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 Posted: February 24 2006 at 10:30pm |
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Unfortunately there is remarkably little information about masks. I agree
that fit is priority one. The following was the only references I could find regarding recent experiences with masks that might be relevant. "When we compared use of N95 to use of surgical masks, the relative SARS risk associated with the N95 mask was half that for the surgical mask; however, because of the small sample size, the result was not statistically significant. Our data suggest that the N95 mask offers more protection than a surgical mask. This study focused on critical care nurses working at the first SARS hospital outbreak in Toronto. Since use of personal protective equipment was not standardized during the study period, it was possible to assess the effect of personal protective equipment. The use of personal protective equipment was highly variable because the nurses were often unaware that their patients had SARS. Our results highlight the importance of using personal protective equipment when caring for SARS patients. We estimate that if the entire cohort had used masks consistently, SARS risk would have been reduced from 6% to 1.4% per shift." http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol10no2/03-0838.htm#1 |
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Posted: February 24 2006 at 10:47pm |
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Hope
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Posted: February 25 2006 at 2:17am |
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Rick, Do you have a good source for ordering the 3M 1860's. (Like 100 of them.) Thanks for your info!
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Hope
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striper
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Posted: February 25 2006 at 5:45am |
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I am more confused than ever about which mask to get. I need to buy for 2 adults and one 8-year old. I see the following made by 3M. Some seem to have an exhaust valve and some don't. How do I kinow which one to get. Mind you, I am not a healthcare professional and in the event of apandemic, my exposure could be limited to caring for my family. 3M 8210 N95 |
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Posted: February 25 2006 at 6:18am |
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You need to try on a mask to see how they fit. The higher rated masks "N100" will be less comfortable to breathe than N95. The following site might help with your questions. There is a sample of some below. 
http://products3.3m.com/catalog/us/en001/safety/occ_health_s afety/ node_GS63SXS2HXbe/root_GST1T4S9TCgv/vroot_5SDD44F7DZge/ gvel_RL5PK085P3gl/theme_us_ohes_3_0/command_AbcPageHandler/ output_html |
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striper
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Posted: February 25 2006 at 10:06am |
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Went to Home Depot and bought a 3M N100 8233 respirator for $15.97, two of 3M N95 8511 respirator for $6.97 and a 20-box of 3M N95 8110 respirator for $17.97. Will try these to see which one fits. Looks like the N100 is way too expensive. I had seen it for about $6 onm the web. |
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RotroShaggy
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Posted: February 25 2006 at 1:03pm |
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hi Striper. I have posted the following information on this and other threads, but I'll repeat it in case my experience can help someone. 3M is not the only manufacturer of N95s. When I first started shopping, I was stuck on 3Ms because they were a name I recognized and trusted. So I ordered the 8000's without having first tried one on. They were very inexpensive, so I could afford a bunch and I thought having a bunch would be important. BUT I made the mistake of underestimating fit. An N95 is an N95 when it comes to how they are rated (95% or greater at .3 microns), BUT they are not all created eqally when it comes to fit. The 8000's didn't even come close to providing a secure fit. So I had to spend about $30 to send them back to the distributor and wait for my credit card to be credited. Based on my knowledge that the 3M 8210 was the best selling N95 on the market, I made the SAME mistake and ordered some of those without trying one on. In the meantime, I orded a sampler pack from Masksnmore.com (I HIGHLY recommend these guys. They are friendly and fast) Anyway, I was able to try 12 different brands, including the ever so popular 3M 8210. Guess what? The 8210 didn't fit, either. So I called the company from whom I ordered the 8210's and cancelled my order. Based on the sampler pack from Masksnmore.com, I narrowed my selection down to the North 7140 and the Moldex 2200. Both fit very well. The North has an exhaust valve but the Moldex does not. Keep in mind that neither model is the "best" that the respective companies have to offer--there are higher models, like the Moldex 2300 and 2400, for example. BUT I had to find the line between getting the best I can but at the same time getting enough to last through 3 or 4 waves of pandemic. I personally could not afford to buy 400 N95's at $6.00 a pop or more (See Tryosin, etc.) So you have to sort of find that line and buy within your comfort zone. I am not bashing 3M. They just didn't fit MY face. They may work well for you. The point is, don't make the mistake I made TWICE--try some out for you and your family and then buy the highest quantity of the best model(s) that you can afford, depending on how many you think you will want or need. Remember--the fanciest, highest qualty N100 with all the bells and whistles is WORTHLESS unless it fits properly. Fit is the most important factor when finding the right N95 for you. If it leaks, nothing else matters. Good luck! Hope this post helps someone. |
