Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
There are more family H5N1 cases inTurkey |
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Posted: January 21 2006 at 4:34pm |
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Six members of the Ozcan
family living in the Dogubayazit district of the far eastern Turkish
province of Agri on the Iranian border were transferred on Friday to
Igdir State Hospital with suspected bird flu.
Six members of the Ozcan family, related to Fatma Ozcan who died of bird flu last Sunday, applied to hospital complaining of sickness. Father Mehmet Ozcan said that they had paid a condolence visit to Fatma's family. Two days ago he and his children ate chicken which his wife had killed and put into the deep freezer a month ago. Well, this is what I have been calling Sichuan Sheet since the coverup attempt in Sichuan, China. There, the Chinese tried to pass it off as a bacterial infection called Streptococcus Suis. It was not bacterial. Bacteria like Strep is far slower acting. In some cases, it was reported to have killed in hours after people handled infected pork with bare hands. Looks like even if the meat is frozen, it can kill you if you handle it. A warning to all hunters, the bird, deer or wild boar you kill can still kill you. Don't touch the meat! |
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phyrefly
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Fowl plague is caused by a bacteria, and when the confirmed H5N1 Korean find was first diagnosed, the vet thought it was fowl plague. Where is the evidence that refutes this scenario?
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Magpie Treads the Branch
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phyrefly
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Here is some evidence that supports the difficulty in diagnosing H5N1 AI / fowl plague: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&a mp;db=pubmed Differential Molybdenum Medium 13951053 Yersinia pseudotuberculosis As One Original Plague 16182593 Y. pseudotuberculosis / Thrush 12902256
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Magpie Treads the Branch
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Phyrefly, Are you saying that H5N1 is really a bacterial infection, something you call "fowl plague"? |
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phyrefly
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H5N1 is a virus, Yersinia pseudotuberculosis is a baccili. Symptom-wise, both can be called fowl plague and mistaken for each other, until tests confirm. Between two speculators, because of technology, one will get the correct answer, the other may not. |
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Magpie Treads the Branch
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phyrefly, your posts are beyond my comprehension. I am still not clear as to your belief. Understanding one is viral and one is bacterial...what do you believe is attacking the chickens/ducks and now people? I took from your post that you believe that it's really some sort of bacterial organism or something tick bourne. I'm sorry, but I truly don't understand most of what you post. I would LOVE to. It appears to me that you have done a lot of research and investigation, I just wish I could grasp what you are trying to tell us. |
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phyrefly
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H5N1 is a virus, sometimes incorrectly diagnosed in the host. Thus, it takes time to confirm it as such. The information about this mis-diagnosis was posted at Acarolgy. It was published in the Journal of Wildlife Diseases. Please read the pertinent abstract. Keyword searches: Pica, Korea. The tick connection means that an ectoparasite has ingested the host's blood, such as the magpie-robin in Hong Kong, or plague-vectoring fleas. The report on the H5N1-positive magpie-robin from Hong Kong did not mention any possible ectoparasites, or whether or not it was host to (definition of vector begins to blur here) other pathogens. The ectoparasite, as well as co-infection with other pathogens (bacteria, virus, etc.) can all serve to confound diagnosis. This confounding also serves to drive genetic mutation. |
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Magpie Treads the Branch
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Phyrfly's post are very difficult to understand. And I too would LOVE to know what he is talking about. |
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phyrefly
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I have had the same trouble on a lyme-autism list. I suggested that they find someone else to help them interpret.
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AuntBones
Adviser Group Joined: December 09 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 274 |
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thanks phyrefly... got your last 2 posts. Not good news
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phyrefly
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Aunt Bones, Albert, and Others, Thank you. The problem(s) in understanding this material may be overcome by forming certain questions and making a list of them. A medical dictionary will help. It was months before the keyword search at Acarology was operable. Now that it is, this can also be used. It should be asked: can everyone read what is being sent to Acarology at Yahoo Groups? Two attempts to send S / AI X.27 tells me the messages were sent, yet an hour later, they are not there. Sans egoism and paranoia, if one has understood what is being said at Acarology, they should realize why the interception of messages is a real possibility. Even though it may take time to explain some things, for me, the info in S / AI X.27 is a bombshell, as stunning as our new Miss America. Nevertheless, while having exercised my freedom (Freedom of Information Act displayed at National Library of Medicine) to read, to think and write, the reading audience is cheated out of the same right, by proxy. Like the poor Chinese guy who is so poor, he has to use glow-worms captured and placed in a gauze bag to create an overhead lamp. Or worse, having only caught one glow-worm, having to herd it along the surface of the text, squinting with a sprig of grass to keep it moving in line. :) |
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Magpie Treads the Branch
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Keep up the good work Phyrefly!
