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PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
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Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic since 2005; Coronavirus COVID-19 Pandemic Discussion Forum.

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Dutch Josh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2020 at 6:08am

DJ-[url]https://www.rivm.nl/en/novel-coronavirus-covid-19/current-information[/url] The way they bring the info needs a translation: we may be at the start of a second wave in the Netherlands. Schools are closing-people going away for trips-most in NL but there are even "lover-meetings" in Aruba. Persons from the EU and US can meet there-and of course a relationship between persons with a mixed EU-US background is "complicated" these days. 

Still-if it is on me-there would be travelrestrictions worldwide. The major problem is no strict rules so problems are not being solved. 

From the Dutch CDC/RIVM: 

14-07-2020 | 14:00 PM

Weekly COVID-19 update: 8-14 July 2020

534 new COVID-19 infections were reported over the past week. Hospital admissions for 16 patients due to COVID-19 were reported (current or previous). 8 deaths were reported. Not all of the reported hospital admissions or deaths occurred within the last week. Some patients are reported later. For this reason, the figures are often supplemented with previous reports that had not yet been included.

In the past week, the number of reports of COVID-19 infections increased with 102 compared to the previous week. At that time, 432 new COVID-19 infections were reported.

Since 1 June, anyone with symptoms can get tested. However, it is possible that not all people with COVID-19 infections will request a test. The actual numbers in the Netherlands are therefore probably higher than the numbers stated here.

Minor local outbreaks

Throughout the country a number of small local outbreaks (clusters) with infections are visible. These small clusters of three or more infections are now more visible because the number of infections is considerably lower than in the months March to May. Usually we find these clusters in the household- and family setting. In addition, local outbreaks are also visible in, for example, businesses, nursing homes, student homes or sports clubs.

With the easing of the restrictions and the holiday season approaching, international travel traffic is also picking up again. As of this week, the travel history will be included in the weekly epidemiological report (in Dutch).

(the map gives an indication of how Covid19 did spread) 

[url]https://nltimes.nl/2020/07/14/new-covid-19-report-shows-8-deaths-16-hospitalizations-69-test-positive-travel[/url], [url]https://nltimes.nl/2020/07/14/mayors-prepping-second-covid-19-wave-necessarily-nationwide-lockdown[/url] and [url]https://nltimes.nl/2020/07/14/netherlands-still-pushing-eu8-billion-fossil-fuel-industry-annually-environmental[/url] 

[url]https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/07/prinsjesdag-festivities-cancelled-for-the-first-time-since-1904/[/url]

PP; case, case, cluster, cluster, boom-we seem to be in the cluster, cluster phase

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2020 at 9:26am

DJ-From [url]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/netherlands/[/url] how numbers are creeping up again-wonder when some "authority" will say something more usefull then that the numbers are "not alarming". Playing stupid, closing their eyes-experts showed their expertise in getting us into a pandemic in february. They will do that again without losing their job ? 

(last week new NL tested cases with july 14-15 a mix of counting=average 60)

july 20 185

july 19 144

july 18 127

july 17 103

july 16  99

july 15 106

july 14  53

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2020 at 2:11pm

[url]https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/07/coronavirus-daily-infections-rise-while-concerns-raise-about-accuracy-of-dashboard/[/url];

Daily coronavirus infections have risen by the highest daily amount in a month, while some researchers raised concerns that the official ‘coronavirus dashboard’ is not registering all instances. On Monday, the RIVM reported 185 new positive tests, on Sunday there were 144 while on Saturday there were 127, reports NOS. Andreas Voss, a professor of infection prevention at Radboud teaching hospital in Nijmegen, and member of the Outbreak Management Team, told NPO Radio that the rise was ‘to be expected after relaxing the lockdown’ and predicted more hospital admissions in four or five weeks. However, Marino van Zelst, a student at Tilburg University, told the NRC that he believes 264 too few infections have been measured this month by the dashboard. The paper reports that this dashboard is judged a crucial weapon by the government to measure how far to continue relaxing controls – or whether to impose new ones. Van Zelst claimed that the problems were related to corrections of previous faults in the numbers. A spokesperson for the RIVM confirmed that there are corrections of the numbers, but told the paper that the number of positive tests reported depended above all on people’s willingness to get the test. Last week, the RIVM reported that more than eight in 10 Dutch people with cold symptoms are not requesting a corona test, although a fifth are staying home.

DJ-Things could go fast in NL [url]https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/vrees-voor-enkele-honderden-coronabesmettingen-na-uitbraak-in-cafe-hillegom~adcc3073/?referrer=https://www.gelderlander.nl/binnenland/live-ggd-directeur-vreest-honderden-besmettingen-hillegom-trump-vindt-mondkapje-nu-patriottisch~af1dcac6/[/url] google translate/part;

The local outbreak of the coronavirus in Hillegom in South Holland has become much larger than initially thought. The 23 people who contracted the coronavirus in a local cafe may have infected "several hundred" others. Director Sjaak de Gouw of the GGD Hollands Midden fears this. He calls it "disturbing". He said that today in the radio program News and Co.

All residents of the site who tested positive for Covid-19 have investigated the GGD where they have been. Café De Kleine Beurs emerged as a common source. They also check with whom they have had contact in recent days. ,, That turned out to be disturbing. A number of people continued to work with minor complaints, ”says De Gouw. ,, That is in our genes, that we are not faint and just start working with a nose ratio or cough. But in this case it means that these people have many close contacts. Because if people have been to work and interacted with other people there, we must all follow those people. And then you are soon talking about a multiple of those 23. "
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2020 at 7:07am

DJ-Today another 163 new tested cases in NL. R0=1.29, 19 new hospitalizations, 7 new tested deaths in 1 week. With many people on holliday that will return with various forms of Covid19. Putting the economy first-by the government-gives the same results in NL as in the rest of the world-a disaster !

