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Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

most Shameful science policy in history......

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    Posted: September 13 2020 at 8:11pm

The Independent: ‘This may most shameful moment in history of US science policy’: Science journal editor launches attack on Trump over coronavirus.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trump-coronavirus-woodward-downplay-science-journal-condemn-rage-latest-b434863.html

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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I wonder when I see these anti-maskers,if they would insist a surgeon wore a mask when operating on them 🤔🙄??


Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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They'd wear them if it was announced that Covid will make them sterile or impotent...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2020 at 9:40am

Originally posted by carbon20 carbon20 wrote:




I wonder when I see these anti-maskers,if they would insist a surgeon wore a mask when operating on them 🤔🙄??


Do we really need to go back over the science between cloth masks, surgical masks and N95 masks and what their capabilities and efficiencies are and are not. Interestingly enough there were studies done way before COVID that concluded surgical masks effectiveness was inconclusive in surgical settings.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2020 at 9:42am

Blah..blah..blah...  skewed facts don't make it so...

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Originally posted by carbon20 carbon20 wrote:

The Independent: ‘This may most shameful moment in history of US science policy’: Science journal editor launches attack on Trump over coronavirus.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trump-coronavirus-woodward-downplay-science-journal-condemn-rage-latest-b434863.html

Remember follow the science and listen to the experts? Here is what Fauci said.

Anthony Fauci on Wednesday said he doesn't think President Trump was publicly distorting the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic. 

During an interview with Fox News's John Roberts, Fauci said Trump's public press conferences in the early spring mostly echoed what members of the White House coronavirus task force were telling him in private.

"I didn't see any discrepancies between what he told us and what we told him and what he ultimately came out publicly and said," Fauci, the country's top infectious diseases expert and head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said.

"He really didn't say anything different than we discussed when we were with him," Fauci said.

During the interview, Fauci stressed that he was speaking about his own conversations and interactions with the president.

"Remember, I'm a small frame in the big picture of what goes on," Fauci said.

Fauci acknowledged that Trump would "want to make sure the country wouldn't get down and out about things," but added, "I don't recall anything that was a gross distortion in anything I spoke to him about."

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/515718-fauci-says-trump-did-not-distort-impact-of-covid-pandemic 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2020 at 9:57am

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

Blah..blah..blah...  skewed facts don't make it so...

Of course that's all you got. LOL Your MO is big on opinion and short on facts.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2020 at 10:02am

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

They'd wear them if it was announced that Covid will make them sterile or impotent...

Careful your misandry is showing.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2020 at 10:10am

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

Blah..blah..blah...  skewed facts don't make it so...

Of course that's all you got. LOL Your MO is big on opinion and short on facts.

Spare me your narcissistic condescension and save it for someone who's easily fooled. 

Misandry is the new word of the day on Facebook?  You're not known to use such big words. Besides you're using it wrong.  In an effort to insult me, you've misapplied the word.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2020 at 10:21am

I just ran a small experiment on the internet to find out the current scientific thinking on masks.

I simply imput the words masks, science and cloth into the search engine.

After I had removed the opinion pieces and other entries without any science backing,  I was left with these links:

Mayo Clinic: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449 pro mask, with qualifications

Oxford University: https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-07-08-oxford-covid-19-study-face-masks-and-coverings-work-act-now pro mask - from demographics centre studies.

Science Daily: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/05/200526115044.htm pro mask with qualifications

and                 https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/08/200825113635.htm still pro mask with further qualifications, update.

CDC:  https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-0948_article  pro mask 

Stamford Medicine News Desk: https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/06/stanford-scientists-contribute-to-who-mask-guidelines.html pro mask

BMJ https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577 Anti mask - if cloth - pro surgical mask use.

University of California: https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent pro mask.

Not a full meta-analysis, but it shows the trends adequately.  This was everything on the first page of results.


You can always find someone who will disagree, even among scientists.  Occasionally the outlier is correct, but not often at all.  Usually there is either a vested interest for the outlier or a psychological problem.  


Different types of masks provide different levels of protection, although most of the protection is for other persons, not the wearer.  They DO  limit disease spread within communities, there is a firm scientific concensus on this.  However, they do not prevent infection, but they limit the amount of infections transmitted (effectively lowering the R0).  They are a valuable tool in epidemic control, but not a magic bullet to prevent spread.


The science on this does not care about your feelings either.


How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2020 at 10:22am

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

Blah..blah..blah...  skewed facts don't make it so...

Of course that's all you got. LOL Your MO is big on opinion and short on facts.

Spare me your narcissistic condescension and save it for someone who's easily fooled. 

Misandry is the new word of the day on Facebook?  You're not known to use such big words. Besides you're using it wrong.  In an effort to insult me, you've misapplied the word.  

Oh it's applied right and fittingly. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2020 at 1:44pm

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Oh it's applied right and fittingly. 


