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PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
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Now tracking the new emerging South Africa Omicron Variant

Internet outage likely ?

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Dutch Josh View Drop Down
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    Posted: November 25 2021 at 2:35am

DJ-Like in any major crisis (like a war) communication priority goes to crisis-management. Since crowd control is also part of crisis management I expect that further worsening of this pandemic will "limit" internet/communications. 

Spread of non-info, fake news has been an internet related problem since-in fact-internet started. Here in NL (not so) ocial media" did and do play a role in (organizing) riots...This has been seen in many countries. 

Healthcare collapse may have exponential effects on society. Security will get (over)stretched. I expect smaller hospitals may be "given up" so the staff will be employed in "central care centers" that can get "good security"....

Panic should be expected...Lots of people did NOT see this collapse coming, did not think it could happen (and "it should not be this way" ). 

Logistics, getting food into the supermarkets, could become a "challange"...with also staff there "under pressure"....

On the background "climate collapse" -we did see extreme rainfall in lots of area's-will also be a factor. 

Security by government may go to essentials; healthcare, logistics-of-essentials, power/water(control)....(Household violence allready is a growing pandemic related problem). 

Having "some storage" may be wise...spread over the house...Making a "safe place" in the house could be as well...I hope it will NOT be needed...(just me going paranoid...). I still have loads of books, an old woolen blanket...food/drink...so I could survive a "retreat"...accepting not being "informed" may even bring some calm....

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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KiwiMum View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2021 at 12:28pm

How are things in the Netherlands Josh? I heard this morning about a distant relative of mine who was attacked on the streets there by a group of right wing militants and needed hospital treatment for her injuries. She's a Dutch citizen and was just going about her business at the time and it was an unprovoked attack. She's now too frightened to go home and so is moving out to her parents farm. 

Your post is very interesting because removing access to information is an effect way to remove power from the populace. I hope it doesn't happen. It would be very isolating.

"Once you've decided that something's absolutely true, you've closed your mind on it, and a closed mind doesn't go anywhere. Question everything. That's what education's all about." ~ David Eddings
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Dutch Josh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2021 at 9:46pm

KiwiMum, I hope your relative can recover from streetviolence...Spending cuts on public services did result in police being overstretched by far...

We allready have [url]https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/online-disinformation[/url] or https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/online-disinformation ; The Commission is tackling the spread of online disinformation and misinformation to ensure the protection of European values and democratic systems.

And there are lots of other ways to deal with "unwelcome websites" (The Romans, Watergate did know how to use tax services to silence opposition...for internet sites putting unwanted content on it (by government agencies) could be another way to silence "unwelcome info"...). 

In this pandemic what kind of info governments may not be "welcoming"....To be honest I think they allow a lot of garbage...they do not have the capacity to control it as long as it is in a sort of subculture...However when that subculture interacts with other sites/media, like insulting experts, threats, etc. we do so (police) action. From a message being deleted to "producers of threats" ending up in jail...I do not have major problems with that as long as the proces is transparant (clear what is the accusation, proof etc. penalty is reasonable...). 

Where is the problem ? 

-In latest news there was a link on vaccine safety/hearthproblems...I did see that story also on flutrackers earlier...believing it was from a "real lab"...[url]https://www.avianflutalk.com/research-finds-vaxx-increases-acs-risk-127_topic44360.html[/url] or https://www.avianflutalk.com/research-finds-vaxx-increases-acs-risk-127_topic44360.html could be total non-sense ? Or partly/fully correct ? If some countries allow people to call themselves "a lab", lack of regulations can end up with "fake studies" from "fake labs" paid by other groups for their reasons...

-Vaccine protection is decreasing. There are risks in vaccination...most likely limited for most. The way I see it we may get to a point where vaccination risks may become larger then vaccination benefits....With both Delta and new variants allready moving towards immunity evasion (and vaccines not that effective in older people...taking longer-on average-to offer protection) we may reach a point/have come to the point where (at least for some) there may be grounds to advise against vaccination....

It is science/experts role to do so ! Problem with that is science often can be months behind the facts...Immunologists, virologists do have a lot of knowledge...but also procedures ...statistics can give early warning...Who is doing that warning ? 

-Here in Europe we are moving into an avalanche of cases, soon very likely resulting-for NL in "hundreds of deaths per day"....There was news on helicopter desks being prepared at major hospitals...for some hospitals. Other hospitals did take such action in april 2020...

My speculation is there will be plans to use footballstadiums, some other buildings (hotels) as low-care hospitals...

DJ Control of info is part of crisiscontrol...With the internet "everybody can become a reporter"...Limiting non-government reporting on this crisis however goes against public interests...

