Indefinite lockdown for unvaccinated....

Welcome to the police state that is Australia.

ABC News: Unvaccinated people to stay in lockdown for months as NSW COVID blueprint revealed.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-27/nsw-787-new-covid19-cases-12-deaths/100493596

While I am fully vaccinated, I do feel it is a personal choice. I am not liking how they are trying to force people into getting the vaccine. 

Republicans are hypocrites,they don’t give a sh*t,it just makes good headlines

https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2021/05/the-wave-of-gop-anti-protest-bills-will-criminalize-protesters-and-sabotage-police-reform-too/

The Wave of GOP Anti-Protest Bills Will Criminalize Protesters—and Sabotage Police Reform, Too

“Racist, unconstitutional, and anti-democratic, plain and simple.”

In the wake of the widespread George Floyd protests last year, Republican lawmakers across the country flooded the zone with so-called anti-riot bills. Last month, Florida’s Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis signed into law the draconian “Combating Public Disorder” measure that expands the definition of riot to mean a “violent public disturbance involving 3 or more people,” increases the penalty for participating in a riot, and gives police the discretion to decide what a riot is—and isn’t.

“The criminal aspects of this bill are already illegal,” Florida Agriculture Commissioner Nikki Fried said. “[It] protects no one, makes no one safer, and does nothing to make people’s lives better. It’s simply to appease the Governor’s delusion of widespread lawlessness.”

Despite being criticized for extremism, dozens of Republican-dominated states like Ohio and Arizona have similar measures succeeding in state legislatures and on their ways to become laws. “I think you’re going to see other states sort of picking up the ideas as well, so yeah, this is a real victory for him,” Florida State University Professor Carol Weissert told an NBC affiliate.

According to the International Center for Not-For-Profit Law, there are 69 anti-protest billspending across the nation. These proposals vary, but many of them expand the definition of rioting in such a way that it can potentially entrap peaceful protesters, while increasing penalties for unlawful assemblies, and offering civil protection for people who injure protesters like, say, individuals who ram their cars into demonstrators on the street.

This wave of extreme anti-protest bills signals a new era in the post-Trump Republican Party. The GOP has not only criminalized protests, they have also made it harder to vote and restricted abortion rights, all the while riling up and pandering to their largely white and fearful base. The party offers little in terms of substantive policy, instead choosing to focus on suppressing civil rights and engaging in dumb but still-dangerous culture wars. Not long ago, these types of bills may have been considered too extreme to become law, but now the flood gates have opened, and the anti-protest bills are rocketing through state legislatures, undermining both constitutional rights and efforts for police reform. 

After Derek Chauvin murdered George Floyd in Minneapolis last year, protests in every state erupted in response to the viral video of his death. The unrest sparked a national reckoning on race, policing, and justice, with a commitment from liberal politicians to reform police. But while advocates and activists pushed for change, conservative politicians have attempted to double down on the very conditions that triggered the demonstrations in the first place. By criminalizing an increasing number of what should be constitutionally protected activities, these bills only sanction more police interactions with the public. 

One of the major obstacles to police reform has been entrenched approaches by law enforcement officials. Many departments or agencies are reluctant to change and are backed by powerful unions, who see reform efforts as a direct attack on the people they represent. But these bills offer seemingly unlimited opportunities to come into contact with police officers because of our obsession with criminalizing actions, like walking in public, which in most other circumstances would be just a part of daily life. If one of the goals of police reform is to end police brutality, that won’t happen as long as Republicans continue to introduce bills that add to the long list of criminalized activities—including exercising the right to protest.

Don't be too impressed, Kiwimum.  Unless of course you're impressed with abject hypocrisy.  The GOP is the same party that's effectively trying to control the populace with things like passing legislation (yes.. I used the past tense... they have PASSED) to curtail voting rights and severely restrict abortion rights.   Then of course there's the Federal level legislation tax breaks to that makes it easy for corporations like Amazon, BP, etc. to not have to contribute to society by not paying taxes thereby making it impossible for the U.S. to enact Universal Healthcare.     So if you're thing is "my body my choice", the Republicans are not necessarily the shining ideology you want to exemplify.  

