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Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

UK experiment july 19

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Dutch Josh View Drop Down
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    Posted: July 08 2021 at 6:26am

[url]https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)01589-0/fulltext[/url] or https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)01589-0/fulltext 

Mass infection is not an option: we must do more to protect our young

As the third wave of the pandemic takes hold across England, the UK Government plans to further re-open the nation. Implicit in this decision is the acceptance that infections will surge, but that this does not matter because vaccines have “broken the link between infection and mortality”. On July 19, 2021—branded as Freedom Day—almost all restrictions are set to end. We believe this decision is dangerous and premature.
An end to the pandemic through population immunity requires enough of the population to be immune to prevent exponential growth of SARS-CoV-2. Population immunity is unlikely to be achieved without much higher levels of vaccination than can be reasonably expected by July 19, 2021. Proportionate mitigations will be needed to avoid hundreds of thousands of new infections, until many more are vaccinated. Nevertheless, the UK Government's intention to ease restrictions from July 19, 2021, means that immunity will be achieved by vaccination for some people but by natural infection for others (predominantly the young). The UK Health Secretary has stated that daily cases could reach 100 000 per day over the summer months of 2021. The link between infection and death might have been weakened, but it has not been broken, and infection can still cause substantial morbidity in both acute and long-term illness. We have previously pointed to the dangers of relying on immunity by natural infection, and we have five main concerns with the UK Government's plan to lift all restrictions at this stage of the pandemic.
-First, unmitigated transmission will disproportionately affect unvaccinated children and young people who have already suffered greatly. Official UK Government data show that as of July 4, 2021, 51% of the total UK population have been fully vaccinated and 68% have been partially vaccinated. Even assuming that approximately 20% of unvaccinated people are protected by previous SARS-CoV-2 infection, this still leaves more than 17 million people with no protection against COVID-19. Given this, and the high transmissibility of the SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant, exponential growth will probably continue until millions more people are infected, leaving hundreds of thousands of people with long-term illness and disability. This strategy risks creating a generation left with chronic health problems and disability, the personal and economic impacts of which might be felt for decades to come.
-Second, high rates of transmission in schools and in children will lead to significant educational disruption, a problem not addressed by abandoning isolation of exposed children (which is done on the basis of imperfect daily rapid tests). The root cause of educational disruption is transmission, not isolation. Strict mitigations in schools alongside measures to keep community transmission low and eventual vaccination of children will ensure children can remain in schools safely.   This is all the more important for clinically and socially vulnerable children. Allowing transmission to continue over the summer will create a reservoir of infection, which will probably accelerate spread when schools and universities re-open in autumn.
-Third, preliminary modelling data suggest the government's strategy provides fertile ground for the emergence of vaccine-resistant variants. This would place all at risk, including those already vaccinated, within the UK and globally. While vaccines can be updated, this requires time and resources, leaving many exposed in the interim. Spread of potentially more transmissible escape variants would disproportionately affect the most disadvantaged in our country and other countries with poor access to vaccines.
-Fourth, this strategy will have a significant impact on health services and exhausted health-care staff who have not yet recovered from previous infection waves. The link between cases and hospital admissions has not been broken, and rising case numbers will inevitably lead to increased hospital admissions, applying further pressure at a time when millions of people are waiting for medical procedures and routine care.
-Fifth, as deprived communities are more exposed to and more at risk from COVID-19, these policies will continue to disproportionately affect the most vulnerable and marginalised, deepening inequalities.
In light of these grave risks, and given that vaccination offers the prospect of quickly reaching the same goal of population immunity without incurring them, we consider any strategy that tolerates high levels of infection to be both unethical and illogical. The UK Government must reconsider its current strategy and take urgent steps to protect the public, including children. We believe the government is embarking on a dangerous and unethical experiment, and we call on it to pause plans to abandon mitigations on July 19, 2021.
Instead, the government should delay complete re-opening until everyone, including adolescents, have been offered vaccination and uptake is high, and until mitigation measures, especially adequate ventilation (through investment in CO2 monitors and air filtration devices) and spacing (eg, by reducing class sizes), are in place in schools. Until then, public health measures must include those called for by WHO (universal mask wearing in indoor spaces, even for those vaccinated), the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE), the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (ventilation and air filtration), and Independent SAGE (effective border quarantine; test, trace isolate, and support). This will ensure that everyone is protected and make it much less likely that we will need further restrictions or lockdowns in the autumn.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2021 at 6:32am

DJ-While the UK is reopening holiday travel to Portugal and Spain, France is advising its citizens to avoid those countries. 

If the UK/BoJo government goes on with july 19 reopening it-again-may see ALL borders with EU closed. (Proberbly only essential travel/quarantine...).

In Italy family members of those who died during the first-Bergamo-wave are going to court because they claim the Italian government did not do enough to protect its citizens. 

Maybe legal steps may force the UK/BoJo government to limit the damage they are doing to their citizens. Allowing the spread of dangerous/deadly variants may not combine with basic human rights...

Public support for ANY government rule may erode if governments are unwilling to protect basic public healthcare. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ME163 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2021 at 9:00pm

I think that TPTB have made the decision to let the people die.  The drive to normalize everything is an effort create the taxes to pay for the bills to keep the lights on civilization.   Civilizations have survived these pandemics. I think TPTB have made a call that they would rather see mass death than have economic collapse.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2021 at 9:50pm

Originally posted by ME163 ME163 wrote:

I think TPTB have made a call that they would rather see mass death than have economic collapse.  


And an economic collapse could lead to mass deaths, especially if hospitals cannot afford to keep people, and if/or the food supply chain breaks down.


ps. I am with Josh on this that I would have liked to see more UK action in shutting down early (like we saw here in Finland...which has been criticised for having some of the strongest travel restrictions in Europe).


