this, regardless of every thing and what anybody says or believes. This basically means having a reasonable supply of "things" on hand to sustain them during a "shelter in place" situation. In my mind, this is a minimum of 8-12 weeks, just to be safe.
 
Bugging out, should only be a last extreme measure, because there will be no place to "bug out" to, unless you a fortunate to have a well stocked isolated cabin in the mountains somewhere, for example. Practically speaking, during a pandemic alert, every conceivable geographic place will face the same threatening situation simultaneously, no matter where you go. In fact, traveling may become extremely dangerous to ones health and welfare during a pandemic and should be avoided at all costs, for obvious safety reasons.
 
What should your first move be ? Having been reasonable prepared, every person should have a last minute list of those things, for whatever reason you haven't gotten yet (i.e. cost, storage space, etc) so that you can run out and get it quickly. Everyone in my opinion should already have 90% of what they need. If they don't - they are already in my view behind the power curve. They are not prepared. They are kidding themselves.
 
David K., having four rounds of 30-06 is not being prepared in my book. I to have a 30.06 and many other things. I have about 500 rounds for my 30.06, some it armor piercing. I can take out an engine block at 1/4-1/2 mile if need be, quite easily. That capability, in my mind, is part of  being prepared if things go south.
 
 
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My first move would be to grab my last minute list and run to walmart. Also go to the bank and withdraw a large sum of money in small bills. I have already started an emergency fund at home with 5 and 10 dollar bills. I add to that when I can.
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Bill 100 View Drop Down
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I believe "buging out" should be a last resort, and it would get down to trading one set of threats for another. But it could get down to deciding what the bigger set of threats are. There is alot we can not predict, and I like having the option, even if I don't use it. Plus I haven't prepared for a few days, it's more long term. What dose concern me is feral dogs and Black Bears. I haven't heard of any big cats in my area.
A storm is coming !
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Samoa, I thought about your sign "Trespassers Will Be Shot & Buried Here". Are you serious? Because it seems to me that is like telling someone they can't do something. We all know what happens then. Some loony will try to beat the odds.
 
I don't wish to do anything that will bring attention to my property. However, I may have a shotgun set up to go off if a window is raised. Unless my dogs die I don't think it'll go that far but I'm trying to think ahead picturing different scenarios. I've also been told that I will not be alone and there will be lot's of guns at different angles. So I'll just wing it.
I intend to make a run for more dog food, a big box of potatoes, and top off my gas. I never let the gas get under half a tank anymore.
Good luck.
 
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Samoa View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Samoa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 07 2006 at 1:24pm
Serious about the hole and the sign.  Firing at someone is a totally different matter.  I could only do that if we ourselves were threatened.  I am hoping that the hole would deter our neighbors from trying to beg from us.  You give to one, you gotta give to all, and then YOU starve, too.   
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Originally posted by TheWalkinDude TheWalkinDude wrote:

IF it gets bad I wonder what happens to all of us who rent homes.
Well certainly one possibility is that if there are a few human cases in the US, but not much evidence of it spreading fast, and most workplaces are still open, landlords will expect rent, and evict you if you are in a tiny minority that thinks it is too dangerous to go to work.
When Congress or state governments become convinced that there is a pandemic in this country, they might possibly place some restrictions on the circumstances in which landlords can evict the sick or people advised to stay home for health reasons.  They won't allow everyone to stay home who is a renter, you may have to move out. 
Dlugose RN AAS BA BS Cert. Biotechnology. Respiratory nurse
June 2013: public health nurse volunteer, Asia
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SAmoa, When you dig the hole make sure the bad guys can't hide behind the dirt pile  or in the hole and shoot at you.
 "The Art of War" Don't let a defensive position become and offensive one for the enemy.  I have signs printed that  read "ALL TRESSPASERS WILL BE SHOT ON SIGHT"

You guys can always shoot the landlord and blame someone else.  This was covered some time back--If it gets that bad how would he evict you? I think the sheriffs dept would be a little busy. here is Missouri it  takes 4 months to get rid of deadbeats- no landlord wants to evict a good tenent and will listen to reason.  I would suggest talking to the landlord now.

