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MU variant: highly resistant ......

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    Posted: September 09 2021 at 1:41am

News-Medical.Net: Mu SARS-CoV-2 variant highly resistant to neutralization by convalescent and vaccinated sera.

https://www.news-medical.net/post.aspx?id=2d43e58c-89b3-4ea7-80fa-d84ffba97868

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2021 at 7:00am

See also [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS-CoV-2_Mu_variant[/url] or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS-CoV-2_Mu_variant and [url]https://www.gisaid.org/hcov19-variants/[/url] or https://www.gisaid.org/hcov19-variants/ GISAID puts US Mu-cases now at 2,435-with 73 cases detected the last 4 weeks. Mexico has 374-5 detected last 4 weeks. Chile has 182 of wich 33 were detected last 4 weeks. Netherlands/NL has 75-3 detected 4 last weeks, Belgium 41, 5 detected last 4 weeks.

With limited testing, vacations, increase again of international airtravel ("freedom"...) "Mu" will get the chance to spread. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2021 at 9:14am

Mu will probably be the dominant variant by November, which means the heavily-traveled American Thanksgiving holiday at the end of the month, spurring alot of illness by Christmas.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2021 at 6:25pm

Originally posted by ViQueen24 ViQueen24 wrote:

Mu will probably be the dominant variant by November, which means the heavily-traveled American Thanksgiving holiday at the end of the month, spurring alot of illness by Christmas.

Those who are resisting vaccination are killing the rest of us, by creating a large reservoir of susceptible human bodies where the virus can grow, transmit and mutate.  

I'm 100% in favor of mandated vaccines.  If folks don't want to accept the vaccine, I would withhold hospital service if they get sick.  Also, I'd make them stay at home.

Freedom?  BAH!  In the US, you have the freedom to get as drunk as you please, but not the freedom to get behind the wheel of a car and drive in public.  If folks are so opposed to vaccination, they should be quarantined at home. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2021 at 9:17pm

 If folks are so opposed to vaccination, they should be quarantined at home.

 A-freakin'-MEN!

And!  People who are not willing to wear masks in public should stay the @#$% home, or be fined.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2021 at 9:32pm

The main port in the "Mu" story is that it can evade imunity...both natural or vaccine made. At least some of the variants/mutations start in people with limited immune response-any virus may get a chance to develop in such a person for months-often resulting in lots of mutations...

The most effective way to stop variants spreading is limiting travel - not the present vaccines. If I am correct the best protection against infection with Delta for vaccinated may be 50%...that is very welcome but far from perfect. 

And not all vaccines may reach 50% protection against asymptomatic infection ! Both duration and sort of vaccine may make a lot of difference. That is why booster vaccines may help limit the spread...

But again Non Pharma Intervention-we will see another lockdown in many places-is stopping the virus much better then the present vaccines !

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2021 at 11:05pm

As I've said here before, we are in a war against Covid.  In a war, you are prudent and use every available weapon.  Masking+distance+testing+lockdowns+vaccines=victory.  It is not rocket science.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2021 at 1:45pm

I'm with Dutch Josh on this one, the vaccines are not a free get-out-of-jail-card. They are not the magic bullet that so many people seem brainwashed into thinking they are. They  don't offer that much protection and, if anything, they are lulling people into a false sense of security that it makes them invincible. I have an elderly aunt and uncle in Europe who, now that they are vaccinated, are back to living their highly sociable life without any other precautions. No masks, no distancing. I think that's a foolish thing to do for two people in their 80's. 

The evidence coming out of Israel, one of the most vaccinated countries on earth, is that the disease is becoming more vaccine resistant in the vaccinated, not in the unvaccinated. Also they've admitted that the vaccines really offer little protection from contracting Covid, they only offer some limited protection from developing a serious disease. 

As for vaccine mandates, well, for once I'm very glad that the USA is a country of gun owners, because if the government tries to mandate vaccines for all then perhaps the people will finally rise up and say enough's enough. It seems, from where I'm sitting, that it's just the scared, the very vulnerable and the elderly who are calling for mandates. Younger people see it for what it is, which is, for most people, a week off work with a heavy cold/flu like illness.  A few of  my cousins have had it and describe it thus. I also have 4 cousins in the UK who had it and felt a bit run down but other than that, had no symptoms at all!!!!!! Very minor.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2021 at 2:12pm

Have a look at this article. It states, with evidence from 15 independent studies, that natural immunity is 27 times more protective against Covid than any immunity conferred by the current covid vaccines. People would be better off NOT getting vaccinated. Have a read.

https://fee.org/articles/harvard-epidemiologist-says-the-case-for-covid-vaccine-passports-was-just-demolished/

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2021 at 5:41pm

The information is out there that we have the best shot out of this pandemic by using all tools together, not over-relying on one or another as a one-trick pony.  If I had had Covid I would still get the vaccine as added protection.  And as a fully vaccinated person, I still limit my trips out to only essential shopping trips/things that can't be ordered in, I still social distance and wear masks and gloves.  This is not rocket science.  This is common sense.  If people are being lulled into a false sense of security, it is because they are not doing their homework and not using common sense.  That is on them, their fault, no one else's.  If one doesn't take care of one's own best interests in the middle of a global pandemic, then when will one?

The evidence is also out there, and has been presented on this site, as recently as two days ago, that younger people are getting far sicker, at far higher rates, than some may believe, and that their essential organs are suffering lasting damage.    Edited to add, for the benefit of lurkers etc., besides the vulnerable and elderly, the health care community, which is about ready to go under, has been screaming for Biden to take this action, which should be self -evident by now.  But just in case it wasn't... now it is...

As for your last paragraph, KM, it is hideously misguided, and misinformed.  Shame on you.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2021 at 7:28pm

Originally posted by ViQueen24 ViQueen24 wrote:

The information is out there that we have the best shot out of this pandemic by using all tools together, not over-relying on one or another as a one-trick pony.  If I had had Covid I would still get the vaccine as added protection.  And as a fully vaccinated person, I still limit my trips out to only essential shopping trips/things that can't be ordered in, I still social distance and wear masks and gloves.  This is not rocket science.  This is common sense.  If people are being lulled into a false sense of security, it is because they are not doing their homework and not using common sense.  That is on them, their fault, no one else's.  If one doesn't take care of one's own best interests in the middle of a global pandemic, then when will one?

The evidence is also out there, and has been presented on this site, as recently as two days ago, that younger people are getting far sicker, at far higher rates, than some may believe, and that their essential organs are suffering lasting damage.  

As for your last paragraph, KM, it is hideously misguided, and misinformed.  Shame on you.


Did you read the article???????

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote Pixie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2021 at 5:20pm

Many of Kiwimum’s post lead me to believe she is anti vax,anti mandate,anti passport. Many countries,covid is  burning through the population like a wild fire. Without the vaccines it would be a lot worst. Armchair criticism in a country of only 3890 cases and 27 deaths is rich!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2021 at 7:34pm

Originally posted by Pixie Pixie wrote:

Many of Kiwimum’s post lead me to believe she is anti vax,anti mandate,anti passport. Many countries,covid is  burning through the population like a wild fire. Without the vaccines it would be a lot worst. Armchair criticism in a country of only 3890 cases and 27 deaths is rich!

I fully support vaccinations with real vaccines. Me and my family are fully up to date with vaccinations. But I do not support any vaccine mandates, nor vaccine passports. I once worked in a medical facility where I had to have hepatitis vaccinations. I knew this when I applied for the job and was happy to have them when I was offered the job. That was my choice. I could have worked elsewhere if I didn't want the shots but I wantéd to work there and it was a dangerous environment. 

The problem I have with the current situation is that the shots do not stop you from getting Covid, from having a high viral load, or from being contagious to others, so the benefit of having them is entirely personal. They may stop you from getting a severe case of Covid and they can lower your chance of death. However, this personal benefit is really only relevant if you are obese, elderly or have underlying medical conditions. I have am none of those things. My family are young and we're all fit and healthy. 

I have a growing number of relatives in Europe, the US, the UK and Australia who have had Covid and it's ranged from almost no symptoms to being flu like and lasting for a week. I'd rather get it and develop natural immunity which all the latest research shows is 13 times more effective than any immunity received from a Covid shot. 

As for the passports, they are the first step in social control and you can bet your last dollar that if they are introduced in the US you'll never get rid of them. They will polarise a society that's already teetering on the edge of complete societal breakdown. They are such a bad idea.

It's very easy for someone who has swallowed the current narrative that vaccines for Covid will save us all to throw the label of anti vaxxer at people who disagree with them, but since the Covid injections are not actually officially vaccines then that doesn't really work, does it?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2021 at 1:03am

DJ, 

The main reason why "covid is burning through the population like a wildfire" is lack of restrictions...I (as a non expert) think maybe a bit less due to lack of vaccines/vaccinations. The UK has a high level of vaccinations-now also a high level of infections because almost all restrictions were lifted. Israel is maybe now seeing the effect of "booster vaccines" because vaccine protection may not last that long, Moderna protects 90%+ against Delta, Pfizer-BioNTech 80%, Janssen 60%, proberbly other vaccines even less...

Still most vaccines against Covid do-at present-a better job then most flu vaccines offering 60% (increase of) protection against severe disease-but much less against infection. 

There-as far as I know-with very limited knowledge-are no "perfect vaccines"...We have to use the vaccines we have-or deal with the consequences if we do choose not to use them...

The big US problem is not only (lack of) good communications, but the general mistrust of "government" being widespread-and often for good reasons...If several groups (Blacks, Hispanics to republicans) do not trust government (for lots of-different) reasons the "social contract" is much weaker then the "social contract" is in for example most of Scandinavia, New Zealand...and maybe even China. 

A "social contract" means the government is seen by those that are governed-"the public"as working in the interest of all. So you accept some rules because they are "in the interest of all". Without to much discussion, polarization...

I am against mandatory vaccinations (just like [url]https://twitter.com/dgurdasani1[/url] or https://twitter.com/dgurdasani1 Indian background) because good communications can result in up to 80%+ level of vaccinations (from 12 y/o+). If 100% would be vaccinated with a vaccine that offers 80% protection against severe disease still 20% would be at risk...You can not get it 100% perfect !

That does not mean that I am against vaccination passports-allthough here in NL there is some discussion on what those passports would mean. "Testing for entry" still would need to test BOTH vaccinated AND unvaccinated...since vaccinated still can get infected...

In health care even the 90%+ vaccinated would need to use PPE/masks (here in NL they may not do so...bad choice)...

So the use of those passports would be limited...(or maybe even close to zero if restaurants, cinema's do not want to work with those passports...they have a staff problem allready). Also there most likely will be a "time stamp" on those passports since protection of vaccines is limited...

 Natural infection may offer better protection against SARS-2 variants, SARS-1 patients still seem to have good protection against SARS-2...However...if possible I never, ever want to get infected with SARS-2/CoViD-19 ! The risks of vaccinations are that much smaller then the risks for getting "natural immunity" I only strongly can warn against such idea's ! 

As far as I know "mild infections" often result in limited immunity...in Manaus-Brazil-the idea was a first wave of Covid did offer a lot of herd immunity...untill Brazil variants showed up (P1, P2) and they did see another explosion of infections...

"Severe infection" may result in "long term immunity" for SARS-2 so far...but at what cost ? With vaccines as a better alternative for most ! Some may not get good enough vaccine immunity-even with boosters-they may need to "limit exposure risks"...

I think "living with the virus" will result in immunity evasive variants...We, much to soon, likely will find out !

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2021 at 2:42pm

Josh did you see ZDoggMD on youtube yesterday? He's an American doctor with a youtube channel and he's 100% in favour of the vaccines. He thinks everyone should have one and he, his wife and their children are all double jabbed. But, yesterday his video was about the vaccine mandates in the US and he is completely against them. He made a most compelling argument against mandatory vaccination, in that it undermines the validity of the vaccines and makes the government's reason to forcing them on to people look underhand. It's an excellent video. It's well worth watching, particularly because he is such a pro-vaxxer. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lryJ2_umSg&t=3s

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2021 at 9:55pm

KiwiMum, thanks for the link...he has a good point in communications. What message are you sending if you tell people to vaccinate but they still would need masks, testing...

Point is-I think-science may be even more divided then politics...I am not neutral-I would go for pre-caution (the way New Zealand is doing very well !)...

Some virologists/epidemiologists expect lifting restrictions when not enough people have enough immunity will result in virus-selection for immunity evasive variants...A lot of them-as far as I can see-think Delta does need both; vaccines AND restrictions to get the R0 under 1....

And that is not the message politics is sending...Increase vaccinations to lift restrictions is exchanging pandemic-control-tools while you need both tools...

"Vaccine religion", expecting miracles while science indicate vaccines on their own are not enough-is an unhealthy mix of understandable emotions and selective science. 

There has to be room for different opinions, critical thinking, if we want to get out of "dead end roads"...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2021 at 1:40pm

I'm not surprised to see that both the NSW parliament in Australia and Congress and it's employees in the US have excluded themselves from the vaccine mandates despite telling everyone else that they must have it. Do as I say, not as I do. 

It's bloody outrageous and I'm surprised they are getting away with this elitism crap. This rushed through "vaccine" experiment is fine for the masses but we're not prepared to risk it is the message they're sending out loud and clear. How can they possibly tell companies with 100 or more employees that vaccination is mandatory and then not vaccinate themselves - afterall they are a room full of older people, therefore  most at risk. Hypocrites.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roni3470 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2021 at 7:15pm

Kiwi - can you post a link or something that supports that?  Just trying to understand the situation.  Thanks!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pixie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2021 at 7:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2021 at 9:21pm

Hi Roni, 

The newsweek article that Pixie posted above was the one I had seen about America. I note that Pixie also posted one that said all Democrats are vaccinated but a mandate for companies of more than 100 people is a mandate for all. Congress and it's employees number way more than 100 and therefore they should be party to the same mandates as every one else, regardless of their reported vaccine status. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

This one is about the NSW parliament.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/sep/08/vaccination-will-be-compulsory-for-more-than-half-of-nsws-public-sector-workers-but-not-for-our-parliament

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pixie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2021 at 9:01am

I believe Biden mandated as far as the executive powers allowed. The legislator and judicial branch I guess need to do their own mandate, they are separate and equal branchs of the government.@

A few points…


https://www.poynter.org/reporting-editing/2021/why-is-congress-exempt-from-the-biden-covid-vaccine-mandate/

The thing to remember is that the president controls the executive branch of government but can’t tell the legislative branch what to do, so Congress can make its own rules about vaccine requirements.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2021/08/06/pelosi-says-fda-approval-of-pfizer-shot-may-prompt-vaccine-mandate-for-lawmakers/?sh=e23d9f27b893


Pelosi said during a press conference that FDA approval for the Pfizer vaccine, which is only authorized for emergency use, would “make a difference in terms of what we can do,” though she noted it’s a decision for Capitol physician Brian P. Monahan.


19 House Democrats sent a letter to Monahan urging him to require lawmakers and staff to be vaccinated or take semi-weekly tests, warning that to give into “partisan pressure” to not mandate them would “call into question the objectivity” of his decision making.


Wendy Parmet, a professor of health policy law at Northeastern University, told Forbes that while Congress has “different” legal parameters than other workplaces, the legal case for vaccine mandates is already “pretty strong.”

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“We cannot require someone to be vaccinated. That’s just not what we can do. It is a matter of privacy to know who is or who isn’t,” Pelosi said in April. She didn’t answer on Friday when asked if she still holds that belief, but said “weighing the equities” may take Monahan to a “different place” on a vaccine mandate.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2021 at 2:25pm

Thanks for that Pixie. It's a complicated situation, that's for sure. I think the bottom line is that whether they do mandate or whether they don't, it has to be one rule for all. Branches of government can't just exclude themselves because they want to when they are forcing the population to comply. It's outrageous. I'm also not sure of the legality of mandates. 

I know that the FDA have approved the Pfizer vaccine but they've approved one that won't be in circulation until 2023, and the one that everyone's actually getting is still under Emergency Authorization, which i think by definition, negates the legality of a mandate. Hopefully someone will test this in the court rooms. 

The fines are huge for businesses who fail to police this mandate, and I'd have thought that businesses have better things to do right now than police the private medical information of the their employees. It's madness.

"Once you've decided that something's absolutely true, you've closed your mind on it, and a closed mind doesn't go anywhere. Question everything. That's what education's all about." ~ David Eddings
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