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PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
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Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic since 2005; Coronavirus COVID-19 Pandemic Discussion Forum.

Giving up on the pandemic

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    Posted: June 07 2020 at 4:19pm

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/06/america-giving-up-on-pandemic/


America Is Giving Up on the Pandemic

Businesses are reopening. Protests are erupting nationwide. But the virus isn’t done with us.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2020 at 4:55pm






News cycle.....

Bored with that old virus news.......stuff....

Only until people start getting sick and die.......

Very interesting to watch.....



Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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That will change, Carbon.  A few states are already burning with another dozen or so on the brink.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2020 at 9:00pm

Why wouldn't people give up on it? In my state it's still illegal for more than 50 people to gather, yet for the last week thousands have been gathering and protesting and the Governor encouraging it and does nothing about it. Hardly puts out the message that social distancing is necessary or that the social distancing requirements as law are to be followed.  Guarantee this type stay at home order will not be allowed or followed again regardless of what the Governor says.

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Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

That will change, Carbon.  A few states are already burning with another dozen or so on the brink.

I agree, we live in Arizona, which barely adhered to the shutdown (there were a lot of cheaters), and our Republican Gov. Ducey could not wait to throw the doors open again. 

We are regularly listed as one of the states with the fastest rise in cases.  

This should be interesting, stay tuned. 

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Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Guarantee this type stay at home order will not be allowed or followed again regardless of what the Governor says.


That's sad, AI.  Because I think it will come to that.  Stay safe.

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Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

That will change, Carbon.  A few states are already burning with another dozen or so on the brink.

I agree, we live in Arizona, which barely adhered to the shutdown (there were a lot of cheaters), and our Republican Gov. Ducey could not wait to throw the doors open again. 

We are regularly listed as one of the states with the fastest rise in cases.  

This should be interesting, stay tuned. 

I thank my lucky stars every day that I live in NY.  NYC just started our phase 1 opening yesterday.  Like it or not, we've been warned phase 2 might not happen until sometime in July.  It depends what the infection rate does with all these protests that seem to just keep getting larger.  15 free testing sites have been designated for protesters and it has been requested that they get tested, not just once, but as often as practical (once a week).


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Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Guarantee this type stay at home order will not be allowed or followed again regardless of what the Governor says.


That's sad, AI.  Because I think it will come to that.  Stay safe.

What sad is the fact that people who adhered to the stay at home and followed social distancing requirements will the ones who pay for those protesters not following the law. What's sad is the fact the governor of this state didn't have the balls to say "hey folks I can understand your anger and the reasons behind it and you have every right to protest but we are in the middle of a pandemic and now is not the time, it could cause loss of life and a further spread of the virus."  Instead he pandered to them and encouraged them while telling everyone he has the authority to keep the state in lock down due to the virus and yet not once did he tell the protesters to go home because you know the state is in a health emergency and their actions could actually cause more deaths.  You can't fix stupid but I see lot's trying to justify it. Maybe stupid is the new normal.

In short he put politics ahead of peoples health and safety and ignored his own laws. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2020 at 2:01pm

Agreed.  Needed,   BUT NOT NOW!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thorne! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2020 at 2:18pm

Well worth the time to read the not-to-long article.

Now, a Seattle researcher behind early genomic analysis of the coronavirus says that daily deaths in the United States could more than double - adding between 200 and 900 deaths per day for each day of protests involving at least 600,000 people, according to Hot Air.