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2021 at 5:10am

No arguments from me.  I have been certain of that since about March 2020, at least where the British government is concerned.  I am pretty sure of several others too.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2021 at 1:12am

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYTyi2pFXxk&t=346s[/url] or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYTyi2pFXxk&t=346s debate on UK "liberation day"plan-letter Lancet on july 19 UK reopening risks. 

Sad the BBC may not even mention it...Here in NL the "Red Team" has been warning for NL "government" ignoring the Delta variant that now is exploding in lots of superspreader events...The Dutch "government" seems to be-de facto-going for "natural herd immunity" even if that will kill tens of thousends in NL...crazy !

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2021 at 8:38am

[url]https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57809691[/url] or https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57809691 ;

England will move to the final stage of easing Covid restrictions on 19 July, the health secretary has confirmed.

It means almost all legal restrictions on social contact will be removed.

Sajid Javid told the Commons cases could reach 100,000 a day later in the summer but he did not believe this would put "unsustainable pressure on the NHS".

Vaccinations had created a "protective wall", which would mean "we can withstand a summer wave" he added.

Mr Javid said now was the right time to get the nation "closer to normal life".

"To those who say why take this step now, I say if not now when?" he said, adding that a further delay would risk pushing the virus towards winter when it would have an advantage.


DJ UK hospitals allready are in crisis-in part also due to destroying for political reasons PUBLIC health...In the ruling class anything PUBLIC should be private. Reopening per july 19 will make Delta variant explode even further then the UK-Euro-2020 insanity allready did. 

Cases will explode, long covid will get widespread-without any care...deaths will explode...just a matter of time. 

Maybe the only good thing is maybe people will send Bojo and his clowns to where they belong-long care mental institute...

Denial of the problem makes matters much worse...it will be again the poor that suffer...Vaccinations are still not on a level they can protect enough...what is wrong with some rules to at least try to limit the spread...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2021 at 9:14am

I could not agree more.

Our hospital admissions and deaths are low at present, but our health workers are exhausted.  Underfunded for years, they recovered from the yearly Winter flu crisis with time off in Summer.  For two years running now, that has not been an option and they are only human.  People get tired.  Also, unprotected children are vulnerable to long covid, many past covid patients join that burgeoning throng and, as the vaccines only effectively help people avoid active disease, the Delta variant and Lamda variant are spreading apace, able to develop new strains.

I could call this a bit short-sighted if I were given to massive understatements.



I might add that privatisation is generally a good thing, but not when applied to monopolies or vital services.  Every rule has exceptions and this is a big one.  

If antibiotics treat bacterial infections, it does not automatically follow that they treat viral ones; if I can swim in water, it does not mean I can fly in air and the very privatisation that drops the prices of some services increases the costs of others when the buyer loses bargaining power.  The NHS is being privatised by incremental inches and each inch reduces its effectiveness.  

The NHS used to be the envy of the world; I don't want it to end up like America's horror story.  (Sorry America, your health care is a joke - and I'm not laughing.)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2021 at 11:09am

It certainly is, Techno, and no one over here is laughing either.  But a helluva lot of people are raking in $, and others avert their gazes and lie their @$$e$ off, while the rest either hide their heads in the sand, suffer, or both.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2021 at 1:21pm

Techno-with all respect & friendship, 

Privatization may be the basic problem in this crisis...If the outcome of privatization is 0,1% claiming to "own everything" democracy has become democrazy...

If $, €, count more then votes, if all public functions are in private-for profit-hands what happens to public interest ? Pandemics happen to public interest ! Climate collapse happens to public interest !

History is a pendulum swinging all sides...we had to much public services, now we went to far in the other direction. It will be corrected...

[url]https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1461286/Boris-Johnson-coronavirus-July-19-freedom-day-variants-covid-news-vn[/url] or https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1461286/Boris-Johnson-coronavirus-July-19-freedom-day-variants-covid-news-vn ; Council Chair of the BMA, Dr Chaand NagPaul issued a warning to Boris Johnson and the Government over their coronavirus July 19 plan. While speaking on LBC, Dr Nagpaul argued that allowing Covid to spread significantly increased the risk of new variants. He noted that this would cause global concern and could result in further issues for other nations.

-

"It really does not make sense.

"There is no comparison with any other nation in the world of deciding to remove all restrictions at a time of soaring rates."

Beyond the dangers that face the UK, Dr NagPaul highlighted why this could spell disaster for the international community as well.

DJ Reopening-like NL in fact allready did, the UK is planning to do per july 19, will be opening pandora's box. What we do know is allready not good, it is what we do not know yet that worries me...Today-sunday testing-almpst 35,000 new UK cases....

Another UK item;

[url]https://www.express.co.uk/news/weather/1461680/UK-heatwave-forecast-weather-July-summer-BBC-weather-hot-temperatures-met-office-maps[/url] or https://www.express.co.uk/news/weather/1461680/UK-heatwave-forecast-weather-July-summer-BBC-weather-hot-temperatures-met-office-maps 

Parts of North America allready-again-suffering from extreme heat...Scandinavia did see extreme temperatures, parts of Siberia...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2021 at 4:53pm

I agree with you Josh, that was my point in this case.  Privatisation of the NHS is disasterous!  It was a great thing for the phone service, but it bu993%3d the railways.  It has to be appropriate to the system in question and the NHS is decidedly NOT a good candidate.

Sadly, you are right, money is the driving factor in these changes and the NHS is being slowly chipped away.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2021 at 5:20pm

I think it's more to do with advancements in medical practicies, people's expectations of survival.......

=Costing more than is put in........

Take care all 😷😉

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2021 at 5:27pm

The Uk seems to have forgotten that when the NHS was set up it was only to treat about 16 medical conditions such as broken limbs etc. Now the NHS has expanded to treat all sorts of things that shouldn't be included. A perfect example is breast reduction. After all, most women seeking breast reduction are chronically overweight, and if they lost the excess weight, they would lose their breast tissue too but instead they want a surgical option. Gender reassignment is another example. Extraordinarily expensive and perhaps something that should be pursued privately since it's not life threatening. 