KiwiMum wrote: I was so impressed that the Republican Party in the US have called for trade sanctions against Australia to show their outrage at the excessive police brutality towards protesters. Good on them because there is little the individual can do to fight the madness and sometimes it takes the international community and an outside observer to say that's not acceptable.  And fyi, Grant Robertson our health minister has said today that NZ will not be requiring mandatory vaccinations. I'm with Penham on this, it's your body, it's your choice.

In my opinion they should have turned the water cannons on the fools .....

6 billion vaccinated 6. BILLION VACCINATED .....

your flogging a dead horse ,with your constant anti  Vax stance .....

JUST GIVE IT AWAY...

6 BILLION times just stop this ridiculous anti Vax stance....you've lost.....6 BiLLION TIMES OVER YOUVE LOST THE ARGUMENT.....

TAKE CARE ALL 😷😉💉

No your very very boring.....

6 billion....

Give it a rest.....

We are in the middle of a global pandemic,millions have died millions more unable to work.....

All bets and " your rights " are off 

Health systems all over are crashing ,it's ok for you and me ,locked away in very safe places.

The safest and best way is for everyone to get vaccinated......

I have never said I agree with mandates ,I've said those that don't want the vaccine should sign a waiver ,so they won't get hospital treatment if their snake oil remedies don't work,

Who said the virus dosnt affect children,lastest I heard MS is caused by having a childhood illness.....who's to say in 10 years all your kids won't get MS or some other illness.....from having C19

Vaccines have saved millions of lives over the last 60 years....

With very few bad out comes for the masses.....

In a heath emergency all rights of the individual are null and void......

Mainly because governments take their advice from professionals.....

Not the internet or Twitter.......

So you will never win ,and no matter which way you say it you come across as very anti Vax......

And if you think your kids will be attending University without a jab think again......

All work places have a "Duty of Care"

And I think you will find this will be the norm going forward or getting tested every week for the virus if you haven't been vaccinated.....and then you will have to isolate until you get better or die......

Take care all 😷😉💉

WitchMisspelled wrote: KiwiMum wrote: What impressed me was that someone - anyone - was prepared to stand up and say that the police brutality in Australia is not ok. We've all seen the videos. What we're seeing is aggravated assault by police officers on people who have a lawful right to peaceful protest. We're seeing handcuffed protesters then being assaulted whilst doing nothing. We're seeing police attack people with no justification.  As Dr Chris Martenson said yesterday, if this were happening in Iran, we'd all be up in arms about it but no one can quite believe that it's happening in a first world country like Australia. It's shameful and disgraceful and above all else, it's in breach of the people's civil rights and it's criminal activity that is being sanctioned by the state, and that can't go unchallenged. I'm sitting here trying to decide if you're truly impressed by this support from the American Good ol' Party or if you're playing both sides of the fence for fun.  I've pretty much settled on the latter.  Additionally, the fact that you are using a bunch of anti-vaxxer rhetoric but claim not to be an anti-vaxer, I'm really not sure you fail to realize you're not fooling people.  That being said, look up Black Lives Matter and be amazed.  Look up how the GOP tanked police reform that was inspired by this movement.  Look at how the GOP is fighting any discovery relating to January 6th. And at how these same leaders are trolling the like that the insurrectionists were just tourists and nothing really happened.   I've said my piece.  You may have the last word and all the connotations that go along with it.

I'm impressed, as I said earlier, by the fact that another country has finally spoken out about the state sanctioned criminal activity that is happening in Australia. 

As for anti-vax, in my definition of that, an anti vaxxer is someone who believes that vaccines don't work and therefore doesn't have any. In my family, we're all fully vaccinated. I actually took one of my children in for a jab last week. I keep repeating myself but no one seems to understand what I'm saying on here. I don't think the so-called covid vaccines are required for young healthy people, but are perfect for the old and the infirm. So for me and my young family, I don't think they are needed. We are all healthy, slim, active, fit and have no underlying heath problems. Statistically our chances of having a severe case of Covid are incredibly small. 