Trevor Bedford is the Seattle researcher who used genomic analysis early on in the pandemic to detect hidden community spread in Seattle, the first big clue that America had a more significant COVID-19 problem than it realized. He’s watching the mass demonstrations against police brutality this week with growing concern, knowing that from an epidemiological standpoint the “mass” part is all that matters. The virus won’t make exceptions in the name of progress."


https://www.zerohedge.com/health/additional-1100-daily-covid-19-deaths-predicted-depending-size-floyd-protests

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Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

What sad is the fact that people who adhered to the stay at home and followed social distancing requirements will the ones who pay for those protesters not following the law. What's sad is the fact the governor of this state didn't have the balls to say "hey folks I can understand your anger and the reasons behind it and you have every right to protest but we are in the middle of a pandemic and now is not the time, it could cause loss of life and a further spread of the virus."  Instead he pandered to them and encouraged them while telling everyone he has the authority to keep the state in lock down due to the virus and yet not once did he tell the protesters to go home because you know the state is in a health emergency and their actions could actually cause more deaths.  You can't fix stupid but I see lot's trying to justify it. Maybe stupid is the new normal.

In short he put politics ahead of peoples health and safety and ignored his own laws. 

Don't know what state you're in, AI, but I think the Governor of Michigan tried that line with the protesters who stormed the capitol.  Didn't work, did it?

And you're right... maybe stupid is the new normal. But protests started long before this one. This one's just bigger. Way bigger. I don't know about other states, but NY infection rate is still going down two weeks into these protests.   I guess it really is all about the mask.

That being said, I just want to remind you of something I said some time ago that you laughed at.  You're going to be surprised how many democrats/liberals/progressives there are compared to conservatives come the General Election.  I think this may just be the first indication.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2020 at 4:17pm

Forgive me for being wrong if I Am 

But did chump win the last election on the people's vote? 

Or did Hillary win by more than 2.5 million votes

And then the electoral collage votes chump in 

Something I didnt quite understand.

What is the electoral collage and why so much influence.

Just asking, I could google it but would like one of you Yanks to enlighten me

Cheers...😎




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2020 at 4:58pm

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

What sad is the fact that people who adhered to the stay at home and followed social distancing requirements will the ones who pay for those protesters not following the law. What's sad is the fact the governor of this state didn't have the balls to say "hey folks I can understand your anger and the reasons behind it and you have every right to protest but we are in the middle of a pandemic and now is not the time, it could cause loss of life and a further spread of the virus."  Instead he pandered to them and encouraged them while telling everyone he has the authority to keep the state in lock down due to the virus and yet not once did he tell the protesters to go home because you know the state is in a health emergency and their actions could actually cause more deaths.  You can't fix stupid but I see lot's trying to justify it. Maybe stupid is the new normal.

In short he put politics ahead of peoples health and safety and ignored his own laws. 

Don't know what state you're in, AI, but I think the Governor of Michigan tried that line with the protesters who stormed the capitol.  Didn't work, did it?

And you're right... maybe stupid is the new normal. But protests started long before this one. This one's just bigger. Way bigger. I don't know about other states, but NY infection rate is still going down two weeks into these protests. I guess it really is all about the mask.

That being said, I just want to remind you of something I said some time ago that you laughed at.  You're going to be surprised how many democrats/liberals/progressives there are compared to conservatives come the General Election.  I think this may just be the first indication.  

Nah this is just business as usual in WA especially in Seattle and is just an indication the Governor is a weak idiot. And cabin fever is a very real thing and all this is clearly indicative of it. Virus case counts go up as a result there will be no sympathy for those who protested.  I'm going to withhold any political commentary least it devolve the thread as that is not what this thread is about.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2020 at 5:04pm

Wise move AI...lol

I Just hold my head in hands and wonder WTF

I see the need for protests,

But I worry for America.....

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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Originally posted by carbon20 carbon20 wrote:

Wise move AI...lol

I Just hold my head in hands and wonder WTF

I see the need for protests,

But I worry for America.....

