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| Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
Three top meds to get??? |
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outsidethecamp 
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 Topic: Three top meds to get???Posted: March 07 2006 at 7:38pm |
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Okay, I've read a million posts about the most important meds to stock
up on in the event of a influenza pandemic.... Too many to do!!
Realistically, I'm afraid...  Considering all of the research all of you have done ....(Thank you!!!) what are the 3 top meds to contain in our supply cashe??? I have access to most as I work @ an animal hospital.  Need to know ASAP, as I'm afraid that supplies will run out soon.  Thanking you all in advance for your speedy reply... God help us all... Peggy in MN |
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Posted: March 07 2006 at 8:12pm |
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Hi OTC.... Good thread. I am very interested on hearing what others say.
My list of the most important is as follows: 1)Tamiflu (have 2 courses ) 2)Asthma inhalers (have 3) Prescribed for my asthmatic son. Anti inflammatory...goes straight to the lungs. Is a steroid. 3)Zithromax (have 2 courses) antibiotic And if all else fails, I will stop the inhalers and use 4)Prednisone - plan on stocking up on 3 or 4 courses. We have used it before when a doc prescribed it for a severe and possibly life threatening reaction my girls had to poison ivy (my girls when they were toddlers). We followed the dosing instructions and had no problems with it. Their eyes were swollen in one child totally shut, in the other only slits, the mouth in one was completely swelled shut, possibly compromising, in time, her airway. After two doses, they were at the carnival, spending my money. ANY DRUG CAN BE DANGEROUS, folks. Prednisone is no less or more so. Common antibiotics can cause your heart to beat irregularly and severe intestinal infections requiring hospitilization. I have seen what prednisone can do, and I choose it as my last resort. A personal choice, but one, having had it prescribed for myself and my children, used it as directed, and it eased MUCH pain and suffering. As I said, a personal choice, but one I PERSONALLY am confident in using. For Prednisone, Tamiflu, Zithromax or any drug one chooses to stockpile.........following the dosage instructions is the key. In prednisone, this is a must. |
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Posted: March 07 2006 at 8:30pm |
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Just what I have decided....not a recommendation. Tamiflu Amantadine Elderberry extract Curcumin w/pepirine Vit. A, B, E, C, D Supplements: CoQ10, NAC Tetracycline (sp?) I have other stuff but those are my top and the ones that I am "hanging my hat" on. |
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outsidethecamp
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Posted: March 07 2006 at 8:34pm |
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Thanks marzinn for your reply...
Yes, antibiodic remedies are truly a concern...  A few years ago, I went into a serious anaphylaxis shock (unconsconcious, ambulance, life support, etc. scared the sh$t out of my 2 daughters whom I was homeschooling, etc...,) following a routine penicillin regimine after a simple root canal. I never, ever experienced anything like it before even though I had rec'd . numerous penicillin shots for various things, in the past.  You never know. In making my preps., this really scares me. God help us all... Peggy in MN |
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Spoon
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Posted: March 07 2006 at 8:35pm |
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My three choices would be:
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It's not so much the apocalypse... but the credit card bills ;-)
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AnnE
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Posted: March 07 2006 at 8:35pm |
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Cercumin w/ peperine Ascorbic Acid, Vit C (Emergen-C) Chinese Herbal Meds. Belemcanda, Myrolea - B, Forsythia etc not necessairly in that order.
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Posted: March 07 2006 at 8:44pm |
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Similar incident here, OTC. Son took penicillin and developed bright red spots all over his body. Took him to the hospital, not really thinking it was a big deal, just a rash. WRONG> two emergency injections and a stern warning from the doc later - we knew he had a penicillin allergy. Doc told us, get him a medic alert bracelet.....and said if he ever takes penicillin again, we probably won't get to the hospital in time. It has made me vigilant though. I've recently started the family on curcumin and flavonoids. So I break off a tiny piece, give it to him, then sit at the kitchen table and stare at him for half an hour.... asking questions about breathing, dizziness or itching. And looking for spots! Cept for the ones on his face....
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outsidethecamp
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Posted: March 07 2006 at 9:13pm |
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Marzinn...
