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Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic since 2005; Coronavirus COVID-19 Pandemic Discussion Forum.

Help needed re USA Data

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EdwinSm, View Drop Down
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    Posted: September 23 2020 at 2:05am

In another thread there was the implied problem of US Data - I posted some data from Worldometers, and another person posted some from John Hopkins University.  For the deaths there seems to be a difference of around 4 000.


Some of the problem, as I pointed out at the time, was Worldometers included US territories such as Puerto Rico, Guam, US Virgin Isles and Northern Mariana Islands. JHU includes Puerto Rico but excludes the other three. WHO lists all four separately.  These cover about 650 of the differences in deaths.   Worldometers also includes 3 US deaths that occurred on cruise liners, that I suspect is missing from CDC data (but this makes almost no difference so can be ignored when looking at the wider picture).


What I am also not clear about, are the categories such as US Military (62.871 cases, 93 deaths), Veteran Affairs (58.364 / 3.302) , Federal Prisons (16.173 / 124), Navajo Nation (10.131 / 548), which cover the bulk of the difference.   Are these categories being double counted by Worldometers, or are they being left off the CDC statistics?  For example are the cases and deaths from the Navajo Nation included in the individual States where the Nation is located?  Or are deaths in Federal custody or the military something that should be reported under the heading of Federal Government or in the State where any facility is located?


ps. this shows my lack of knowledge of the intricacies of the US system regarding First Nations vs USA and States vs Federal Government.

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carbon20 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2020 at 4:48am

All smoke and mirrors....

no-one knows how it all works....ask "Sir Humphrey"LMAO 

Only joking folks.....i think 🤔



Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
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WitchMisspelled View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2020 at 8:58am

Edwin... cook the books long enough and the numbers will say whatever you want.  

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EdwinSm, View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2020 at 11:06pm

I am not sure that the books are being cooked,  rather there is some selection going on that fits certain views/biases.  Eg. Worldometers, JHU and WHO all have different definitions of what comprises the "USA"!  I am not sure what CDC's definition is: on some graphs they seem to include territories, but when trying to find the actual data they only have the individual states listed [maybe I am looking at the wrong place.]


I don't think that they are cooking the books as such but by using different criteria then the figures can be bent a little. [That is spinning the data rather than following China's lead and providing false data].

Politically, I find it interesting that WHO gives the lowest figures for *"USA" and so should be more acceptable to the current administration. In part the WHO figure being low is a result of the delays in the process of notification through various stages: Eg Collected by Individual States, then passed on to CDC who collates it before passing on the WHO who only update their data once a day.

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Dutch Josh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2020 at 4:18am

EdwinSm, could timing be an issue ? End of counting at a certain time-maybe due to location (Europe, US etc) ? The day is reset after midnight GMT+0.=Worldometers, I did not find the daily total-moment for John Hopkins or WHO-if this is NOT 0 hrs GMT you may get different numbers....? 

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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WitchMisspelled View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2020 at 4:32am

Edwin, you can't find it because it is deliberately being obfuscated.  As of July numbers were no longer reported to the CDC and only to HHS.  This compromises the ability of the CDC to put out accurate numbers.  Considering HHS is headed by Azar, who is in Trumps pocket, their information is discretionary rather than accurate.  

You use the phrase "spinning the data".  Spinning the data is cooking the books.  

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carbon20 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2020 at 5:12am

I doubt very much if 200,000 is the real number.....

To much boardmarker on the white board 🤔...(aka hurricane where they going)

https://youtu.be/7kew_ZYnUyg

https://youtu.be/6n7QA0Gr_oQ

Last you forget who we are dealing with here!!!!!!!

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
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WitchMisspelled View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2020 at 12:21pm

Which is why if you trust any information coming out of the CDC, discretion needs to be exercised in taking them as "fact or fiction".

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AI View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2020 at 3:16pm

LOL is this a conspiracy site now? Short on facts, long on opinion yet again.

“Facts don't care about your feelings.”
― Ben Shapiro
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carbon20 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2020 at 5:50pm
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
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