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PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
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Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

CDC: H2H is a Fact:

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Thomas Angel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thomas Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2006 at 7:47am
Originally posted by Mark Mark wrote:

There may have been H2H transmission cases, but it does not necessarily mean a pandemic has started.  As in the case of the 1918 flu, it had to go through several transmissions between humans before it mutated into the killer flu.  If a case gets transmitted from one human to another, and that second human dies, that strain dies with them.  They would need to pass it on to another, then another, then another, and so forth, before it could become a pandemic virus.

Also, as in the 1918 flu again, it can mutate into a rather benign form first and sweep the world.  This may already be happening, and no one may know it.

Mark, you can erase the word "may" from your vocabulary in regards to H2H cases of H5N1 A.  Perhaps you didn't read the first post and hit the link which directs you to the CDC website.
 
What we know  is that H5N1 is just one mutation away from becoming more easily transmissable.  It may have done so yesterday, last week, or this morning while we were fast asleep.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fritz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2006 at 9:49am
Mary, the abc webpage on Bf has been around for a while. They just keep adding stories to it as they air so it just grows and grows with the media coverage.
No need for panic......just keep on prepp'n people!!!! fritz :>}
BTW, I am told there is another article in the NY times today. I have to go check it out. TTFN
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kelly77143 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2006 at 10:53am
I just heard some information and if anyone would know it would be you guys. I heard that FPandL (florida power and light) has told their employees to stock up on tamaflu in order to be prepared for the bird flu. Does this stuff really combat against the virus or are they just telling people that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Amethyst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2006 at 6:29pm
How are their employees supposed to stock up on Tamiflu if the doctors won't prescribe it because they're not sick?  Also, last I heard the so-called experts still don't know if it will do anything.  It seems to work only if given within 24 hours of getting sick, and IIRC you might not have very many symptoms at the time, so it could be mistaken for a cold at first.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohmmmm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2006 at 6:40pm
Also, the typicaly dose may not be enough.  It seems that possibly a double dose for ten days might be needed instead of the standard doese for five days.  Consequently, we may have to convince the doctor to write four prescriptions...not just one.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2006 at 8:56pm

Time is closing in. Get your preps completed.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tazman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2006 at 8:56am
My theory is that when the mosquito season starts (around the globe) it will begin.
These mosquito's start sucking blood from sick chickens, pigs, wild birds, cats and then they bite human beings.
Go figure. These are the messengers of death and I believe it will really be a problem in Warm areas.

This mosquito factor may need a thread by itself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2006 at 9:13am
Terrible thought Tazman. I had not considered transmissions by Mosquito's.  I think they call that West Nile Virus. I wonder how they differ? Maybe the West Nile Virus is only contagious from a Mosquito M2H and not M2H2H? I'm not in that field, just don't know. Scary thought. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seesthelight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2006 at 3:04pm
Originally posted by Thomas Angel Thomas Angel wrote:

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/avian/outbreaks/current.htm

Summary

Influenza A (H5N1) is an influenza A virus subtype that occurs mainly in birds, is highly contagious among birds, and can be deadly to them. Outbreaks of H5N1 among poultry are ongoing in a number of countries. While H5N1 does not usually infect people, human cases of H5N1 infection associated with these outbreaks have been reported Most of these cases have occurred from direct or close contact with infected poultry or contaminated surfaces; however, a few rare cases of human-to-human spread of H5N1 virus have occurred, though transmission has not continued beyond one person.

" however, a few rare cases of human to human spread of virus have occurred,..."
 
Nice to see them admit that publically.  That means it is happening.  Now.  Not a possiblity in some distant future time, but actually has happened and they are willing to admit it has happened.  .
 
This is old news to me..they have known about these"rare cases" or the other terminology used "unsustained cases" since 2005.  This is not new.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thomas Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2006 at 7:12pm
Originally posted by seesthelight seesthelight wrote:

Originally posted by Thomas Angel Thomas Angel wrote:

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/avian/outbreaks/current.htm

Summary

Influenza A (H5N1) is an influenza A virus subtype that occurs mainly in birds, is highly contagious among birds, and can be deadly to them. Outbreaks of H5N1 among poultry are ongoing in a number of countries. While H5N1 does not usually infect people, human cases of H5N1 infection associated with these outbreaks have been reported Most of these cases have occurred from direct or close contact with infected poultry or contaminated surfaces; however, a few rare cases of human-to-human spread of H5N1 virus have occurred, though transmission has not continued beyond one person.

" however, a few rare cases of human to human spread of virus have occurred,..."
 
Nice to see them admit that publically.  That means it is happening.  Now.  Not a possiblity in some distant future time, but actually has happened and they are willing to admit it has happened.  .
 
This is old news to me..they have known about these"rare cases" or the other terminology used "unsustained cases" since 2005.  This is not new.
Well sure they did.  Anyone with half a brain did.  It was new in the respect that it was the first time that CDC admitted it openly when they posted it on their lil' homely website devoid of any pratical or useful information back on the date I pulled it off their site and posted it here that same day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2006 at 7:10am

Originally posted by lauramiii@hotmail.co lauramiii@hotmail.co wrote:

can anyone tell me about a site that gives a clear hand washing technique
I saw it on Oprah once ... wash thoroughly with soap & water (like described above would be good) and don't stop sudsing up and rubbing till you are finished singing 'Happy Birthday' or the 'ABC's! She filmed people at the sinks washing their hands, at her studio, and you wouldn't believe how many people just skimmed under the water with NO soap ... never mind the people who just didn't do it! I always watch in a public bathroom, now to kinda take my own poll...and I'm not seeing very good results either!! I'm always standing there still scrubbing when one person stops and another starts! And then I can tell you I DON'T touch the doors going out ... I use elbows and paper towels for that!-k