 Got a teenager myself...LOL...Big time!!!  |
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Posted: March 07 2006 at 9:25pm |
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OTC, LOL...wouldn't they be perturbed at us for laughing at their zits? At first, I was horrified when he got them....now I've gotten used to them and have even come to think they're kinda cute.... they rarely get big and sore, just usually red spots..... he looks like he has perpetual chicken pox. |
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mamabear
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Posted: March 07 2006 at 10:00pm |
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Can we purchase these on line? I get e-mails multiple times a day from "Canadian" pharmacies. Usually delete them but now I will take a second look. Any suggestions as I would like to have these available for my family of 4. Thanks much. |
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Posted: March 07 2006 at 10:24pm |
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bruss01
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Posted: March 07 2006 at 10:30pm |
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I personally believe tamiflu will be of little if any benefit. I have some just in case. I think Sambucol (elderberry extract) may cause more problems than it helps by aggravating cytokine response. I have some anyway. Personally, I'm putting my money on symptomatic relief and bed rest. The trick, I think, is to focus on symptoms that will truly make a difference. Guaifenessen to break up chest congestion and reduce opportunity for secondary infection. Immodium to stop diarreha, prevent dehydration. Antihistimine and ibuproffen to lessen inflamation. Ibuproffen also works as a fever reducer and helps lessen aches. We have three broad spectrum antibiotics on hand (amoxicillian, tetracycline and cephalexin). These keep well past their expiration dates if kept refrigerated. I plan to keep these around for secondary infections if need be. Also for ailments or injuries that we come down with while it is still "too hot" out to go to a doctor for treatment. We already have had the pneumovax, so I think we're safe from the most prominent bacterial threat, and I hope full well not to need them. Still, I have some, just in case. |
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outsidethecamp
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Posted: March 07 2006 at 11:29pm |
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Thank you all for the advice.
I will consider all that you have said. You're all the greatest & I hope, by God, to see you all here "on the other side".  I think I have to agree w/ Bruss01... In my (small, but, experimental reasoning.) I wish I only had everything he had "just in case". How in the Hell can we really know what to expect with this monster? It's hard. God help us all... Peggy in MN |
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Dualis
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Posted: March 08 2006 at 1:58am |
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I am on the side of Bruss01 I have recently bought many boxes of Guaifenessen containing products generic Pepto and both antihistimines and ibuproffen seems to me that this disease can be made less deadly if you can limit the body's overkill reaction with the lung flooding. Halfway through John Barry's "The Great Influenza" Great book!! |
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Posted: March 08 2006 at 3:38am |
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High dose pharmecutical grade Omega-3 supplements to dampen Cytokine storm. Elderberry extract (Sambucol) if you are over40-years. I will attempt to contact the company shortly and try to get some clarification about it's effect on the immune system. Some kind of antibiotic, I prefer Cipro. ------------- “CONCLUSIONS: Older subjects incorporate EPA(Omega 3) into plasma and MNC phospholipids more readily than do younger subjects.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi? cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16469992&quer y_ hl=3&itool=pubmed_docsum “Our data suggest that fish oil supplementation may represent a potentially beneficial nonpharmacologic intervention for asthmatic subjects with EIB.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi? cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16424411&quer y_ hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum CONCLUSIONS: “The present study found that, rather than producing a generalized immunosuppression, the administration of approximately 10 g of EPA/kg of body weight has more subtle effects in modulating the immune system. The observed effects of EPA(Omega-3 fish oil component) may explain some of its reported beneficial effects in inflammatory conditions without producing detrimental effects on antigen-specific immunosurveillance.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi? cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15850965&quer y_ hl=1&itool=pubmed_DocSum |
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Posted: March 08 2006 at 4:19am |
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I have 3 top 3's
Top 3 Rx's: Tamiflu Zithromax Albuterol Inhalers Top 3 OTC's Ibuprofen/Tylenol Mucinex Expertorant, Guaifenesin Immodium (used cautiously) Top 3 Herbals Lauricidin (monolaural) Sambucol Vitamins E, D, & C (okay 3, I cheated. ) |
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virusil
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Posted: March 08 2006 at 4:39am |
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monaulaurin(coconut oil) antihistamine |
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ignorance.
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htpp
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Posted: March 08 2006 at 4:43am |
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Does anyone have Gelsemium on their list, what was used in 1918 by homepathy doctors, and if not -- why?? |
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Posted: March 08 2006 at 4:49am |
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SOME CAVEATS TO MY LIST
First, these meds are appropriate for my uses. They may not be for you or your family. Second, I consider Sambucol risky, as it may increase the chances of a cytokine storm. I am (sadly) over 50, and my immune system has been affected by Lyme Disease, I figure the increase in T-Cell activity caused by sambucol would not be a problem for me. I would caution anyone under the age of 40 to think twice about it's use. Third, Zithromax is expensive, but it is part of my Lyme treatment. A cheaper alternative might be Doxycycline. Without lab testing, there is no way to know if you have a bacterial pneumonia, or whether the antibiotic you have will be effective. Taking an antibiotic blindly for a pneumonia is iffy at best. But better than nothing. Fourth, Immodium can slow the excretion of the virus from your system. I would reserve it's use only for those cases where I felt the loss of hydration thru diarrhea was excessive. Fifth, Albuterol is generally well tolerated, but can result in cardiac arythmias and even anaphylaxis. It should not be used by those on Beta-blockers. Sixth, I consider Lauricidin (monolaurin) to be a crap shoot. I have no idea if it will be effective. All evidence is annecdotal, but in vitro it has shown antibacterial and antiviral properties. Before using any med (even those prescribed by your doctor - they make mistakes, ya know ), research it and make sure it's right for you! If you have questions, talk to your doctor. Don't blindly assume he/she has considered all of your drug interactions. |
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Spoon
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Posted: March 08 2006 at 6:40am |
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It's not so much the apocalypse... but the credit card bills ;-)
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AnnE
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Posted: March 08 2006 at 6:56am |
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Ding Dongs!
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flowerchild
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Posted: March 08 2006 at 6:58am |
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Just a warning about antibiotics. No matter how many times in the past you have used one- at any time you can develop a severe allergy to one. I had been taking z-pac for off and on sinus infections. One week before Thanksgiving I developed a severe reaction- hives in my throat, eyelids, difficultly in breathing. It was horrible. The only antiobiotic my son can take is doxcycline. After allergy testing I found he is allergic to sulfas, everything. If you think you or your children could have a reaction I strongly reccommend seeing an allergist now for testing.
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Posted: March 08 2006 at 7:58am |
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If you consider using cannabis, you'll be interested in knowing, England or Canada, recently released a prescription med called, Sativex, an intransal cannabis compound that should be able to dampen Cytokine Storm. It is used to treat neuopathic pain in Multiple Sclerosis patients. The active ingredients are 50% THC & 50% CBD. The CBD component is what will exert or dampen the Cytokines - in theory , I still have research to do. Old fashion "brownies" using a primarily Indica product would work too, or better. A friend in England with M.S. has achieved some success with dampening his body's T-cell response using this strategy. I appreciate that this may not be politically correct. But then we are dealing with a product with an LD-50 of several several hundred pounds. My 2-cents. "On the evidence now available, the MS Society believes those who might benefit should be able to have treatment prescribed on the NHS. We also believe that further research into cannabis-derived medicines for MS should be vigorously pursued." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3247571.stm |
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Spoon
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Posted: March 08 2006 at 8:02am |
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Rick, Great info... thank you. I will have to look into this as well. |
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It's not so much the apocalypse... but the credit card bills ;-)
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calendula
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Posted: March 08 2006 at 8:06am |
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I am not here to reason, I am here to create"
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Posted: March 08 2006 at 9:00am |
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Spoon, shouldn't the twinkies come after the cannibis?
Just sayin', that's always been my experience. |
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Spoon
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Posted: March 08 2006 at 9:03am |
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Agreed.
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It's not so much the apocalypse... but the credit card bills ;-)
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Posted: March 08 2006 at 9:10am |
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epi pin I have to carry one all of the time,the only problem is they are only one use and they expire..if you have a severe allergy to something..pick up a couple of bottles of benadryl for children the clear kind with antehistamin(spelling)..lol..it is liquid and when you begin anaphylaxis shock it is the easiest thing in my opinion to take. ...I have about 10-15 hospital trips a year(ambulance bills nearly kill me) because I have so many food allergies and no not peanuts..onions is my worst and when they screw up on pizza..I,m a gooner... |
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Posted: March 08 2006 at 4:48pm |
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Fla. Medic, may I ask why you chose the Albuterol inhalers, which are bronchodilaters, over the flovent ones? I have a stockpile of both, but it is my personal belief that the flovent ones will be more beneficial in the event of a cytokine storm, as they are inhaled low dose steroids whose purpose is to do on a daily basis for asthmatics what I believe they will do, to some extent, in the case of a BF cytokine storm.... The bronchodilaters will ease breathing, but the flovent types will actually reduce the inflammation...i.e. calm the cytokines. THere was a study done on the inhaled steroids and cytokine inhibition done. For those interested, you could probably google it and find it. The thinking is that these inhaled steroids MAY help the cytokine storm from BF.....per the study. |
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Posted: March 08 2006 at 4:52pm |
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Marzinn, my reasoning was simple.
