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Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

correlation discovered from corona virus updates

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    Posted: March 29 2020 at 6:30pm

We know that warmer climates do not help much with the spread of the corona virus, but might it help with recovery of people that have already become sick? Upon looking through the corona virus update numbers for the deaths and recoveries of each of the countries a couple of weeks back, I noticed that many of the warmer climate countries seemed to be doing much better than many of the countries with colder climates. So I started looking up the average temperatures for march of each of the countries by typing "march weather *country*" into bing search engine which quickly gives the average march temperatures for the capital city of that country at the top of the list of results. I then grouped the countries together that lie within the same temperature range and added the total number of deaths together for each range and the total number of recoveries together for each range.

To find the average number of deaths to the total number of outcomes so far, I simply used the equation: deaths / (deaths plus recoveries). It should be noted, however, that while deaths may be added to the updates immediately, the recoveries may lag behind another week to be sure of a full recovery, so the ratio of deaths to total outcomes will appear greater than they actually are due to the lag of recoveries. With this in mind, a quick blind averaging of all of the countries at that time worked out to 40% deaths to total outcomes at temperatures below 70 degrees F, 17% at 70-80 degrees F, and fell to just 11% over 80 degrees F. That is a very large difference of about three to four times lesser death rate at higher temperatures. I would like to implore others to work through the new numbers from the updates and verify these results as well as the data is readily available.

I spent the last week trying to determine which countries have the best health care as that may also be a very large factor as well and indeed, many of the countries that are doing well according to the recovery rates in the updates are at the top of the list for health care as well. However, roughly half of the countries that are listed as having top health care are not doing well at all in the updates, mostly the colder countries, unless those countries are simply waiting longer before listing their recoveries in order to ensure that their patients have had a full and successful recovery, perhaps with up to a two or three week lag if that is the case.

I wasn't sure whether to take the countries with better health care off the list altogether, since many of them are doing very well, having some of the best ratios of all of the countries in the updates so far, but many of them are doing very poorly also, so I decided to leave them for now and just truncate the results within each range of temperatures. Using this last friday's updates, I originally divided the countries up into 6 temperature ranges so that each includes about 14 countries. Since some countries have large numbers and some small, I ran the ratios for each country with greater than 10 outcomes individually this time and added 1 to the number of deaths and 10 to the number of recoveries so that countries with an unreliably small number of outcomes might be placed closer to the expect results while barely affecting countries with a larger number of outcomes, so the equation for the new results becomes (deaths + 1) / (deaths + recoveries + 11).

I then truncated the two countries that are doing the best and the two countries that are doing the worst within each temperature range which would hopefully drop most countries that are doing well due to health care, and then I found the mean average of the countries that remain within each range by simply adding their individual ratios together and dividing by the number of countries. Originally I had 6 ranges, but one of them was rather large, ranging from the 60's to mid 70's and there appears to be a sudden drop within that range and I wanted to better see where that drop occurs, so I broke that range up into two smaller ranges and only trancated one country from the top and bottom each for those two ranges.

Many countries are only now becoming ill and one would need to wait til there are more outcomes to get the most accurate results, but by then thousands of people will have died and this may help so I want to go ahead and get it out there. My thinking is that most people stay indoors after becoming ill where the climate is controlled. However, if the climate outside is colder, then in order to save on energy bills, most people would probably keep the inside of their house cooler as well, perhaps as low as 60 degress F, while those with decent climates at the moment would tend to keep their house about the same, and those with hot climates might tend to keep their house at a warm temperature from 75 to 80 degrees F perhaps. So the results for the temperature differences could be as little as a 20 degree difference, those below "room temperature" and those above.

Since heat does not affect the spread of the virus, then heat most likely doesn't kill it, but perhaps it helps to keep it from fully settling into the lungs which may allow people to continue to breathe long enough to recover. This is just my best guess however as I am not a doctor so I definitely want to state that. I'm just a numbers guy that happened to notice a correlation in the numbers so far. I would also want to warn people reading this about cranking the heat up too high in their homes in hopes that it will help them with recovery. You wouldn't want to die from heat stroke before you have even had the chance to recover in the first place. These results could just be a trick of small numbers which might change later on as the numbers grow so that there is more data to work from, although so far there does seem to be a large correlation with recovery and heat, but the data suggests that room temperature to just barely over room temperature will work just fine.

