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Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

Immune system questions
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amyjo View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 25 2006 at 9:59am

I have been researching the whole cytokine storm issue and how AI attacks those with healthy immue systems more.  OK, I have hypothyroidism to start with which directly affects the immune system.  I have also been bitten by a brown recluse spider, about 18 years ago.  It's venom is still stored in my lymph glands and whenever I get a major illness, the bite swells up again like it happened yesterday due to apparently, my lymphs releasing toxins in order to fight the new attack.  I know this because I have had major battles with streptococcal pneuminaie (sp), which kept recurring for eight months because it would mutate and become immune to the medication I would take.  I also came down with mono as an adult and subsequently now hav chronic (although I believe latent now) Epstein-Barr.  Some of the articles I have read say that EB is a form of cytokine storm as well, if this is the case, when it was active it was a b***h. 

 

Now, anyone with medical expertise out there, would this possibly make me less susceptible? 

 

As a side line, I nursed my son throughout a lot of this, so would any of it be passed along to him? 

aj
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koolsteve View Drop Down
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Points: 138 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koolsteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2006 at 5:23pm
if  any of the germs  were related to the bf, then yes.
ninjas rule
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2006 at 6:00pm
koolsteve, amyjo SPECIFICALLY asked for advice from any medical experts willing to respond.  Are you related to Doogie Howser?
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amyjo View Drop Down
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Points: 34 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amyjo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2006 at 9:30pm
Hey guys!  I appreciate Steve's enthusiasm.  Thank you for your input Steve.  I would, however care to hear from anyone even with an opinion on this that may be somewhat more educated than I.  I am a "wierdo"in the regard that I have done medical research on my own for years as a hobby (does that make me a nerd?)  You should see my antique books on surgery (eek).  I have always tried to make my own correlations between current AMA standards and anything from ancient to/and natural based methods.  Hmmm, too bad I went to college for social work (and did a 15 year stint as a practicing professional ending with my own private practice) and now work retail and model.   Life is interesting like that.   I like to say I am a survivalist and will do whatever it takes to pay the rent.  Don't see too much future in modeling during/after bf but hey ya never know maybe I look good in a mask, LOL!   I'm no spring chicken ya know, (oh lord), ok done now heehee.  I would be interested to hear any hypothesis, etc however and thanks for responding Steve.
aj
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amyjo View Drop Down
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Points: 34 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amyjo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2006 at 9:31pm
And thanks SophiaZoe!  (:
aj
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jackson View Drop Down
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Points: 411 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2006 at 10:05pm
AmyJo,
I don't know if this will help or not.  I had a friend (a few  years ago) who was diagnosed with something called Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. Some of her symptoms sounded similar to some of yours. SHe was initally diagnosed with hypothyroidism , but she also had a chronic illnesses-- one of which was  repeated episodes of mono (epstein-barr virus). I don't ever recall her having pneumonia, but I know she had frequent viral illnesses. She also had other symptoms that you didnt' mention--- a feeling of muscle aches, weakness, and a sensitivity to allergens (like cigarette smoke or even strong perfumes).
I dont' know what tests your doctors have done so far and I know there is not specific test for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (some doctors still think it's not a "real" disorder"), but I was wondering if anyone has ever discussed this with you?


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amyjo View Drop Down
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Points: 34 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amyjo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2006 at 10:19pm
Hey Jackson, thanks!  Ya, I do have allergies but have maintained them and recovered from a lot by following the lifestyle that I do.  When I was really sick and a single parent of a two year old that I was nursing and working a full time job and four part time jobs and attending University full time (this is when I became ill) I was told by my Dr. that if I didn't slow down I would end up with Chronic Fatgue and they threatened to hospitalize me, which would have been MORE incapacitating for me as a signle parent, so I listened.   I empathize for your friend ):  Thank you for your input!
aj
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Ella Fitzgerald View Drop Down
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Points: 586 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ella Fitzgerald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2006 at 8:22am

I've read somewhere (sorry I can't give remember the source) that the reason the young are most affected by the BF is because of their healthy immune systems. The young immune system attacks the virus very aggressively and therefore creates excessive mucous and fluid to fight it therefore resulting in pnemonia and/or fluid in the lungs.

From what I read, it is better to have a compromised immune system to a certain extent so that your body will fight it but not to a point to lead to an excess of fluid in the lungs.

I too have auto immune diseases in my family. My daughter has celiac sprue, my mom has arthritis, my cousin has scleroderma, my son has exzema and I have premature menopause. All these are auto immune diseases so I wonder if that will help us or hurt us.