If the NHS were to revert to it's initial criteria, the problem would be solved.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2021 at 3:07am

Emergency summit/press conference [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihLq-eMtNJI[/url] or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihLq-eMtNJI lots of info on the Bojo&Co criminal decision for "reopening" per july 19. 

[url]https://www.bma.org.uk/bma-media-centre/thousands-of-uk-doctors-say-face-coverings-and-social-distancing-should-remain-mandatory-bma-survey-reveals[/url] or https://www.bma.org.uk/bma-media-centre/thousands-of-uk-doctors-say-face-coverings-and-social-distancing-should-remain-mandatory-bma-survey-reveals ;

Thousands of doctors in the UK say they want to see face coverings remain mandatory, with 90% of those taking part in a survey telling the BMA that masks should continue to be worn on public transport. 

The results of the Association’s latest Viewpoint survey come ahead of the Government’s scheduled announcement this evening, where the Prime Minister is expected to confirm that all Covid-19 restrictions will be lifted on July 19, including the compulsory wearing of face coverings.

Almost 2,500 doctors1 across the UK responded to the latest BMA survey, and as well as 90% wanting to see masks remaining mandatory on public transport, a further 2,176 or 91% of doctors believe masks should continue to be worn in healthcare settings - where practical - and another 2,061 or 86% say the same for social care settings. What’s more, 78% think face coverings should continue to be worn in shops, followed by a further 68% for hospitality and 66% for workplaces, like offices.2

Support for sticking with social distancing is also high among respondents, with 78% believing that it should remain mandatory in healthcare settings and 75% agreeing for social care settings. On public transport, 75% think social distancing should continue.3

Dr Chaand Nagpaul, BMA council chair, said: “If the Prime Minister does not continue to make mask wearing mandatory, we will see a sustained and even steeper rise in infection rates across the summer and beyond which will significantly impact on our NHS and result in more serious illness and hospitalisation – simply ‘expecting’ people to wear one is not good enough and sends out a confusing mixed message to the public.

“We have soaring infection rates – the highest in Europe – which are already impacting the NHS, and we’ve seen the number of people in hospital beds and on ventilators double in the last month alone. Even a modest increase in the number of Covid-related hospitalisations places immense pressure on our overstretched health service trying to cope with a backlog of more than 5.3 million patients waiting for treatment. Allowing infections to escalate by removing all restrictions will mean more patients on waiting lists will suffer and wait longer for treatment. We have already seen at least one hospital cancelling treatment for cancer patients and other routine procedures and more will follow. This is before we even consider the impact of Long Covid.

“Doctors are clear in their desire to protect the public’s health and our NHS by proven measures to control spread of this deadly virus. They want to see the legal requirement for wearing of face coverings retained not just in enclosed public spaces but also for patients and visitors and staff in hospitals and GP surgeries as well as social care settings.4

“Doctors also want continued social distancing in waiting rooms and measures to ensure adequate ventilation in health care buildings. The BMA believes that July 19 is too early for all Covid-19 restrictions to be lifted, and that this should occur when the majority of the population have been double-vaccinated in the weeks to come. This clear message echoed by thousands of UK doctors goes to show just how seriously the Westminster Government must consider its next steps later today.”

A consultant in acute medicine told the BMA: “We are already seeing significant numbers of the general public not wearing masks in hospitals and it terrifies us that this will become even more normal after 19th July. When our own fully vaccinated staff are becoming infected with the disease, the idea that mask wearing by the general public will become obsolete fills us all with dread. 

“Things are heating up in our hospital and I cannot see how we are going to cope come winter. We are now admitting around six Covid patients daily, some of whom are in their twenties and previously healthy. I know that colleagues in the maternity unit have also had to admit six pregnant women with Covid to ICU. We’ve converted one of the elderly wards back into a Covid ward and even our small side rooms are being used again for seriously ill patients.”

DJ Reopening now in the UK will destroy what is left from UK public healthcare. Basicly hospital already can not deal with demand. Three Euro-2020 matches in London the last week-each with over 60,000 visitors-in itself allready is a disaster. 

The UK government is pushing towards resistent variants-with complete immune escape-able to reinfect people over and over again. The Delta variant now spreading shows itself to be uncontrolable in China, Australia...lifting all restrictions for a false "freedom"-claim is beyond criminal !

The effects of out-of-control variant spread will not be limited to the UK (or NL where the government made-more or less the same wrong choice !) but may effect and worsen the global pandemic for years to come !

I can only hope other countries close their borders for people from those countries in wich governments fail this extreme...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2021 at 4:41am

Speaking to KiwiMum's comment on breast reduction:  This is a topic I know all too well.  I have been both thin and thick.  Yes, when you are thinner your breast size decreases some. But some of us, even when we are thin, do not lose enough breast tissue to offset health complications.  This is definitely not a cosmetic-only issue.  My issue is related to pain in both upper and lower back and neck as well as vertigo.  I also now have developed arthrosis in my right hip due in large part to breast size, as well as working on my feet most of my life.

Yes, breast size is associated with weight.  But there is a genetic component as well.  I have a pictures of a family reunion taken around the turn of the 20th century.  Whether thick or thin, Every. Woman There. had large mammaries.  When I was young and thin, mine were the size of large grapefruits.  Now they're the size of cantaloupes.  I did gain some weight during Covid, most of which I have lost since the first of the year.  But it's alot slower going than it was before change of life.  I have alot more pain now, and pain slows down weight loss. Eight years ago, I used to work on my feet eight hours, hustling rings around people 1/3-1/2 my age in the crappy air conditioning, walk 1/2 mile home, and then hop on the treadmill 1/2 hour, and maybe some weights or yoga.  I didn't suddenly just get lazy.  But menopause hits some of us like a ton of bricks.  We do the best we can. 

For some of us it's not so simple as "go lose some weight".  Eight years ago, I lost 55 pounds and went from an obese BMI to a high normal one.  I was less than 20 pounds away from my goal weight and a normal BMI when I was given Prednisone for a health issue.  I was already in perimenopause.  The steroid screwed my hormones up and my energy level plummeted.  For the last seven years, until I was furloughed due to Covid last year, it was all I could do to get through the days at work, still working rings around the whippersnappers. Exercise?  Forget it!  And the doctors b¡tch at you for gaining weight, but when you tell them about your menopause symptoms, if your hormone tests aren't abnormal enough they have no help for you. Mine offered me Zoloft as an off-label use for menopause.  I said, "What menopause symptoms does Zoloft address?"  Hot flashes and night sweats.  "Hot flashes and night sweats are not my problem.  Low energy and weight gain are my problem.  Whaddaya got for that?"  Shrug.  Nada.  Zip.  Zilch.  Yeah, right.  You're all over my case but really, you have no help for me.  I'm all on my own.  Well, who didn't know that?!

Sorry for the rant.  But as you can tell, that is a topic that still puts me in a high state of p¡$$-off, eight years later.  And the bottom line is that I'm a woman who has worked hard all her life and hasn't asked a damn thing from anyone.  But if someone wanted to pay for a reduction for me, I'd be right there at the speed of light.  Hell, amputate the daggone things entirely -- I won't miss 'em.  But here in the States, cost of a breast reduction surgery, after anesthesia, etc., is $25,000+, assuming an overnight hospital stay.  It ain't happenin' if you don't have insurance.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2021 at 12:33pm

As a teenager I was shot with an air rifle in my right breast.  The trauma caused it to grow excessively.  I was a G cup already! ('and not from obesity back then)  I have not had breast reduction as it is offered to those who are caused physical or psychological problems by the size and I am too self-confident for it to depress me.  But I could see how this would cause problems for some people.  

If it ever becomes uncomfortable enough to bother me (it can be hard to turn over in bed!) it is nice to think I could have it reduced.  I would never think to deny that to anyone else either.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2021 at 3:01pm

Techno and ViQueen, I do know that there are exceptions to the rule and what I was talking about were the cases caused by obesity. I have an old school friend who lives in the UK and is morbidly obese, probably over twice the weight she should be. She wants a breast reduction on the NHS but has proven that when she loses weight her breasts shrink significantly. She once lost 10 stone and with it, lost her breasts. But then she put it all back on again. 

What's the answer?? I don't  know. The problem, as with every single problem in the Western world, comes down to supply and demand. The demand on the NHS is outstripping supply and therefore the service is creaking at the seams and something has to give. At least it is publicly funded. I have no idea how the Americans cope without insurance, it must be a nightmare.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2021 at 9:54pm

A short reaction on the above discussion;

I did not foresee the discussion on reopenings in the middle of a pandemic in the UK would take this turn.

But big breasts can be a very serious health issue...I was looking at liposuction-suction of some of the fat-could lower both costs and risks [url]https://cocorubyplasticsurgery.com.au/blog/liposuction-breast-reduction-scarless/[/url] or https://cocorubyplasticsurgery.com.au/blog/liposuction-breast-reduction-scarless/ and as with many things "it is more complex"...

But since big breasts can bring big health costs it should (and often is) be in a basic healthinsurance. The reason why the UK NHS-one of the best healthcare systems in the world !!!!-is in problems is political. Again "conservertavis/neo-liberals etc"hate everything public...

In my view the main reason this pandemic became a pandemic is political, ideological...(and totally stupid !). In a lot of western countries the basic idea is the less government the better...in a crisis that idea is deadly !

UK yesterdays numbers; #5 for new cases worldwide with 36,660 new cases. The number of 50 deaths is the highest in months...puts the uK at #22 on the global worldometer list of highest number of deaths. Trends UK cases +29%, deaths now +56% !!!! 128 last week 200 this week !

Hal Turner has been producing a lot of non-sense on this pandemic, however [url]https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/en/news-page/world/uk-politician-admits-on-live-television-that-the-more-covid-vaccines-people-have-had-the-more-likely-they-are-to-get-and-transmit-covid[/url] or https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/en/news-page/world/uk-politician-admits-on-live-television-that-the-more-covid-vaccines-people-have-had-the-more-likely-they-are-to-get-and-transmit-covid may have some basic reality...

Vaccination protects much better against severe symptoms then against spread...It may even increase a/pre symptomatic spread. That was allready a major problem before large scale vaccination (CDC-59% a/pre symptomatic spread) and I did see some claims spread without symptoms may go up to 80(+?)%....

That you do not get ill does NOT mean you do not get infected ! Certainly the idea of no masks, social distance etc. will increase infections ! Contact tracing often was hard-asymptomatic spread via vaccinated people makes it even harder...

The idea of reopening in the middle of a pandemic is getting more insane by the day ! 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2021 at 10:02pm

It appears that the UK government is hoping to infect as many people as possible during the summer months because if it stays in lockdown and then winter starts, they'll either have double trouble with people infected by both Covid and the flu or, they'll have to stay in lockdown until next spring and try then, and frankly, I don't think the British public would have accepted a state of continual lockdown. I'm surprised they've endured it for as long as they have already.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2021 at 3:19am

Yes, we are sold to the wolves over here.  

"Let the bodies pile up!"  Boris was heard saying (alegedly).   Economics before lives, that is why our aid budget was just cut by 4 billion pounds too.

I know:  "Charity begins at home!" but it does not have to stop there.  In Britain it does not even START there.  BA$£47)$!!!!!

Thank you for the opportunity to rant, KiwiMum.  I needed that.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2021 at 4:28am

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP-1-sb0URk[/url] or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP-1-sb0URk Dr. John Campbell explaining (and basicly defending...) the UK govt. plans  in a very uncritical video ignoring basic facts...(for those facts see rest of this topic...). 

We did see reopining in NL june 26 followed by lots of superspread events...[url]https://nltimes.nl/2021/07/14/nearly-1000-people-infected-covid-utrecht-festival[/url] or https://nltimes.nl/2021/07/14/nearly-1000-people-infected-covid-utrecht-festival in the open air...(10%+ of the 10,000 visitors became infected !). 

[url]https://nltimes.nl/2021/07/14/half-nl-residents-find-quick-lockdown-relaxations-irresponsible[/url] or https://nltimes.nl/2021/07/14/half-nl-residents-find-quick-lockdown-relaxations-irresponsible and [url]https://nltimes.nl/2021/07/14/govt-failed-letting-people-party-immediately-janssen-vaccine-lawyers[/url] or https://nltimes.nl/2021/07/14/govt-failed-letting-people-party-immediately-janssen-vaccine-lawyers 

DJ-In NL government stupidity not only did bring an explosion of cases (R0 2,17 in some cities possibly R0 3+ ?) but may also result in lots of legal steps...Populism may have been a main reason for lifting restrictions-but "what the people want" can change in an hour...

The NL Dutch CDC-story is cases will decrease-over 10,000 cases this weekend "was an incident"...in the same time getting tested is a growing problem and can-in part-explain cases dropping..within a few hours we will see how NL "reopening cases" further develop...

Update [url]https://nltimes.nl/2021/07/14/dutch-coronavirus-average-now-worse-curfew[/url] or https://nltimes.nl/2021/07/14/dutch-coronavirus-average-now-worse-curfew ; Public health agency RIVM said that another 10,492 people tested positive for the SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus. That pushed the seven-day moving average up to 8,444, the most since January 2.

-

The new national seven-day average has increased 13-times compared to when infections began to rise after June 30. It has gone up by 406 percent just in the past week.

Amsterdam's moving average topped a thousand for the first time since testing was carried out on a wide scale. Some 1,215 residents tested positive for the infection, pushing the average up to 1,021.


Rotterdam (744), Utrecht (514), Groningen (458) and The Hague (308) all had remarkably high daily figures.

Hospitalizations for the disease have started to tick up in the Netherlands, but are not expected to reach the same heights of the second and third wave of the pandemic. 

DJ-If the UK is an example of what to expect NL hospital cases will increase !

For the UK local governments, healthcare etc may undo government insanity. London sticks to masks in public transport, lots of healthcare proberbly will include masks/social distance now in house-rules...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2021 at 9:34am

I have no idea how the Americans cope without insurance, it must be a nightmare.

First of all, thanks for the opportunity to vent, and KiwiMum, yours was a very good and reasoned response.

To answer your last observation:  the thing about the American system is that our citizens have lived with our healthcare system being as it is for so long, they don't know anything different, and they can't imagine anything different in many cases.  Many Americans, especially those who have good jobs with good benefits, have no clue how those without good healthcare live, and it seems like frequently they don't care, and are not interested in changing the system, frequently bewailing (((¡¡¡COST!!!  ¡¡¡HOW WILL WE PAY FOR IT!!!))). Ignoring, of course, that a segment of the population does pay for it, with poorer health and a lower quality of life than those with good benefits have, and that while other countries have higher taxes, we have much higher health costs here in America, largely because we pay for an insurance system that disempowers citizens and our doctors.

How do we cope?  The best we can.  Some of us qualify for Medicaid, which requires that every year at the anniversary of your initial application, you reapply again, and satisfy the state with endless pages of proof of income, and you must demonstrate that you do not have any unexplained/excess money in checking/savings/investment accounts, because that can disqualify you.  And then you carry a card that you show everywhere that proves that you qualify for services, prescriptions, etc.  In my state, I was pleasantly surprised to see that I was allowed to get alot of tests, not just preventative testing, but even things like vitamin levels.  BUT!  If I got Covid, there is no certainty that Medicaid would cover Monoclonal treatment, for example.  If I got it and I had to pay, it may well bankrupt me and/or cause my mother and me to lose our house.  Since my mother became disabled in 1994, we have almost lost our home three times, including the sheriff serving us with papers in 2000 saying we had 30 days to pay our yearly property taxes or we would be foreclosed upon.  This kind of thing happens frequently in the States, the only first world country where it does.  It would do us well, perhaps, to question our definition of freedom and equality, and whether our American system truly provides and symbolizes it.

Most importantly, although many people are quick to tell you that if you need medical care in the states you can get it, that's not really true.  For life-threatening conditions, for the most part yes.  But there are alot of conditions where you need treatment because the condition causes you to truly suffer.  And there is little provision for this.  So, for example, I have arthrosis of the right hip, and my left hip is also developing it.  I also suffer from vertigo.  I have been treated by a chiropractor and MDs for these conditions, and although there are a few causes, it is agreed by all that alot of these problems could be mitigated by a reduction surgery, which I cannot get until I get a job with a good benefits package (hard to do when you've been an "essential worker" most of your career), maybe when I hit retirement age 68 and start drawing Medicare, or $25,000 magically drops into my lap.  So until then, I just have to suffer, and get through the best I can, just as many Americans in my similar boat do.  Do we think, perhaps, that this is part of our opioid crisis?!

Anyway, I can see where the UK will reach a crisis with its NHS, and definitely that will have to be addressed in a satisfactory way.  I think it will be, and I hope so, for the sake of its citizens, some of whom I have become friendly with and fond of.  You don't want the American system.

I apologize for hijacking this thread, and thank you all for your indulgence.  Yesterday just happened to be one of those days I experienced vertigo, and so breast reduction was very much on my mind, and I was rather surprised that I saw it discussed here.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2021 at 2:11pm

Wow ViQueen, thank you for such a detailed explanation. Here in NZ we have a partially funded medical system. We have to pay $50 to see a doctor, but you can get an appointment straight away and they give you plenty of time with the doctor. Prescriptions are funded and you pay $5 for each item but the list of funded medications is limited so if you want a more advanced drug you have to pay for it yourself. 