No, no.  Just you.  But we could ask the men and see what they have to say.  But then I'd have to go into how only insecure boys accuse women of such things and why.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2020 at 1:58pm

Fox and the grapes (Aesop's Fables). - Because they can't get one!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2020 at 5:26pm

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

They'd wear them if it was announced that Covid will make them sterile or impotent...

Misandry (/mɪˈsændri/) is the hatred of, contempt for, or prejudice against men or boys in general. Misandry may be manifested in numerous ways, including social exclusionsex discriminationhostilitygynocentrismbelittling of men, violence against men, and sexual objectification.

misandry, misandria

an extreme dislike of males, frequently based upon unhappy experience or upbringing


And it was your choice of going to sexual conditions, sterility and more specifically the impotent comment that gave it away. There were many, many other medical conditions as choices you could have used to make your point that were gender neutral and applied to both sexes, yet you choose to use a specific male condition and a sexual male condition at that. Very telling. You really are not hard to figure out, in fact you outed yourself. I suspected as much given a few of your previous comments.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2020 at 5:40pm

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

I just ran a small experiment on the internet to find out the current scientific thinking on masks.

I simply imput the words masks, science and cloth into the search engine.

After I had removed the opinion pieces and other entries without any science backing,  I was left with these links:

Mayo Clinic: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449 pro mask, with qualifications

Oxford University: https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-07-08-oxford-covid-19-study-face-masks-and-coverings-work-act-now pro mask - from demographics centre studies.

Science Daily: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/05/200526115044.htm pro mask with qualifications

and                 https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/08/200825113635.htm still pro mask with further qualifications, update.

CDC:  https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-0948_article  pro mask 

Stamford Medicine News Desk: https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/06/stanford-scientists-contribute-to-who-mask-guidelines.html pro mask

BMJ https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577 Anti mask - if cloth - pro surgical mask use.

University of California: https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent pro mask.

Not a full meta-analysis, but it shows the trends adequately.  This was everything on the first page of results.


You can always find someone who will disagree, even among scientists.  Occasionally the outlier is correct, but not often at all.  Usually there is either a vested interest for the outlier or a psychological problem.  


Different types of masks provide different levels of protection, although most of the protection is for other persons, not the wearer.  They DO  limit disease spread within communities, there is a firm scientific concensus on this.  However, they do not prevent infection, but they limit the amount of infections transmitted (effectively lowering the R0).  They are a valuable tool in epidemic control, but not a magic bullet to prevent spread.


The science on this does not care about your feelings either.


Are Face Masks Effective? The Evidence.

Published: July 30, 2020; Updated: September 9, 2020
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An overview of the current evidence regarding the effectiveness of face masks.

1. Studies on the effectiveness of face masks

So far, most studies found little to no evidence for the effectiveness of cloth face masks in the general population, neither as personal protective equipment nor as a source control.

  1. A May 2020 meta-study on pandemic influenza published by the US CDC found that face masks had no effect, neither as personal protective equipment nor as a source control. (Source)
  2. A July 2020 review by the Oxford Centre for Evidence-Based Medince found that there is no evidence for the effectiveness of cloth masks against virus infection or transmission. (Source)
  3. A Covid-19 cross-country study by the University of East Anglia found that a mask requirement was of no benefit and could even increase the risk of infection. (Source)
  4. An April 2020 review by two US professors in respiratory and infectious disease from the University of Illinois concluded that face masks have no effect in everyday life, neither as self-protection nor to protect third parties (so-called source control). (Source)
  5. An article in the New England Journal of Medicine from May 2020 came to the conclusion that cloth face masks offer little to no protection in everyday life. (Source)
  6. An April 2020 Cochrane review (preprint) found that face masks in the general population or health care workers didn’t reduce influenza-like illness (ILI) cases. (Source)
  7. An April 2020 review by the Norwich School of Medicine (preprint) found that “the evidence is not sufficiently strong to support widespread use of facemasks”, but supports the use of masks by “particularly vulnerable individuals when in transient higher risk situations.” (Source)
  8. A July 2020 study by Japanese researchers found that cloth masks “offer zero protection against coronavirus” due to their large pore size and generally poor fit. (Source)
  9. A 2015 study in the British Medical Journal BMJ Open found that cloth masks were penetrated by 97% of particles and may increase infection risk by retaining moisture or repeated use. (Source)
Additional aspects
  1. There is increasing evidence that the SARS-2 coronavirus is transmitted, at least in indoor settings, not only by droplets but also by smaller aerosols. However, due to their large pore size and poor fit, cloth masks cannot filter out aerosols (see video analysis below): over 90% of aerosols penetrate or bypass the mask and fill a medium-sized room within minutes.
  2. The WHO admitted to the BBC that its June 2020 mask policy update was due not to new evidence but “political lobbying”: “We had been told by various sources WHO committee reviewing the evidence had not backed masks but they recommended them due to political lobbying. This point was put to WHO who did not deny.” (D. Cohen, BBC Medical Corresponent)
  3. Japan, despite its widespread use of face masks, experienced its most recent influenza epidemic with more than 5 million people falling ill just one year ago, in January and February 2019. However, unlike SARS-2, the influenza virus is transmitted by children, too.
  4. Many states that introduced mandatory face masks on public transport and in shops in spring or early summer, such as Hawaii, California, Argentina, Spain, France and Japan, still saw a strong increase in infections from July onwards, indicating a low effectiveness of mask policies.
  5. Austrian scientists found that the introduction, retraction and re-introduction of mandatory face masks in Austria had no influence at all on the infection rate.
  6. In the US state of Kansas, the 90 counties without mask mandates had lower coronavirus infection rates than the 15 counties with mask mandates. To hide this fact, the Kansas health department tried to manipulate the official statistics and data presentation.
  7. Contrary to common belief, studies in hospitals found that the wearing of a medical mask by surgeons during operations didn’t reduce post-operative bacterial wound infections in patients.
  8. In children, the risk of Covid-19 disease and transmission is very low – much lower than for influenza – and face masks for children are therefore, in general, not indicated.
  9. During the notorious 1918 influenza pandemic, the use of cloth face masks among the general population was widespread and in some places mandatory, but they made  no difference.

2. Studies claiming face masks are effective

Some recent studies argued that cloth face masks are indeed effective against the new coronavirus and could at least prevent the infection of other people. However, most of these studies suffer from poor methodology and sometimes show the opposite of what they claim.

Typically, these studies ignore the effect of other measures, the natural development of infection numbers, changes in test activity, or they compare countries with very different conditions.

An overview:

  1. A German study claimed that the introduction of compulsory masks in German cities had led to a decrease in infections. But the data does not support this: in some cities there was no change, in others a decrease, in others an increase in infections (see graph below). The city of Jena was an ‘exception’ only because it simultaneously introduced the strictest quarantine rules in Germany, but the study did not mention this.
  2. A study in the journal PNAS claimed that masks had led to a decrease in infections in three global hotspots (including New York City). But the study did not take into account the natural decrease in infections and other simultaneous measures. The study was so flawed that over 40 scientists recommended that the study be withdrawn.
  3. A much-cited meta-study in the journal Lancet, commissioned by the WHO, claimed that masks “could” lead to a reduction in the risk of infection, but the studies considered mainly respirators in a hospital setting, not cloth masks in a community setting, the strength of the evidence was reported as “low”, and experts found numerous flaws in the study. Professor Peter Jueni, epidemiologist at the University of Toronto, called the WHO study “essentially useless”.
  4. A US study claimed that mandatory masks had led to a decrease in infections in 15 states. The study did not take into account that the incidence of infection was already declining in most states at that time. A comparison with other states was not made.
  5. A Canadian study claimed that countries with mandatory masks had fewer deaths than countries without mandatory masks. But the study compared African, Latin American, Asian and Eastern European countries with very different infection rates and population structures.

Mandatory masks in German cities: no relevant impact. (IZA 2020)

3. Risks associated with face masks

Wearing masks for a prolonged period of time is not harmless, as the following evidence shows:

  1. The WHO warns of various “side effects” such as difficulty breathing and skin rashes.
  2. Tests conducted by the University Hospital of Leipzig in Germany have shown that face masks significantly reduce the resilience and performance of healthy persons.
  3. A German psychological study with about 1000 participants found “severe psychosocial consequences” due to the introduction of mandatory face masks in Germany.
  4. The Hamburg Environmental Institute warned of the inhalation of chlorine compounds in polyester masks as well as problems in connection with face mask disposal.
  5. The European rapid alert system RAPEX has already recalled 70 mask models because they did not meet EU quality standards and could lead to “serious risks”.
  6. In China, two boys who had to wear a mask during sports classes fainted and died.
  7. In the US, a car driver wearing an N95 (FFP2) mask fainted and crashed into a pole.

Conclusion

Cloth face masks in the general population might be effective, at least in some circumstances, but there is currently little to no evidence supporting this proposition. If the SARS-2 virus is indeed transmitted via indoor aerosols, cloth masks are unlikely to be protective. Health authorities should therefore not assume or suggest that cloth face masks will reduce the rate or risk of infection.

https://swprs.org/face-masks-evidence/

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2020 at 5:50pm

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Oh it's applied right and fittingly. 


No, no.  Just you.  But we could ask the men and see what they have to say.  But then I'd have to go into how only insecure boys accuse women of such things and why.

Oh please do that should be interesting from your particular perspective. How many cats do you have? LOL

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2020 at 6:44am

You are still being very personal AI.

How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2020 at 7:26am

Mind you, I was addressing Carbon's comments, not AI.  Seems AI and my comments were submitted simultaneously.  So... AI went after me.  Not I him. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2020 at 2:40pm

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

I just ran a small experiment on the internet to find out the current scientific thinking on masks.

I simply imput the words masks, science and cloth into the search engine.

After I had removed the opinion pieces and other entries without any science backing,  I was left with these links:

Mayo Clinic: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449 pro mask, with qualifications

Oxford University: https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-07-08-oxford-covid-19-study-face-masks-and-coverings-work-act-now pro mask - from demographics centre studies.

Science Daily: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/05/200526115044.htm pro mask with qualifications

and                 https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/08/200825113635.htm still pro mask with further qualifications, update.

CDC:  https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-0948_article  pro mask 

Stamford Medicine News Desk: https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/06/stanford-scientists-contribute-to-who-mask-guidelines.html pro mask

BMJ https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577 Anti mask - if cloth - pro surgical mask use.

University of California: https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent pro mask.

Not a full meta-analysis, but it shows the trends adequately.  This was everything on the first page of results.


You can always find someone who will disagree, even among scientists.  Occasionally the outlier is correct, but not often at all.  Usually there is either a vested interest for the outlier or a psychological problem.  


Different types of masks provide different levels of protection, although most of the protection is for other persons, not the wearer.  They DO  limit disease spread within communities, there is a firm scientific concensus on this.  However, they do not prevent infection, but they limit the amount of infections transmitted (effectively lowering the R0).  They are a valuable tool in epidemic control, but not a magic bullet to prevent spread.


The science on this does not care about your feelings either.


Not feelings facts. Lot's of studies pre covid show they don't work. Like he says show the RCT's that show they work. You can't.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2020 at 3:59pm

That's odd I've just seen the head of the CDC saying a mask is probably better than a vaccine..

then you have the SNAKE OIL REAL ESTATE CLOWN, saying  Robert was mistaken....

Robert wasn'tt  he just not  repeating the clowns lies......

Biggest 

FAILURE IN HISTORY.......

CANT DENY THAT......

200,000 dead.....


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2020 at 4:25pm

Originally posted by carbon20 carbon20 wrote:

That's odd I've just seen the head of the CDC saying a mask is probably better than a vaccine..

t


"probably" "may"  "might"  all phrases used in conjunction with wearing masks, how very scientific.  Where are the studies and RCT's to show they are effective? Lot's that do show they are not though and that predate COVID and it's politicization.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2020 at 6:32pm

Originally posted by carbon20 carbon20 wrote:

That's odd I've just seen the head of the CDC saying a mask is probably better than a vaccine..

Since we have no approved vaccines, we don't know the efficacy of any vaccines.  But even if we get a vaccine that has a 50% efficacy right out of the gate, a surgical mask has above 75% protection.  Other than that, even if a vaccine is announced by November/December, the likelihood is you and I won't get vaccinated until Autumn of 2022.  

So yeah.  I can see why he said that.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2020 at 10:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2020 at 3:17am

Yeah, Carbon, but what are the chances that we'll have a vaccine with 70% efficacy right out of the gate?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2020 at 3:29am

A vaccine won't be available till fall next year if ever......

And I won't be taking it even though I believe in vaccinations

Best wear a mask........lol


The Associated Press: Gulf between White House's words, Trump's actions on masks.

https://apnews.com/41dc3fc8f146db80754c8f5b2a474c98

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2020 at 4:59am

That's the other thing, Carbon.  Even if a vaccine is developed by the end of this year, it won't be widely available to the public until autumn 2021.  There's a hierarchy of those that come first. Government workers, emergency workers, healthcare workers, then I imagine (or hope) the most vulnerable.  Then comes the rest of us. 

So yes.  Wear a mask. And quit contact lenses.  I'll be posting an article on that study in a few moments.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2020 at 6:42am

Can you really see a educated health worker ,taking an unproven vaccine? 

I'm  a dumb ass,

And there's no way I will LMAO 

Take care, stay safe, 😷😉

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillain%E2%80%93Barr%C3%A9_syndrome#Causes

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2020 at 10:06am

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

There's a hierarchy of those that come first. Government workers, emergency workers, healthcare workers, then I imagine (or hope) the most vulnerable.  


That reminds me of the swine flu, but the time I could get the vaccination the pandemic was almost over.  Now as I have aged I am higher up in the priority list!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2020 at 4:30pm

Originally posted by EdwinSm, EdwinSm, wrote:

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

There's a hierarchy of those that come first. Government workers, emergency workers, healthcare workers, then I imagine (or hope) the most vulnerable.  


That reminds me of the swine flu, but the time I could get the vaccination the pandemic was almost over.  Now as I have aged I am higher up in the priority list!



It happens to the best of us, Edwin!

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