I can't think of a way to say it more clearly. 

I'm perfectly happy for anyone who wants to get a vaccine, who thinks it will keep them safe and, if it makes them feel safer then that's great. But it's my body, my choice. Just as it's your body, your choice. 

I also can't understand why people who've had the vaccine are bothered whether we have it or not. Surely if it works then it makes no difference to you if anyone else has it or not. Since Pfizer have recently said that the vaccine never claimed to stop you from catching it, and since every scientist now acknowledges that Covid is being caught and spread by vaccinated people just as readily as unvaccinated people then what's the issue? 

I suspect that the truth that is emerging about the vaccines is unsettling and upsetting to anyone who had thought it was going to save us all from Covid. The growing acceptance of governments around the world that 3rd and 4th boosters will be needed is upsetting and disappointing, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with people who have decided not to get the vaccines.

carbon20 wrote: We are in the middle of a global pandemic,millions have died millions more unable to work..... All bets and " your rights " are off  Health systems all over are crashing ,it's ok for you and me ,locked away in very safe places. The safest and best way is for everyone to get vaccinated...... I have never said I agree with mandates ,I've said those that don't want the vaccine should sign a waiver ,so they won't get hospital treatment if their snake oil remedies don't work, Who said the virus dosnt affect children,lastest I heard MS is caused by having a childhood illness.....who's to say in 10 years all your kids won't get MS or some other illness.....from having C19 Vaccines have saved millions of lives over the last 60 years.... With very few bad out comes for the masses..... In a heath emergency all rights of the individual are null and void...... Mainly because governments take their advice from professionals..... Not the internet or Twitter....... So you will never win ,and no matter which way you say it you come across as very anti Vax...... And if you think your kids will be attending University without a jab think again...... All work places have a "Duty of Care" And I think you will find this will be the norm going forward or getting tested every week for the virus if you haven't been vaccinated.....and then you will have to isolate until you get better or die...... Take care all 😷😉💉

So will you answer the question I asked you about criminal assault? Taking Covid from the equation, was the police reaction to peaceful protest and their filmed assault of handcuffed and incapacitated Australian citizens warranted? Imagine they were peacefully protesting about a new car park being built, is the police reaction reasonable or justified? 

What is a vaccine..??

How does it work ?

IE what is the science behind vaccines ?

To me a vaccine is a safe controlled way of  getting infected with a pathogen.....

It's been proven to work since Edward Jenner in the 1600's.....

,And a vaccine has never fully protected anyone ,if you think otherwise then more fool you ....it's purpose is to stop you getting that sick that you end up in hospital.....

It's not rocket science.....it's really quite simple.....

Take care all 😷😉💉

I didn't see any "peaceful" protests

Everyone here was disgusted at the behaviour of the protesters....

All they doing was spreading the virus....

Prolonging the lockdowns......

They should have heeded the  the lockdown orders .......

They are there for a reason....that being if you heed them we all come out of this quicker........

I felt sorry for the cops.....

Next time the water cannons.....

Take care all 😷😉💉

Well that tells me everything I need to know about you. Thanks.

WitchMisspelled wrote: KiwiMum wrote: What impressed me was that someone - anyone - was prepared to stand up and say that the police brutality in Australia is not ok.  I'm impressed, as I said earlier, by the fact that another country has finally spoken out about the state sanctioned criminal activity that is happening in Australia.  It would have been my last word except for this nifty little piece of gaslighting.   You specified that someone as being the GOP.  Now you're trying to skew what you've already said to include the entirety of my country.  That's gaslighting and I'm calling you out for it.  Yes.  There's a reason my nickname is WitchMisspelled.  You politicized this.  Own it.   FWIW, I can safely say my country is not thinking about police brutality in Australia.  No we have not seen the video.  We've seen enough video of police brutality from our own country.   I'd go into what we are concerned about in Asia Pacific, but that would be politicizing a matter in an inappropriate section of this forum. Oh wait.. you've done that. But then you're a moderator and I suppose your "power"   supersedes the rules.  FluMom went down this path, KiwiMum.  To the point where she picked fights with members.  I realize you're doing it in a way that is more passive aggressive than FM's tactics, but please don't repeat her mistakes. p.s.  Perhaps the reason Carbon didn't answer you at first is because section and this thread is about lock-down, Covid, not the politics of police brutality regarding protesters.  So you didn't learn anything about Carbon.  Except .. okay.. he can be rude... but at least he tried to stay on topic while you kept picking at him.