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Posted: February 25 2006 at 4:38pm |
http://www.startribune.com/535/story/269007.html Sat Feb 25/06 |
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Posted: February 25 2006 at 5:25pm |
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Hope
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Posted: February 26 2006 at 5:59pm |
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I went to order more masks today and see this. The sign of the times... "3M is currently back-ordering the 3M 1860 and 3M 1860S Healthcare Particulate Respirator. We hope to begin shipping our backorders by the beginning of March. Orders will be filled in the order in which they were received. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you. We will continue to keep everyone updated." |
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Hope
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Posted: February 27 2006 at 7:52am |
main1297500.shtml">http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/02/08 /health/ webmd/main1297500.shtml "Everyone wore one in 1918 and there was still a pandemic". I think the quality of the masks or the information available was below par. |
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striper
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Posted: February 27 2006 at 8:05am |
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The amount of contradictory infromation out there is amazing. One day it is "Wear face masks". Another day it is "Face masks may not help". I remember reading a month or two ago a declaration by a scientist in Asis that Tamiflu is useless as a therapy for Avain Flu. Most of us know that Tamiflu is not a vaccine but a medicine that helps control and shorten the flu once we get it. I am puzzled by all this contradictory stuff. I am even more confused about the masks to purchase. |
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Hope
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Posted: February 28 2006 at 12:01am |
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Hi Striper, I was equally confused about masks but found this blog by Anita very helpful. Seeing all the photos and reading the descriptions really helped me know what I wanted to order. I have two types now, but my latest purchase (after viewing this site) are the 3M 1860's. As far as Tamiflu goes, I got it right away when I first heard the words "bird flu". I like knowing I may have something that "could" help during a time when there is nothing else more promising. Best of luck Hope |
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striper
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Posted: February 28 2006 at 7:33am |
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Thanks Hope. The 1860 doesn't seem to have a valve. Did you try it on? Was it comfrotable to breath and exhale weraing it? Which other model do you have? Thanks.
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Posted: February 28 2006 at 6:25pm |
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"The amount of contradictory infromation out there is amazing. One day
it is "Wear face masks". Another day it is "Face masks may not help". I remember reading a month or two ago a declaration by a scientist in Asis that Tamiflu is useless as a therapy for Avain Flu. Most of us know that Tamiflu is not a vaccine but a medicine that helps control and shorten the flu once we get it. I am puzzled by all this contradictory stuff. I am even more confused about the masks to purchase." ---------------------------- The WHO has no official position about non-medical people wearing surgical/face masks during a pandemic. In light of what you currently know, does this seem like a prudent/common sense position? Consider the risk versus reward ratio. |
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Posted: March 01 2006 at 1:35am |
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I've ordered MANY different brands and numbers. I like the 3m 8511 (the ones with the yellow valve). I have some without valves and they fit my son well (he's 15) but he said that breathing through them takes some modification. The valve ones he likes MUCH better as the breathing is not so difficult. SOOOO..........I am only ordering the valve ones from now on. Got a good deal on a case of 100 3m 9211 (ohhh la la).....for 100 dollars...a dollar a mask! AND they are valved 3M 9211's, no less ......