If you need something like a hip replacement you go on the public list if you don't have insurance and it might take you 3 years to get your op, but you have to be in a bad way to get on the list. However, if you have an accident or injury, you get seen straight away at no cost. Any hint of cancer and you're in the hospital within a week or two and that's free too. I injured my knee in an accident and after the swelling had gone down and it was scanned I needed surgery and had it 2 weeks later, fully funded by the state. 

We have to pay for flu jabs and the like, but childhood vaccinations are free as are Covid jabs. All aspects of pregnancy and giving birth are covered and you get to pick your own midwife who will attend you throughout the pregnancy and be there for the birth.

Our system isn't perfect but I think it's better than the UK's. The one thing I think the UK should introduce is getting people to pay to see the doctor. It would stop the time wasters.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2021 at 2:23pm

No wonder my cousin (living in Wisconsin) is desperately trying to get her(Yankee) husband papers so she can go back and live in the UK,

My mother in the UK ,has had 4 knee replacements two when she was 50+ two over the last 5 years ,at no cost .....

Also after a fall which broke her femur,had 2 major surgeries again no cost .......

America seems such a very "unfair" place to live for under privileged folks ......

A taxpayers health system is a no brainer .....

For a caring society.....

Especially ones wealthy as the USA......

Take care all 😷😉

PS I was going to ask ME 163 what would happen if he didn't have insurance..??

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2021 at 5:08pm

The UK's system is pretty good.  Yes, there are waiting lists for things like hip replacements and you need to be pretty bad to get on the list in the first place.  But almost everything is free at the point of need.  There are exceptions.  In England, there is a charge for perscriptions (Which children, the elderly, low incomes and a few other people are excempt from) but there is no charge in Scotland.  I don't know how much the charge is, or if Wales or Northern Ireland have such charges.  Seeing the doctor is free (I don't disagree with KiwiMum that there should be a small charge for this, but I think £50 would be to much.  On the other hand, it might put some people off long enough for serious diseases like cancer to take hold.  That's a tough one.) and waiting lists for serious diseases are very short.  You can even get free transport to hospital if your need is great enough.  Ambulances are free.

We have hidden charges.  Parking at any hospital is exhorbitant for instance.

We Brits love our NHS.  The steady errosion of its finances is the most likely thing to cause the Conservatives to lose the next election.  I voted for them this time around, but will not do so again for this reason (among others).  I am not alone in this.  The NHS is something we would fight for.

Many of us find the American refusal to implement the equivalent of our NHS incomprehensible.  We would cite it as proof that the USA is uncivilized and barbaric.  'And, yes, it does make a mockery of civil liberties.  The right to life is paramount; without it nothing else matters.  A corpse does not care about its legal rights.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2021 at 8:11pm

Yes, there are alot of people here in the States who are living with alot of pain or illness because they can't afford some treatment or surgery.  The American system and attitude are hard for me to comprehend.  I can see being concerned about how to fund a good healthcare system, but I can't understand the lack of a moral will to solve that problem.  Why don't we see that having our citizens being as healthy as possible could only benefit our country?  Healthy people contribute more!  And they're happier!

I wish more of my countrymen would read The Nordic View Of Everything by Anu Partanen.  It may cause them to rethink what freedom really is.  Because how can you be truly free if you're chronically sick or in pain?  And for a country that claims to believe in equality, why do we allow only those who can pay to ameliorate their pain or illness?

I think most Americans are ignorant of the fact that when LBJ signed Medicare into law in that wonderful year, 1965, his intention was for the age qualification for Medicare to, over time, be reduced to the point that in x amount of years, it would cover everyone cradle to grave, giving a gradual phasing out of the insurance companies.  But they are a powerful poliitcal lobby, so it's easy to see where that idea went...

Carbon, to answer your question, I believe ME said his and Vicki's medical costs ran into the millions of dollars.  If they didn't have insurance, and they don't have that amount of money, they likely wouldn't be here for us to ask.   Even having insurance is no guarantee, because insurance costs money, and it is hard for even some middle-class people to afford good insurance.  And some insurance doesn't cover everything, or necessarily even the majority of expenses.  Some of you may remember that last year my mother was in the hospital and that I had alot of stress because the doctors and nurses did a lousy job of communicating with me about her condition, and then she picked up c. diff. in the hospital and had to go to another facility for therapy for three weeks.  I was worried sick because (in addition to Covid), three years prior, she had been in the hospital and the costs beyond her Medicare/insurance were so high that she had to file bankruptcy.  As I said before, the most common cause of bankruptcy and homelessness in America is medical costs.  The costs in hospitals are high to begin with, but my mother was charged hundreds of extra dollars above and beyond what Medicare/insurance paid for because of "doctor's consultations".   

I have to go back to work soon.  I am trying to find a butt-sitting job (too old, too much pain to run around like a headless chicken 8 hours a day) where I have or can pay for decent health insurance.  Otherwise what will happen if I get Covid?  If I die, who will take care of my mother?  Besides, lol, I gotta be able to get my "mountains to molehills" surgery!  I'm happy that many of you live in other countries that get healthcare right.  I fervently wish the US joins you soon!

PS, I wonder if some of you folks from some other countries would mind sharing the cost of some of your most common prescription drugs?  

And PPS, Techno, that air rifle story, yikes!!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2021 at 9:37pm

We pay to see doctor,about $40,of which you get $30  back from Medicare ,we pay a percentage of our pay towards Medicare,some of our expensive drugs are heavily subsidised by government,so instead of paying thousands  a month you might pay a couple of hundred......


The Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme (PBS) began as a limited scheme in 1948, with free medicines for pensioners and a list of 139 'life-saving and disease preventing' medicines free of charge for others in the community. ... Under the PBS, the government subsidises the cost of medicine for most medical conditions.1 Jan 2021
https://m.pbs.gov.au › about-the-pbs

Take care all 😷😉

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2021 at 5:35am

Rifle story?  This side of the fence budding teenage girl and her best friend - just beginning puberty.  Next door slightly older teenage boys.   My G-cup proved too tempting a target!

It was a fairly low powered air-rifle and at the time I thought it funny.  I did have a huge deep bruise and some tendon damage.  Dad went ballistic!  I never had him really defend me like that before or after. 

 I had a tiny scar in the middle of my back from the incident too.  Now, turning 60, that other scar has finally faded into invisibility.


Hardly James Bond, Lethal Weapon or the Terminator.  I can make even getting shot boring.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2021 at 9:45am

I wasn't asking, Techno, I was just observing that getting shot by an air rifle in the G-Cup sounded -- yikes.  After hearing that, i felt about my breasts the way men feel about their man parts when there is a discussion about vasectomies.

Good on your father -- I would've been furious.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2021 at 12:39pm
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2021 at 10:15pm

Happy Freedom Day, to all in England.

Freedom to be irresponsible, Freedom to spread Covid-19 and all its variants. Freedom to be selfish. Freedom to enjoy yourself at the expense of others' lives.   

To paraphrase the good book "Lets Eat, Drink and be Merry, for tomorrow the person I give covid to might die."


ps. and Happy Birthday to my sister and grand-niece.  (not that they are on this forum to see this, the grand-niece being only 1 year old, so a "pandemic baby").

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2021 at 10:58pm

Give it a month.....

Cases will soar.....

Hope I'm very wrong.....

Take care all 😷😉

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 19 2021 at 2:26am

[url]https://www.politics.co.uk/reference/conservative-party/[/url] or https://www.politics.co.uk/reference/conservative-party/In terms of economic policy, the Conservative Party is economically liberal, generally favouring the free market and opposing government controls.

DJ-A pandemic may need a very (pro)active government...this way of "market belief" may worsen pandemics !

[url]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/[/url] or https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/ ;

highest number of cases so far; 67,803 on january 8 2021...the expectation is the UK will soon be over that number-july 17 had 54,486 cases...

highest number of deaths was 1,823 on january 20 2021. July 15 did see 63 deaths...trends are going up. But the "hope" BoJo&Co have it will not explode...

UK had 5,433,939 cases so far-resulting in 128,708 reported/tested deaths. 

December 19 the UK went over the 2 million cases, on february 12 the UK passed the 4 million cases...the explosion then was related to the Alfa/UK variant. 

November 11 the UK went over the 50,000 deaths (fitting UK definition of Covid deaths). On january 6 the UK passed the 100,000 mark. 

Today the UK is at #7 for total cases in the global list, #3 in Europe (after Russia and France). 

Deaths UK at #7 as well worldwide-for Europe the UK at #2 (Russia at #1, Italy #3).

[url]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/weekly-trends/#weekly_table[/url] or https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/weekly-trends/#weekly_table 

At the moment UK at #71 worldwide in weekly case% increase-trends. Deaths increase list global UK at #47 for %

Cases Europe in % UK at #20, deaths Europe in % UK at #4...

In real numbers trends for UK 

Cases worldwide at #2 for last 7 days (+313,647) , #4 previous week 217,550 cases

Europe UK in real numbers at #1 for both weeks. (Europe last week 874,331 week before 645,841 so UK is increasing its part of European numbers from around 1/3 to 3/7)

Deaths UK (#25 worldwide, #2 for Europe) last week real numbers 283 out of a total of 54,731 global deaths, 6,690 European deaths. 

The week before the UK ((#30 worldwide, #2 for Europe) 203 deaths out of a global 54,651 deaths 6,412 European deaths.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 19 2021 at 4:45am

They are soaring already, Carbon.  "Going to soar - even higher." would work.

Freedom day for the idiots, Edwin.  Lockdown day for the rest of us, who were enjoying a tiny bit of freedom whilst the risks were low; ... not any more.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 19 2021 at 2:38pm







Cases are soaring all over.......

Maybe more should be vaccinated.....(see other thread)..... lmao 

sorry couldn't resist it.......

Take care all 😷😉


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2021 at 2:50am

DJ,

Dr. John Campbell did a very good job-lots of times-giving a lot of good info. I am very sorry to see he is now doing a very bad job...[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP8gsgTFPVc[/url] or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP8gsgTFPVc in his latest monday update...I ran out of patience with this Dr. when he starts blaming young people waiting to get into clubs because restrictions were lifted....The BoJo&Co pseudo "government" is doing a very bad job  by reopening !

UK reopens, it is going to be a difficult summer Neil Ferguson, (SAGE member) England and Scotland have eases restrictions 

Almost all legal restrictions on social contact end in England 

Almost certain to reach 100,000 cases per day 1,000 hospital admissions per day 

Maintaining this level could be described as success 

Possible to reach 200,000 cases per day 2,000 hospital admissions per day 

This would cause major disruption to the NHS 

Much less certain to predict 

May be a need to slow the spread to some extent If hospital admissions were to reach 2,000 or 3,000 per day 

Best projections Peak, between August and mid-September 

It will take 3 weeks to know effects of easing 

DJ So "the plan" is to allow 60 days of at least 100,000 new cases per day=6 million new cases to reach for the illusion of herd immunity...

Long Covid Another 500,000 mpeople could get long Covid

DJ And may see life long health issues...

I think case numbers are likely to be declining at least by late September, even in the the worst-case scenario 

Going into the winter, I think we will have quite a high degree of immunity against Covid, the real concerns are a resurgence of influenza, because we haven't had any influenza for 18 months

DJ...BS !!! The idea of 6 million cases in 60 days in limited vaccinated people WILL result in more vaccine escape, new variants ! We have seen that before ! More cases=more mutations=more variants...very basic !!!