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ME163 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2021 at 10:04pm

DJ, just passing thru,  hope everything gets sorted out.  Maybe you need a shortwave radio or two.  I use one everyday for alternative news.  I have solar power too.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2021 at 10:18pm

An internet outage would also really affect the mental health of young people. They seem to be surgically attached to their phones and certainly looking at my teenagers, an outage would adversely affect them. They rely on their phones to keep in touch with the world and their friends.

"Once you've decided that something's absolutely true, you've closed your mind on it, and a closed mind doesn't go anywhere. Question everything. That's what education's all about." ~ David Eddings
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2021 at 10:25pm

I suppose as the current wave is hitting western Europe and as Covid-19 continues to burn its way through eastern Europe (and as the days get shorter here) I am feeling more pessimistic than before.  Also as the pandemic drags on people's patience is waning due to all the restrictions.

Personally I hope that things hold together over the Christmas period when my children are due to visit (from UK and Czechia).  I haven't seen them since before the pandemic started, and it will be an emotional blow if their flights are cancelled at the last minute. [My wife is not in a condition to travel, so I couldn't visit them until she is placed in a care home (but there are no plans for that at this stage)] .


If the internet goes down I am not sure what I will do with all the spare time on my hands. I wonder if I would get bored enough to clean the house   Actually, I have plenty of old fashioned paper and ink books to (re-)read. I don't depend a lot on e-commmerce so that would not be too hard (until the local stores can't restock because they depend on the internet).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2021 at 10:33pm

KiwiMum...to put this outage in the right perspective...it is just me starting this discussion...Very likely governments may try to get more control over the internet....

There may be technical reasons for outages...(when you try to make a phonecall at 00.00 hrs december 31/january 1 you may see a problem as well...). 

[url]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/05/the-personal-and-economic-cost-of-kashmirs-internet-ban[/url] or https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/05/the-personal-and-economic-cost-of-kashmirs-internet-ban and [url]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/15/turkey-blocking-social-facebook-twitter-youtube[/url] or https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/15/turkey-blocking-social-facebook-twitter-youtube are just two recent examples of governments taking out the internet during "crisis"....

A very good reason NOT to take the internet out is that it will increase unrest...

Here in NL working from home in some regions did see internet problems...

Internet needs a lot of workers...if they get ill small disruptions can become major problems...Also internet-crime may get a bigger problem...

I think internet is very (way to much) vulnerable...another "city build on melting ice"...An explosive increase of CoViD-cases does increase internet-risks a.o. And solving that problem starts with being aware of that problem...(Less access may reduce risks...etc.). 

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2021 at 2:02am

Rather than pull the plug on the whole of the internet, would those in authority just block the addresses of some of the social media sites?  

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KiwiMum View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2021 at 8:34pm

There is no one in authority where the internet is concerned. No one runs it and no one controls it. That's the fun of it and also the downside of it.

"Once you've decided that something's absolutely true, you've closed your mind on it, and a closed mind doesn't go anywhere. Question everything. That's what education's all about." ~ David Eddings
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2021 at 11:13pm

In early 2020 governments around the globe allowed CoVid flying around that globe for free. That insanity was based on advise from "experts"..

In april this year "Delta" became the main "product"exported from India...also "flying for free-for weeks" ...Governments looked the other way...saving the economy...

In november-this month-AGAIN ! Third time-free travel around the globe-this time for Omicron...but "only in vaccinated passengers" ...

This is beyond stupid, criminal ignorance from "our leaders"...

Of course people should explode over this...

Governments may name this anger "disinformation" and "protect the nation" by "controlling the internet" so the "news" can be made "fitting" ;

"vaccines most likely still works, only mild disease" bla-bla...Or will it be "technical malfunction"? 

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2021 at 2:05pm

The sad truth is that countries can order ISPs of social media to whole providers to be shut down.  Take Africa and China as examples.  So what you're saying Kiwimum isn't quite accurate.  It would be hard to do for sure, and there are those who are tech savvy enough to circumvent the shut downs, but not the entire population.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2021 at 11:21am

Certain countries do censor the internet content that their citizens can see but they manage this because the internet flows into those countries via bottle necks, and disseminates once it's through the door, so to speak. What is a gamechanger however, is the rise of satelite internet like Starlink. With this, you beam directly into space from your house when you upload, and your internet content is beamed down to your house from space, entirely without interference from any national restrictions. Even if the whole of the internet was shut off at the points of entry at your borders, you could still have full internet access. You've probably seen the Starlink satelites go over your house. We watch them here every now and then. You can go on line and look at where they they are if you're interested. They look amazing.

"Once you've decided that something's absolutely true, you've closed your mind on it, and a closed mind doesn't go anywhere. Question everything. That's what education's all about." ~ David Eddings
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