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phyrefly
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Albert, My question posed to this list remains unanswered. Therefore, the information both at Acarology now and any in the future, will be placed in three dimensions as pamphleteering. This is negotiation by other means. What this should mean for the readers of Bird Flu Discussion Forum, by most anyone's estimation, is that others will be receiving information, undocumented by the state, that will not have been placed at Acarology, Bird Flu Discussion Forum, nor on the Internet. Regards, Phyrefly |
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Magpie Treads the Branch
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CupcakeMom
Adviser Group Joined: January 20 2006 Status: Offline Points: 140 |
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What?
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meewee
Valued Member Joined: December 13 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 595 |
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Sooooo What are you asking? Meewee |
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God Bless us all!
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CupcakeMom
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Sorry, meewee, my post was unclear. It was a reaction to the previous post by phyerfly. Maybe I should have said "huh?" I would like to understand his posts but I'm afraid I don't have the smarts or the background in aracology.
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Well, I guess I gotta start in kindergarten! Acarology = The study of ticks & mites. (Wikie) OK, so phyrfly might be telling us one of two things (or two things at once) 1) The disease H5N1 may have a parasite vector. Without taking time to recreate the links that I lost in my motherboard implosion.... It has been determined that live H5N1 virus has been found on the legs of common flies in Japan (I believe the summer before last IIRC). Some speculation has been put forth that this may carry virus from bird poop to pig sty or vis-versa. So, if we accept for the moment that H5N1 has at least one proven insect vector, how large of a stretch is it that ticks or mites carry it, even temporarily, in their mouths, or guts, or both and then infects a host (bird???) with a bite. Do ticks bite multiple victims??? Not the way I understand them. Mites....wouldn't they be so minuscule that it would be difficult to transmit enough virus for it to replicate and move along the migration route or infect multiple victims. 2) Is he saying that the spread of virus is being carried ON their bodies like the fly? 3) Or is he saying both? I can see #2 but I don't know if I understand enough to accept #1. Or maybe I'm just on drugs and only THINK I may be gleaning a hint of what he is trying to tell us. |
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meewee
Valued Member Joined: December 13 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 595 |
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Well It's nice to know that I'm not the only only out in left field trying to catch a fly ball in the glare of direct sunlight! Tell me in straight English not in Latin or some hypothetical super complex language! I'm sorry if you think you are that smart and talk in medical and complex hyper-talk; it seems to me that you are playing games and sneering at those who might not be as "advanced" as you think you might be. Speak in simple English so that all might understand is all I'm asking. Meewee |
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God Bless us all!
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meewee
Valued Member Joined: December 13 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 595 |
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Phyrefly; Please do not think I am attacking you. I am only adressing the way you are presenting your information. You must present this in a way that even someone with a high school diploma can understand , if what you are saying is that important! Double talk or what I call Hyper talk ; that is too complex in latin or medical or scientific terms only causes frustration and leads to dicounting of possible valuable information that might be necessary for all of us common people to understand. If it is too complex, we might not even try to read and understand and you might be looked upon wrongly as somone who thinks they are superior to the "common masses". While for the most part I can understand or get the general drift of what you are trying to convey; you cannot post these cryptic posts and expect those who might benefit the most in this terminlogy. I know you did not start out speaking Latin so if you wish to get your point across, please do so in simple terms and analogies! Please? Meewee |
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God Bless us all!
