Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
Is Covid19 more a blood disease than Respiratory? |
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DeepThinker
V.I.P. Member Joined: September 26 2015 Location: So. California Status: Offline Points: 3245 |
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Posted: April 05 2020 at 4:42pm |
https://emcrit.org/emcrit/stop-kneejerk-intubation/ Maybe intubating patients are causing far more harm than good. Anecdotally it appears that COVID19 doesn't actually cause ARD, but what it does it impairs your bloods ability to carry oxygen. The best I can understand it messes with the iron somehow. Italian doctors have talked about this and now some doctors in New York are also talking about it. The symptoms look a lot like high altitude hypoxia. It may explain why chloroquine helps, malaria is a blood disease. It also explains why so few patients recover after being put on a ventilator. We are treating this how we have treated respiratory distress for decades, but this is a brand new disease. Are we dong more harm than good? https://mobile.twitter.com/EricLeeMD/status/1245054768185303041/photo/1 |
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DeepThinker
V.I.P. Member Joined: September 26 2015 Location: So. California Status: Offline Points: 3245 |
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CRS, DrPH
Expert Level Adviser Joined: January 20 2014 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 26660 |
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Thank you, that is intriguing research! |
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CRS, DrPH
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Hazelpad
Adviser Group Joined: September 09 2014 Status: Offline Points: 6910 |
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Hello Deep Thinker, They are also exploring possibility that this virus like other coronaviruses can infect the CNS and negatively impact respiratory control and feedback mechanisms, causing blood biochemistry to rapidly become deranged and accelerated clinical decline. ( I include links to evidence for and against). i.e. a 2 prong attack from virus. 1) problems due to direct viral damage to airways 2) exacerbated by indirect brain damage by virus to breathing control centre in brain. Blood borne is interesting. Blood borne tends to activate the peripheral immune system which involves peripheral lymph nodes and the spleen, rather than the common mucosal immune system that involves lymph nodes of the gut and respiratory. Both immune systems ( blood and mucosal ), are actually very different, though they do interact. The mucosal ( including respiratory), is much more influenced by microbiotic make up of host so is more variable in response even in genetically similar individuals. I would still think of it being predominantly a respiratory pathogen, but once they can get some tracing on it then it will become clearer. I may be wrong and it is interesting and plausible view you put forward. For example how does the virus get to the CNS is it via blood, or is it directly via ofactory route. Concerning Chloroquine. In vitro studies has historically shown chloroquinine to have strong antiviral properties, but the drug has always failed when trying to use it in humans for this purpose. Hep C , HIV all tried but though it clearly killed virus in cell culture, human trials were always disappointing. With Covid19 Virus uses one of the human polymerases for replication that works within a very limited pH. Chloroquine appears to be able to raise the intracellular pH enough to inhibit this polymerase and decrease viral replication. However chloroquine also causes immunosuppression which is why it's used in autoimmune treatments like SLE. Trying to get dosage right to balance viral killing Vs immunosuppression will be a challenge. Chloroquinine never reached its antiviral potential in the past because if this. Maybe this time it will be different. Medcram on YouTube have fantastic information on the actions of chloroquine in Covid 19, much better that I can give so look those up if interested. Excellent points you raise. Hz x Nervous system involvement after infection with COVID-19 and other coronaviruses - Evidence for CNS damage inhibiting respiration in Covid19 Evidence of the COVID-19 Virus Targeting the CNS: Tissue Distribution, Host-Virus Interaction, and Proposed Neurotropic Mechanisms. - PubMed - NCBIhttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/32167747 Evidence against CNS damage inhibiting respiratory in Covid19 19 Respiratory failure alone does not suggest central nervous system invasion by SARS-CoV-2. - PubMed - NCBIhttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/32246782 |
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Newbie1A
Adviser Group Joined: January 26 2018 Location: Alberta Status: Offline Points: 11180 |
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If it's to be - it's up to me!
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CRS, DrPH
Expert Level Adviser Joined: January 20 2014 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 26660 |
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I found this, it seems to convincingly refute this theory: |
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CRS, DrPH
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FluMom
Adviser Group Valued Member Since 2006 Joined: February 03 2020 Location: Colorado Status: Offline Points: 14695 |
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Ok, so it does not bind to blood. Question is is the theory on O blood get less sick still true? |
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