Where the heck do you live Bill-- "black bears and feral dogs"  Them there black bears make good steaks. We had a pack of dogs here a few yrs ago.  They all got lead poisoning from the neighbors and I. I ordered another pair of IR binocs today just because I think I need them.

David K- I have a little over 6,000 rounds of ammo- you better go buy some more.  Bill is 100% right about bugging out.  The only place you will get to is on the highway.  Look at any disaster. Roads jammed. You and 40 million other people will "head for the hills." Unless you have a secure cabin to go to and go early you better plan on staying put.
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My first move would be, to pour a glass of remy martin,call my sister,and put everything I've learned into action. roxy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2006 at 10:14pm
With you all saying that I need to get more ammo. The thing is that I can't. I'm still a minor and will be for a few more years. My dad pisses me off with his ignorance of so many things. A lot with prepping. He's like, "Oh! Having whatever is going to happen will happen." and when he said that it made me so angry...
My mom on the other hand is for getting more ammunition and such but she has no license.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2006 at 1:16pm
I would purchase fresh fruits and vegetables and water.
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Originally posted by oldasrocks oldasrocks wrote:

David K- I have a little over 6,000 rounds of ammo- you better go buy some more. 
 
 
Only 6,000, I've got that many in .308, .38 and 30.06.  Need to get on the plan dude Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill 100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2006 at 3:46pm
Originally posted by oldasrocks oldasrocks wrote:



Where the heck do you live Bill-- "black bears and feral dogs"  Them there black bears make good steaks. We had a pack of dogs here a few yrs ago.  They all got lead poisoning from the neighbors and I. I ordered another pair of IR binocs today just because I think I need them.
 
I live in Kentucky oldas, I think I will go to The Smoky Mountains if I bug out.
I worked as a meter reader for the electric company for about 2 weeks. I think everybody in america must have 3 dogs and most of them are mean. I was the only one that had not been bitten. I like dogs, and decided to keep it that way by quiting. I nearly got bit twice. I managed to get into my truck and close the door just in time. I read where there are 500 million dogs in america, I wonder how many will go feral when SHTF.
Tennnessee has had some Black Bear attacks, a little girl was killed and her mother was mauled. We are having more Black Bear attacks than usual. I guess I could be eating alot of Black Bear until I have cut down on their numbers. That is if I bug out. I have never had bear, my neighbor told me he likes bear better than deer.

U.S. Facing Feral-Dog Crisis

Maryann Mott
for National Geographic News

August 21, 2003

Packs of wild dogs roam America's city streets and backcountry roads. Lingering on the edge of domestication, they live in dilapidated buildings, old cars, and sewers. anywhere that will shelter them from summer's blistering heat or winter's bitter cold.

Some are abandoned pets; others were born on the streets. In order to survive, these social creatures form packs, scavenging garbage or killing livestock in teams

In rural communities, wild dogs attack livestock, angering farmers who commonly shoot them. A survey by the National Agricultural Statistics Service in 1999 found that feral dogs were partly responsible for killing cows, sheep, and goats worth about U.S. 37 million dollars.

Farms aren't the only place where these animals may be found. Low-income, high-crime neighborhoods in cities like Los Angeles, St. Louis, New York, Santa Fe, Pittsburgh, and Cleveland, are being overrun by tens of thousands of unwanted dogs, says Randy Grim, founder of Stray Rescue in St. Louis, a nonprofit organization that saves street dogs.

"The problem is only going to get worse," he said. "Animal control agencies and humane societies don't want to deal with it. It's just too overwhelming."

