Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
Giving up on the pandemic |
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Pixie
Admin Group Joined: June 05 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 19668 |
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Posted: June 07 2020 at 4:19pm |
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https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/06/america-giving-up-on-pandemic/ America Is Giving Up on the Pandemic Businesses are reopening. Protests are erupting nationwide. But the virus isn’t done with us. |
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carbon20
Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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News cycle..... Bored with that old virus news.......stuff.... Only until people start getting sick and die....... Very interesting to watch..... |
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖
Marcus Aurelius |
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WitchMisspelled
Adviser Group Joined: January 20 2020 Status: Offline Points: 17170 |
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That will change, Carbon. A few states are already burning with another dozen or so on the brink. |
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AI
Adviser Group Joined: January 21 2020 Status: Offline Points: 8850 |
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Why wouldn't people give up on it? In my state it's still illegal for more than 50 people to gather, yet for the last week thousands have been gathering and protesting and the Governor encouraging it and does nothing about it. Hardly puts out the message that social distancing is necessary or that the social distancing requirements as law are to be followed. Guarantee this type stay at home order will not be allowed or followed again regardless of what the Governor says. |
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CRS, DrPH
Expert Level Adviser Joined: January 20 2014 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 26660 |
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I agree, we live in Arizona, which barely adhered to the shutdown (there were a lot of cheaters), and our Republican Gov. Ducey could not wait to throw the doors open again. We are regularly listed as one of the states with the fastest rise in cases. This should be interesting, stay tuned. |
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CRS, DrPH
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WitchMisspelled
Adviser Group Joined: January 20 2020 Status: Offline Points: 17170 |
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That's sad, AI. Because I think it will come to that. Stay safe. |
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WitchMisspelled
Adviser Group Joined: January 20 2020 Status: Offline Points: 17170 |
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I thank my lucky stars every day that I live in NY. NYC just started our phase 1 opening yesterday. Like it or not, we've been warned phase 2 might not happen until sometime in July. It depends what the infection rate does with all these protests that seem to just keep getting larger. 15 free testing sites have been designated for protesters and it has been requested that they get tested, not just once, but as often as practical (once a week). |
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AI
Adviser Group Joined: January 21 2020 Status: Offline Points: 8850 |
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What sad is the fact that people who adhered to the stay at home and followed social distancing requirements will the ones who pay for those protesters not following the law. What's sad is the fact the governor of this state didn't have the balls to say "hey folks I can understand your anger and the reasons behind it and you have every right to protest but we are in the middle of a pandemic and now is not the time, it could cause loss of life and a further spread of the virus." Instead he pandered to them and encouraged them while telling everyone he has the authority to keep the state in lock down due to the virus and yet not once did he tell the protesters to go home because you know the state is in a health emergency and their actions could actually cause more deaths. You can't fix stupid but I see lot's trying to justify it. Maybe stupid is the new normal. In short he put politics ahead of peoples health and safety and ignored his own laws. |
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Technophobe
Assistant Admin Joined: January 16 2014 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 88450 |
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Agreed. Needed, BUT NOT NOW! |
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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving. |
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Thorne!
Adviser Group Joined: February 07 2020 Status: Offline Points: 2695 |
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Well worth the time to read the not-to-long article. Now, a Seattle researcher behind early genomic analysis of the coronavirus says that daily deaths in the United States could more than double - adding between 200 and 900 deaths per day for each day of protests involving at least 600,000 people, according to Hot Air.