Well this is nothing much compared to past events in US history, the 60's comes to mind. This isn't even close to that and the US is still here and will be, don't worry too much, stress lowers your immune system.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Usk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2020 at 3:03am

Once again I agree with ☝️ In regards to your question about our system of how popular vote doesn’t win elections. Our founding fathers wisely did not want certain higher populations of states to have more sway in who runs the United States. Key word United. Virginia is a perfect example. The northern section section with the significantly larger population is vastly liberal to socialism. The Southern part with exception of UVA area is the total opposite to the point of libertarian. However each population center elects and has just one person who represents them that are part of the “College” This allows for equal votes from around the state and not just the la rger population to the North have greater voice. Let me know if I got this right. This same thing is applied to every state

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2020 at 3:10am

cheers

It's called proportional representation here, 

So the country folks get an equal say.....to city folks, 

But what is  relevent in the Bush is not nesssarly relevant in the Cities......thats here I'm sure it would be the same there

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It was once true that more of the population lived in the country rather than cities, but that is no longer the case.  I'd also like to point out States' Rights in terms of country people having a vote, rather than Federal.  "Country folk" are much more impacted by things that are governed by their State rather than the Federal level. There was also the issue of the intent to invite people to populate our country in the time of the Founding Fathers.  Most of those people would be uneducated and wouldn't be able to read and write English.  

On the whole I do believe we need to be rid of the electoral college.  If not, then we need to get rid of gerry-mandering and this nonsense of disallowing certain people to vote for whatever reason.  Just like every single American has a social security number, every single American over the age of 18 should have the right to vote without having to provide some obscure piece of identification with photo registered with the feds... yadda yadda yadda.  A social security number is enough and easier to check for multiple voting.  

Either way I'm fine... it just needs to be one or the other.  

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Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

It was once true that more of the population lived in the country rather than cities, but that is no longer the case.  I'd also like to point out States' Rights in terms of country people having a vote, rather than Federal.  "Country folk" are much more impacted by things that are governed by their State rather than the Federal level.


Care to expand on that and provide several examples? And is it your contention that citizens who live outside the cities should have no voice in federal elections? 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2020 at 2:12pm

Two anomalies of the E!ectoral College system are that in some states, you have a "winner takes all" of the electoral votes, whereas, other states split them proportionally.  The other problem is that just because an elector is pledged to a candidate, does not mean they actually cede their votes to that candidate.  Nothing binding requires them to do so.  Silly.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2020 at 3:07pm

Well if you don't like the electoral college then you can change it via constitutional amendment. One requires a 2/3 approval vote of both houses of Congress and then a 3/4 approval vote by the states. The other a national convention called by 2/3rd's of the states and requiring a 3/4 approval vote by the states.

Good luck with that it was designed hard to do for a good reason and that was to ensure the US remained a Constitutional Democratic Republic. 


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Maybe you should push to get people to move from the cities,

I know that's what we need to do here,

Governments need to decentralised.......

And spread the wealth.....

To all citizens

And one person one vote,apart from people in prision.....

It does perplexe me when I see how your voter registration works....

It seems weighted against certain peoples.......

And I really don't like computer votes....easily rigged

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Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

It was once true that more of the population lived in the country rather than cities, but that is no longer the case.  I'd also like to point out States' Rights in terms of country people having a vote, rather than Federal.  "Country folk" are much more impacted by things that are governed by their State rather than the Federal level. 


Care to expand on that and provide several examples? And is it your contention that citizens who live outside the cities should have no voice in federal elections? 



No.  I said what I had to say in my post in its entirety.  

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Originally posted by carbon20 carbon20 wrote:





Maybe you should push to get people to move from the cities,

I know that's what we need to do here,

Governments need to decentralised.......

And spread the wealth.....

To all citizens

And one person one vote,apart from people in prision.....

It does perplexe me when I see how your voter registration works....

It seems weighted against certain peoples.......

And I really don't like computer votes....easily rigged



I think that's what's happening now and will continue to happen. The younger generation in my family seem to be landing in more rural/suburban areas rather than gravitate to cities like my generation did. Smaller cities seem to be being revitalized.

Voter registration is a matter of State's rights.  For every state there are rules that are not necessarily the same.  This is why we have a problem with gerrymandering.  My own district was sliced off and gerrymandered into a predominantly Republican district.   But, it's happened in reverse where when Democrats were in control there was redistricting to give them the advantage.  It can't be federally legislated because it's the state's purview.  So yes... it can be very confusing.  

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Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

It was once true that more of the population lived in the country rather than cities, but that is no longer the case.  I'd also like to point out States' Rights in terms of country people having a vote, rather than Federal.  "Country folk" are much more impacted by things that are governed by their State rather than the Federal level. 


Care to expand on that and provide several examples? And is it your contention that citizens who live outside the cities should have no voice in federal elections? 



No.  I said what I had to say in my post in its entirety.  

Yeah I'd stay away from expanding on that one too LOL. Good thing we live in a constitutional democratic republic where all people are represented not just the cities as you would seem to like it to be per your statement.

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If that's your take away from my post, then I'd suggest brushing up on your reading comprehension, skills, AI.  

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Witch...  my reading of your back and forth with AI is that it/he/she was twisting your words to say something that you did not say. 

[tongue-in-check] Maybe Artificial Intelligence still has a way to go before it is able to understand forum posts.  [/tongue-in-check]

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Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Yeah I'd stay away from expanding on that one too LOL. Good thing we live in a constitutional democratic republic where all people are represented not just the cities as you would seem to like it to be per your statement.


Tell me, AI, what part of the minority having the controlling voice over the majority voice makes this a constitutional democratic republic?  I think that would be a much more interesting discussion than the circular argument you tried to trap me into by twisting my post.  

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Originally posted by EdwinSm, EdwinSm, wrote:

Witch...  my reading of your back and forth with AI is that it/he/she was twisting your words to say something that you did not say. 

[tongue-in-check] Maybe Artificial Intelligence still has a way to go before it is able to understand forum posts.  [/tongue-in-check]



Yes.  AI has been doing this for quite some time.  I'm aware of it.  In an absurd way, I believe he's targeted me to try to "best" me.  I've dealt with it most of my life.  It is precious few men (especially of my generation) who can handle an educated woman.  

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Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

It was once true that more of the population lived in the country rather than cities, but that is no longer the case.  I'd also like to point out States' Rights in terms of country people having a vote, rather than Federal.  "Country folk" are much more impacted by things that are governed by their State rather than the Federal level. 


Care to expand on that and provide several examples? And is it your contention that citizens who live outside the cities should have no voice in federal elections? 



No.  I said what I had to say in my post in its entirety.  

No as in that is not your contention? No as in you can not provide examples?

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Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Yeah I'd stay away from expanding on that one too LOL. Good thing we live in a constitutional democratic republic where all people are represented not just the cities as you would seem to like it to be per your statement.


Tell me, AI, what part of the minority having the controlling voice over the majority voice makes this a constitutional democratic republic?  I think that would be a much more interesting discussion than the circular argument you tried to trap me into by twisting my post.  

Asking for clarification and examples is twisting a post? It's something an educated and intelligent person should be able to do very easily when asked for regarding their position or statement. Hence my surprise when you failed to.  Hardly a trap now is it.  

Equal proportional representation among the 50 states is what makes this a constitutional democratic republic.  Why would it be right to have the 10 most populous states that make up over half the population of the US make all the decisions for the other 40 states? 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2020 at 2:54pm






After watching the docco "Kill Chain"

(https://youtu.be/ArY_mFH_ZhA)

My biggest concern is  

Are all votes being counted Freely and Fairly,

And are all people able to cast their Vote 

which is the right of all Citizens

Regardless if PR is used in any election.

I would resist any voter machine use here ,

Just not secure enough.....

"Aka Edward Snowden"

Occupation: Computer security consultant




Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2020 at 5:54am

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Yeah I'd stay away from expanding on that one too LOL. Good thing we live in a constitutional democratic republic where all people are represented not just the cities as you would seem to like it to be per your statement.


Tell me, AI, what part of the minority having the controlling voice over the majority voice makes this a constitutional democratic republic?  I think that would be a much more interesting discussion than the circular argument you tried to trap me into by twisting my post.  