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fiddlerdave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2006 at 11:15pm
Has simple pictures in a pdf document
 
www.health.gov.on.ca/english/ public/pub/pubhealth/pdf/handwash_tech.pdf
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spirit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2006 at 8:06am
But they are still not up after a week!!!Cry
 
What's the deal?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sorrels Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2006 at 9:20am
Hi, One thing that is truly useful is bleach. If you never used bleach in your kitchen before, try using it now to sanitize dishes and tools used in food preparation. Bleach's effectiveness is multiplied by the addition of vinegar which lowers the pH of the hypochlorite and makes more chlorine available. A 250 ml wash bottle with 10 mls bleach and 30 mls vinegar and brought to volume with tap water is effective.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote endman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2006 at 2:05pm

I always thought that ADIS can be transmitted via a mosquito bite.
Why not BF, but I think you need a special kind of mosquito the one that can transmit malaria .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 7Strong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2006 at 4:53pm
I'm sure if it could be transmitted through mosquitos we would have heard more about it by now............  wouldn't we??  I think I read somewhere.....  maybe one of Joes posts......  about insect vectors.  Someone who knows ease our minds!   PLEASE!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hairstdngup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2006 at 6:41pm
Been lurking for a month or so.  It seems very obvious that clusters are ocurring.  I apologize if this reference has been posted and discussed.  It was under a menu heading of "references" on a CDC page.  Looks like last fall referring to cases from first half of '05.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spirit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 5:43am

Sorry, I don't seem to know how to make the original comment come up in my reply. I, also having trouble controlling my font size!

 

Endman said:

I always thought that ADIS can be transmitted via a mosquito bite.
Why not BF, but I think you need a special kind of mosquito the one that can transmit malaria .

Endman and 7 Strong, You can go to this link Titled:

Why Mosquitoes Cannot Transmit AIDS

by Wayne J. Crans, Associate Research Professor in Entomology

http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~insects/aids.htm

Headings in the article include:

Mosquitoes Do Not Ingest Enough HIV Particles to Transmit AIDS by Contamination

Mosquitoes Are Not Flying Hypodermic Needles

Mosquitoes Digest the Virus that Causes AIDS

Perhaps the BF will behave similarly in mosquitoes.

 

.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 7Strong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 6:03am

Thanks for the info Spirit.  I thought if it were possible we would have heard it before.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thomas Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 6:10am
Originally posted by 7Strong 7Strong wrote:

Thanks for the info Spirit.  I thought if it were possible we would have heard it before.

Given that West Nile virus is spread by the mosquito, I would not rule out H5N1 being transmitted eventually by the same vector.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 7Strong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 6:22am
Had to bring me down huh Thomas?  kidding of course.....  It sure would be nice to to hear from someone who knows. 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sven,- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 10:09pm
Dead Right you are about most people not washing their hands in the bathroom! Disgusting. That is why I carry the little alcohol bottles of sanitizer in my car. After shaking hands with these folks, I use it right away!  BF or no BF we should all keep up our handwashing!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spirit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2006 at 6:58am
Right now there appears to be no evidence of Mosquito born H5N1 -
 
But watch out for the flies Thomas Angel!

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4967188

Q: Can mosquitoes be a vector for the spread of avian flu virus? -- Carol Taylor, Lovington, New Mexico

A: Influenza is not normally a disease that is transmitted by a vector such as a mosquito. But because the virus is relatively environmentally stable, mechanical transmission by insects, such as flies, is a possibility. Since the virus can survive for long periods in the wild, flies might pick it up when they land on feces or infected birds, and then carry it to other animals. Mosquitoes typically transmit diseases, such as West Nile Virus, by ingesting blood from infected animals, then transmitting it to the next animal they feed on.

Based on your comment and respecting your views and observations, I looked up some more papers on the subject, but it's still not clear about transmission through the mosquitoes. "Not clear" in that they seem to say  there isn't transmission, but we have to constantly question.
I'll keep my eye out in my wanderings T. Angel.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tonseck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2006 at 2:17pm
There have been no reports of AI being spread by mosquitos.  This is probably because the virus travels on airborne vectors and is primarily a pulmonary disease.  Coughing releases it from the deep lobes of the lungs in those who are infected, and it then has to make it down into the lower lung in recipients.  It's just not efficient yet.  This is NOT a blood-borne pathogen.  The idea of mosquitos carrying bird feces dust on theie feet is also a non-starter, because there is no vector to get it into your lower lungs.

For handwashing info, check out the video page in the forum.  There's a great one from Australia.


Edited by carpenter - April 06 2006 at 2:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spirit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2006 at 6:22pm
Thanks Carpenter!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2006 at 1:15pm
Mosquitos are not a vector as far as we know.  As Carpenter correctly pointed out, AI is not a blood borne disease.  We do test blood for antibodies to it, though.

There is always the remote possibility of the virus mutating into a form that can be carried in the blood.  I would think the odds of being hit by a meteor are greater.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2006 at 2:46pm
Originally posted by carpenter carpenter wrote:


There have been no reports of AI being spread by mosquitos.  This
is probably because the virus travels on airborne vectors and is
primarily a pulmonary disease.  Coughing releases it from the deep
lobes of the lungs in those who are infected, and it then has to make
it down into the lower lung in recipients.  It's just not
efficient yet.  This is NOT a blood-borne pathogen.  The idea
of mosquitos carrying bird feces dust on theie feet is also a
non-starter, because there is no vector to get it into your lower lungs.

For handwashing info, check out the video page in the forum.  There's a great one from Australia.



    I think at the moment mosquitoes a further down the list of scientific priorities. Possibly the new British research facility on Zoonosis may one day yield some answers.

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