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WitchMisspelled
Adviser Group Joined: January 20 2020 Status: Offline Points: 17170 |
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Don't know what state you're in, AI, but I think the Governor of Michigan tried that line with the protesters who stormed the capitol. Didn't work, did it? |
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carbon20
Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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Forgive me for being wrong if I Am But did chump win the last election on the people's vote? Or did Hillary win by more than 2.5 million votes And then the electoral collage votes chump in Something I didnt quite understand. What is the electoral collage and why so much influence. Just asking, I could google it but would like one of you Yanks to enlighten me Cheers...😎 |
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖
Marcus Aurelius |
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AI
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carbon20
Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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Wise move AI...lol I Just hold my head in hands and wonder WTF I see the need for protests, But I worry for America..... |
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖
Marcus Aurelius |
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AI
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Usk
V.I.P. Member Joined: January 26 2020 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 7325 |
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Once again I agree with ☝️ In regards to your question about our system of how popular vote doesn’t win elections. Our founding fathers wisely did not want certain higher populations of states to have more sway in who runs the United States. Key word United. Virginia is a perfect example. The northern section section with the significantly larger population is vastly liberal to socialism. The Southern part with exception of UVA area is the total opposite to the point of libertarian. However each population center elects and has just one person who represents them that are part of the “College” This allows for equal votes from around the state and not just the la rger population to the North have greater voice. Let me know if I got this right. This same thing is applied to every state |
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carbon20
Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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cheers It's called proportional representation here, So the country folks get an equal say.....to city folks, But what is relevent in the Bush is not nesssarly relevant in the Cities......thats here I'm sure it would be the same there |
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖
Marcus Aurelius |
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WitchMisspelled
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It was once true that more of the population lived in the country rather than cities, but that is no longer the case. I'd also like to point out States' Rights in terms of country people having a vote, rather than Federal. "Country folk" are much more impacted by things that are governed by their State rather than the Federal level. There was also the issue of the intent to invite people to populate our country in the time of the Founding Fathers. Most of those people would be uneducated and wouldn't be able to read and write English. On the whole I do believe we need to be rid of the electoral college. If not, then we need to get rid of gerry-mandering and this nonsense of disallowing certain people to vote for whatever reason. Just like every single American has a social security number, every single American over the age of 18 should have the right to vote without having to provide some obscure piece of identification with photo registered with the feds... yadda yadda yadda. A social security number is enough and easier to check for multiple voting. |
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AI
Adviser Group Joined: January 21 2020 Status: Offline Points: 8850 |
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ViQueen24
Adviser Group Joined: May 14 2013 Location: Verona, PA Status: Offline Points: 12270 |
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Two anomalies of the E!ectoral College system are that in some states, you have a "winner takes all" of the electoral votes, whereas, other states split them proportionally. The other problem is that just because an elector is pledged to a candidate, does not mean they actually cede their votes to that candidate. Nothing binding requires them to do so. Silly. |
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AI
Adviser Group Joined: January 21 2020 Status: Offline Points: 8850 |
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Well if you don't like the electoral college then you can change it via constitutional amendment. One requires a 2/3 approval vote of both houses of Congress and then a 3/4 approval vote by the states. The other a national convention called by 2/3rd's of the states and requiring a 3/4 approval vote by the states. Good luck with that it was designed hard to do for a good reason and that was to ensure the US remained a Constitutional Democratic Republic. |
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carbon20
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Maybe you should push to get people to move from the cities, I know that's what we need to do here, Governments need to decentralised....... And spread the wealth..... To all citizens And one person one vote,apart from people in prision..... It does perplexe me when I see how your voter registration works.... It seems weighted against certain peoples....... And I really don't like computer votes....easily rigged |
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖
Marcus Aurelius |
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WitchMisspelled