Seriously, what are you on about? Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. I'm not politicizing anything, let alone gaslighting. I seriously couldn't care less about political affilations in the US. I'm not trying to skew anything. You are picking hairs about the minutiae of the wording I used, and you are purposefully ignoring the meaning of what I said. 

What I was talking about was that someone, anyone, overseas had noticed and commented and made a call for intervention about the multiple video clips that are emerging of state sanctioned criminal assault that is taking place in Australia every single day against peaceful protesters against the Covid mandates. Now I seriously couldn't care less if it's the Mother's Union in Ireland or the GOP in the US, my point is it was someone. 

The rest of the world seems to be ignoring this because it goes against the general narrative, and the mainstream media, on the whole, is loathed to report anti mandate protests for fear of the general unrest spreading. If this activity was being levelled at any other protestors we'd all be up in arms about it and, as uncomfortable as it is to watch, governments around the world are turning a blind eye to what is legally defined as criminal aggravated assault. 

Stop the semanics and see the bigger picture. Good, honest, law abiding citizens in a first world country are exercising their civil and human rights to protest about mandates that are bankrupting many and pushing others into unsustainable debt. 

Don't compare my activity on here with FluMom. She left because she was racist and used the N word and refused to apologise. 

As for being a moderator, I'm happy to move this thread to a political forum if the majority think it should be there, but you are reading meaning into my words that I did not put there. This thread is listed under latest news and if it's morphed into a thread about Covid protests well, that's still latest news and disease related, so it's in the right place. 

And don't threaten me Witchy. I've always viewed threats as the last resort of people who are not capable of properly forming or articulating an intelligent verbal response. Surely you are better than that?

And let's address your accusations of me picking fights with other members. I'm not. I'm trying to discuss things on a site where discussion has practically dried up because apparently discussion now involves complete agreement. 

The elderly, newly woke, community on here can't bear the thought that they may have been sold a pup and so insult, shout down or plain deny the emerging scientific evidence that those precious vaccines are not the be it and end all that they were touted to be. 

When I first heard about the vaccines, I genuinely hoped they would work. It's disappointing that they don't. I accept, and can see, that they can reduce the chances of a serious illness and death in the elderly but they are not infallible and they don't work alone. People still die even when they are double jabbed. My friends father died about 2 weeks ago and he was double jabbed. My father is double jabbed and will his 3rd vaccine when it's offered to him and that's a great move for him.

What ever happened to an open mind? What ever happened to someone being able to put across the other side of an argument without being insulted? All you seem to be able to do is to label me an anti vaxxer and try and "call me out" over ridiculous, meaningless things. You don't appear to be able to discuss anything rationally like an educated adult, which I'm sure you are. For some reason Covid is so polarizing and causing such anger (based in fear according to psychologists) that rational discussion has gone out the window. 

Finally as for your accusation that I'm picking on Carbon, frankly that's laughable. He's happy to sweep in with strong statements and his passive aggressive sign off of take care all, but he's not happy to discuss them. He has stated above that water cannons should be turned on protestors so obviously he supports the police brutality that's going on. He's not prepared to say otherwise, so what other conclusion can be reached with the information at hand?

And police brutality isn't a political issue, it's an infringement of the civil and human rights that the police are there to enforce. So if anything it makes it far, far, worse that it is the police who are on the attack. 

When the allied troops swept into Germany as they won the second world war, they rounded up the German people in the towns bordering the concentration camps and they frog marched them up there to see first hand what atrocities had been committed. They all knew what was going on and they chose to turn a blind eye to it, to their eternal shame. And frankly shame on anyone who thinks what we are seeing in Australia is acceptable on any level. 

