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Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

AUGUST 1997 I need a myth buster

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araywood View Drop Down
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    Posted: March 30 2006 at 6:02pm
Hi guys......this is long SORRY, I have had it a while I even correct the spelling and I had to remove the hyperlinks (they have been deleted????)  there were pictures that went along with this.  I don't know, do you guys think this is BS????? were did this come from???? Someone sent it to me. It actually is two stories???? THANKS 

BIRD FLU STARTED IN ALASKA IN AUG 1997

 and reached China/Siberia by a few migratory birds, probably by the Dunlin. These birds where pecking in an opened gravesite of a lady who died in 1918 from the Spanish Flu (H1N1 strain). Her body was exhumed in August 20 to retrieve cell tissues from her chest, so as to research the Spanish flu virus that killed an approximate 100 million people in 1918. The problem here is that in August 1997 Alaska had one of its warmest seasons in record,16 centigrades; the optimum temperature for virus growth. Another problem this gravesite was left open for 4 days before being recovered. The Doctor who exhumed her body used no quarantine measures,. Just a shovel and garden tools. Her body must have started to decompose and enter the soil organisms. It just needed a Dunlin (shorebird)to peck around and eat one of these organisms so as to reactivate this virus in its intestines, which is the optimum environment for the virus (H1N1) to reactivate. The Dunlin migrates from Alaska to Siberia, then to China in early autumn. 4 month later on December 15th 1997 we have the first Bird Flu deaths in quantity in Hong Kong. Shoham believes that the influenza virus is the most likely to emerge from the freeze/thaw process in a fit enough state to re-infect humans. "It has the properties that would allow it to survive the ice and the ability to transfer between animals and humans once it is out," he says.
The avian influenza virus can remain viable for long periods of time at moderate temperatures, and can survive indefinitely in frozen material.
However, the virus is clearly recombining and reassorting, so it could also reassort with H5N1 to produce an H1N1 with H5N1 internal genes or it could recombine, placing an H1N1 receptor binding sequence on an H5N1 virus.

See how big this hole was; it stayed open for 4 days before being recovered. Enough time for optimum thaw for a dormant virus to revive especially in the middle of August in Alaska. This spot lays a few meters form the sea shore which logically is full of shorebirds who would curiously peck into this nearby hole. These northern shorebirds migrate in early autumn to Siberia and China.

 

On his solitary expedition, the San Francisco physician carried just one tool: a pair of garden clippers borrowed, without permission, from his wife. He found, buried in the sub arctic permafrost, a corpse containing remnants of the elusive 1918 virus. The tissue Hultin retrieved from that corpse is now helping federal researchers unlock the microscopic secrets behind the pandemic. In 1997, he learned of the work of a government scientist, Dr. Jeffrey K. Taubenberger, a molecular pathologist at the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology who was attempting to map the 1918 virus using minute specimens collected in 1918 and embedded in wax. Hultin wrote a cordial, stupefying letter: Would Taubenberger be interested in tissue if Hultin could dig it up? Stunned, Taubenberger said yes.Hultin set out alone for Alaska a week later.Ironically, at the same time, a similar, considerably higher-profile expedition was under way on a remote Norwegian island some 800 miles from the Arctic Circle.Led by Kirsty Duncan, a young geographer at the University of Windsor and the University of Toronto, the mission was to determine if the bodies of seven young miners, who'd crossed the Norwegian Sea in 1918 in search of work, contained frozen remnants of the killer virus. According to "Flu," by New York Times reporter Gina Kolata, Duncan believed the bodies might yield answers, but the project was rife with uncertainty. If the bodies had been buried in an area subject to melting and refreezing, hope of finding the virus would vanish - the influenza virus was delicate, if exposed to room temperature for even one hour it would die.Duncan put together an impressive, well-financed team including world-class scientists from England, Canada and the U.S. The costly project, taking about four years to plan, generated worldwide publicity and debates over the potential danger of releasing live flu viruses from the bodies of the long- dead miners. That mission ended in disappointment - the ground the miners were buried in had thawed and refrozen. By contrast, Hultin's homespun expedition, which took mere days to plan, generated no publicity and cost $3,200, which Hultin himself paid.In Alaska, he found the village had changed considerably, now with a post office and mayor. Hultin met with the village matriarch. That very afternoon, Hultin started digging with the help of several young men. "I could have done it myself, but it would have taken weeks, so I accepted their help," he says.That night, and for the rest of his week in Alaska, Hultin slept on the floor of the village school.
Four days after opening the ground, Hultin discovered, seven feet deep, a woman's corpse. Fancifully, he dubbed her Lucy. Later he learned that Lucy had been an obese woman who died from the flu in her mid-20s.
Using his wife's pruning shears, Hultin opened Lucy's mummified rib cage. There he found two frozen lungs, the very tissue he n-needed. "Her lungs were magnificent, full of blood," Hultin says. He removed the lungs, sliced them, placed them in preserving fluid. Then he and the village helpers replaced the graveyard sod.

I added the link below because it kinda supported the above. 

 http://www.recombinomics.com/News/02250601/H5N1_Swan_Italy_Sequence.html

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2006 at 6:45pm
I heard about Johan Hultin and his Alaskan journey last year, but never put this togther.  Is it possible or just coincidence?
 
 
It's not so much the apocalypse... but the credit card bills ;-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote araywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2006 at 7:02pm
THANKS for reading it. I posted on FLUWIKI about 2 months ago just try to figure it out. OMG you would of thought I was patient Zero.Angry They thought  I was niman protegy.Evil Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2006 at 8:01pm
Makes sense in a Niman kinda way... only kidding.... I've nominated him for a Nobel.
 
Have you verified the exhumation happened when it's stated that it occurred?  I remember it being more recent, but my memory is pretty crappy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2006 at 8:08pm

I was able to verify the year, 1997... just not the month yet.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2006 at 8:18pm
Okay... it was August 1997.  Dr. Johan Hultin exhumed the body of a very well preserved female, he named lucy, who was infected with the 1918 strain.  Four months later H5N1 is first reported in Asia.
 
I could be way off base here... but very intriguing indeed!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mightymouse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2006 at 8:18pm
How Bizarre.  This is right up there with a butterfly in Africa being responsible for Hurricane Katrina.  And also note how the naysayers will spin this:
 
Thieving Minimalist Quack Digs Up The Dead-
On his solitary expedition, the San Francisco physician carried just one tool: a pair of garden clippers borrowed, without permission, from his wife.
 
Well - anyway - at least we exported 'something' to China instead of the other way around.  And what thanks do we get?
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2006 at 8:22pm
Ya know.... I don't believe in coincidences.  The virus exists all happy and normal from 1959 until 1997 and then BANG.  What else happened in 1997?  Lucy.
 
<SZ scratches head, and wonders>
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ironstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2006 at 8:28pm
1997 was the year the father and son died outside of HK.  If H1N1 was back in the birds then why did H5N1 not pick up 190 from it?   Also H1N1 was quite letal, why no rodent deaths and such form the bird dying?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2006 at 8:29pm
I love a good mystery. Smile
 
Time to do some more investigating.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ironstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2006 at 8:39pm
The first known case of human infection with influenza A(H5N1) occurred in a 3-year-old boy who died from respiratory failure in May 1997
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2006 at 8:51pm
I guess that blows this theory out of the water. Dead  Although it's a little strange how one toddler gets it in May and 15 people get it in Nov/Dec.
 
Hmmmmmmmmmmm...
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The first known case of human infection with influenza A(H5N1) occurred in a 3-year-old boy who died from respiratory failure in May 1997 (1). Of the 15 remaining confirmed cases, five persons had onset of illness in November and 10 in December; all three persons with suspected cases had onset during December. No cases have been identified with onset after December 28, 1997. Ages of persons with confirmed cases ranged from 1 to 60 years (mean age: 17 years) and, for persons with suspected cases, from 3 to 7 years (mean age: 5 years). Nine (47%) cases occurred among persons aged less than or equal to 5 years. Four persons with confirmed cases have died, and three remain in critical condition.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2006 at 9:02pm

Scientists discover deadly bird flu began in Scotland

FRASER NELSON AND JIM GILCHRIST
 

Key points
The first record of the H5N1 virus has been traced to an Aberdeen farm
The avian flu has been tracked back to a Scottish chicken in 1959
The virus has become deadlier over the past 46 years

Story in full
THE strain of avian flu which has so far swept from South Korea to Russia made its world debut in 1959 inside a Scottish chicken, it has emerged.

< src="http://www.scotsman.com/js/init_250x250.js" =text/> < =1.1 =text/> < =1.1 src="http://ad.uk.tangozebra.com/a/aj/s/5740/1339;0.7811566538293304?ad_scotsman.js" =text/>

Scientists tracing the history of the H5N1 virus have traced its first recorded episode to an Aberdeen farm. The dead bird was taken to Surrey for medical examination, after infecting two flocks of chickens.

But while British medical authorities are preparing to cope with a pandemic of a new H5N1 outbreak from South-east Asia, the case notes of the original Scottish case have not been consulted, on the grounds that the virus has grown far heartier and deadlier over the past 46 years.

The reams of research papers tracing the history of H5N1, which resurfaced in South Korea two years ago, show academics are unanimous in identifying the virus as being effectively made in Scotland.

A scientist identified only as Dr JE Wilson, of the Veterinary Laboratory in Lasswade, outside Edinburgh, is recorded as having worked on the case - sending the chicken to Addlestone, where the strain was medically isolated so it could be used in experiments. The Scottish H5N1 has been used in experiments, named "chicken/Scotland/1959".

It was the first of 21 avian flu outbreaks that have affected the world - including English turkeys in 1963, 1979 and 1991. But none showed the powers of contagion seen by the eight Asian countries to have confirmed H5N1, which has killed 69 people and 100 million birds.

Tom Pennycott, an avian veterinary specialist at the Scottish Agricultural College at Auchincruive, Ayrshire, said the virus may have the same title, but other characteristics will have changed over 46 years.

"The H5N1 that was found back in 1959 would have been quite different to the one that's around now," he said. "Similarly, there was an H5N1 down in Norfolk in December 1991 and it will be different to the H5N1 that's about just now."

He added that the only additional information he has been able to find about the H5N1 in Scotland was that two flocks of chickens were infected. The total number of birds affected, however, was not reported.

No medical agency in Scotland or England was able to give many details - except to say that the disease has become heartier and deadlier since it was found in Scotland. There is also no sign of Dr Wilson. The Moredun Research Institute at Penicuik said that it had no record of him and that he was likely to have passed away.

Flu strains are named after the various H and N protein codes recognised by the immune system. No H5 flu had ever spread to humans before 1997, when Hong Kong reported six casualties.

The 1959 Scottish H5N1 was - like all its successors - incapable of moving from species to species. But this changed last year, when the South Korean version showed itself capable of infecting pigs, rodents and humans.

Scientists have been most alarmed at the fast rate of H5N1's mutation. For the first time, the virus can survive in chicken faeces and in dead meat, without requiring the flow of fresh blood. This has made it stealthier, claiming victims who had no obvious connection with the agricultural industry.

But its low human death toll suggests that the disease has yet to pass from human to human.

Meanwhile, Tony Blair, the Prime Minister, met British farmers yesterday and said he agreed with the National Farmers Union that chicken remained safe to eat.

 
 
FOR a good description of the spread of H5N1 and some of the  conditions in Asia which contributed to that spread, refer to Mike Davis's book: Monster at Our Door:The Global Threat of Avian Flu
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2006 at 9:09pm
Well, Dang!  It was a fun exercise while it lasted.  And had all the makings of a great Made-for-TV-Movie.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote araywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2006 at 10:07pm
Yea like I said 1 story was sent to me the other I found searching, then I found Dr Niman's site with the swan sequence a while after the article. I will post the picture I did save. Unfortunatly I did not get all the pictures. All the sites have since been disabled???? If you never here from me again then I was disabled  just like those sites LOL.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VtDoc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2006 at 11:09am
What's the frost depth there, a few meters from the sea?  Could the body even have been frozen for almost 90 years?  If so, then he digs 7 feet into solidly frozen ground with garden clippers?
 
What does the outside air temperature (16 degrees) have to do with a virus that needs to reside in a living cell to replicate?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2006 at 11:22am
I'm still reading, give me more information, SZ it's still a good sounding book.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JaxMax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2006 at 1:31pm
I say lets just blame the French.
He who walks with the wise grows wise, but a companion of fools suffers harm.Proverbs 13:20, The Bible
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swankyc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2006 at 1:35pm
Cant find that one but found this one http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/dogflu.asp
I'm not afraid, I'm paranoid. Dont talk too loud, they are listening.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote araywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2006 at 11:00pm
 
 
 
 
I am glad this guy isn't my surgeon, looks like he took the whole garage.
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