The problem started in the 1980s, Grim said, springing from a combination of increased dog fighting, dogs being bred for aggressiveness, and reduced animal control. Compounding the problem, he said, is that America's poorest neighborhoods do not have veterinarians or animal shelters.

In Detroit, packs of free-roaming dogs have posed such a danger that a postal service spokesman said they considered stopping mail delivery to some areas last year because carriers were "constantly being bitten" or injured eluding vicious animals.

In St. Louis, a 10-year-old boy was attacked and killed two years ago by a pack of stray dogs. Police Chief Ron Henderson told the St. Louis Post Dispatch: "They were feeding off this kid. I've seen over 1,500 bodies but I've never, never seen anything like this. Nobody has."

And it's not just a problem in the United States.it's worldwide.

According to some estimates, the current world population of domestic dogs may be as high as 500 million, of which a substantial, although unknown, proportion is free-roaming.

There have been news reports of feral dogs causing havoc in Australia, India, Russia, Taiwan, and Turkey.

In Greece, more than U.S. one million dollars is reportedly being spent on rounding up, sterilizing, and vaccinating thousands of street dogs in Athens before the 2004 Olympic games. Copyright: URL: Minor

The Rosebud Sioux Indian Reservation in South Dakota, where 23,000 people live, is one of the poorest counties in the nation.

The animal population on the reservation is at crisis levels. An estimated 4,000 dogs, covered with mange and ticks, roam the land and are sometimes so hungry they resort to cannibalizing other dogs.

The reservation does not have a veterinary hospital, and each week Indian health officials investigate an average of two dog bite incidents, often involving children.

"The animals need to be healthy in order to have a healthy community," said Karen Santos, Companion Animals Project Coordination for the International Fund for Animal Welfare (IFAW.)

In July, the nonprofit organization, along with other animal welfare groups, held a five-day clinic on the reservation, spaying and neutering 980 cats and dogs.

"Fixing the animals makes them less aggressive," explained Santos. This in turn, she added, will help reduce the extraordinarily high number of bites that occur on the reservation.

The clinic's staff also provided treatment for mange and vaccinations.

The program is the first time a humane approach to control the number of pets on the reservation has been carried out. A shoot-and-kill policy, she said, was previously in place.

Another clinic is being planned for May.

The IFAW also has sterilization programs in Turkey, Russia, the Indonesian island of Bali, and the Navajo Nation in Arizona.all aimed at reducing feral dog populations.

In St. Louis, Randy Grim, founder of Stray Rescue, is out on the streets everyday feeding 50 or more mutts.

If these wild dogs don't die of sheer starvation, he said, diseases such as parvovirus, heartworm, or intestinal parasites usually kill them. Their average life span is one to two years.

Many of the animals he sees were once "bait dogs".smaller, passive animals used to train fighting dogs. Great Dane puppies are commonly used, he said, and wire is twisted around their legs to hold them down, so they can't run while being mauled during training sessions.

"If they live, they are just discarded onto the streets," said Grim. The animals are recognizable by their missing limbs, and scars from the brutal attacks.

Since starting in 1991, Grim is credited with saving 5,000 feral dogs, all of which.through months of gentle, loving care.have been turned into house pets and adopted by new families. Some have even gone on to become therapy animals, bringing joy to people in hospitals and nursing homes.

A book on his rescue triumphs and struggles was published this year, entitled The Man Who Talks To Dogs (St. Martin's Press, Melinda Roth.)

In between interviews and speaking engagements, Grim has found time to start a new program, called Operation East Side, that offers free spaying and neutering and medical care for dogs in low-income areas of St. Louis. He hopes to make it a model program for other cities to follow.

"The involvement of all of us in animal welfare is essential to solving this problem," said Grim. "Through sterilization and rehabilitation, the feral dog problem can be contained but first we must acknowledge its existence."