It might be levelled against covid protests today, but tomorrow it might be levelled against something that you yourself want to protest against. Once they get away with this kind of behaviour unchallenged, you can bet your last dollar they will use the same tactics in the future. Now it might not matter to Carbon, who is a British expat living in Perth and probably retired with his nice boomer pension and investments, but what about to all the mom and pop businesses out there of good people trying to earn a living and pay their mortgage? People who just want to pay their bills and raise their families?

We have a right to earn a living and the latest scientific evidence doesn't support the stringent, unwielding and unproductive lockdowns that are being imposed by petty bureaucrats who have become dazzled by their sudden power. Interestingly enough, Gladys Berejiklian, Sydney's premier has resigned today and good riddance.

No wonder most people don't bother to post on here, all they get is name calling and abuse. Years ago this site had varied and lively discussion. Not any more.

KiwiMum wrote: WitchMisspelled wrote: KiwiMum wrote: What impressed me was that someone - anyone - was prepared to stand up and say that the police brutality in Australia is not ok.  I'm impressed, as I said earlier, by the fact that another country has finally spoken out about the state sanctioned criminal activity that is happening in Australia.  It would have been my last word except for this nifty little piece of gaslighting.   You specified that someone as being the GOP.  Now you're trying to skew what you've already said to include the entirety of my country.  That's gaslighting and I'm calling you out for it.  Yes.  There's a reason my nickname is WitchMisspelled.  You politicized this.  Own it.   FWIW, I can safely say my country is not thinking about police brutality in Australia.  No we have not seen the video.  We've seen enough video of police brutality from our own country.   I'd go into what we are concerned about in Asia Pacific, but that would be politicizing a matter in an inappropriate section of this forum. Oh wait.. you've done that. But then you're a moderator and I suppose your "power"   supersedes the rules.  FluMom went down this path, KiwiMum.  To the point where she picked fights with members.  I realize you're doing it in a way that is more passive aggressive than FM's tactics, but please don't repeat her mistakes. p.s.  Perhaps the reason Carbon didn't answer you at first is because section and this thread is about lock-down, Covid, not the politics of police brutality regarding protesters.  So you didn't learn anything about Carbon.  Except .. okay.. he can be rude... but at least he tried to stay on topic while you kept picking at him.       Seriously, what are you on about? Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. I'm not politicizing anything, let alone gaslighting. I seriously couldn't care less about political affilations in the US. I'm not trying to skew anything. You are picking hairs about the minutiae of the wording I used, and you are purposefully ignoring the meaning of what I said.  What I was talking about was that someone, anyone, overseas had noticed and commented and made a call for intervention about the multiple video clips that are emerging of state sanctioned criminal assault that is taking place in Australia every single day against peaceful protesters against the Covid mandates. Now I seriously couldn't care less if it's the Mother's Union in Ireland or the GOP in the US, my point is it was someone.  The rest of the world seems to be ignoring this because it goes against the general narrative, and the mainstream media, on the whole, is loathed to report anti mandate protests for fear of the general unrest spreading. If this activity was being levelled at any other protestors we'd all be up in arms about it and, as uncomfortable as it is to watch, governments around the world are turning a blind eye to what is legally defined as criminal aggravated assault.  Stop the semanics and see the bigger picture. Good, honest, law abiding citizens in a first world country are exercising their civil and human rights to protest about mandates that are bankrupting many and pushing others into unsustainable debt.  Don't compare my activity on here with FluMom. She left because she was racist and used the N word and refused to apologise.  As for being a moderator, I'm happy to move this thread to a political forum if the majority think it should be there, but you are reading meaning into my words that I did not put there. This thread is listed under latest news and if it's morphed into a thread about Covid protests well, that's still latest news and disease related, so it's in the right place.  And don't threaten me Witchy. I've always viewed threats as the last resort of people who are not capable of properly forming or articulating an intelligent verbal response. Surely you are better than that? And let's address your accusations of me picking fights with other members. I'm not. I'm trying to discuss things on a site where discussion has practically dried up because apparently discussion now involves complete agreement.  The elderly, newly woke, community on here can't bear the thought that they may have been sold a pup and so insult, shout down or plain deny the emerging scientific evidence that those precious vaccines are not the be it and end all that they were touted to be.  When I first heard about the vaccines, I genuinely hoped they would work. It's disappointing that they don't. I accept, and can see, that they can reduce the chances of a serious illness and death in the elderly but they are not infallible and they don't work alone. People still die even when they are double jabbed. My friends father died about 2 weeks ago and he was double jabbed. My father is double jabbed and will his 3rd vaccine when it's offered to him and that's a great move for him. What ever happened to an open mind? What ever happened to someone being able to put across the other side of an argument without being insulted? All you seem to be able to do is to label me an anti vaxxer and try and "call me out" over ridiculous, meaningless things. You don't appear to be able to discuss anything rationally like an educated adult, which I'm sure you are. For some reason Covid is so polarizing and causing such anger (based in fear according to psychologists) that rational discussion has gone out the window.  Finally as for your accusation that I'm picking on Carbon, frankly that's laughable. He's happy to sweep in with strong statements and his passive aggressive sign off of take care all, but he's not happy to discuss them. He has stated above that water cannons should be turned on protestors so obviously he supports the police brutality that's going on. He's not prepared to say otherwise, so what other conclusion can be reached with the information at hand? And police brutality isn't a political issue, it's an infringement of the civil and human rights that the police are there to enforce. So if anything it makes it far, far, worse that it is the police who are on the attack.  When the allied troops swept into Germany as they won the second world war, they rounded up the German people in the towns bordering the concentration camps and they frog marched them up there to see first hand what atrocities had been committed. They all knew what was going on and they chose to turn a blind eye to it, to their eternal shame. And frankly shame on anyone who thinks what we are seeing in Australia is acceptable on any level.  It might be levelled against covid protests today, but tomorrow it might be levelled against something that you yourself want to protest against. Once they get away with this kind of behaviour unchallenged, you can bet your last dollar they will use the same tactics in the future. Now it might not matter to Carbon, who is a British expat living in Perth and probably retired with his nice boomer pension and investments, but what about to all the mom and pop businesses out there of good people trying to earn a living and pay their mortgage? People who just want to pay their bills and raise their families? We have a right to earn a living and the latest scientific evidence doesn't support the stringent, unwielding and unproductive lockdowns that are being imposed by petty bureaucrats who have become dazzled by their sudden power. Interestingly enough, Gladys Berejiklian, Sydney's premier has resigned today and good riddance. No wonder most people don't bother to post on here, all they get is name calling and abuse. Years ago this site had varied and lively discussion. Not any more.

