H5N1 Endemic in Europe (Osterhaus/Niman)

Yes I read this one and it scares. It explains why German swans (mute, that
do not migrate) were found with this strain. Doesn't tell us how they got it
but suggests it was from other water fowl. E.g Bewick and Whooper swans
that pass thru the region in October on their way from Siberia to the EU
coasts (Denmark, Germany,etc.). But it could be any bird or other species.
That could also mean that North America has a strain in the4 far north
already as the east Atlantic flyway overlaps with this. If not they soon will as
it also overlaps with Nigeria.

Also was wondering how KFC were doing out of all this?? peace xx

Rick Quote (then the situation is more advanced than anyone impagined. The fact that this might be endemic in Europe already, accelerates the possiblility of H2H developing)

Amen. Why should we be supprised? If modern western nations can't detect the bug or are forced to admitting their findings months after discovery, we are screwed. Who can you believe or trust?

How long has it been here in the US? If Europe in the fall. Asia last year. Why not here already slowly building?

Anybody hear of banned poultr products from th EU yet?

I wonder how it became no BF to emdemic in  Europe within a week.  If you draw on this behaviour from the big dogs, what is going on in N& S A. It seems that they also are lying. Maybe that's why the sudden push to get people to stock up.  Up here in BC Canada, haven't heard much at all, still getting lots of laughs. 

Though my oldest daughter called last nite and they had been to Costco and bought a lot.  Her hubby is the same as mine, "can't hurt to have extra in the house." Saves face for the men, only us girls who are kooky.  Now I have to work on the youngest

and now India.....yikes!

I with ya there Corn...It will probably start at those chcken ranches in MD and then go on to address all the birds dying off here!

Meewee

First wave???????  First wave in birds???????  First wave in humans?????

Please clarify for me.  I'm a little behind in developments.

 

We are in our third wave as a whole in the world. According to the WHO This link refers to waves. Its been waving in Asia and fixing to wave again.

http://www.who.int/csr/disease/avian_influenza/Timeline_15.0 2.pdf.

The world is currently on its third wave according to the WHO. Here in the US it would be our first wave not if but when it hits according to the WHO. 

The WHO wave chart refers to birds and humans.

Why do countries get so concerned when the BF becomes endemic or arrives in their terrortory?

What follows next?  risk of human/ swine/bird infection or human/swine/bird death.

what comes next? opportunity to mutate, mutation, spread.
Infected birds= spread= human /swine infection= mutation,

birds=humans

Infected birds arrive and  transport  the diesase is  in most cases, In other cases lack of biosecurity by humans transports the BF. Like the feed truck or inspector that delivers to a farm then carries to another, etc. Birds and humans transfer the virus to other birds and to each other.

Humans are carrying the virus right now on their clothes and shoes in parts of the world. speading it to other poultry stocks etc. luckily the virus in not so adapted to humans, yet in some parts of the world.  it is very adapted and H2H

You visit the chicken market. get virus on clothes go to other chicke market. leave some of the virus there. It's not just wild birds spreading BF. Humans are spreading it to the birds also.

When ever we get hit in the US it will be ourfirst wave. In every country you have BF you will find human antibodies or dead people.

Elbows you are up to your neck over ther with BF that  2 weeks ago you were saying i was exagerating, 
I speak about waves. I call it a wave just like the WHO.

Englands second wave is headed your way. (The fall wave was covered up) Pandemics run in waves. The first being mild as they gain momentum.

I will now quote hundreds of experts, scientist and government officals..."It is inevitable, there will be a pandemic."

 Elbows, can you prove otherwise?

Elbows you quote:(I dont think you've missed much SophiaZoe, except that some people here are having trouble with all the news & geographical spread in birds, its causing overfear and proclamations about human cases and waves for which there is no evidence.)

If its such a rosy picture why are you here?
you stalk me on this board and keep making references to me personally.cut your "Some people" remarks and back off.

I really don't mind the conversation but what I don't like is being stalked on this board for every counter post. find somebody else.

There is nothing i can say you agree with so leave me alone amd quit trying to sell it to others..

 

Edited by Corn

Corn,

You absolutely correct - It won't go away and that's what everyone needs to understand.

Keep your contributions and great articles coming... I would rather be an 'informed individual' with an 'inevitable pandemic' down the tracks.

Cool

Well Corn don't take offense to Elbows; you are attacked because many of the 'predictions' you've made have come to pass. 

Elbows - why aren't you more concerned?  Every disease specialist and scientist in the entire world is concerned about this....what kind of professional are you that you are not?  what kind of lab study have you done that calms your fears so???  You seem to sit on a high and mighty horse while you try to calm people on here, but you really don't seem to have the creditials to do so.  Where is your proof in being so lax about this???

I am sorry that this is such a HOT topic that it can bring out fears, harsh words or different interpretations of what was said. I have not read the dialog as I do not want to be involved. But, I do hate it when we lose someone. I think that most of us are open people and I think everyones personality, point and thoughts count. I hope that you would reconsider. I have enjoyed many of your informative posts. April

Let us hope that someone on the site doesn't  wait 30 days to tell us they think there is a suspected case in New York or LA so they dont draw the rath of the skeptics while we wait for test results.

Suspected things are all the advance warning we might have.

Edited by Corn

Well I can be pretty harsh with my words, so I've been told...I also don't want to see people leave the forum because of hurt feelings, but as I've said before...if you've got some serious beliefs - before I will consider changing mine, have some good, hard evidence.  When you put it there in my face, let me do my research and soul searching - I'll form my own opinions and beliefs. 

Elbows, if you do sign on again - stay on.  You are free to post your beliefs, thoughts, predictions, etc.  This is a good forum for staying up to date on where the bird flu is.  I don't even go to news websites anymore because there is an abundance of that here. 

How can you grow in character without being challenged?  What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger...I don't think any of us here have the power to kill you with our posts

 

I think this is just the stress of the situation talking.  Tension is at an all time high now and the wait and see game is getting old and excrutiatingly painful but the end result coming out most likely wont make it any better.  We are all one big throbbing nerve ending! The reason this forum works is because we are all different and come here with different strengths and weaknesses. Let's try to maintain tolerance and respect for one another.  

Hey man, If I am wrong I stand corrected. Peace

" The friend in my adversity I shall always cherish
most. I can better trust those who helped to relieve
the gloom of my dark hours than those who are so
ready to enjoy with me the sunshine of my prosperity."

Ulysses S Grant

elbows-

don't run off- i value your posts.

But what is 'talking-down'? Its as much in the perception of the person who reads it as the intention of the person who writes it.

I have no problem handling criticism, I can take as good as I get. What I cant handle, is the idea that my posts are making other people upset. They arent supposed to, they arent supposed to be personal attacks on anybody.

I havent called anybody an idiot, I thought I was engaging in lengthy discourse about the issues, but it seems like this is percieved as me 'taking people down'? Well I dont want to post here if thats the effect my posts have.

I dont think Corn was bullying me, I thought he was accusing me of bullying him.  Sure, when I said that some people are suffering from overfear, I consider you are one of the people I was refering to. Well, its just an opinio, the same as some people suggesting I am being too relaxed about the news.

The harm that can be done by being too cautious/worried really is as troublesome to me as people not worrying enough. If someone seals themselves into their own self-imposed quarantine 3 months too early, then rund out of supplies when the human2human pandemic finally arrives, well, I worry about such things. I like balance. Sometimes I will see something that I think deserves balancing with an alternative point of view, so I give it.

I think I will stick around but keep a low profile. I dont want to annoy you Corn, or anybody else, I will try hard to find a better balance. But it would help if you could tell me if there is something specifically I should do differently. I thought I had gone out of my way to explain myself at length in most of my posts, not just slapping you down, but tying hard to point out where I did agree with you as well. If I went wrong anywhere it probably was on this thread, I spoke to briefly, the 'soome people' came across as a slur I guess. But elsewhere when I have clashed with people, it has been over specific points, such as with Joe it was specifically about H1N1 in the vaccine, why it was there, how long it had been there. But then I got told by some that I should shutup becase Joe was well-respected. Thats the bit I cant subscribe to, I mean I respect Dr Niman but if he started saying that invisible pelicans of doom were spreading bird flu, Id reserve the right to question him as I would anybody else.

Good plan :)

You never know, the occasional head-butting might help find a cure, well probably not but we can hope.

Got any data as to whether not wearing clothes helps ward off flu?

AND THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT!!!!

elbows wrote: Good plan :)You never know, the occasional head- butting might help find a cure, well probably not but we can hope. Got any data as to whether not wearing clothes helps ward off flu?

My personal opionion.

Unless you were planning on spending many hours around
sick infected people, special protective clothing is not necessary, a good
mask, hand washing and common sense should protect an individual
adequately. There a number of good suggestions listed in posts
elsewhere that can provide this information. Use the search engine
feature, in this forum to look for topics titles or do key word seaches of
the contents as well. There are quite a few medical people here as well
and they can advise you. You can also email them directly to ask question
using the " Private Messenger" feature (upper right hand corner of your
page)