A storm is coming !
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Associated Press Wire - Friday, April 14, 2006

6-year-old girl dies in Tenn. bear attack

BENTON, Tenn. - A bear attacked a family at a camp site in the Cherokee National Forest on Thursday, killing a 6-year-old girl and injuring her 2-year-old brother and mother, authorities said. The attack took place near a pool of water on Chilhowee Mountain, said Dan Hicks, spokesman for the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency. Witnesses described the bear picking up the boy in its mouth while the mother and other visitors tried to fend it off with sticks and rocks, Hicks said. The mother was injured before the bear was chased away.

The girl ran away during that attack, but was found dead a short time later with the bear nearby. A park ranger fired at least one shot at the bear before it bolted off. The woman and her son were flown by helicopter to Erlanger Medical Center in Chattanooga, where both were being treated for wounds consistent with a bear attack, Hicks said. Hospital officials did not immediately return calls for comment, but Hicks said the boy was listed in critical condition. The victims' names were not released. Forest Service employees, TWRA game agents and several hunters were searching for the bear in an area spanning several thousand acres. The 640,000-acre park runs along the southeastern Tennessee border with North Carolina, southwest of Great Smoky Mountains National Park.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bellabecky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2006 at 4:47pm
Originally posted by TheWalkinDude TheWalkinDude wrote:

IF it gets bad I wonder what happens to all of us who rent homes.

    
Walkin
If I owned a rental, I wouldn't be out & about dragging people out of the home during a pandemic. I don't see how banks/mortgage co (for homeowners) will be able to keep up with physical evictions either. Tossing sick out? Hopefully people will be busy surviving and not out harassing others.

I think people will pay what/when they can, and there won't be much others can do about it if they can't. There will probably be too much tumoil and chaos. I think renters will be okay during a pandemic.

I truly believe that people will strive to do what good they can versus reeking havoc in a time of monumental crisis. Of course I'm talking about "most" people, there are always the losers to contend with. But I imagine they will be challenged, to say the least.
"IN THE BEGINNING OF A CHANGE THE PATRIOT IS A SCARCE MAN, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, For then it costs nothing to be a patriot. Mark Twain, 1904
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2006 at 4:58pm
Originally posted by TheWalkinDude TheWalkinDude wrote:

IF it gets bad I wonder what happens to all of us who rent homes.
 
 
Dude,
 
I also rent since my Divorce.  My plan, and it IS a priority, Is to have enough  savings to pay the rent for at least 4 months.  I'll add to that if possible.  I realize that this plan may be beyond alot of folks, but even if it is only 2 months, giving a testy landlord  at least one month will get him off your back for a while anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2006 at 7:13pm
twoolf, Who is going to evict you? This has been covered many times in here. If the SHTF big time the sheriffs dept is going to have their hands full.  Banks and landlords will not be thinking of eviction but who is going to rent/buy my place after all these people die?

Just post a Quarantine sign on the door. Or "DEAD PEOPLE INSIDE'" or you can just drive up here to the chigger country and pitch you tent here.  This place is paid for.

don't feel bad I lost a paid for house in a divorce in 92.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2006 at 7:18pm
Bill, I honestly have eaten bear meat and its good. Be sure to cook it well done so you don't get worms though. Bullets take care of dogs quickly. As Isaid there was a pack of wild dogs here about 5 yrs ago and they were gone in a week. Shoot one and the rest disappear for a day or two then shoot another.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2006 at 7:33pm
Old,
 
I'm not really worried about eviction as my landlord has become a good friend, and I know that if I can at least cover his (small) mortgage payment I can relax.  BUT at some point I would have to catch up.  It would just be alot easier to reduce the impact  comming out of the event.   But, If you have room for a small motorhome, I've got a years worth of food and a ton of ammo.............
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2006 at 7:50pm
TWoolf, E mail me lets talk.

After all is said and done I think a lot of places will be able to be bought for little or nothing.  I think the main thing here is to focus on staying alive and worrying about where to live later. Who cares about the rent if you are planted?

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