If you honestly believed I was threatening you and calling you names and that we should all just understand what you mean instead of what you actually post,  then perhaps its time to involve Albert and/or JacksDad.

this is kind of interesting.  But really, if you don't want to go thru what i went thru then vaccinate yourself.   BTW, the  bill is now 13 million dollars. 

Yep. Victim.  

I had an interesting thought regarding the vaccine......

I think we have touched on whether a slate wiper would save the planet from the disaster of climate change, IE knock off a few billion of us humans......

Would it really be a bad thing for the planet, if the vaccine sterilized all those that took it ??

Sorry for throwing that one out there.....lol

 watch too much SF........

Take care all 😷😉💉

Well it's the nature of almost every flu like disease to pick up off the older and more vulnerable people isn't it? That's just the way it works. Nobody's suggesting that's a good thing, it's just that's how it is. From an economist's view point, it is also beneficial to the balance sheet. Older, disabled and vulnerable people cost society more in healthcare costs than fit healthy younger people, although perhaps not in America where people need to have health insurance. 

And from the point of view of corporate pension funds that don't have enough money in them, a thinning out of the number of claimants would be a definite plus. I'm not saying I'm for it (before you jump down my throat and overreact) but that's a well known fact. Ever since pension pots have been regarded as cash assets by companies who pin their future on exponential growth - which simply can't be sustained as we've all found out to our cost - the pension funds are woefully underfunded and people are already discovering that the payouts they were promised are simply never going to materialise.