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No. I said what I had to say in my post in its entirety. |
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WitchMisspelled
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I think that's what's happening now and will continue to happen. The younger generation in my family seem to be landing in more rural/suburban areas rather than gravitate to cities like my generation did. Smaller cities seem to be being revitalized. Voter registration is a matter of State's rights. For every state there are rules that are not necessarily the same. This is why we have a problem with gerrymandering. My own district was sliced off and gerrymandered into a predominantly Republican district. But, it's happened in reverse where when Democrats were in control there was redistricting to give them the advantage. It can't be federally legislated because it's the state's purview. So yes... it can be very confusing. |
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AI
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WitchMisspelled
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If that's your take away from my post, then I'd suggest brushing up on your reading comprehension, skills, AI. |
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EdwinSm,
Moderator Joined: April 03 2013 Status: Offline Points: 24065 |
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Witch... my reading of your back and forth with AI is that it/he/she was twisting your words to say something that you did not say. [tongue-in-check] Maybe Artificial Intelligence still has a way to go before it is able to understand forum posts. [/tongue-in-check] |
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WitchMisspelled
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Tell me, AI, what part of the minority having the controlling voice over the majority voice makes this a constitutional democratic republic? I think that would be a much more interesting discussion than the circular argument you tried to trap me into by twisting my post. |
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WitchMisspelled
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Yes. AI has been doing this for quite some time. I'm aware of it. In an absurd way, I believe he's targeted me to try to "best" me. I've dealt with it most of my life. It is precious few men (especially of my generation) who can handle an educated woman. |
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ViQueen24
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AI
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AI
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Equal proportional representation among the 50 states is what makes this a constitutional democratic republic. Why would it be right to have the 10 most populous states that make up over half the population of the US make all the decisions for the other 40 states? |
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carbon20
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After watching the docco "Kill Chain" (https://youtu.be/ArY_mFH_ZhA) My biggest concern is Are all votes being counted Freely and Fairly, And are all people able to cast their Vote which is the right of all Citizens Regardless if PR is used in any election. I would resist any voter machine use here , Just not secure enough..... "Aka Edward Snowden" Occupation: Computer security consultant |
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖
Marcus Aurelius |
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WitchMisspelled
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You asked for clarification on something I did not say. I'd go on to say something about gas-lighting, but I've come to realize you are unaware of your own behavior. I know you're looking for a hot debate where you can deride and minimize your opponent. Today, I am your chosen opponent. The problem is, I'm not playing your game. Be Well and Stay Safe, AI. |
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AI
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"It was once true that more of the population lived in the country rather than cities, but that is no longer the case. I'd also like to point out States' Rights in terms of country people having a vote, rather than Federal. "Country folk" are much more impacted by things that are governed by their State rather than the Federal level." So what was your point that you trying to convey in that statement? The context of the conversation was the electoral college if you need a reminder. Guess the interesting conversation regarding the fact the US is a constitutional democratic republic is out of the question as a much more interesting discussion since my reply regarding that huh? I have the feeling you'd say it would be right. LOL I'll leave it at that so I don't "gaslight " you You stay safe too and be well as well. |
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Newbie1A
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And...another post downgraded to politics... guess I really do need to concentrate on news articles vs forum |
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If it's to be - it's up to me!
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CRS, DrPH
Expert Level Adviser Joined: January 20 2014 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 26660 |
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So, it is acceptable for Pres. Trump to hold his massive (and totally superfluous) rally in Tulsa, OK and insist upon a mask-less GOP Convention? Both events are indoors, where attendees will be breathing each others exhalations endlessly. Very few cases will likely be generated from protest activities, AI. Those were nearly all outdoors, many protesters (unlike Trumpistas) wear masks, and generally, the crowds are younger than the ancient white-bread Republican crowds. Also, I'd posit, a great deal more intelligent. Not a mask to be seen in this Trump/Pence campaign group, featuring Pence: https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/10/politics/mike-pence-2020-election-coronavirus/index.html |