Asking for clarification and examples is twisting a post? It's something an educated and intelligent person should be able to do very easily when asked for regarding their position or statement. Hence my surprise when you failed to.  Hardly a trap now is it.  

Equal proportional representation among the 50 states is what makes this a constitutional democratic republic.  Why would it be right to have the 10 most populous states that make up over half the population of the US make all the decisions for the other 40 states? 



You asked for clarification on something I did not say.  I'd go on to say something about gas-lighting, but I've come to realize you are unaware of your own behavior.  I know you're looking for a hot debate where you can deride and minimize your opponent.  Today, I am your chosen opponent.  The problem is, I'm not playing your game.  Be Well and Stay Safe, AI.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2020 at 2:22pm

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Yeah I'd stay away from expanding on that one too LOL. Good thing we live in a constitutional democratic republic where all people are represented not just the cities as you would seem to like it to be per your statement.


Tell me, AI, what part of the minority having the controlling voice over the majority voice makes this a constitutional democratic republic?  I think that would be a much more interesting discussion than the circular argument you tried to trap me into by twisting my post.  

Asking for clarification and examples is twisting a post? It's something an educated and intelligent person should be able to do very easily when asked for regarding their position or statement. Hence my surprise when you failed to.  Hardly a trap now is it.  

Equal proportional representation among the 50 states is what makes this a constitutional democratic republic.  Why would it be right to have the 10 most populous states that make up over half the population of the US make all the decisions for the other 40 states? 



You asked for clarification on something I did not say.  I'd go on to say something about gas-lighting, but I've come to realize you are unaware of your own behavior.  I know you're looking for a hot debate where you can deride and minimize your opponent.  Today, I am your chosen opponent.  The problem is, I'm not playing your game.  Be Well and Stay Safe, AI.  

No quite the contrary I asked for clarification on something you did say in fact you made it a point to point it out.

"It was once true that more of the population lived in the country rather than cities, but that is no longer the case.  I'd also like to point out States' Rights in terms of country people having a vote, rather than Federal.  "Country folk" are much more impacted by things that are governed by their State rather than the Federal level."

 So what was your point that you trying to convey in that statement?  The context of the conversation was the electoral college if you need a reminder.

Guess the interesting conversation regarding the fact the US is a constitutional democratic republic is out of the question as a much more interesting discussion since my reply regarding that huh?  I have the feeling you'd say it would be right. LOL

I'll leave it at that so I don't "gaslight " you     


You stay safe too and be well as well. 







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Newbie1A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2020 at 3:59pm

And...another post downgraded to politics... guess I really do need to concentrate on news articles vs forum   

If it's to be - it's up to me!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2020 at 6:52pm

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Guarantee this type stay at home order will not be allowed or followed again regardless of what the Governor says.


That's sad, AI.  Because I think it will come to that.  Stay safe.

What sad is the fact that people who adhered to the stay at home and followed social distancing requirements will the ones who pay for those protesters not following the law. What's sad is the fact the governor of this state didn't have the balls to say "hey folks I can understand your anger and the reasons behind it and you have every right to protest but we are in the middle of a pandemic and now is not the time, it could cause loss of life and a further spread of the virus."  Instead he pandered to them and encouraged them while telling everyone he has the authority to keep the state in lock down due to the virus and yet not once did he tell the protesters to go home because you know the state is in a health emergency and their actions could actually cause more deaths.  You can't fix stupid but I see lot's trying to justify it. Maybe stupid is the new normal.

In short he put politics ahead of peoples health and safety and ignored his own laws. 

So, it is acceptable for Pres. Trump to hold his massive (and totally superfluous) rally in Tulsa, OK and insist upon a mask-less GOP Convention?   Both events are indoors, where attendees will be breathing each others exhalations endlessly.  