My daughter and I are having trouble finding masks to fit our small faces, so I ordered some of the surgical green ones, but.... I bought rolls of duct tape also. We may have to tape them if we have to wear the 8000 ones. And I would like to see a virus try to get through duct tape. Sure is going to look weird, though. |
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Posted: March 01 2006 at 5:23am |
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The following is a small excerpt from a list of masks
officially approved for use by NOISH and the CDC 
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/topics/respirators/disp_part/ n95list1.html |
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striper
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Posted: March 01 2006 at 6:38am |
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Thanks. I tried the 8511 and 8110. They fit me well. The only problem is they are awfully expensive at Home Depot compared to online merchants. |
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Bobcat
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Posted: March 01 2006 at 9:03am |
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Hi,
Just thought that this info might come in handy. The N95 masks are only good for particulate matter of 5 micron size. A virus particle size is about 3 mircrons. The issue of how to avoid these viruses is related to the fact that they are "aresolized", which means that they are usually attatched to dropletts of mucous or fluids that are free floating in the air, when sneezed out by an infected person. This means that most of the dropletts will be of a large enough size to be caught by the mask, but this mask is generally usefull for dry particles of 5 microns or lager, and that is what it is rated for. The N95 mask is good at filtering particulate matter to a degree of filtering out 95.5% of particulate, but it is not rated foraresols. A mask that is rated for aresols has a "P" designation. I have bought masks that are P100 masks, as they are specifically rated for aresolized particles. The claim is that they are 99.97% effective at screening out aresols. I hope that this is correct. I have a 3M silicone half mask with an exhalation valve and two side filters. The P100 is the only true filter with a HEPA rating (high energy particulate arrester), and are the magenta colored filters. I bought this type of mask as it has a very comfortable tight close fit, with easy breathability, and is easily cleaned. By the way, iodine based cleaners are the way to go when attempting antiviral cleaning. No matter what, any of the masks that the public can buy, have only been rated for use in an industrial setting, and not with a medical or "antiviral" type use. This being said, after much study, I think that the best method of protection is to use a mask when out in public, and use the best mask that you can afford. Always fit test your mask before going out, and use disposable gloves to remove it, and clean it. |
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Ready or not, here it comes!
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Posted: March 02 2006 at 8:41am |
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Posted: March 07 2006 at 5:25am |
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Experts Debate Using Face Masks During Flu
Pandemic POSTED: 6:55 am CST March 7, 2006 WASHINGTON -- How much protection would a face mask offer during a worldwide flu epidemic? And would people need a fresh one every day or even every few hours? There aren't clear answers, public health experts said Monday as the Institute of Medicine grappled with what advice to offer the federal government. Health workers use masks -- simple surgical masks or better-filtering ones called N95 respirators -- to prevent infection while caring for sick patients. But the public undoubtedly will turn to masks as well if a flu pandemic strikes, and experts say supplies will quickly run short. Both types of masks are supposed to be used once and discarded. So federal health officials asked the IOM, a prestigious group of independent scientists, to determine if there are ways that health workers could reuse their N95 masks - and if average citizens need reusable masks, too. The IOM will issue its report this spring. At a public meeting Monday, health experts cited a host of questions. Among them: how long the masks work once donned; whether reused masks could be contaminated and spread infection; how to ensure they're worn correctly -- N95 masks have to be fitted to the user's face and are hard to breathe in for long stretches. And would wearing a mask on, say, the subway protect people enough, or should they have driven or stayed home? Linda Chiarello of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said if masks eventually are recommended for the public, the advice must not create a false sense of security. "The lack of clear data ... is a dilemma for those of us on the front lines," said Dr. Jeff Durchin of the Seattle-King County Health Department, adding that people already call health departments to ask what masks they should personally stockpile. "We should not be talking about the reusability of masks or other devices until we know whether they actually work to begin with," said Jeffrey Levi of Trust for America's Health, a nonprofit health advocacy group. http:// www.nbc5.com/money/7772419/detail.html |