Here are the new results for deaths per total outcomes using the numbers from the corona virus updates on 3/27/2020 :

below 45 degrees F, 29.95%
45 - 52 degrees F , 27.15%
53 - 59 degrees F , 30.43%
60 - 67 degrees F , 35.61%
68 - 75 degrees F , 10.95%
76 - 83 degrees F , 13.41%
above 83 degrees F, 13.51%

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sheep Lady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2020 at 7:07pm

Thank you for all your hard work and data sharing.  We will certainly be watching to see if this holds true.  A very interesting postulation.  There is hope here.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2020 at 10:46pm

Interesting analysis, thank you! 

Warmer countries (ex. tropics) tend to have younger populations than cooler mid-latitude countries, and age is a very strong predictor for mortality with SARS-CoV2.  We are still trying to figure that out, it may have to do with damage to the lung tissue from years of smoking/pollution etc. 

I really don't expect temperature nor climate to impact this bug much.  It seemed to spread just fine in Singapore, which is close to the equator, and Latin America is now starting to wind up with infections. 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeColo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2020 at 6:30am

I really think fever might be truly helpful for patients with coronavirus, even if it evolved in bats, which spike high fevers when flying, then cool off to ambient temperature when sleeping. The virus might remain dormant or less active, and/or remain in body cells during a bat's fever, coming out or becoming more active when it goes down, and might do the same in humans, so keeping the patient's fever going might keep the viral activity lower.

Of particular interest would be whether a decrease in fever is followed by a turn for the worse, whether moderate or rapid.

If this even works at all, how high a fever could be sustained for several days, or even two weeks, when weighed against the risk of death from coronavirus? Really pushing the limits to just below serious organ damage, if necessary. Of course, less would be much preferred, if it works well. I've never heard of anyone having a high fever for that length of time.

Ventilator air as hot as can be (but not dry) without causing tissue damage might help, which might simulate in the lungs an even higher fever that would otherwise be extremely dangerous or fatal if occurring in the whole body.

Maybe even more "out there," might be a "hotsuit" to heat up the torso, and especially the lungs, as much as possible, while simultaneously cooling the head and neck only as much as required to protect the brain, and rinsing with, but not swallowing, cool water. I really don't know how much temperature differential could be achieved this way, because cooler blood returning from the head might cool the torso, defeating the whole purpose.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nanook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2020 at 9:13pm

Warmer countries likely have more sunshine hours thus increasing the populations vitamin D.  This in turn, I believe, increases your immune system and likely helps fight this virus thus decreasing mortality.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2020 at 5:22am

You could be on to something there Nanook.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote grav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2020 at 9:23am

Here are the newest results taken from the updates on saturday morning 4/4/2020. The numbers are high enough now that I just ran them "as is" this time using the straight-forward equation (deaths) / (deaths + recoveries) for all countries listed that have at least 30 outcomes and did not truncate any countries within the temperature ranges. I did, however, exclude 5 of the larger countries that contain more than a couple of the temperature ranges within their borders during the month of march, which are USA, chile, argentina, brazil, and china.

temperature ------- ratio -- # of countries

below 45 degrees F, 26.16% , 12
45 - 52 degrees F , 29.71% , 16
53 - 59 degrees F , 37.71% , 11
60 - 67 degrees F , 33.35% , 10
68 - 75 degrees F , 11.48% , 6
76 - 83 degrees F , 16.91% , 14
above 83 degrees F, 18.72% , 16

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote g0ldl10n Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2020 at 9:37am

grav, that is quite interesting, so thank you for taking the time to research this. 