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CupcakeMom
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Phyrefly, per your previous post: How do you 'place information in 3 dimensions'..."as in pamphleteering?" Why is this "negotiation by another means?" Why will we be receiving information "undocumented by the state?" Maybe I'm wrong, but I felt the gist of your post was that you were abandoning this forum for want of some answer you're looking for (?) I actually think you might be sincerely trying to interact with others by posting on various forums, but lack the ability to communicate in a way people can understand and relate to. I went back and searched your posts (you have countless postings, it seems, on multiple websites), and they are all the same-- obscure to the point of being indeciferable at times (sorry). Are you working under a handicap, perhaps asberger's disorder or autism or the like? I would like to understand your contributions to the discussion but cannot comprehend them. Best Wishes - Cupcake |
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Corn
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........mmmmmmmmm.......... I can apreciate what phyrefly has suggested as food for thought. here's what i gather from it all that i can understand. super flus and other flus past and present have been spread by more than birds. I think fleas spread the plague. I read yesterday a cockroach carries 32 known diseases, etc. Remember awhile back those people in the south west us taht suddenly died from the Hunta Virus? (carried by a mouse.) nasty. anyway............ mites are in your pillows. cockroaches if not in the home are in the woods. (look under tree bark some time.) fleas on pets and mice. pesky flies in the house. Is that why there is a flu every year? always apearing unstoppable? You can try to fight it but you also have to be lucky too. some of what phyrefly talks about i think is that you have to link the vectors (possible tranmission carriers/ to infections) to study the spread and its relationship before you can cure. Maybe we just vaccinate the ticks? or we're so worried about birds and here comes your dog with a flea carring desiease. So vaccinate fleas so they can't give it to us. Maybe antibacterial fly stips that attract and clean thier little feet when they land somewhere. may sound dumb btu you will always have these pest. We are all becoming more enlightened. We are all superceeding our learning curve about Flu. Flu has been and is every where. transmitted and spread by every thing. To stop the spread find the vectors (carriers / transmission points) and cure that. Hell%$^&*$? I don't know. What I do feel in my gut is ......Suschian Sheet(SP) if vectored by all these different animals and insects and as deadly to many living things....... it sound like somebodys biological experiment in China got out of the test tube. Germ Warfare experiment gone bad. Not that that hasn't happened before. That's their real reason for Chinas cover up. It had to happen eventually. Well enought for now... I gotta go take my meds after reading phyrefly's post.
Edited by Corn |
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meewee
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Corn I love it! But Really If what you are saying is that the reality of the flu that the WHO is not focusing on is the transmission factor of fleas, mites and ticks. Why not say that verses Latin or complex medical or scientific terminology? I Can agree with that, it only follows logical thought that these are unlooked at as vectors of conveyence along with migratorial patterns of the hosts...I.E. the birds that carry them. It would also follow logical thouth that those parasites would repesented the greater threat of infection verses the bird itself. But why not type it out that way verses those of us who have an idea or inclination to run for the medical dictionary or the websters to find out what planetary systems this language is coming from verses simple language that everyone can understand? Now is not the time for this, instead everything must be gear and written in the most simplistic terms that even scanning it that all can get the gist at a glance or quick scan. I sure hope I don't alienate all of you because of this. Because I really and truly feel that what phyrefly has to convey is really important for everyone not just those up on their Latin or medical terminology. Meewee
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God Bless us all!
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I would wonder if Cupcake didn't perhaps hit it on the head. Phyrfly is desperately trying to communicate with us ( and we are trying to understand) but there may be an underlying pathology.
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Corn
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I will get my aluminum hat out and try to understand, I am sleeping tonight with my head pointing north. If you don't ever hear from me again that the aliens got me.
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Maybe MaryKay and I should try that
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meewee
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MEE too!...I am desperately trying to understand this!!! Somebody help!! Meewee |
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God Bless us all!
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phyrefly
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1) No s**t, I'm not monkeying around. 2) Theft or toying of information from Pubmed National Library of Medicine is occurring 3) It is not known what the source of this tampering is. 4) National news yesterday on tv and on Yahoo were pushing bedbug epidemic in New York. 5) Now the S / AI X.27 message is available at Acarology to read 6) The transmission of the message S / AI X.27 at Acarology was being tampered with yesterday.It was being witheld by some source out of the control of the sender (me). 7) Bedbugs may have nothing to do with bird flu, yet simultaneously messages that do have to do with bird flu are being tampered with by someone hiding within the network. What reader here understands 2) or 6)? If any reader here understands 6), prove it to the rest of us by explaining what it means in a message posted to this thread. I'm in direct competition with Miss America right now: her aspirations are to be a teacher. |
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Magpie Treads the Branch
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OK, Phyrfly, you just lost me as a sympathetic student. I don't have to PROVE squat to you or any one else walking in a mortal guise. Anyone choosing the role of teacher must have students to teach. Otherwise your choice was made in deceit and disingenuousness. And if you don't want to teach us (help us understand) perhaps your posts would be more suited to a more intelligent audience. quote: What reader here understands 2) or 6)? If any reader here understands 6), prove it to the rest of us by explaining what it means in a message posted to this thread. I'm in direct competition with Miss America right now: her aspirations are to be a teacher. |
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phyrefly
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Ok sopiezoe, you have just lost me as someone who considers you amongst those who give a damn. If your cringing desire to be subjective rather than objective is showing through, it may mean that you don't have the courage to write your answer to any of the questions, your argument is a red herring: no you don't have to. Perhaps the introduction of money would help. In three dimensions ('not on Internet'), go out onto the street and ask a stranger to read what is being posted here (on Internet). Tell them that you will pay them some moneyto do this. Ask them if they can answer these questions: 1) Do you know what S / AI X.27 is? Answer: ----------- 2) Do you know where it is? Answer: ------------ |
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Magpie Treads the Branch
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Please everyone, stop. We are all friends here. |
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Thanks for the reminder. I guess I needed it.
