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Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

Is Covid19 more a blood disease than Respiratory?

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DeepThinker View Drop Down
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    Posted: April 05 2020 at 4:42pm

https://emcrit.org/emcrit/stop-kneejerk-intubation/

Maybe intubating patients are causing far more harm than good.  Anecdotally it appears that COVID19 doesn't actually cause ARD, but what it does it impairs your bloods ability to carry oxygen.  The best I can understand it messes with the iron somehow.   Italian doctors have talked about this and now some doctors in New York are also talking about it.  The symptoms look a lot like high altitude hypoxia.

It may explain why chloroquine helps, malaria is a blood disease.    It also explains why so few patients recover after being put on a ventilator.

We are treating this how we have treated respiratory distress for decades, but this is a brand new disease.  Are we dong more harm than good?


https://mobile.twitter.com/EricLeeMD/status/1245054768185303041/photo/1

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DeepThinker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2020 at 4:54pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2020 at 7:31pm

Thank you, that is intriguing research!  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hazelpad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2020 at 11:31pm

Hello Deep Thinker,

They are also exploring possibility that this virus like other coronaviruses can infect the CNS and negatively impact respiratory control and feedback mechanisms, causing blood biochemistry to rapidly become deranged and accelerated clinical  decline.  ( I include links to evidence for and against).  i.e. a 2 prong attack from virus. 

1) problems due to direct viral damage to airways

2) exacerbated by indirect brain damage by virus to breathing control centre in brain.


Blood borne is interesting.  Blood borne tends to activate the peripheral immune system which involves peripheral lymph nodes and the spleen, rather than the common mucosal immune system that involves lymph nodes of the gut and respiratory.   Both immune systems ( blood and mucosal ), are actually very different,  though they do interact. 

  The mucosal ( including respiratory), is much more influenced by microbiotic make up of host so is more variable in response even in genetically similar individuals.  I would still think of it being predominantly a respiratory pathogen, but once they can get some tracing on it then it will become clearer.  I may be wrong and it is  interesting and plausible view you put forward.  For example how does the virus get to the CNS is it via blood, or is it directly via ofactory route.


Concerning Chloroquine.

In vitro studies has historically shown chloroquinine to have strong antiviral properties, but the drug has always failed when trying to use it in humans for this purpose.  Hep C , HIV all tried but though it clearly killed virus in cell culture,  human trials were always disappointing. 

With Covid19  Virus  uses one of the human polymerases for replication that works within a very limited pH.  Chloroquine appears to be able to raise the intracellular pH enough to inhibit this polymerase and decrease viral replication.  However chloroquine also causes immunosuppression which is why it's used in autoimmune treatments like SLE.  Trying to get dosage right to balance viral killing Vs immunosuppression will be a challenge.  Chloroquinine never reached its antiviral potential in the past because if this.  Maybe this time it will be different.

Medcram on YouTube have fantastic information on the actions of chloroquine in Covid 19,  much better that I can give so look those up if interested. 

Excellent points you raise.

Hz x


Nervous system involvement after infection with COVID-19 and other coronaviruses - 

Evidence for CNS  damage inhibiting respiration in Covid19

Evidence of the COVID-19 Virus Targeting the CNS: Tissue Distribution, Host-Virus Interaction, and Proposed Neurotropic Mechanisms. - PubMed - NCBIhttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/32167747

Evidence against CNS damage inhibiting respiratory in Covid19 19

Respiratory failure alone does not suggest central nervous system invasion by SARS-CoV-2. - PubMed - NCBIhttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/32246782

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Newbie1A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2020 at 8:28am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 15 2020 at 11:51am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FluMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 15 2020 at 2:47pm

Ok, so it does not bind to blood.  Question is is the theory on O blood get less sick still true?

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