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CRS, DrPH
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AI
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Dr Fauci completely disagrees with your assessment of the risks the protests pose for further spreading of the virus. Curious you both have different opinions. I guess the difference is he left the politics out of the equation, you did not. Dr. Anthony Fauci has warned that Black Lives Matter protests are the 'perfect setup' for further spread of COVID-19. I get very concerned, as do my colleagues in public health, when they see these kinds of crowds,' the coronavirus task force doctor told WTOP. 'There certainly is a risk. I can say that with confidence.' And left or right, any large crowd during a viral pandemic is not exactly a smart thing to do. Plenty of idiots out there on both sides. |
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CRS, DrPH
Expert Level Adviser Joined: January 20 2014 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 26660 |
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There is always risk in anything, AI.....if we touch the doorknob to go outside, we have risk. The question is one of degree. Considering all of the open air, exposure of breath aerosols to UV, fact that many protesters did have masks, will this result in significant disease? Measurable, certainly, but not significant. I'd much rather attend an open-air rally than one at the BOK Center in Tulsa, OK. Experimental evidence shows that large congregations of shouting, heavy-breathing attendees results in fulminant disease. |
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CRS, DrPH
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AI
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WitchMisspelled
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For what it's worth, NYC and New York on the whole has seen 21 days of protesting "shoulder to shoulder". With very few exceptions everyone wore face coverings. The infection rates are still dropping. Unless something changes drastically in the next seven days, if protesters are wearing masks and are out of doors, there's no indication that protesting means higher infection rates. As a side note, 14 police and national guard has tested positive here in NY the last time I checked. None of them were wearing masks. The protesters are actually complaining that they could be infected and the police and national guard need to be required to wear masks. |
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EdwinSm,
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I agree the police and national guard should be given protection against corvid-19, just like everyone else. [Sorry if it does not seem macho enough] |
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AI
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De Blasio Tells Covid Contract Tracers Not to Ask Positive Cases If They’ve Attended BLM ProtestsNew York City’s coronavirus contact-tracing force are not asking those who test positive for COVID-19 whether they recently attended a Black Lives Matter demonstration, a city spokesperson confirmed. “No person will be asked proactively if they attended a protest,” Avery Cohen, a spokesperson for de Blasio, told THE CITY about the directive. “If a person wants to proactively offer that information, there is an opportunity for them to do so.” De Blasio, who announced his program last month to hire 1,000 “contact tracers,” has promised to reveal Monday how many city residents have been questioned so far. Tracers are supposed to ask those who test positive for Covid-19 to “recall ‘contacts’ and individuals they may have exposed,” Cohen explained. Tracers also probe for any “close contacts” of the patient — anyone that has been within six feet of the infected person for at least 10 minutes. “Let’s be clear about something: if there is a spike in coronavirus cases in the next two weeks, don’t blame the protesters. Blame racism,” Mark Levine, head of the city council’s health committee, tweeted earlier this month. https://www.yahoo.com/news/blasio-tells-covid-contract-tracers-134316096.html Guess it's not pertinent information how, when or where potential transmission occurred. LOL And contract tracing in NYC is pretty much useless due to the protests causing missing links in the transmission chain. You can't fix stupid but you can try to rationalize and justify it and look that's exactly what's happening. |
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AI
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Shoulder to shoulder Shoulder to shoulder |
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AI
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New York Gov. Cuomo Threatens To Shut Down Hamptons, Manhattan For Not Following Social Distancing RulesAppalled by photos of mass gatherings that are ignoring social distancing protocols, Cuomo said he would shut down various locations again if residents don’t abide by the state’s reopening rules “We’re not going to go back to that dark place because local governments didn’t do their job,” Cuomo said. Two days ago, more than 200 people were captured on video partying on St. Marks Place in the East Village in Manhattan. They were ignoring stipulations on social distancing. “I’m not going to allow situations to exist, that we know have a high likelihood of causing an increase in the virus,” Cuomo said. “Local governments, do your job.” https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/york-gov-cuomo-threatens-shut-191026986.html
Apparently the Governor of NY has his head so far up his fourth point of contact he was unaware of the mass protests in his state as there wasn't a word from him about the thousands upon thousands ignoring the social distancing rules for weeks in NYC during the protests. Maybe he should have done his job as the pictures in the previous post clearly show he didn't. Hypocrisy on his part? Yes it is. |
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