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No worries. The bird flu has us all on edge. It is likely that stress for each of us will increase as the situation worsens, but we are all so lucky that we have such a great group of people here for support! Everyone here is so terrific! :)
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AuntBones
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Phyffly , is this what you are saying?Viruses are masters of mutating rapidly often grabbing genctic material of other viruses. They can jump from animal to human with a quick flick of their DNA. Viruses can also make the jump to humans directly .At times such as West Nile , the transfer occurs though a intermediate host like a mosquito.Your saying a mite?? Now ...more info on S/AI x.27.
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Corn
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phyrefly talks in code. He could be somebody like deep throat informer from the watergate hearings. phyrefly Maybe he talks in code in his post . Should we try to hack it? Who is he? an insider trying to speak out undercover? I will were my reynolds wrap hair piece again tonight and try to discern more. maybe take one of his post and pull a pattern of words for the hidden message. Who are you phyrefly? How can we help promote what you are discussing better? I'm still betting on the bio warfare experiment gone wild in China. Edited by Corn |
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wannago
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I'll hold my hand up to answer Phyrefly's question #1 re S/A1 x .27
A: No I don't know, would like to know, am new to this forum and to quote an infamous Aussie politician "please explain". Thanks |
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CupcakeMom
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Phyrefly posts at a 'Yahoo! Groups' site on acarology. He always 'numbers' his messages using his own quirky system. "S / AI X.27" is the number of his message posted today (see below): His name is Charles Hubaker, as per his public note on this site. If you google his name you get lots of posts to other websites, too. I'm clueless as to what your message "means" phyrefly...
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Corn
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acarology at Yahoo! Groups
Thu, 12 Jan 2006 09:33:54 GMT charles hubaker ... Here, Swifts (Apus) are Wed, 11 Jan 2006 08:43:33 GMT charles hubaker ... http://rss.groups.yahoo.com/group/acarology/rssBrama, Gateway Ukraine Forum
Re: Response and Summary to Russia and Ukraine - Charles Hubaker ... Difference is Obvious: A Great Debating Tool - Charles Hubaker 23:26:34 08/13/04 (0) ... http://www.brama.com/survey/npbb117.htmlRe: race and reason
Posted by Charles Hubaker on August 16, 2004 at 01:46:39: ... Regards, : Charles Hubaker : : I am really surprised and frankly saddened, by the animosity ... http://www.brama.com/survey/messages/28626.htmlacarology : acarology
charles hubaker solntsepyati Offline Offline Send Email Send Email · S / AI X.9. Times Mail Online, Dec 27, 2005 Ending Complacency About The Flu 'One has ... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/acarology/microbiology : Messages : 2401-2500 of 3487
On April 22, 1915 at Ypres, the horror of war gas erupted on the battlefield of... charles hubaker solntsepyati Offline Send Email, Oct 30, 2004 ... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/microbiology/messages/2401?vis count=100 |
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Concerned
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This was the last (in this thread) that I find clear: Fowl plague (general term) judging by symptoms of the animal you cannot distinguish right away between Bird Flu Yersinia pseudotuberculosis Just like you cannot always easily and on the spot decide is it a common cold or influenza like illness or influenza, let alone influenza and bird flu you can speculate Bird Flu or Yersinia pseudotuberculosis. When tests are done it is either or and one speculator wins. Wether one is virus or bacteria does not influence the symptoms very much - only therapy options. He/She tried to say that there might be a reason why something is misdiagnosed. What gets my bewilderment: 30% of his statements are crystal clear, bright mind 30% is half correct mixed with nonsense. Rest is not meaning anything unless you know the code (what code huuuhh??). Strange somewhat. |
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