Now, I am not what you would call an enthusiast when it comes to diseases like many of you are here, I just found this forum due to current situation we're in and thought I'd join, so excuse me if my questions are simple/obvious.

Do you have an opinion as to why these numbers show what they show? 

To me it would seem if one catches a virus whether you're in a cold or warm climate it shouldn't have really any impact on the severity of the infection, but your numbers (at least at this time) seem to indicate the contrary.

Do you know (or anyone reading this) of any other virus that has been confirmed to be less lethal during the infection due to temperature? And if so, are there theories as to why?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Taxman100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2020 at 10:11am

From what i have heard it has to do with the air and how moist the upper respiratory tract is.  With warmer drier air the virus is less likely to adhere to the cells in the nose and throat.  This is postulated why flu illness spreads less in the warmer months. But with everyone susceptible to this virus the R value would still be above 1 so eventually people would be infected it will just take longer to get the exponential growth going.     

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote grav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2020 at 1:29pm

Originally posted by g0ldl10n g0ldl10n wrote:

Do you have an opinion as to why these numbers show what they show? 

To me it would seem if one catches a virus whether you're in a cold or warm climate it shouldn't have really any impact on the severity of the infection, but your numbers (at least at this time) seem to indicate the contrary.

Do you know (or anyone reading this) of any other virus that has been confirmed to be less lethal during the infection due to temperature? And if so, are there theories as to why?

These are the only numbers that I have that are large enough to run using the updates for this particular corona virus. It has nothing to do with how likely one might catch the virus in a warmer or colder climate or how it spreads, though, but only with how likely one might be to recover after they are already sick. The only theory I have as to why these numbers appear to show that a warmer climate might help one to recover is that the deaths occur by respiratory failure so perhaps breathing warmer air helps to keep the virus from settling into the lungs. I am not a doctor, however, so I cannot say that is the case, but can only refer to what the numbers seem to indicate.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote grav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2020 at 2:17pm

Here is something interesting. I ran the numbers for the countries with at least 50 outcomes each, excluding the 5 countries I listed before. Of those 69 countries that remained I divided them into 8 temperature ranges with 8 or 9 countries within each one. I then truncated the countries with the top 2 and the bottom 2 ratios within each temperature range and averaged the remaining mid-ratio countries together. The number of countries averaged together within each range is the number of countries shown in the graph minus 4. Here are the results.

temperature ------ ratio -- # of countries

below 43 degrees F, 10.33% , 8
43 - 48 degrees F , 27.46% , 9
49 - 53 degrees F , 28.58% , 9
54 - 61 degrees F , 41.74% , 8
62 - 71 degrees F , 18.20% , 9
72 - 80 degrees F , 15.80% , 8
81 - 85 degrees F , 03.47% , 9
above 85 degrees F, 13.40% , 9

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote grav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2020 at 4:47pm

Originally posted by Nanook Nanook wrote:

Warmer countries likely have more sunshine hours thus increasing the populations vitamin D.  This in turn, I believe, increases your immune system and likely helps fight this virus thus decreasing mortality.

Thank you nanook, I have started looking into this idea. Except in extreme cold or hot regions, climate temperature in general shouldn't have much affect on our body temperature including our lungs since we have built in regulators. Looking up vitamin D on Wiki, it says "The major natural source of the vitamin is synthesis of cholecalciferol in the lower layers of skin epidermis through a chemical reaction that is dependent on sun exposure (specifically UVB radiation)."

Here's what Wiki says about how vitamin D affects the immune system in terms of infectious diseases. "In general, vitamin D functions to activate the innate and dampen the adaptive immune systems. Deficiency has been linked to increased risk or severity of viral infections, including HIV. Low levels of vitamin D appear to be a risk factor for tuberculosis, and historically it was used as a treatment. Supplementation slightly decreases the risk of acute respiratory tract infections and the exacerbation of asthma."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sheep Lady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2020 at 5:03pm

Originally posted by grav grav wrote:

Here are the newest results taken from the updates on saturday morning 4/4/2020. The numbers are high enough now that I just ran them "as is" this time using the straight-forward equation (deaths) / (deaths + recoveries) for all countries listed that have at least 30 outcomes and did not truncate any countries within the temperature ranges. I did, however, exclude 5 of the larger countries that contain more than a couple of the temperature ranges within their borders during the month of march, which are USA, chile, argentina, brazil, and china.

temperature ------- ratio -- # of countries

below 45 degrees F, 26.16% , 12
45 - 52 degrees F , 29.71% , 16
53 - 59 degrees F , 37.71% , 11
60 - 67 degrees F , 33.35% , 10
68 - 75 degrees F , 11.48% , 6
76 - 83 degrees F , 16.91% , 14
above 83 degrees F, 18.72% , 16

This seems to correlate with what was reported when Wuhan first became an item; that is, it thrives in near the end range of either hot or cold, not so much mid range temps. 

 Thank you for your ongoing stats!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote grav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2020 at 5:31pm

The website 'prevention' says "The risk of developing pneumonia is more than 2.5 times greater in people with the lowest vitamin D levels in their blood, researchers at the University of Eastern Finland found. Previous research suggests that vitamin D deficiency weakens the immune system, which increases your risk of contracting illnesses such as respiratory infections."

The website 'healthline' says "One of vitamin D's most important roles is keeping your immune system strong so you're able to fight off viruses and bacteria that cause illness. It directly interacts with the cells that are responsible for fighting infection. If you often become sick, especially with colds or the flu, low vitamin D levels may be a contributing factor. Several large observational studies have shown a link between a deficiency and respiratory tract infections like colds, bronchitis and pneumonia. A number of studies have found that taking vitamin D supplements at a dosage of up to 4,000 IU daily may reduce your risk of respiratory tract infections."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FluMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2020 at 8:15pm

Well I can tell you since I started taking 2,000IU of D I have not gotten sick with colds, flu, sinus infections and I work with little kids, germ pockets!!! I started taking D because my endocrinologist said I was low in D.  Before I took D I was sick twice a year with sinus infections and or colds. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote grav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2020 at 7:48pm

Well, I ran the numbers for this weekend and the correlation still remains the same as we have been seeing so far. The correlation really pops out if we truncate a couple of countries in each temperature range that are doing the worst, falling to single digit percentages above about 78 degrees F. I also wanted to see how vitamin D affects these ratios with the next best source to UVB in sunlight being fish, so I found a list of countries which gives the fish consumption per person per year at the Helgi library and ran the numbers for ranges of fish consumption in the same way as with the temperatures before.

Different types of fish provide different amounts of vitamin D but I figured there would be at least some correlation with fish in general since vitamin D helps with the immune system and fighting off viral and bacterial infections, especially in the respiratory tract. Also, many of the countries that are doing the best with moderate to low temperatures happen to also be at the top in the world for fishing and fish consumption. So imagine my surprise when I could find no correlation with fish consumption whatsoever. None. I thought there would be at least something just for the vitamin D factor which should help tremendously with surviving virus infections, but all ranges for fish consumption were about the same with the ratios for countries with barely any fish consumption at all running the same as that for countries with one to two servings per day per person on average. It's looking again like just plain heat is what is what may be helping the most with the best correlation by far.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2020 at 2:56am

With the exception of one species of salmon (sockeye), fish is not a brilliant source of D.  Mushrooms are better, if they have a 'suntan'.  Two portions of mushroom (one big one if you are a pig like me) will deliver a week's D requirement.  If they are 'white' forget it, they have been grown commercially without UV and are worthless.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2020 at 2:27pm

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

With the exception of one species of salmon (sockeye), fish is not a brilliant source of D.  Mushrooms are better, if they have a 'suntan'.  Two portions of mushroom (one big one if you are a pig like me) will deliver a week's D requirement.  If they are 'white' forget it, they have been grown commercially without UV and are worthless.

We're eating loads of mushrooms at the moment. It's Autumn and they're popping up all over our cow paddocks. And they're brown, so that's good information you shared. Thanks.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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