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PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
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Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic; Coronavirus Pandemic Discussion Forum.

Is this overblown?

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KiwiMum View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2020 at 10:55pm

Originally posted by ClapBack ClapBack wrote:

For them, it's all about saving their investments and how they are entitled to the young's last breath to save their investments.

All the media is focusing on the danger to the old, when in fact there is increasing evidence to suggest that the young can be as severely affected and can die from it too. I agree that there is far too much talk of investments. You simply can't put a price on human life. And you could very successfully argue that it's more important to preserve the lives of the younger people, who may well have young children at home who need them to survive. I have two boys at home and too young to drive. I'm taking this very seriously.

You can't fix stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2020 at 10:59pm

Originally posted by interwebber interwebber wrote:

They took care of us. Time for us to take care of them. No offense, but you sound like someone with an inheritance coming. As a responsible X-gener, I will protect my parents at all costs from this thing. 

On the contrary, Claptrap is worried about self preservation, that's not entitlement that's common sense. As for sacrificing myself for my elderly parents - I wouldn't. And what's more, they wouldn't want me to. They've had their life and I'm in the prime of mine with children still at home who rely on me and my husband for their survival. What kind of screwed up elderly person would ask us to risk our lives for them? Only a very selfish one.

You can't fix stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2020 at 11:01pm

Originally posted by carbon20 carbon20 wrote:

I don't suppose any of you Yanks have watched our prime minister giving his covid19 briefs,

There is a vast differenence how both leaders are addressing this, 

I Give out PM 10 out of 10 and our opposition  party  10 out of 10 for backing PM

Aussies are pulling together, everyone is heeding the goverments advice,

Make me very Proud of my Fellow AUSSIES

And of Our Prime Minister ,

whose party I never vote for ,but at this time it's time for all to pull together,

We have been told that this is here for months....

That's the truth 

Well said Carbon. NZ's prime minister is being just as responsible and the opposition is backing her to the hilt. It's time for all parties to pull together and for the populace to support them. A poll yesterday showed that 93% of Kiwis fully support the four week lockdown we're starting today. 

Thank heavens we both live in the bottom of the Southern Hemisphere - far away from the Northern hemisphere and the madness that is about to erupt there.

You can't fix stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote interwebber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2020 at 11:10pm

Originally posted by KiwiMum KiwiMum wrote:

Originally posted by interwebber interwebber wrote:

They took care of us. Time for us to take care of them. No offense, but you sound like someone with an inheritance coming. As a responsible X-gener, I will protect my parents at all costs from this thing. 

On the contrary, Claptrap is worried about self preservation, that's not entitlement that's common sense. As for sacrificing myself for my elderly parents - I wouldn't. And what's more, they wouldn't want me to. They've had their life and I'm in the prime of mine with children still at home who rely on me and my husband for their survival. What kind of screwed up elderly person would ask us to risk our lives for them? Only a very selfish one.

It's not either or. I still have children at home as well, and am very worried about them, and my wife and I. We can protect those most at risk while still minimizing the risk to all of us. Like stop public shaming of wearing masks and transition to online schooling of kids. I support all these things. I'm just not a fan of saying let's sacrifice the old for the young. There needs to be a balance in all of this. Calling out Flumom to go back to work to support the economy and put "skin" in the game IMO is just mean spirited and not necessary...

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2020 at 11:49pm

Originally posted by FluMom FluMom wrote:

I think the President is correct give it until Easter to keep people home they let the younger people go back to work with some restrictions on gathering places and businesses one rotations of some kind to keep people at a distance.  Old people and people with medical problems isolate.  That is what I am planning on until August.  Old folks home care takers use PPE to keep the old people well.  This can be done I thing by Easter too.  I am willing at 70 to stay home for the youth to go back to work!

No.  Don't forget, the medical evidence points to fecal/oral transmission as well as aerosol from close contact.  That is why the Diamond Princess cruise boat experience was so bad.  We cannot mingle exposed/incubating cases with non-immune cases.  That path is suicide.  

My colleague, Dr. Marc Lipsitch, discusses what we need to do in this article:

a) test everybody - some folks will have immunity & will be able to work immediately, some will be positive and should be quarantined until they prove recovery/immunity, and make sure that we protect the vulnerable (immune compromised, elderly etc.)

b) go slowly - pushing this outbreak will only cause much higher deaths and economic misery. 

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/03/finding-ways-to-forge-through-the-covid-19-pandemic/?utm_source=SilverpopMailing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Daily%2520Gazette%252020200323%2520%281%29

As the coronoavirus pandemic spreads and hunkered-down Americans wonder when and how they’ll get back on the job, a Harvard epidemiologist said a second type of test being developed could clear for work the small but rising numbers of those previously infected, and thus immune to the virus.

Marc Lipsitch, director of the Center for Communicable Disease Dynamics at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, said development and use of serological testing — which is already done routinely to check exposure to other pathogens — could help identify those who may be immune.

Lipsitch, speaking in a media conference call on Friday, said there’s no reason the second wave of testing should have to wait for completion of the first round  involving people suspected of having COVID-19. Serological testing, which may be even possible to do at home, could identify those who had been infected but had mild or no symptoms. Similar tests reportedly have been performed in China and other countries, and U.S. researchers such as Florian Krammer at Mount Sinai’s Icahn School of Medicine have developed a serological test for coronavirus, though it still needs to be scaled up for mass use.

“There’s no reason why we have to wait for one [test] to do the other,” Lipsitch said. “The value would be potentially tremendous if we had a workforce that was growing as the epidemic progressed that could safely go back into various jobs — including health care workers.”

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ClapBack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2020 at 6:00am

It's nothing but funny to read the insulting view of young people that FluMom ( and others ) expressed several times while she ( and they ) also tossed out the expectation that the same young that she ( and they) look down on take all of her ( and their) risk. And why? For her ( and their ) investments' sake.

Yet someone who clapbacks to that disgusting dollars-over-death hypocrisy and entitlement is the "mean-spirited" one who is motivated by "self-preservation". That's ripe. That's really ripe... 

Have you people actually read what FluMom wrote? Did you read her long admonishment of nearly facet of the youngs' lives before she tossed them on the front line for the sake of the economy?

Worse, as she advocates a policy based on the death of the young for the preservation of the economy,y, there's not even the decency of an expression of gratitude that young people would go out and support the economy/her pension and build the herd immunity she is dependent on to leave her home in the future and enjoy the investments the young would save for her. Instead her words are all condescending about the young's entitlement, lifestyles, and bad parenting skills. I mean, it's not like she doesn't make it obvious about how she feels about the very people she wants to toss into the lion's den while she watches their fight for survival on the other side of the fence. And, when ya do that, it's pretty obvious that you are looking at the people you speak about that way as worthless to the point of being expendable.

Damn, there's a lot of smelling your own farts here. ( Looking forward to reading the upcoming posts that say, "saying we"smell our own farts is so vulgar and crass" pearl clutching. But hey, that's the kind of stuff that helps you rationalize us  becoming severely ill and, in some cases, dying to save your money, right?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote cobber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2020 at 6:23am

Trump can be bombastic, but he has a habit of being correct over the longer term. 

As much as i think he's wrong. He has some very intelligent people advising him. 


Personally I've always though of the virus as a powderpuff. I think its overblown by the media. Dont get me wrong. I know its killing people and its worse than the flu, but not much worse than the flu. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Usk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2020 at 8:09am

Once again clapback tell us how you really feel’. Your personal attack on Flumom shows you have some deep seated need to vent your hurt. Just not sure this is the best place for it. Why doesn’t anyone listen to what techno is writing.   Lets focus on what the individual can do to help the situation rather then engage in generation X bashing and over 60 bashing. I want  to add that those investment  we are protecting are so that my grandchildrendonothavetogodepIntodebtfortheireducation

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Newbie1A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2020 at 8:28am

Originally posted by cobber cobber wrote:

Trump can be bombastic, but he has a habit of being correct over the longer term. 

As much as i think he's wrong. He has some very intelligent people advising him. 


Personally I've always though of the virus as a powderpuff. I think its overblown by the media. Dont get me wrong. I know its killing people and its worse than the flu, but not much worse than the flu. 


I keep looking at the numbers and it just doesn't sit right with me - the reaction to this vs the numbers... I understand the exponential features of this, but if huge numbers are asymptomatic or really mild (and it seems like the younger you are the better chance of not being serious/deadly) then are we following 'overblown' type headlines and worrying about a disease, novel as it is/going to kill lots on first & poss. second wave...but are we reacting to overblown statistics?  Like I said, something just doesn't sit right with me about all this.  Tin foil hats get better reception??? Is Covid the scrape goat for dying world economy, or the blame for food shortages or...??? I realize this is in some ways another whole conversation (if you feel like reaction is overblown then it's not), but looking back after first wave goes through - what do you think is coming?