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redcloud
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Posted: March 08 2006 at 11:45pm |
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Hi all,
This is my first post here, and I would like to thank all of you for this excellent site. I'm a stone sculptor, and have always used a North 7700 half-mask respirator with P100 filters to keep out the stone dust. I chose this combo because it was recommended by other stone people as a true HEPA filter that would keep out silica dust from sawing and chiseling granite. One thing I've never understood about the mask rating system is the difference between the designations "R" "N" and "P." Does anyone know the difference? Also, wouldn't a "100" mask be better than a "95" mask, simply because it would filter out smaller particles? I'm thinking of just adding a stock of P100 filter cartridges to my existing North respirator and going with that for flu protection. Can anyone see anything wrong with that? Thanks for all the great info you have shared on this site. Red |
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Grim72
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Posted: March 13 2006 at 9:24am |
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I would recommend the following for anyone unsure about what to do in the UK. First of all you only need wear a mask in areas/jobs where there may be risk - you are highly unlikely to get bird flu by walking down the street. I think much scare mongering can be found on this site. If you want to wear a mask in low/medium risk areas use a FFP2 filtered disposable mask. For higher risk areas (eg working with/near birds etc) use an FFP3 filtered disposable mask. As a rule of thumb you can use these for 8 hour shifts before replacing with a new one. You can get these and a range of other products on the following uk website: http://www.safetyshop.com/content/news/news.asp?Id=113
Please also consider face fit testing. It is important that a good face fit is made for the mask to be effective. Safetyshop also offer face fit kits if you do s search for product code BR201 |
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Posted: March 13 2006 at 9:49am |
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Welcome Redcloud, good to see your posts, if you need anything more please ask. I hope you enjoy our group,it can get lively as members have different opinions on things.
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Posted: March 14 2006 at 5:32pm |
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striper
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Posted: March 17 2006 at 1:11pm |
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Where can I get the 3M 9211 at a good price? Thanks.
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Posted: March 20 2006 at 3:37am |
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Ont. nurses want better masks for avian flu
Updated Sun. Mar. 19 2006 11:33 PM ET CTV.ca News Staff Ontario nurses say the federal government wasted money by purchasing standard surgical masks incapable of blocking avian flu. "It was two of our nurses who died during the (SARS outbreak)," Lesley Bell, of the Ontario Nurses Association, told CTV News. "We're just saying we don't want to go through that again. Let's make sure that the nurses and health care workers who are on the front lines are protected." The government bought 4.5 million standard masks for about 10 cents each. Ontario nurses say the masks are inadequate protection against avian flu, and the government needs to buy N95 surgical masks at about 10 times the cost. Nurses demanded and received N95 masks three years ago during Toronto's SARS outbreak. The World Health Organization recommends the N95 mask as protection against both SARS and avian flu. The mask has become popular in the United States, where they are mailed to relatives living in countries affected by the virus. "They came in a bought cases at a time, and they would ship them home to their families," Home Depot worker Jake Zacharias said.The government says there is no evidence to show N95 masks are more effective at blocking the virus than standard surgical masks. "There is certainly confusion, in the health care community, and globally, about how this disease is transmitted, and what the optimal method of protection is," said Dr. Arlene King, a microbiologist at the Public Health Agency of Canada. The N95 masks are manufactured in Quebec, but have to be pre-fitted for every user and can only be worn for a few hours. Dr. Donald Low, a microbiologist, said that N95 masks also become useless if the user touches them, adding another problem. "In some circumstances they may be no better than a surgical mask, and in some cases they may even be worse," she said. However, Ontario's nurses say the government is simply interested in saving money, not which mask is more effective.Meanwhile, Israel confirmed its first outbreak of the H5N1 strain Sunday – the worst mutation of the virus. http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060319 / bird_flu_060319/20060319?hub=Health |
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Posted: March 22 2006 at 10:02am |
found them at www.library-dust.com for $1.35 ea/box of 10. They seem to have overall good prices.
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Posted: March 30 2006 at 12:00pm |
Keeping that in mind, I found N95 masks, today, at Home Depot- in the Personal Safety Isle. There were 20/box for $19.95. They are sold by MSA Safety Works The link is: http://www.msasafetyworks.com/catalog/product1116.html
But honestly, after reading all the other entries here, I would appreciate a 2nd opinion on my choice. Thanks so much! k |
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redcloud
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Posted: March 30 2006 at 12:26pm |
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I went with the 3M 1860, because of their widespread use during the SARS outbreak. They are specifically designed with a coating to prevent absorption of fluids.
I, too, was dumbfounded by the vast number of choices. But after many years of using respirators to protect against stone dust (I'm a sculptor), I decided to rely on my trusty North 7700 half-mask with P100 cartridges for extended trips into the contaminated world. It is very robust, fairly cheap, and reusable after wiping down. The P100 filter is 99.9xxx% effective against ANY particulates. That's what you want when you are banging granite, or avoiding death. The 1860's will be used for very short trips or to care for a sick person. Red |
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Posted: March 31 2006 at 5:28am |
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My question is regarding the mask that I found (linked in my last note). I f I read the previous discussions correctly, as long as the mask is an 'N95 and meets the NIOSH requirements' it would be safe to use. This mask seemed to be so inexpensive (box of 20 for 19.99 @ Home Depot) that it got me wondering if it was not a good choice ... or did I stumble on a 'good find'. Guess I'm just looking for confirmation and reassurance that 'generic' and not just 3-M are oke and I can add these masks to my preps. Thanks -k
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Posted: March 31 2006 at 8:00am |
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ReadyMom - your masks will be fine. The important thing to look for is the N95 designation from NIOSH (the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health). |
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fritz
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Posted: March 31 2006 at 8:43am |
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To all who have not purchased masks (N95's) yet, you might want to do so ASAP. The official report of face masks is due to come out in April. I know April begins tomarrow but they didn't say when in April. After that I would imagine it will be very hard to get masks and I'd rather be 1st in line than 12,001st! In the event that they are on BO now. I got this info from the abc news site:
you go to the picture of the face mask (3rd item down in the right hand column) and watch the video news clip. They did say that regular surgical face masks were not efffective against BF but N95's offered some protection.
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"I am only one; but still I am one, I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do." -- Hellen Keller
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Posted: March 31 2006 at 9:13am |
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Thank you! I fee so much better, now. I'll go and get more. If anyone else wants to get these ... they are at Home Depot in the 'Personal Safety' Isle ... 20/$19.99 and you don't pay Ship/Hand. charges!! -k
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fritz
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Posted: March 31 2006 at 10:35am |
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I have home depot N95's but the masks that are rec. are the surgical N95's and are different in that they are fluid resistant. I made this mistake myself and it is very confusing because a 3M N95 mod1860 is not the same as a 3M N95 mod1860 surgical mask! I have both and when I took them out of the box it was easy to see the difference. I even had a guy from the company on the phone tell me they were the same product! It is not. I think the reg HD N95 will offer you some protection (JMVHO) but for almost the same price you can order the N95 surgical masks on line or in a med supply store and you have the better mask. Or you can contact Rocky about what masks she has in stock. I was just commenting re your Home depot purchase post. good luck, fritz :>}
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"I am only one; but still I am one, I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do." -- Hellen Keller
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Posted: March 31 2006 at 10:47am |
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ReadyMom:
My HD is completely out of N-95 masks.
 Fritz:
What is the best price you have seen for the 3M N-95 surgical masks? I got mine on Amazon from Allegro Medical and it was $33 for a box of 20. By way of contrast, I got 3M Model 8000 N-95 Respirators at a price of $31 per box of 60.
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redcloud
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Posted: March 31 2006 at 12:11pm |
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fritz,
The 3M 1860 surgicals are blue. The others are gray. I almost made the same mistake. |
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fritz
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Posted: March 31 2006 at 5:16pm |
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yes, redcloud that it true. I was really surprized that the guy on the phone gave me the wrong information. Bumpman, prices do vary and they may've gone up since I last checked but it was a box of 20 for about $20. (prices are sure to go only up IMO) There are other masks out there that may be more efficient than the N95's but they are def more $. It really depends what you need them for. If you think you may be caring for infected individuals than you would want the highest protection you could get, I would think. IHMO, most of the folks here plan to bug in early so family members can avoid being infected. However, there are alot of 1st responders and medical professionals here as well who plan on being out in the world and helping people so they need MAX protection for sure. It is all a guessing game and that is the most nerve wracking part of it. You have to spend $ where you think it will do you the most good. Masks are just one part of being prepped. There's food, water, blankets & clothes for warmth, basic medical supplies, tioletries, water purification & cooking gear etc. I know it's a lot but just take one step at a time and read through the threads while you make your lists and tackle what you can at a pace that's comfortable for you. However, time may be limited so do take care of as much as you can as soon as you can. good luck. fritz :>} |
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"I am only one; but still I am one, I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do." -- Hellen Keller
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Alohamora
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Posted: April 01 2006 at 5:09am |
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ReadyMom -
Just make sure those masks fit you correctly before you go and buy a lot more of them.
I'm no expert, but it seems to me that some of the more expensive masks are better designed, so that they fit more people better. But if you find a cheap N95 that fits you well, go for it!
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Posted: April 08 2006 at 12:40pm |
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Need help here: My sister-in-law gave me a box of 50 Defend cone masks, MK-1007, they are manufactured in Germany. She is a dental technician and it says on the side and it says on the side they are manufactured to "provide healthcare professionals with the best infection control available". Also says "excellent BFE". Anybody know about these and how they compare to US standards???? TIA
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AnitaRNpulmo
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Joined: January 02 2006 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 82 |
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Posted: April 08 2006 at 1:19pm |
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Google ! and ever Google ...
http://www.defend.com/shopping/product.asp?product_masterid=MK1007&product_id=MK-1008&dept_id=2&sub_dept_id=2 BFE 99% at 5 microns and fluid shield ... Rather a surgical / procedure mask like the Aseptex blue cone mask (often used by dentists), not a particulate respirator ... |
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AnitaRNpulmo
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Joined: January 02 2006 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 82 |
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Posted: April 08 2006 at 1:26pm |
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rhe following models are even better !
http://www.defend.com/shopping/product.asp?product_masterid=MK1046&product_id=MK%2D1056&dept_id=2&sub_dept_id=1 and http://www.defend.com/shopping/product.asp?product_masterid=MK2007&product_id=MK%2D2010&dept_id=2&sub_dept_id=1 http://www.defend.com/shopping/product.asp?product_masterid=MK1076&product_id=MK%2D1076&dept_id=2&sub_dept_id=1 |
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bear3351
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Joined: April 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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Posted: May 04 2006 at 6:54pm |
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What do we do about our pets?. I am concern about my dogs. Will they be OK? |
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If you fail the first time, shoot and shoot again!
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Commonground
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Joined: March 06 2006 Status: Offline Points: 262 |
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Posted: May 05 2006 at 2:05pm |
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Reusability of Facemasks During an Influenza Pandemic: Facing the Flu (2006)
http://darwin.nap.edu/books/0309101824/html/ Read "4. Findings and Recommendations" I couldn't cut and paste it. |
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AnitaRNpulmo
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Joined: January 02 2006 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 82 |
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Posted: May 06 2006 at 3:07am |
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MAybe the best text I have read about PPE in infection control and about how masks work.
Printable as a pdf image, text cant be selected. Anyway reading and printing is free. |
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striper wrote: