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‘Unknown pneumonia’ deadlier than coronavirus

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ksc View Drop Down
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    Posted: July 09 2020 at 12:50pm

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3092563/chinese-embassy-warns-deadly-unknown-pneumonia-kazakhstan 

The Chinese embassy in Kazakhstan has warned of a deadly “unknown pneumonia” after the former Soviet republic reported a spike in pneumonia cases since June.

“The death rate of this disease is much higher than the novel coronavirus. The country’s health departments are conducting comparative research into the pneumonia virus, but have yet to identify the virus,” the embassy said in a warning to Chinese citizens in the country

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2020 at 2:10pm

Oh BOTHER!  I do wish I could swear here.

How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiminNM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2020 at 2:27pm

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

Oh BOTHER!  I do wish I could swear here.



Same!


Are any citizen journalists in China still posting? This seems... incomplete.

This article is on Twitter, but didn't see any more details. I'll keep an eye out for them. Because 2020 has already jumped the ******* shark.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tabitha111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2020 at 2:41pm

I searched for a pub-med release on this, but no luck. Maybe tomorrow? I too would love to know more details....

'A man who does not think and plan long ahead will find trouble right at his door.'
--Confucius

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tabitha111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2020 at 2:43pm


Wanted to add that there is some speculation that it is Covid 19 but has mutated into a more deadly virus....

'A man who does not think and plan long ahead will find trouble right at his door.'
--Confucius

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2020 at 3:02pm

This is the most in-depth I could find:


Chinese Embassy warns of unknown pneumonia deadlier than COVID-19 in Kazakhstan

Source: Global Times Published: 2020/7/9 21:33:40


Photo taken on April 19, 2020 shows a ward of a makeshift hospital for COVID-19 patients in Nur-Sultan, Kazakhstan. Kazakhstan has built a makeshift hospital to treat COVID-19 patients in 13 days in Nur-Sultan, the developer BI Group announced on Tuesday. (BI Group/Handout via Xinhua)


The Chinese Embassy in Kazakhstan on Thursday warned Chinese citizens living in the country of a local pneumonia of unknown cause, which has a "much higher" fatality rate than COVID-19.

The unknown pneumonia in Kazakhstan caused 1,772 deaths in the first six months of the year, including 628 people in June alone, including Chinese citizens, the embassy said in a statement on its WeChat platform on Thursday.

"The fatality rate of the disease is much higher than COVID-19," read the embassy's statement.

Organizations including Kazakhstan's health department are studying the "virus of this pneumonia", the embassy said.

There hasn't been any indication whether this disease is related to the COVID-19.

Some Chinese experts said that measures should be taken to prevent the pneumonia from spreading into China. Kazakhstan borders Northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region.

The embassy is reminding Chinese citizens in Kazakhstan to raise their awareness of measures to prevent the spread of the virus.

The embassy quoted local media as saying that since mid-June, almost 500 people have been infected with the pneumonia in three regions of Kazakhstan.

Kazakhstan's healthcare minister said on Wednesday that the number of patients sickened by the pneumonia is two to three times more than those who have been infected with COVID-19, Kazakh news agency Kazinform reported.

The minister said that it plans to publish accurate tallies of confirmed cases as early as next week, noting that while it's not necessary to publish the number, the public needs to know the true situation, Kazinform reported.

According to official data, the number of pneumonia cases is 2.2 times greater this June than it was in 2019 when there were 1,700 cases, said the English version of the Kazinform report, which lacked details.

Kazakhstan has reported 51,059 confirmed cases of COVID-19, including 264 deaths as of press time, according to Johns Hopkins University's coronavirus resource center.

"The COVID-19 situation in Kazakhstan is under control," reads a statement sent by an official from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Kazakhstan to the Global Times on Thursday.

The ministry's statement didn't respond to questions about the Chinese embassy's warning of the unknown pneumonia.

Over 1.6 million people have been tested for COVID-19 in Kazakhstan. Currently, the country is carrying out almost 90,000 tests per one million population (almost 14,000 tests per day), which is more than France, Germany, Canada and many other countries. There are over 50,000 cases of COVID-19 currently registered in Kazakhstan, including more than 25,000 with symptoms, and more than 23,000 who are asymptomatic, reads the statement.

Kazakhstan has required medical and economic resources to win the fight against the spread of the novel coronavirus and return to normalcy, it says.

The unknown pneumonia has stirred heated discussions among Chinese netizens who remain anxious about the coronavirus pandemic.

As of press time, more than 370 million netizens read posts with the hashtag "pneumonia of unknown cause reported in Kazakhstan" on China's Sina Weibo. "What has happened to earth in 2020? First, the COVID-19 and now another pneumonia? All we want for the year is to live safely," wrote a netizen.

Some were concerned the unknown pneumonia may affect Northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, which shares the border with Kazakhstan.

In January, Kazakhstan suspended all cross-border buses with China, and cancelled flights between the countries on February 3.


Source:   https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1194082.shtml


Is this the much-speculated-upon 'second wave'?

How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2020 at 4:08pm





Technophobe welcome back missed you, 


I think we up sh.t creek without a paddle......lol

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote roni3470 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2020 at 4:17pm

I'm sorry but this is EXACTLY what happened in 1918 in the second wave. Pneumonia my ass.  I truly believe this to be a mutated conorovirus....anyone with me on this??

NOW is the Season to Know

that Everything you Do

is Sacred
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tabitha111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2020 at 7:27pm

Lots of medtwitter commenting that it has to be connected to Covid.



'A man who does not think and plan long ahead will find trouble right at his door.'
--Confucius

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roni3470 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2020 at 7:41pm

Hey Tabitha...I want to read these...can you help me find where people are saying stuff?  you can email me sites at rockinroni2

at yahoo.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2020 at 10:31pm

Figures must be off the charts, literally.  

Kazakhstan is reporting a Case Fatality Rate of 0.5% of Corvid19 - For China to say their figures for deaths are very high there must be many many pneumonia deaths outside of those reported as Corvid19.  For comparison the official data for China has their CFR 10 times higher than Kazakhstan's rate!

So far of the Central Asian countries, it looks as if Kazakhstan has been the most open in reporting. The worst in the area is Turkmenistan which is claiming to have totally avoided the virus, a claim that is as believable as North Korea's similar claim.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ksc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2020 at 12:51am

Kazakhstan denies Chinese reports of pneumonia deadlier than coronavirus

https://www.ynetnews.com/article/BkMDyKHJv

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2020 at 2:15am

Originally posted by "BBC Live News" "BBC Live News" wrote:

]The pneumonia caused 1,772 deaths in the first six months of the year, including 628 people in June alone, the [Chinese] embassy said, using previously published Kazakh government figures."The fatality rate of the disease is much higher than Covid-19," it said.

The embassy said Kazakh authorities were trying to identify the cause, although it has previously been classed as "regular" pneumonia.

And some doctors in the country believe it is in fact Covid-19, which faulty tests have failed to recognise.

Kazakhstan has confirmed more than 54,000 cases of Covid-19, with 264 deaths.


If all those deaths were added together and if they were all for Covid19 then the Case Fatality rate would be 3.8%. That is still below China's 5.5% rate (and the USA rate of 4.3%].    So the statement "The fatality rate of the disease is much higher than Covid-19," seems to be a false statement, (unless the Chinese have lied about their own statistics).

The Chinese Embassy may well have picked up on underreporting (something China is itself famous for), but the spin they have put on it seems to be extreme.  This might be to deflect attention as a WHO team is heading to China.  



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tabitha111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2020 at 8:50am

Medtwitter- is just what it sounds like...I follow a bunch of ID (infectious disease) docters (and many others who are not, but are somehow connected) on twitter..here is a quick list I put together from what is showing on my screen today. From here you can find many more... I am an information junkie...twitter feed is all ID or Weather (another hobby of mine)




@DrDenaGrayson

@DFisman

@jeremyfaust

@Brief_19

@linseymarr

@HislopMD

@PergamIC

@BallouxFrancois

@drannehuang

@ashishkjha

@meganranney

@GermHunterMD

@BradSpellberg

@ASlavitt

@domremaro

@JenniferNuzzo

@DrEricDing

@jmugele

@charlesornstein

@AbraarKaran

@bschapiroMD

@kakape

@EdTubb

@VirusWhisperer

@AmeshAA

@Crof

@FluTrackers

@florian_krammer

@KrutikaKuppalli

@mugecevik

 

@KindrachukJason

 

@MackayIM

 

@angie_rasmussen

 

@BogochIsaac

 

@BhadeliaMD

@DrJudyStone

@vitaincerta

@bencowling88

@onisillos

@EricTopol










·









·

·

·


















'A man who does not think and plan long ahead will find trouble right at his door.'
--Confucius

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote roni3470 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2020 at 10:15am

Hey thanks Tab!  I added all these folks to my twitter feed!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2020 at 1:12pm

Originally posted by roni3470 roni3470 wrote:

I'm sorry but this is EXACTLY what happened in 1918 in the second wave. Pneumonia my ass.  I truly believe this to be a mutated conorovirus....anyone with me on this??

Yes I am. Too coincidental.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tabitha111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2020 at 2:07pm

At last from Pub-Med
*******

Viewing the media reports (of which there are many), the only

source of information about this pneumonia "more lethal than COVID-19"

is the Chinese Embassy in Kazakhstan. All other reports available for

review mention that the announcement of this "outbreak" was made by

the Chinese Embassy.


Interestingly there have been multiple media reports over the past few

days mentioning that Kazakhstan doesn't have enough test kits for

SARS-CoV-2 PCR testing, as well as the need for PPE, respirators, and

medications. An unfortunately common occurrence when countries are

overwhelmed by rapidly increasing cases of COVID-19 so that hospital

beds are scarce, ICU beds even scarcer, and mortality increases due to

the pandemic virus and due to an overwhelmed medical system in the

country, in severely affected areas.


A media report mentioned that Russia will be sending a shipment of

identified needs (as mentioned above) including PCR testing kits. What

is not mentioned in any media reports I've seen is information on the

testing supplies currently used in Kazakhstan, including the test's

sensitivity and specificity to have some idea of possible range of

false negative results which might explain a proportion of the above

mentioned increase in pneumonia cases. Another possibility is an

increase in coinfections with other respiratory pathogens including

viral and bacterial pathogens which may result in increased mortality

from the coinfection.


More information on this event from knowledgeable sources would be

greatly appreciated.


Atyrau borders on the Caspian Sea with the province bordering on the

Russian Federation. Aktobe borders with Atyrau to its west and

Shymkent is in the south central of Kazakhstan, bordering with

Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan to its south. All countries with significant

SARS-CoV-2 transmission ongoing. 

'A man who does not think and plan long ahead will find trouble right at his door.'
--Confucius

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roni3470 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2020 at 7:47am

I think the problem is that everyone wants to stay quiet about outbreaks so they are not blamed for it like China has already been blamed.  If they would just provide all the information, we could actually prepare correctly!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2020 at 8:16am

Originally posted by KiwiMum KiwiMum wrote:

Originally posted by roni3470 roni3470 wrote:

I'm sorry but this is EXACTLY what happened in 1918 in the second wave. Pneumonia my ass.  I truly believe this to be a mutated conorovirus....anyone with me on this??

Yes I am. Too coincidental.


I was discussing this with my niece just last night.  It mutated when it migrated to Europe.  I think it's mutating again now that it is in Eastern Europe/Central Asia.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2020 at 11:49am

It will probably mutate several times before the second wave, let alone before it's all over.  If it ever is.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roni3470 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2020 at 12:19pm

SO I think if these stories are true then it has possibly mutated but how can we find out more info?  Do we have any people from China on here or does anyone have contacts over there?  I really think we should be digging all we can into this because it has so many similarities.  could be nothing but could be something!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2020 at 2:45pm






For years I have been telling people to 

"get ready"

 always written off as a bit loony....as most of us have experienced.

Thing is now everybody (apart from Chump) is  Hyper aware of viruses.......

So let's deal with this one ,1st and foremost......,

In dealing with this CORRECTLY,

we mitigate any possible 2nd,3rd wave.......

Let's just focus on Covid19......

just my opinion....😉


Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tabitha111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2020 at 6:57am


Kazakhstan: Follow-up

Date: Fri 10 Jul 2020

Source: Live Science [edited]

https://www.livescience.com/kazakhstan-unknown-pneumonia-covid-19.html


A Chinese embassy has issued a warning about a deadly "unknown

pneumonia" circulating in Kazakhstan, but authorities outside of China

say these cases are still likely COVID-19.


On Thursday ([9 Jul 2020]), officials with the embassy in Kazakhstan

issued an alert to residents that the unidentified pneumonia had

killed more than 1700 people in Kazakhstan, including Chinese

citizens, according to CNN. "The death rate of this disease is much

higher than the novel coronavirus," the alert said, according to

Newsweek.


However, authorities in Kazakhstan denied such an outbreak, saying

that "this information does not correspond to reality," CNN reported.

A statement from Kazakhstan's health ministry said that there were

"viral pneumonias of unspecified etiology" in the country. However,

the statement said that the classification of "unspecified" was used

for cases of COVID-19 that had been diagnosed based on symptoms but

not confirmed with laboratory testing.


In a press briefing for the World Health Organization (WHO) on Friday

([10 Jul 2020]), Dr. Michael Ryan, executive director of the WHO

Health Emergencies Program, said that the news of this outbreak "is

certainly on our radar," and that the organization is working with

authorities in Kazakhstan to investigate it.


These cases are likely COVID-19, given that there has been a big surge

in COVID-19 in the country recently, with more than 10 000 such cases

diagnosed there in the past week, Ryan said. WHO is now looking at the

quality of testing conducted and whether some of these unspecified

pneumonia cases are due to false-negative test results for COVID-19,

he said.


Ryan noted that clusters of atypical pneumonia can occur "anywhere in

the world at any time," and can be due to a number of causes,

including Legionnaires' disease (severe pneumonia caused by bacteria

in the _Legionella_ genus) or influenza.


"The upward trajectory of COVID-19 cases in the country would suggest

that many of these cases are in fact undiagnosed cases of COVID-19,"

Ryan said. But, he added "we keep an open mind."


[Byline: Rachael Rettner]


--

Communicated by:

ProMED-mail



[My thoughts exactly. We had a similar "unexplained pneumonia" with

high mortality report from Kano, Nigeria in the early stages of the

initial surge of COVID-19 that was investigated by the Nigeria CDC and

found to be due to COVID-19 (see Undiagnosed deaths - Nigeria (KN):

http://promedmail.org/post/20200609.7446939 and Undiagnosed deaths

- Nigeria (02): (KN) RFI responses, relation to COVID-19

http://promedmail.org/post/20200612.7463389

We will continue to

monitor findings, but I strongly suspect this is due to COVID-19.]



'A man who does not think and plan long ahead will find trouble right at his door.'
--Confucius

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