Very few cases will likely be generated from protest activities, AI.  Those were nearly all outdoors, many protesters (unlike Trumpistas) wear masks, and generally, the crowds are younger than the ancient white-bread Republican crowds.  Also, I'd posit, a great deal more intelligent.

Not a mask to be seen in this Trump/Pence campaign group, featuring Pence:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/10/politics/mike-pence-2020-election-coronavirus/index.html

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2020 at 11:12pm

Dr Fauci completely disagrees with your assessment  of the risks the protests pose for further spreading of the virus. Curious you both have different opinions. I guess the difference is he left the politics out of the equation, you did not.

Dr. Anthony Fauci has warned that Black Lives Matter protests are the 'perfect setup' for further spread of COVID-19. I get very concerned, as do my colleagues in public health, when they see these kinds of crowds,' the coronavirus task force doctor told WTOP. 'There certainly is a risk. I can say that with confidence.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8396585/Dr-Fauci-warns-Black-Lives-Matter-protests-perfect-setup-spreading-coronavirus.html


And left or right, any large crowd during a viral pandemic is not exactly a smart thing to do. Plenty of idiots out there on both sides.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2020 at 11:23pm

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Dr Fauci completely disagrees with your assessment  of the risks the protests pose for further spreading of the virus. Curious you both have different opinions. I guess the difference is he left the politics out of the equation, you did not.

Dr. Anthony Fauci has warned that Black Lives Matter protests are the 'perfect setup' for further spread of COVID-19. I get very concerned, as do my colleagues in public health, when they see these kinds of crowds,' the coronavirus task force doctor told WTOP. 'There certainly is a risk. I can say that with confidence.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8396585/Dr-Fauci-warns-Black-Lives-Matter-protests-perfect-setup-spreading-coronavirus.html


And left or right, any large crowd during a viral pandemic is not exactly a smart thing to do. Plenty of idiots out there on both sides.

There is always risk in anything, AI.....if we touch the doorknob to go outside, we have risk. 

The question is one of degree.  Considering all of the open air, exposure of breath aerosols to UV, fact that many protesters did have masks, will this result in significant disease?  Measurable, certainly, but not significant.  

I'd much rather attend an open-air rally than one at the BOK Center in Tulsa, OK.  Experimental evidence shows that large congregations of shouting, heavy-breathing attendees results in fulminant disease. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1103080/south-korea-covid-19-cases-related-to-shincheonji-church/

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2020 at 11:36pm

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Dr Fauci completely disagrees with your assessment  of the risks the protests pose for further spreading of the virus. Curious you both have different opinions. I guess the difference is he left the politics out of the equation, you did not.

Dr. Anthony Fauci has warned that Black Lives Matter protests are the 'perfect setup' for further spread of COVID-19. I get very concerned, as do my colleagues in public health, when they see these kinds of crowds,' the coronavirus task force doctor told WTOP. 'There certainly is a risk. I can say that with confidence.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8396585/Dr-Fauci-warns-Black-Lives-Matter-protests-perfect-setup-spreading-coronavirus.html


And left or right, any large crowd during a viral pandemic is not exactly a smart thing to do. Plenty of idiots out there on both sides.

There is always risk in anything, AI.....if we touch the doorknob to go outside, we have risk. 

The question is one of degree.  Considering all of the open air, exposure of breath aerosols to UV, fact that many protesters did have masks, will this result in significant disease?  Measurable, certainly, but not significant.  

I'd much rather attend an open-air rally than one at the BOK Center in Tulsa, OK.  Experimental evidence shows that large congregations of shouting, heavy-breathing attendees results in fulminant disease. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1103080/south-korea-covid-19-cases-related-to-shincheonji-church/

You saw the mass crowds shoulder to shoulder quite a bit of the time, some while they may have had masks they were not N95 and there was no seal, you know that only increases their protection factor by 17% and if you look most don't even wear them properly. Shouting and screaming certainly help the transmission rate and there was a lot of that. And then there is transmission by contact among the masses, incidental and intentional contact furthering transmission. And all this day after day after day for a week or more. Yes it is a matter of degree isn't it. Well a week or two time will tell won't it. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2020 at 2:25am

For what it's worth, NYC and New York on the whole has seen 21 days of protesting "shoulder to shoulder".  With very few exceptions everyone wore face coverings.  The infection rates are still dropping.  Unless something changes drastically in the next seven days, if protesters are wearing masks and are out of doors, there's no indication that protesting means higher infection rates.

As a side note, 14 police and national guard has tested positive here in NY the last time I checked.  None of them were wearing masks.  The protesters are actually complaining that they could be infected and the police and national guard need to be required to wear masks.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2020 at 2:49am

I agree the police and national guard should be given protection against corvid-19, just like everyone else. [Sorry if it does not seem macho enough]

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2020 at 9:25am

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

For what it's worth, NYC and New York on the whole has seen 21 days of protesting "shoulder to shoulder".  With very few exceptions everyone wore face coverings.  The infection rates are still dropping.  Unless something changes drastically in the next seven days, if protesters are wearing masks and are out of doors, there's no indication that protesting means higher infection rates.

As a side note, 14 police and national guard has tested positive here in NY the last time I checked.  None of them were wearing masks.  The protesters are actually complaining that they could be infected and the police and national guard need to be required to wear masks.

De Blasio Tells Covid Contract Tracers Not to Ask Positive Cases If They’ve Attended BLM Protests

New York City’s coronavirus contact-tracing force are not asking those who test positive for COVID-19 whether they recently attended a Black Lives Matter demonstration, a city spokesperson confirmed.

“No person will be asked proactively if they attended a protest,” Avery Cohen, a spokesperson for de Blasio, told THE CITY about the directive. “If a person wants to proactively offer that information, there is an opportunity for them to do so.”

De Blasio, who announced his program last month to hire 1,000 “contact tracers,” has promised to reveal Monday how many city residents have been questioned so far.

Tracers are supposed to ask those who test positive for Covid-19 to “recall ‘contacts’ and individuals they may have exposed,” Cohen explained. Tracers also probe for any “close contacts” of the patient — anyone that has been within six feet of the infected person for at least 10 minutes.

 “Let’s be clear about something: if there is a spike in coronavirus cases in the next two weeks, don’t blame the protesters. Blame racism,” Mark Levine, head of the city council’s health committee, tweeted earlier this month.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/blasio-tells-covid-contract-tracers-134316096.html

Guess it's not pertinent information how, when or where potential transmission occurred. LOL  And contract tracing in NYC is pretty much useless due to the protests causing missing links in the transmission chain. You can't fix stupid but you can try to rationalize and justify it and look that's exactly what's happening.

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In New York Protests, a Night Without Curfew or Conflict

Shoulder to shoulder

See the source image

 Shoulder to shoulder 

Say it with me now VIRAL PANDEMIC. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2020 at 8:45pm

New York Gov. Cuomo Threatens To Shut Down Hamptons, Manhattan For Not Following Social Distancing Rules

Appalled by photos of mass gatherings that are ignoring social distancing protocols, Cuomo said he would shut down various locations again if residents don’t abide by the state’s reopening rules

We’re not going to go back to that dark place because local governments didn’t do their job,” Cuomo said. 

Two days ago, more than 200 people were captured on video partying on St. Marks Place in the East Village in Manhattan. They were ignoring stipulations on social distancing.

“I’m not going to allow situations to exist, that we know have a high likelihood of causing an increase in the virus,” Cuomo said. “Local governments, do your job.”

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/york-gov-cuomo-threatens-shut-191026986.html

                       

Apparently the Governor of NY has his head so far up his fourth point of contact he was unaware of the mass protests in his state as there wasn't a word from him about the thousands upon thousands ignoring the social distancing rules for weeks in NYC during the protests. Maybe he should have done his job as the pictures in the previous post clearly show he didn't. Hypocrisy on his part? Yes it is.

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