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Mask hoarding

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Newbie1A View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Newbie1A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2020 at 10:27am

Originally posted by Touchoftheblues Touchoftheblues wrote:

https://gsaauctions.gov/gsaauctions/aucdsclnk?sl=71QSCI20292041

This is a link to a US government auction site that was selling N95 masks to the highest bidder on February 29th.  Do I really need to feel guilty that I stocked up well before then?

Has anyone looked at this since it's gone back up for viewing?  Am I missing something???  $50,300 divided by 40 cases = $1257.50/case.  It says 8 boxes (of 20 masks/box) so that's $157.19/box ?!?!?!?!  Did I miss a step? At that point in time they were still available if you looked...?

PARTICULATE RESPIRATORS: (40 CASES)

                            

                                
                                    
                                        
Sale-Lot Number:
                                       
71QSCI20292041
                                       
City, State:
                                       
Denver, CO
                                       
Current Bid:
                                       
    50,300 USD
                                       
Bidders:
                                       
  18
                                       
Close Time:
                                       
02/29 11:15 AM CT   (Closed)
                                       
Time Remaining:


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CRS, DrPH View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2020 at 12:31pm

Originally posted by Lakeman5 Lakeman5 wrote:

It really doesnt matter if mask wearing protects healthy people from sick mask wearers or if it protects healthy mask wearers from sick people or if it just keeps you from touching your face. Mask wearing works. Thats why all the first responders and hospital staff want to wear masks. If we all wore masks it would be easier than wide spread sipping and it would work. 

NO!!  It DOES matter because it wastes valuable PPE resources!!  

Mask wearing works for first responders (I am one) and hospital staff (I'm one of those also) because we have DIRECT CONTACT WITH FULMINANT VIRAL INFECTION!!  

Also, if you are not properly trained in how to mask & de-mask (doff) your contaminated PPE, you are just spreading contamination.  Casually worn masks not only allow for particles to bypass the mask (you see people online, wearing masks covering their mouths only!), but they become rapidly contaminated with bacterial growth and become a source of infection on their own, unrelated to viral loading.   Please see this article from Infection Control Today, the flagship of hospital infection control:

https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/mask-respirators/fighting-covid-19-if-mask-fits--often-it-doesnt?elq_mid=11296&elq_cid=6089152

Leave the masks to the trained experts.  I have some but would not wear them unless responding to an incident (I am NIMS ICS trained & certified), caring for my ill wife if she gets the illness, or entering a HC setting in an official capacity (Deputy Sector Chief, Healthcare & Public Health).  I am also respirator trained to work in hazardous environments. 

If you need comfort, get a teddy bear.  Most of the community infection from COVID-19 is fecal/oral, if you want to wear masks, put them on your hands when you go to the bathroom.  https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/926856

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WillobyBrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2020 at 1:10pm

Absolutely agree with what you said about using the mask correctly Chuck.  I was fully trained for NBC situations and at a later date for the use of PPE in emergency surgical events.  I see people using them incorrectly on television and cringe at their ignorance.  However, I am not in the position to do anything about changing the situation.  I suspect people would be far more likely to listen to you on such matters.  Which is why I recommend this site.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lakeman5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2020 at 6:23pm

I disagree. We could solve both those problems easier than we can all stay home. First-make enough masks. Second - teach people to wear them. Think that cant be done: singapore and tai wan did it and they have the best outcomes so far.

Let me repeat that. Singapore and tai wan both have the best outcomes and both of them have the general public wearing masks. Look at pictures and you will see them wearing masks. Some of them are just surgical masks but its still working. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2020 at 12:30am

Originally posted by Lakeman5 Lakeman5 wrote:

I disagree. We could solve both those problems easier than we can all stay home. First-make enough masks. Second - teach people to wear them. Think that cant be done: singapore and tai wan did it and they have the best outcomes so far.

Let me repeat that. Singapore and tai wan both have the best outcomes and both of them have the general public wearing masks. Look at pictures and you will see them wearing masks. Some of them are just surgical masks but its still working. 

Both Singapore and China had very rigid social distancing and quarantine operations, enforced by police and military.   Wearing masks had nothing to do with their level of control.  

Masks are useless outdoors.  Sorry.   The only virus I know of that has wind-borne transmission is foot & mouth disease with cattle.  

This is me (no name for obvious reasons).


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote socalmom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2020 at 12:33pm

My cousin who just started her chemo shared this picture of her nurse (two days ago, in Covidfornia).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lakeman5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2020 at 3:58pm

Mask wearing works for upper resiratory illnesses. Not alone and not only for trained professionals. They also help with covid19. Im no expert but here is a lengthy article from someone who is: https://sarahwestall.com/how-to-stop-coronavirus-and-save-the-economy/ No doubt you will claim he is not an expert. Regardless, masks work which is why healthcare professionals wear them. Cant get much more obvious than that. It does not matter if covid is fecal/oral, aerosal, droplets, or surface caught. The mask covers your nose and mouth which reduces stuff from getting into your nose and mouth. Maybe you will be swayed and maybe not. It doesnt really matter to me. To anyone else: if you have masks you can help health care workers by donating them or you can help yourself by wearing them because they work.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FluMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2020 at 4:05pm

This is how educated our professionals are???  Give me a break.  I gave some masks to a friends daughter who was testing and they had been reusing masks.  But I kept some for  myself and will wear them if I need to and I will restock when this is over.   I do know how to make sure N95 are on correctly!  


Originally posted by socalmom socalmom wrote:

My cousin who just started her chemo shared this picture of her nurse (two days ago, in Covidfornia).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Newbie1A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2020 at 7:04pm

Originally posted by socalmom socalmom wrote:

My cousin who just started her chemo shared this picture of her nurse (two days ago, in Covidfornia).

Ok, we need more then a Thanks button - this on is a slap self on forhead or OMG or... Wow...just holy cow WOW!!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote interwebber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2020 at 11:27pm

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by Lakeman5 Lakeman5 wrote:

I disagree. We could solve both those problems easier than we can all stay home. First-make enough masks. Second - teach people to wear them. Think that cant be done: singapore and tai wan did it and they have the best outcomes so far.

Let me repeat that. Singapore and tai wan both have the best outcomes and both of them have the general public wearing masks. Look at pictures and you will see them wearing masks. Some of them are just surgical masks but its still working. 

Both Singapore and China had very rigid social distancing and quarantine operations, enforced by police and military.   Wearing masks had nothing to do with their level of control.  

Masks are useless outdoors.  Sorry.   The only virus I know of that has wind-borne transmission is foot & mouth disease with cattle.  

This is me (no name for obvious reasons).



I was in the US Navy on nuclear submarines rad-con worker level II trained and certified. I have worn double sets of anti-c's and breathing protection working in high radiological contamination areas and then doffed all of these to prevent the spread of contamination of radioactive materials from contaminated airborne areas to clean decontamination zones including myself and tools I used in the zone. Don't buy into the misinformation. Masks for everyone is the answer once they are readily available to everyone. The lie is that they are essential to health professionals but they do nothing for the average citizen because they are soooo hard to wear. I could teach you in 30 seconds how to wear a surgical mask properly. Gimme a break. Good luck!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pheasant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2020 at 10:34am

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

Oh dear Chuck, I'm going to argue with you  again.  Please don't think I have lost respect for your greater knowledge.  I have not.


But, Countries where public mask wearing is mandatory are doing better than the rest on virus control.  You are right that personally it makes little difference, but if everyone adopted it, the overall infection rates would fall.

Ditto! Tech, I have been squawking about this for weeks. 3 billion other people are wearing them....

Forgive me for not being another lemming but sometimes the logic of a problem trumps best guidance.

At one time this was considered safe by the best minds in the world too:

American solders btw, i used the Soviet one so i didnt have to post the 8 min video.

The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself......FDR
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote interwebber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2020 at 11:50pm

I refuse to let this die. I have told my daughter since she was 3 years old... If you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem... Stop the lies about masks not being effective. All you are doing is undermining public confidence in the government and so called "experts"!!!

https://www.foxnews.com/media/tucker-carlson-blasts-feds-medical-masks-coronavirus


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2020 at 12:01am

Originally posted by interwebber interwebber wrote:

I refuse to let this die. I have told my daughter since she was 3 years old... If you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem... Stop the lies about masks not being effective. All you are doing is undermining public confidence in the government and so called "experts"!!!

https://www.foxnews.com/media/tucker-carlson-blasts-feds-medical-masks-coronavirus

Sorry, Fox News doesn't count. 

These are the problems: 

a) people have hoarded surgical masks for personal use, this is costing lives in the clinical setting that I work in (hospital infection control).  Civilians have NO need for N95 masks for this outbreak unless they are personally caring for a sick relative up close. 

b) if folks want to wear a mask for prophylatic reasons, I'm OK with that.  However, all you need in public is a bandana or simple dust control hobby mask.  These will catch the droplets released during sneezing and coughing. 

c) most transmittal of SARS-CoV2 is from personal contamination of doorknobs, toilet seats etc. with either mucous secretions (saliva, tears) or fecal matter.  SARS-CoV2 is a cold virus, and it transmits exactly like the common cold.  Do you wear a mask all during cold & flu season?  Didn't think so. 

People can make their own choices, but I think the evidence of civilian mask use is pretty slender. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Penham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2020 at 12:09am

Throwing my opinion out there. I do believe wearing a mask will protect you. I believe they have only been saying it won't is because they don't want everyone buying them because hospitals are unprepared. The Doctor, can't remember her name, younger blonde give updates and opinions on news every night, tonight said wearing a mask is effective, N-95, the best,  surgical next, the home made ones are basically useless because they trap germs in the layers. Even Trump said today in his daily address to  the USA that they may soon have everyone wearing masks when they go out. It's under consideration. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2020 at 12:21am

She also showed how to put on the two masks correctly. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote interwebber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2020 at 12:25am

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by interwebber interwebber wrote:

I refuse to let this die. I have told my daughter since she was 3 years old... If you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem... Stop the lies about masks not being effective. All you are doing is undermining public confidence in the government and so called "experts"!!!

https://www.foxnews.com/media/tucker-carlson-blasts-feds-medical-masks-coronavirus

Sorry, Fox News doesn't count. 

These are the problems: 

a) people have hoarded surgical masks for personal use, this is costing lives in the clinical setting that I work in (hospital infection control).  Civilians have NO need for N95 masks for this outbreak unless they are personally caring for a sick relative up close. 

b) if folks want to wear a mask for prophylatic reasons, I'm OK with that.  However, all you need in public is a bandana or simple dust control hobby mask.  These will catch the droplets released during sneezing and coughing. 

c) most transmittal of SARS-CoV2 is from personal contamination of doorknobs, toilet seats etc. with either mucous secretions (saliva, tears) or fecal matter.  SARS-CoV2 is a cold virus, and it transmits exactly like the common cold.  Do you wear a mask all during cold & flu season?  Didn't think so. 

People can make their own choices, but I think the evidence of civilian mask use is pretty slender. 

Glad you responded. Sorry Fox news offends you. Did you even watch the clip? I think Tucker Carlson is one of the most independent folks out there calling the Trump administration to task where appropriate. The mask problem is with governments and hospitals not preparing appropriately. It's one thing to say we weren't prepared and we need the protection for those on the frontlines. It's an entirely different thing to say masks aren't effective in preventing spread of the virus and possibly dangerous to wear them. This is absurd. History will show who was right and who was wrong during the global pandemic of 2020... If everyone was wearing masks how many more lives would we have saved? How much less stress would have been placed on our health workers and hospitals? Glad you are ok with prophylactic wearing of masks given the asymptomatic spread we have known about for months. Bandanas may be all we have at the moment, but it is not ideal. It didn't have to be this way...

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