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PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
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Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

A report from the front lines

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    Posted: June 10 2006 at 1:31pm
I hope this is okay to post: The following is taken from a thread on fluwiki, these are remarks by Dr Andrew Jeremijenko, until the end of last month he was the head of NAMRU-2. These are remarks in response to a discussion on H5N1 Receptor Binding Domain Discrepency.

10 June 2006

Andrew Jeremijenko – at 02:47

In response to NS1 my plan when I came overseas was to be here for only 3 months. After 8 years in Asia I am ready to go home. I should not be commenting on the pandemic virus. It is surreal. I am a medical doctor with a Masters of Epidemiology degree. There should be a Professor here with multiple publications on influenza making comments. The truth is apart from the authors from NAMRU2 and their collaborators, there are virtually no scientists here who have published about influenza in Indonesia. This is a reflection of current level of skill on the ground. It needs to be improved. We need these influenza experts to do the studies that have been suggested on Fluwikie and the scientists need to be funded and given the freedom to do those studies and not be obstructed. This is an urgent situation.

Dr Nidom’s hypothesis about asymptomatic cases in humans does need to be studied, I think it unlikely but it should be proven. There have certainly been a number of mild cases found during investigations, and it is quite possible we may have missed mild cases. With 2000 deaths a day from acute respiratory infections we could be missing many severe cases as well. These questions need to be researched.

It is important to look at the bigger picture some time. The health statistics of Indonesia show Indonesia has performed poorly in areas such as infant mortality rate when compared to its neighbours like Thailand, Malaysia and Singapore. If you read the WHO health report 2000, health care systems, or WHO health report 2006, working together for health you can see that the health system is poorly resourced and understaffed.If you read these reports you will also realize the depth of problems in places like Africa.

I sometimes feel if millions of deaths from TB, malaria and other infectious diseases hasn’t made them change their policies why would bird flu. Indonesia continues to lock out foreign doctors and hence many wealthy people travel overseas for medical care. Even after a disaster like the tsunami they got rid of all the foreign medical teams within 3 months, 26/3/05 - 2 days before a second large earthquake occurred in Nias 28/3/05. Now they are calling for the foreigners to leave Jogja, even as the Merapi volcano gets ready to explode.

I believe the medical closed door policy is an attempt by rich doctors to protect their own market (mainly in Jakarta). This is in stark contrast to the rest of the world that are importing doctors from all over the world to help with health. Indonesia has ignored its own people cry for health care. If Indonesia opened its doors today, I believe doctors would chose other countries. They have set their country back years in health care because of their policies. They get offended when foreign doctors and scientists feel the urge to tell them the system needs to be improved.

A number of people in Indonesia are upset about my comments in the Nature article http://declanbutler.info/blog/?p=41. All I am pointing out as WHO does in their reports is that the systems here are not good and it will be difficult to contain a pandemic, but that we must try.

I do not think that the pandemic virus is here, but Indonesia is not handling this bird flu situation effectively and the proof is in the continuing human cases. They are not controlling the disease in birds and they are getting more human clusters and larger clusters such as the one in Medan. Unlike other countries that jump on the problem and fix it eg Turkey and even ones that have taken longer to control the disease like Vietnam and Thailand, Indonesia puts on a media face tries to calm people down and does not address the underlying problems.

The problems continue A. They have been ineffective at controlling the disease in birds and in treating and investigating the human cases. They have the highest rate of new cases in the world and the worst death rate. In comparison to other countries Indonesia should be chastised for its poor efforts. B. Their investigations are failing to identify the cause. They are so delayed that the virus has often disappeared from the environment. The are disjointed, ineffective and not available for peer or public review. There have been 50 cases and no virus betwen humans and animals has ben matched except maybe the cat in Indramayu and a bird from 2 years before in Medan. C. The delays in investigation have onflow effect - slow diagnosis, poor treatment, poor infection control and high case fatality rates. D. They were unable to demonstrate an ability to contain the virus in this last cluster, with many patients being discharged or absconding to cough all over the commmunity and later coming back to the hospital to die. E. They continue to delay and obstruct international investigators from doing their job. The onset of first case was 25th April but the CDC investigator did not get invited up to investigate this cluster until 16th May. They continue not to invite NAMRU2 on investigations F. Their surveillance is limited. There are 2000 deaths a day from pneumonia and 300 deaths a day from TB. Most of these deaths are in people who have been exposed to chickens. With the virus endemic in Indonesia basically all of these should be suspect cases. Very few are tested, I don’t think we have ever tested more then 10 suspect H5N1 cases a day. There are a number of family clusters I am aware of that have never been tested or where only one person was tested. Only limited testing in large cities like Surabaya, Medan, Bandung and Jakarta occurs. We know we are missing cases especially in rural areas. We don’t know how many. G. To date there has still been no autopsies. Many suspect cases that I think were human H5N1 cases, were not able to be diagnosed as we could not get lung samples from the patients. Because of cultural and religious beliefs people/officials do not push for this despite potential to confirm diagnosis and the importance of knowing the pathology in human cases. H. Sampling is inadequate. Many people die before samples are taken especially in remote areas. We don’t know how long people are infectious in Indonesia because if they do sample they don’t follow protocols such as serial sampling, e.g. sample every second day for 2 weeks. We do not yet know if the infectious period is 5 days or 14 days or longer. Once the diagnosis is made it is rare for sampling to continue and with the high fatality rate in the hospitals many die, so we only know they were probably infectious until death. To my knowledge few stool tests to see if the virus is excreted in the stools have been done. If you asked me if virus is excreted in the stool, my answer is I don’t know. I. Do pigs or cats play a role in infection. As no systematic surveillance has been done in other animals, once again we don’t know. J. The chance for a pandemic mutation in the virus in Indonesia continues to be high as they continue to have the most cases and most deaths this year. There are a lot of things that we don’t know.

I do not think there is need to panic, but there is need to encourage improvements. I have lived in Indonesia for a long time, if people keep smoothing it over, then nothing gets done here. There has to be a lot of upset and urgency before Indonesia actually gets it off the we’ll get to that eventually list. I understand they have a host of problems to deal with, but this one is not one that we should allow them to ignore.

If the international and national outrage at the poor management of bird flu is not expressed, we will find that this disease will continue on its path in Indonesia towards a pandemic virus and control measures proven to be effective in other countries will not be implemented. All the best Andrew

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speechless. thank you for the post.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2006 at 2:04pm
that just confirmed my suspisions...
 
that and the guy sucking mucus out of his birds beaks...
 
what a country...............
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2006 at 2:06pm
Ditto Ruth! Thank you Rodin. There is no question this needs to be posted. It also needs to be seen by everyone!! I am going to try to find a way to get this to some of the nation's newspapers. Everyone has to wake up and smell the "bird flu = doo"!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2006 at 2:23pm
Be careful before you alert the media. I would get permission first.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2006 at 2:36pm
Thanks Ruth, I am afraid that is one of my worst faults, leaping into something without thinking it through. I will do that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jhetta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2006 at 2:56pm
Dr Dr Andrew Jeremijenko, frequently is cited in Nature and Science... he has given multiple interviews and has recieved some heat for it.
 
Here is one I have posted in another thread... it has audio as well as text.. and is worth listening to.
 
 
More
 
 
[PDF] 6.4 News 726-727 MH
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
2006 Nature Publishing Group
 
SciDev.Net
Source: Nature. This year has seen the H5N1 bird flu virus spread ... Disease researcher Andrew Jeremijenko describes how Indonesia has become a bird flu ...
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Jhetta, can you repost the report on the  SciDev.Net ? When I click on the link I get a page cannot be displayed. I have wanted to read that article, but have been unable to get to a site that allows me in.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jhetta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2006 at 3:17pm
Bird flu: one virus, many challenges
*
*Checking poultry samples for H5N1 in Thailand
6 April 2006
Source: Nature

This year has seen the H5N1 bird flu virus spread further and faster than ever before. In this article in Nature, Declan Butler interviews researchers in some of the countries affected.

Disease researcher Andrew Jeremijenko describes how Indonesia has become a bird flu hotspot, and says delays in detecting and reporting the disease remain a problem.

Les Sims, a consultant for the UN Food and Agriculture Organization, says Thailand's innovative door-to-door monitoring programme has done much to help control outbreaks there.

According to virologist Shahid Jameel, two major problems in India are a lack of public communication, and a lack of laboratories to detect infections.

Nigeria is also short of detection facilities, with only one diagnostic laboratory, says Claude Muller of the World Health Organization. He argues that poultry farming is so important in Africa that vaccinating flocks is the only way forward.

But virologist Guan Yi points out that this approach has led to problems of its own in China, where poultry are still shedding the virus in markets despite the country's extensive vaccination campaigns.

Link to full article in Nature  Subscription


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pugmom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2006 at 3:23pm
It makes you want to throw a barricade up to completely encircle the country and let them duke it out themselves.  But, no, really, they are inadvertently creating a kind of biological terrorism.  There are means other countries could use to garner cooperation, such as, sanctions, stoppage of all air flights, humiliation at the UN, pulling out all foreign mercy missions, etc.  Of course, none of these things will be used by other countries, and of course, this bug is incubating and it WILL explode out of that country.  Then, all the other countries will say "If we had only........"   PS--thanx so much for letting us see this article.
jpc
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Thank you Jhetta
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There are 2000 deaths a day from pneumonia and 300 deaths a day from TB. Most of these deaths are in people who have been exposed to chickens. With the virus endemic in Indonesia basically all of these should be suspect cases. Very few are tested, I don’t think we have ever tested more then 10 suspect H5N1 cases a day. There are a number of family clusters I am aware of that have never been tested or where only one person was tested. Only limited testing in large cities like Surabaya, Medan, Bandung and Jakarta occurs. We know we are missing cases especially in rural areas. We don’t know how many. G. To date there has still been no autopsies. Many suspect cases that I think were human H5N1 cases, were not able to be diagnosed as we could not get lung samples from the patients.
 
It seems like a pandemic may have already started here. According to this there is no accuracy in reporting. Indo had better start BEING HONEST about what is happening there as it will effect all countries in the world.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2006 at 8:07pm
Pony girl,
that 2000 a day struck me pretty hard too. Of course most likely not all of the 2000 a day are H5, but a good percent of them, maybe. I wonder what the statistics were for respiratory infections in Indonesia prior to 2003? 2000 a day is 56,000 a month. That's a frightening number to me. I'm guessing Dr Jeremijenko may not have made that statement with the idea that his numbers might be scrutinized, it may have been the emotional impact taking it's toll. Then again he is a very smart man, so maybe he did make it knowing it would be scrutinized.
I wish we knew for certain about those figures, and previous stats. Anyone know how to obtain that kind of information?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2006 at 8:36pm
Yet if there were 2000 a day and it was really contagious, my guess is that it would have spread beyond indonesia by now. Perhaps many are bird flu, but is it h2h2h2h2? We need to watch for a large outbreak elsewhere.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2006 at 11:24pm
The Dr. has been living there for eight years he states. I believe the deaths per day, are not a new thing, but a result of TB and Malaria and other illness that unless tested properly can not be distinguished between that illness and bf. I made a un PC comment before and I stand by it. This is a third world country, with third world hospitals, and sanitation. They live with chickens, animals of all variities roam the homes and streets. They dont have warm water, they do not clean their bodies on a regular basis. They dont have the things we do in developed countries. Therefore their death rates will be higher, infection rates will be higher. Yes, they can start the pandemic. However I look to developed countries having a better outcome, due to the modern things we have. The fact that they refuse to believe they have a problem says a lot too. They are used to death and wierd things like this, it is not sending up a warning flag to them as it would if it were something unusual they are used to this type of death. I think that the Dr. is correct, we still have time. Time to prep more and time to get the PC out of things, this is life and death, we can not let the entire world go up, because someone dosent want to have a autopsy preformed, or because they refuse to go to hospitals or seek proper treatement. They are sending help home. Should the whole world pay for that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2006 at 6:17am
vstr, I think you're right, I think we do have a little more time. How much time is what everyone wants to know. This is the first time that we've (epidemiologists and the like) have been able to study up close an emerging strain of high path influenza. One thing most everyone agrees on is that everytime this virus passes through a human host it comes a little closer to becoming a strain that will pass easily and efficiantly from human to human. With the situation in Indonesia, the virus probably has better odds of achieving just that. 
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