I had access to some free albuterol inhalers. But I'll check out the flovent study you mentioned. Screws up my list of 3, but what the hell.... Thanks for the tip.  |
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otskot
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Posted: March 08 2006 at 6:11pm |
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My TOP 3 (or so) RX are these:
1) Tamiflu 2) Augmentin (good overall antibiotic and can be used to treat pneumonia) and/or Erythromycin (another antibiotic -- good for ear, nose, throat issues) and/or Bactrim 3) Prednisolone: for treatment of ARDS/Cytokine Storm see FluWiki for a lot of discussions on using it. For OTC: Ibuprofen, Dipenhydramine (allergies and sleep), Sudafed |
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Mississipp Mama
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Posted: March 08 2006 at 8:04pm |
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Does anyone know wehter it is possible to get prescription medicaion on line from a good pharmacy with out a prescription. I am having trouble convincing my doctor to give me more that a 30 day supply. He doesn' think any thing will come of the bird flu. Please any help would be appreciated. My insurance will only pay for one month at a time. I am willing to pay to haave them filled. Are there any Canadian companies that anyone know about? Thank all of you so much for your help.
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Posted: March 08 2006 at 8:08pm |
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Glad I mentioned it then, medic. I wasn't going to as I didn't want you and the others to think I was being a smart aleck. My son has asthma and recently got prescribed both types of inhalers. At that time the doc explained to us that these two types were very different. The albuterol(not a steroid), what our doc says is a rescue inhaler, is to be used to dilate the airway in an emergency severe attack. The flovent (inhaled steroid) is to be used daily and is a preventitive inhaler, it's anti inflammatory properties staving off an asthma attack before it even starts. BOTH will be of use during a BF event. Though the rescue inhaler WILL NOT dampen the cytokines or prevent them from overreacting...thus if the cytokines are flooding your lungs, the albuterol will NOT be able to dilate your bronchi enough to be of much help. You will need an inhaled steroid for that, or something even stronger - prednisone. SO, if you could take an inhaled steroid, or prednisone.....they have BOTH been proven to inhibit those darn cytokines, and if you got them dampened to where you were only a bit short of breath, the albuterol would come in handy. BUT ONLY IF THOSE CYTOKINES ARE KEPT DOWN. Hence, the steroids. I have great faith in prednisone. I have seen it work miracles for me and my daughters when they were little tots. I plan on dragging my family through poison ivy all summer just to get prescribed prednisone....at which point we will NOT use it, and burn and itch and blister.......to stockpile it for a time when it may do more than save us the suffering we endure when we get poision ivy........a time when it may save us not from pain and itching, but from the cytokines. |
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Posted: March 10 2006 at 6:36pm |
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tonseck
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Posted: March 10 2006 at 8:00pm |
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The WHO website for Avian Flu is now recommending that Tamiflu not be
generally prescribed until an actual pandemic has started. The
reason is the same as for antibiotic restrictions. With
widespread use, the strain being treated is most often not killed off
completely, leaving the resistant microorganisms (virus for BF) to
reproduce and mutate. The greatest fear at this point is that
H5N1 and the other influenza strains (there are many that are just as
deadly) will begin to mutate rapidly as treatment options are tried and
fail. When the BF becomes stronger, Tamiflu, which mitigates
symptoms but isn't a cure, will become less and less effective.
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Don't be afraid to be afraid; it keeps you on your toes.
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Sunset
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Posted: March 11 2006 at 9:46am |
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TAMIFLU>>>>>>>>>>WHY DO I HAVE AN AD FOR TAMIFLU ON THE FRIST PAGE OF THE H5N1 AVIAN FLU FORUM........IS THIS WHO IS BEHIND THIS FORUM? SUNSET
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Posted: March 11 2006 at 11:46am |
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Sunset. I was thinking the same. Someone has to be paying the bills. note. Just saw other thread w/SZ reply-k |
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mamabear
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Posted: March 11 2006 at 12:02pm |
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stormriderfla - http://www.avianflutalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3330&PN= 1
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Posted: March 11 2006 at 12:44pm |
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MB thx-k
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comrade
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Posted: March 11 2006 at 4:06pm |
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My drugs of choice 1.) Tamiflu (2 pks per person - prevention) 2.) Relenza Inhaler ( 1 per person - treatment) 3.) Z-Pak and Augmentin (secondary treatment)(14days per person) 4.) Medrol Dose Pack (1 pk per person) 5.) Albuterol Inhaler (1 per person)
My thoughts: If the power is out you will be unable to use a nebulizer. If you are vomiting you will be unable to take Tamiflu. Bacterial Pneumonia may occur secondarily. The cascade that leads to pulmonary hemorrhage may be decreased with a very short course steroids. All this to try to allow additional time to mount an appropriate immune response. Even more important...... don't forget the food and water! That's my stash.
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Poison Ivy causes some people to have a severe immune reaction, as we did. It (prednisone) was quick and powerful, and saved us much torment. 
That's why we stocked up on Zithro.........it is the only antibiotic he can take. 
Spoon wrote:
