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Ivermectin Is Worth Investigating, But...

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ViQueen24 View Drop Down
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    Posted: August 21 2021 at 9:33pm

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/204734

Ivermectin is worth investigating, but the idea that it cures COVID-19 is pure horses**t

Mark Sumner

Daily Kos Staff

2021/08/21 · 16:32

 153  159 Comments 159 New

MILFORD, UT - MAY 31: Wild horses roam free on state and some private land, outside federal disengaged horse management areas on May 31, 2017 outside Milford, Utah. The BLM, state officials and ranchers all over the Western United States are struggling with what to do about and how to control the burgeoning horse population in the west.  (Photo by George Frey/Getty Images)

Please. Have at least as much sense in your drug choices as these guys.


There are some stories that seem just too … outlandish. Even in an age where Republicans are waging war to lower the health of schoolchildren, a headline of “Horse deworming tablets dangerous for humans and not approved COVID-19 treatment” seems like it should be beyond the pale.


Unfortunately, it’s not. On Friday, the Mississippi Department of Health issued a an “official MS Health Alert” warning that “At least 70% of the recent calls [to poison control centers] have been related to ingestion of livestock or animal formulations of ivermectin purchased at livestock supply centers.” That includes at least one death. It’s enough that on Saturday, the FDA issued a rather extraordinary tweet. 


FDA warning on ivermectin

Those looking to horse pills for treatment might want to note one very simple thing first: adult horses have weights ranging from around 900 to upwards of 2,000 pounds. So, at the very least, a standard dose for a horse is likely to be many times what the average person can stand. And since overdose from Ivermectin can cause seizures, coma, lasting neurologic damage, and death, most of those calling the Mississippi hotline should count themselves lucky they could operate a phone.


Don’t worry, there are plenty of people willing to peddle Ivermectin in human-sized doses. In fact, just Googling the drug will net a number of online peddlers offering to provide Ivermectin in express to your home “without a prescription.” And, should you happen to be afflicted with  intestinal strongyloidiasis or onchocerciasis (conditions caused by parasitic worms) … sure. Give it a try.


But it won’t cure COVID-19.


Here’s a fun fact about Ivermectin courtesy of the folks at Gavi. The anti-parasitic drug was developed from a chemical extracted in the 1970s from a bacterium discovered in the woods beside a Japanese golf course. No other source of the bacteria has ever been discovered. So horses everywhere should be grateful that at least one Japanese doctor spent some time in the rough.


Here’s another fun fact from the FDA. 


FDA has not approved ivermectin for use in treating or preventing COVID-19 in humans. Ivermectin tablets are approved at very specific doses for some parasitic worms, and there are topical (on the skin) formulations for head lice and skin conditions like rosacea. Ivermectin is not an anti-viral (a drug for treating viruses).


There are reasons why ivermectin first popped into view months ago. The drug is being evaluated for a number of potential purposes, from treating malaria to roundworms. There have also been past indications that ivermectin and similar drugs may have some effect on viruses, though none of that has translated into approved treatments. With a number of ivermectin studies underway, the drug widely available, and those past claims about viruses, it seems almost inevitable that a non-peer-reviewed pre-print article would appear early in 2020 claiming that “ivermectin inhibits the replication of SARS-CoV-2 in vitro.”


This pre-print stated that ivermectin was highly effective at stopping the SARS-CoV-2 virus from replicating within samples of human cells in a laboratory culture. Multiple possible mechanisms behind this claim were proposed, but what was really happening wasn’t (and isn’t) understood. And there was a problem behind the ivermectin study, one that also afflicted similar claims about the Donald Trump favorite, hydroxychloroquine. As the NIH pointed out back in February:


“... pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic studies suggest that achieving the plasma concentrations necessary for the antiviral efficacy detected in vitro would require administration of doses up to 100-fold higher than those approved for use in humans.”


In other words: The dose in the in vitro studies is enormous. The horse pills sending Mississippians running to the poison center provide roughly 10x the level of ivermectin usually administered to humans in treating parasites. The level of the drug used to demonstrate its effect in cell cultures was 10x higher than the horse dose. Though ivermectin is considered well-tolerated at normal levels, treating someone with the levels of the drug seen in the lab studies would definitely stop the replication of virus … by killing the human.


Over the last year, there have been some studies that seemed to suggest positive results from administering non-lethal doses of ivermectin, such as this clinical trial using a small number of patients in Bangladesh that suggested taking ivermectin over a period of five days could decrease the amount of time between onset of symptoms to being clear of virus by three days. However, there have also been studies, like this larger study from Columbia, that found no significant improvement when using ivermectin. Both the pro and con results have been backed up by  a number of anecdotal reports. 


Looking at over a year of studies, it seems clear that human-tolerable doses of ivermectin administered over several days may—may —help those with mild cases of COVID-19 clear the virus from their system and recover more quickly. What’s also obvious is that the online claims that people have been “cured” of COVID-19 by taking doses of the drug, or claims that it can save those with severe symptoms, are complete horseshit. And dangerous horseshit at that.


The same can be said about claims that it was ivermectin that lead to a decline in cases in India or other nations. This claim, pushed by a number of the least reputable right-wing rumor sites, isn’t just untrue, but helps to promote the problem that’s causing those poison line phones to ring in Mississippi.


Speaking of which … 



There is enough genuine potential in ivermectin that the U.K. added it to the Principle trial back in June. It’s one of several drugs that have been found to have some potential in improving outcomes. Another is the inhaled steroid budesonide which, according to a study published in preprint last April, also cut recovery times for mild cases of COVID-19 by 3 days. Past work by the Principle trial has found that hydroxychloroquine, along with antibiotics azithromycin and doxycycline are ineffective.


Another very large trial of ivermectin has been underway since February. That international trial, being managed out of McMaster University in Canada, is looking at ivermectin along with two other drugs — diabetes treatment Metformin and anxiety medication fluvoxamine.  None of these drugs are miracle cures for COVID-19. However, one or all of them may be beneficial in helping patients recover more quickly. In the case of ivermectin, these two large scale trials should help determine what, if any, benefit it provides in the next few months.


On a personal note, I want to mention that nothing has filled my mailbox, DMs, and Kos mail more in the last three months than claims about ivermectin. Over and over, people have sent me links to individual claims and statements from doctors. And over and over again, people have come to the same conclusion — hydroxychloroquine may be fake, but ivermectin is the real deal. 


Let me respond briefly — I wish.


It may be that ivermectin provides benefit against COVID-19. However, it is clearly not a cure, or even a reliable treatment that’s broadly applicable in saving those hospitalized against COVID-19. How do we know? Because people have been trying. In this country alone, there are millions of doctors, millions of health officials, and millions of academics who have been engaged in a desperate, energetic search for something that provides effective therapeutic treatment of symptomatic COVID-19. Monoclonal antibody treatments, like that from Regeneron, offer significant benefit in preventing patients with mild symptoms from progressing to more severe disease, but those treatments are not available in adequate quantities, remain costly, and are difficult to administer.


If there were a cheap and effective treatment for COVID-19 based on an existing FDA-approved drug, you would not have to learn about it in a Facebook group or from a guest on Tucker Carlson. Such a finding would be plastered across not just every news channel, but every web page of the NIH, FDA, and CDC. President Biden would need to drive his Corvette straight to the podium just so he could get the words out faster. Everyone wants this. Everyone. There is absolutely no conspiracy to keep such a treatment “hidden” because it’s somehow “not making anyone any money.” That kind of conspiratorial thinking paves the way to making really, really bad decisions.


Oh, and by the way, Merck would like you to know that ivermectin definitely makes them money. They also want you to know this:


 It is important to note that, to-date, our analysis has identified:


No scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against COVID-19 from pre-clinical studies;

No meaningful evidence for clinical activity or clinical efficacy in patients with COVID-19 disease, and;

A concerning lack of safety data in the majority of studies.

These are the people who make the drug for use in humans. Please take their word for it.

I am the DZ Queen, and I approve this message.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2021 at 10:27pm

ViQueen24 very good article;

Some of the experts-on-internet (like Dr. John Campbell*, if I am correct) came with studies that indicated Ivermectin may prevent/limit viral spread. Often the dosage was mentioned...proberbly the wight ratio for bodyweight..AND ALWAYS USED BY PEOPLE WITH MEDICAL BACKGROUND ! (And back-up for when things go wrong !).

Merck would be promoting Ivermectin if they could somehow indicate even some benefits...There is a lot of distrust in Big Pharma-and I think for good reasons...

If Ivermectin would be as effective as some claim it would have showed up much more as treatment around the globe ! Big Pharma may be in control  of the "medical world" in some countries-there are enough countries where Big Pharma is not deciding on what treatments to use...

It would be so very welcome if simple, cheap, easy to make, treatments could stop this pandemic. If they were there they did not show up yet ! (Israel did study several thousend medications and its effect on Covid-they detected eight-8 !- that they believed may show some perspectives...)

Still one may hope for simple, easy to make and use medications stopping this pandemic. A lot of research is going on ! 

*I think Dr. John Campbell is very courageous in his video's ! He IS an expert trying to do good ! I disagree on the point of trying to be neutral/objective...I do not believe in it...we all have our background. Also wishing to see "a silver lining behind every cloud" -stay optimistic till you drop...is not my style. But Dr.J.C. may be one of the good things internet can provide ! 

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2021 at 8:17pm
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2021 at 10:36pm

Originally posted by carbon20 carbon20 wrote:

NPR: How The Ivermectin Culture Wars Took Off : Shots - Health News.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/09/19/1038369557/ivermectin-anti-vaccine-movement-culture-wars?ft=nprml&f=1001

I pity the poor fools who fall for that crap!  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2021 at 11:29pm

I can't understand why ,but then again,humans will be humans.....

I'd just like to know when they going to find a vaccine for grumpy old man syndrome....... lmao

Take care all 😷😉💉



Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pixie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2021 at 6:57am

https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2021/09/five-oregonians-hospitalized-with-ivermectin-poisoning.html

Five Oregonians have been hospitalized recently due to the consumption of an antiparasitic drug, ivermectin, despite no clinical data supporting its use in the protection against COVID-19.

The Oregon Poison Center has managed 25 cases involving the use of ivermectin between Aug. 1 and Sept. 14. Two of the five Oregonians hospitalized required intensive care.

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration approved ivermectin tablets to treat people with intestinal strongyloidiasis and onchocerciasis, two conditions caused by parasitic worms, according to the FDA website. Some topical forms of the drug are approved to treat head lice and skin conditions, like rosacea.

“Neither the FDA nor the National Institutes of Health have endorsed its use for COVID-19, and OHSU doesn’t recommend any use of ivermectin for COVID-19,” Oregon Health & Science University officials wrote in a news release. “Initial lab research indicated ivermectin might be able to treat COVID-19, but when tested in human trials, ivermectin did not decrease symptoms or cure the disease.”


00178400-2C1D-4998-88F1-AC4A6B80250E.jpeg


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2021 at 3:15pm

Originally posted by Pixie Pixie wrote:



00178400-2C1D-4998-88F1-AC4A6B80250E.jpeg


Love it....

LMAO

take care all 😷😉💉

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
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