I sure would like to get clarification on exactly how our bodys react to the virus via our immune system.

 
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amyjo View Drop Down
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Points: 34 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amyjo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2006 at 5:51pm
Hey Ella!  Thanks and I guess I forgot to mention I also am in premature menopause , so I can relate.  I'm a mess huh?  LOL so nice to hear from you and I am still wondering too.
aj
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2006 at 6:07pm
Posted: 25 January 2006 at 9:59am | IP Logged

"I have been researching the whole cytokine storm issue and how AI
attacks those with healthy immue systems more.

Now, anyone with medical expertise out there, would this possibly make
me less susceptible? "

aj
-------------------

There are many intelligent people working on that very question. I would
expect that there will be useful information posted, here in the future
and elsewhere, but you need to do your homework in order to make an
informed decision. Be patient.

Keep monitoring this and other sites. If there are any therapeutic entities
identified, I would expect that they would not be contraindicated in
anyone with a pre-existing autoimmune disorder.

I can't speak to "hypothyroidism".

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2006 at 9:31am

how does this relate to allergires

Iknow that sounds stupid but I was wondering if the two are related

in some way meaning does someone with alot of alergies be moresuspeptable to a reaction fromthe flu
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2006 at 5:51pm

This is my understanding. It's just an opinion.

The concern with the Avian Flu is that, it will trigger an out of control
response with your immune system (cytokine storm/extreme response) ,
- like a car radiator overflowing. An allergy is an immune response (to a
specific antigen/substance), but relatively minor, usually.

Folks with an autoimmune disorder (in which the body's own immune
system attacks its own tissue as foreign matter), are of greatest concern
for fears that the virus would send an autoimmune disease into overdrive.

I can't address your specific risks, but I would rather deal with allergies
than an autoimmune disorder.

People with diseases that are associated with an overactive immune
response, such as Lupus, Chrohns, Rheumatoid arthritis, possibly
Asthma, might be at some additional risk since these autoimmune
diseases make their bodies over react. Unlike a regular virus, H5N1 is
able to move outside the lungs and to most of the major organs and
continue doing damage.

Don't jump to any conclusions, there is alot to be learned as the virus
evolves. What is is true today may change in the future as more is
learned.

There is evidence that the virus tends to attack younger people and that
their immune systems might be at greater risk. That seemed to be the
case in Turkey. Iraq will tell us more. I hope this makes some sense.




Edited by Rick
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2006 at 11:32pm
Originally posted by amyjo amyjo wrote:

Now, anyone with medical expertise out there, would this possibly make me less susceptible? 



For what it's worth, on principle relating to your retained spider toxin and CF, investigate Ritchie Shoemaker, MD, chronic neurtoxin protocol.   I think he has a web page.  Come to your own conclusions.  The test and protocol are simple and the treatment is simple and either works or not, in a 4-6 week period.  I could get into a lot of detail supporting my reasons, but that wouldn't be appropriate here - suffice it to say that I've seen people with objective evidence to support the therapy as well as my own personal experience.   It won't help you with the BF, other than you'll be less generally compromised, but it may help overall.
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chipswell View Drop Down
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Points: 2 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chipswell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2006 at 6:55am
Check out Genomed  @ Genomed.com. Dr. Moskovitz has therapies for a lot. He also claims to have a "cure"/treatment for bird flu and other viruses.
live long and prosper
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cisco View Drop Down
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Points: 57 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cisco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2006 at 6:03pm

from what i understand, there is no cure for the bird flu.  i don't know about you, but i have seen all kinds of advertisements from companies with all kinds of claims pertaining to cures and treatment of bird flu.

i have lyme disease and have had it for over 7 years.  i can tell you that over the years, and especially during the first 2 years, i was desparate and i was trying anything i could to try to feel better.  none of them worked and i spent a ton on money.

i think we need to be careful because there are plenty of people/organizations out there that i am sure would love to cash in on the current bf crisis.  there's a lot of $$$ to be made!

cisco
let's hang tight, tough, and together!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2006 at 8:09pm
Originally posted by cisco cisco wrote:

i have lyme disease and have had it for over 7 years.  i can tell you that over the years, and especially during the first 2 years, i was desparate and i was trying anything i could to try to feel better.  none of them worked and i spent a ton on money.

Cisco,

I totally understand: I was on nonstop antibiotics for over 5 years for Lyme and my wife was on IV three times - plus post lyme neurotoxin issues. Currently we are both in what I like to phrase as "remission" since "cure" seems inappropriate as we can never go very long (over a year) periods without some period of retreatment.  Good luck to you. 

 
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