If it's to be - it's up to me!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Newbie1A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2020 at 8:29am
If it's to be - it's up to me!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2020 at 1:24pm

Hong Kong - a region supremely qualified when it comes to experiencing novel disease outbreaks - just relaxed it’s social distancing requirements, and it’s numbers doubled in a few days. This should convince anyone that doing the same thing here is sheer folly.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2020 at 1:33pm

Originally posted by jacksdad jacksdad wrote:

Hong Kong - a region supremely qualified when it comes to handling novel disease outbreaks - just relaxed it’s social distancing requirements, and it’s numbers doubled in a few days. This should convince anyone that doing the same thing here is sheer folly.

Italy should be warning enough for any country. It's an absolute disaster over there. 700 deaths a day and counting. The virus is bad enough even if many people are getting a mild version, but it's all the people who need help that are the worrying part of it. There will just be lots of people dying who, if the numbers were kept low, could be helped and recover. Unnecessary deaths. I wouldn't want to be a doctor or a nurse right now.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sheep Lady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2020 at 2:40pm

Originally posted by Albert Albert wrote:

Trump in the briefing today said that the flu is far worse, and more people die in car accdients.   

Clear White House message - is that the flu is worse and this is overblown. 

Not sure what to think.  Is Trump correct, and yes he is major conman lol, but is he doing a con or is thing basically over as he claims?  Would love for this to be over as he is saying. 

Any thoughts?

I think we are getting the true picture of what is going on from the HCW who have shared their recent shift experiences.  I would trust their input 100% over .gov.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2020 at 3:43pm

Originally posted by KiwiMum KiwiMum wrote:

[QUOTE=jacksdad]

Hong Kong - a region supremely qualified when it comes to handling novel disease outbreaks - just relaxed it’s social distancing requirements, and it’s numbers doubled in a few days. This should convince anyone that doing the same thing here is sheer folly.

Italy should be warning enough for any country. It's an absolute disaster over there. 700 deaths a day and counting. The virus is bad enough even if many people are getting a mild version, but it's all the people who need help that are the worrying part of it. There will just be lots of people dying who, if the numbers were kept low, could be helped and recover. Unnecessary deaths. I wouldn't want to be a doctor or a nurse right now.

,You both took the words out of my mouth...

700 a day and Spain just as bad.....

Take care 

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PS.not used to this quote thing on phone, sorry, Kwimum ,I'll get it right next time lol

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2020 at 9:49pm

1600 people die a day in Italy. They have one of the oldest populations. 

Now instead of these people dying from other diseases they are now dying of corona. 


This thing is super overblown. I just wish we could all get back to work. 

I reckon more people will die from the market down turn. The cure is worse than the disease.


Cooler heads need to prevail. We all need to stop this quarantine garbage. It should only be limited to over 60's and people with health issues. Everyone else go to work, get sick and get the hell on with things...  


I've called this a powderpuff from day one. Its still a Powderpuff...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2020 at 11:15pm

Cobber, maybe when things are a bit more down the road we could look at the different models used in the Scandinavian countries.  Most have gone for radical distancing and lock down [here in Finland they have announced there will be travel restrictions into and out of the capital region].  However, Sweden had gone more for the model of 'ring fencing' the high risk groups.  


It is too early to start saying which model was the best, but this will be a good case study for many years to come as we debate different approaches.  Right now, it is hard to compare as say Denmark is more closely affected by what is happening in Germany than the other countries are.


I read that the UK wants to get simple tests to see if people have had and have recovered from the coronavirus, and when this is available they should be allowed to return to work.  This will not be everyone, but it would be a safe-ish way to go - but first they need the tests!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2020 at 5:23am

I think the Fins have the right approach. 

My thoughts have been to allow the young, 40 and under, to roam free. They don't get terribly ill. They all get sick and we as a group develop heard immunity.


It may be a simplistic view of this. I don't know how you manage a young person living with the elderly, but surely there's a better way than full lock down.


As soon as we open up again the risk is still there. We have only delayed the inevitable. 


Its frustrating because I'm immunocompromised and i just want to get on with work..


PS: just heard that my sister has Corona. okay gotta go....

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Sorry about your sister, Cobber.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lakeman5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2020 at 7:35am

Trump appears to be listening to doctors and economists and striking a balance. No person could ever strike a perfect balance. I told myself early on that I would not play armchair general and critique persons for finding a different balance than someone else would. You have to protect the economy or people will die and you have to consider the medical costs of the disease or people will die. I have heard many many statements from our admin that tells us they are trying to protect both. The proof is inntheir actions that they are trying to do both.
of course, the lack of testing and masks is totally messed up. That doesnt prove our leaders dont care or arent trying but it does prove gov is incompetent in the face of this trial

. P.S we should not blame Obama who also had many faults, for not restocking masks. With a limited budget, a different mission statement, and not having the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, our stockpiles focused on other medicines. We should thank them for having a stockpile not for having an imperfect one. 

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