British Retail Consortium Government must bring forward the changes on self-isolation from 16 August so that people who are fully vaccinated or have a negative test are not forced to needlessly quarantine

DJ Vaccination may result in even MORE a/presymptomatic spread !!!! Telling people it is okay-for ECONOMY reasons-to go to work after contact with infected people is making matters worse and harming public health yet again...

A 1,000 + new hospital cases per day is pushing public healthcare further into an already excisting crisis !

The only GOOD reaction if you give a ..... on public health is to condemn this madness ! Dr.J.C. seems to be defending-again-economy first...

Variants win with half choices ! Why not stop testing ? "We have to live with it"-nonsense ? Then the pandemic is "over"-denial did win ! 

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2021 at 6:12am

[url]https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/07/21/what-dominic-cummings-said-next-the-case-for-an-urgent-inquiry-into-englands-pandemic-response-gets-stronger-and-stronger/[/url] or https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/07/21/what-dominic-cummings-said-next-the-case-for-an-urgent-inquiry-into-englands-pandemic-response-gets-stronger-and-stronger/ ;

While a failure to understand the seriousness of a newly discovered virus at the start of the pandemic, especially by someone who, according to Cummings, viewed becoming prime minister as “a laughing matter” may be understandable, his failure to reimpose restrictions when cases were rising again in September 2020 is less easy to understand. 


However, Cummings does offer us three reasons for this hesitation that, again, led to unnecessary suffering and loss of life. 


First, Keir Starmer, the leader of the opposition, had demanded a “circuit breaker” and Johnson felt he could not be seen to agree with him. 


Second, many of his own MPs were strongly opposed, with Cummings describing them as having “lost their minds.”


 Third, The Daily Telegraph, which Johnson reputedly refers to as his “real boss” was against it. Clearly it is difficult to reconcile this account with “following the science.”


DJ The "best 3 prepared for pandemic countries in 2019" US,UK,NL were run by insane clowns, egocentric sociopaths...

This pandemic is mostly caused by these 3 "idiots"...trump, bo-jo, rutte killed tens of thousends, did cause permanent health damage to millions-to "save the economy"...

The International Criminal Court is where they-and bolsonaro, netanyahu etc. belong !

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cn65 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2021 at 6:26am

and you can add that in Wales the devolved government there had a "circuit breaker" which was advised as something they had to do to ensure Christmas was going to be without restrictions.

But of course as we know

1. the circuit breaker lockdown did nothing whatsoever other than create mega rows about what non-essentials supermarkets could sell or not sell while the same local shops were required to close and not sell them while at the same time Amazon could sell whatever it liked.

2. They got the UK wide Christmas lock down anyway........

During the welsh circuit breaker only essential repairs were supposed to be done so what all tradesmen did was spend the week prior desperately buying all the materials they needed for the next two weeks of jobs, and dumping them at the houses they were going to working on. Then they could claim that the job was "started" and they need to ensure it was "safe" etc etc as a ruse to allow them to keep working throughout the Welsh 2 week circuit breaker.


Needles to say any talk of "circuit breakers" as a policy vanished from sight thereafter following this experience.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2021 at 6:32am

Originally posted by Dutch Josh Dutch Josh wrote:

This pandemic is mostly caused by these 3 "idiots"...trump, bo-jo, rutte killed tens of thousends, did cause permanent health damage to millions-to "save the economy"...

The International Criminal Court is where they-and bolsonaro, netanyahu etc. belong !

I must be missing Jacksdad too much.  I am your Yesman now DJ.

YES!

How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ME163 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2021 at 6:40am

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

Rifle story?  This side of the fence budding teenage girl and her best friend - just beginning puberty.  Next door slightly older teenage boys.   My G-cup proved too tempting a target!

It was a fairly low powered air-rifle and at the time I thought it funny.  I did have a huge deep bruise and some tendon damage.  Dad went ballistic!  I never had him really defend me like that before or after. 

 I had a tiny scar in the middle of my back from the incident too.  Now, turning 60, that other scar has finally faded into invisibility.


Hardly James Bond, Lethal Weapon or the Terminator.  I can make even getting shot boring.


Tech, I feel bad for you. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2021 at 6:58am

Don't be.  I'm happy with my lot.  Thank you anyway, ME.





.........................................  It would be nice to be more interesting though, being able to render such an incident as being shot boring is quite an unwanted talent.

How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ME163 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2021 at 9:43am

If i did not have the private insurance i would be dead....  Both of us would be dead.  My dad's old boss and the insurance company found a copy of the rider ( additional coverage ) that covers me and my family for life.  The insurance company did the right thing and covers everything.  Crazy brave doctors and nurses, who worked around the clock to save us.   Jill and Becky have been so good to us.   I can say only one thing about the company and my dad's old boss. They were true to their word.  They paid and they will pay until both of us are in the ground. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2021 at 12:53am

I think we need to wait and see what is really happening, but

Quote Like Olympic gold medallists, Tom Daley and Matty Lee, Covid cases in the UK are taking a spectacular dive. 

The number of confirmed daily cases has fallen for six days in a row - now standing at 24,950. 

It's little over a week since there were warnings we could reach 100,000 or even 200,000 cases a day. And unlike the previous two waves of Covid, it is happening without a national lockdown. Instead, we're opening up. 

The turnaround is as surprising as it is welcome.  


Meanwhile in Scotland both cases and hospitalization are going down. 

One possible reason is that the germ mixing factories (schools) have closed for the summer holidays.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57971990

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2021 at 2:01am

Don't hold your breath.......

Give it 2weeks......

Take care all 😷😉

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2021 at 11:49am

Yes, look what is happening in the States.  I keep saying it, people: we are in a WAR against Covid.  Sun Tzu in The Art Of War recommended a variety of weapons, tactics and forms of evasion in a war.  This is what should be practiced in this situation, IMHO.

I am the DZ Queen, and I approve this message.
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