[url]https://nltimes.nl/2020/07/21/covid-19-rise-sign-possible-second-wave-wake-call-says-expert[/url];

News of an alarming increase in the number of SARS-CoV-2 infections in the Netherlands must serve as a reminder to people to remain cautious and vigilant, said Aura Timen, the head of the Center for Infectious Disease Control. She said her team feared people have become too cavalier and were ignoring the prevailing advice, including maintaining a safe physical distance of at least 1.5 meters from others.

She noted the "significant increase" in every benchmark which measures the spread of the novel coronavirus responsible for respiratory illness Covid-19. It includes the near doubling of positive tests for the virus recorded last week, the rise in the percentage of people getting a positive result out of all those who were tested, and the rise in the basic reproduction number of the virus to 1.29, which means that every 100 infected patients will likely pass the virus on to 129 others.

"If this continues, we can lose control of the virus. This is a wake-up call: we cannot go on like this," she told broadcaster NOS on Tuesday. She said that if the situation continues to deteriorate, the risk of a second wave of infections becomes more likely.

Just last week a milestone was reached with the fewest number of Covid-19 patients in hospital since early March. However, on Tuesday public health agency RIVM said SARS-CoV-2 was now spreading at its worst rate since March 12, which led to a sharp spike in hospitalizations for Covid-19 and a subsequent increase in deaths linked to the disease.

"We have all reduced the virus by following the measures well," Timen told the broadcaster. "We have to get back to that behavior," she continued. "People now have a sense of freedom and want to catch up on parties," a decision which has consequences. "Our concern is that the measures are no longer being observed."

She said people have to continue to adhere to the advice from the RIVM by first remaining strict about keeping a 1.5-meter physical distance from people. This includes staying home as much as possible. They also have to wash their hands frequently, sneeze or cough into their elbow, and use disposable tissues. At the onset of symptoms like a fever, cold or flu, people must call the municipal health service GGD to schedule a test for an active SARS-CoV-2 infection.

DJ-Of course NO mention of international (air) travel, government reopening to "safe the economy". If things go wrong blame the citizens...

[url]https://nltimes.nl/2020/07/21/nearly-thousand-test-positive-covid-19-big-increase-last-week[/url] and [url]https://nltimes.nl/2020/07/21/nl-residents-say-work-home-video-calls-stay[/url] DJ-There is no law giving workers a right to work from home if possible. Again politics keeps on failing ! [url]https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/07/wake-up-call-as-coronavirus-cases-in-netherlands-almost-double-in-a-week/[/url] and [url]https://www.rivm.nl/en/news/number-of-covid-19-infections-is-increasing[/url] A major rise in the age group of 20 to 40 y/o. (DJ- if tested cases doubled most likely the untested number of cases did go up even more. Certainly if only 12% of people with symptoms did go for a test. Another form of testing is needed to get a view on how widespread (40-50% without symptoms) Covid19 realy is. Not very likely RIVM/government will go for that kind of testing.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2020 at 3:48am

DJ-Some links on Dutch corona-news; 

[url]https://innovationorigins.com/british-scientists-also-see-a-link-between-covid-19-and-particulate-matter-in-dutch-province-of-brabant/[/url]

[url]https://innovationorigins.com/dutch-university-hospital-radboudumc-finds-genetic-mutation-tlr7-as-a-cause-for-corona/[/url]

[url]https://innovationorigins.com/this-is-how-sars-cov-2-shuts-down-our-immune-system/[/url]

[url]https://innovationorigins.com/update-this-is-how-the-sars-cov-2-virus-spreads-through-indoor-air/[/url]

[url]https://nltimes.nl/2020/07/27/long-distance-relationships-exempt-dutch-entry-ban-starting-today[/url]

[url]https://nltimes.nl/2020/07/27/blood-donors-wanted-coronavirus-medicine[/url]

[url]https://nltimes.nl/2020/07/26/majority-dutch-want-face-masks-mandatory-public[/url] but [url]https://nltimes.nl/2020/07/26/virologist-face-masks-will-help-people-still-keep-distance[/url] 

[url]https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/07/catering-firms-likely-to-shed-a-quarter-of-staff-as-coronavirus-measures-bite/[/url]

[url]https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/07/positive-coronavirus-tests-reach-seven-week-high-but-hospital-admissions-are-down/[/url]

The number of new coronavirus cases in the Netherlands rose by 214 on Sunday – the highest daily increase since June 7, according to new official figures. There has been a slight upward trend in the number of new infections in the Netherlands in recent days, and requests for tests have been rising at a rate of around 1,000 a day, website Nu.nl reported at the weekend. At the same time, the number of people being treated in hospital for coronavirus fell to 67 on Sunday, with a further 16 people in intensive care. This is the lowest number of coronavirus hospital patients in recent months. Testing Local health boards have been ramping up testing facilities because of the increase in demand and to try to ensure people get the results within 48 hours. On Friday, officials planned in a record 20,553 test appointments, a spokesman for the national health board GGD-GHOR told Nu.nl. There have been complaints in some areas about long waits for tests and again for the results.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2020 at 6:38am

DJ-Latest update from the Dutch CDC-RIVM [url]https://www.rivm.nl/en/novel-coronavirus-covid-19/current-information[/url] 

28-07-2020 | 14:30 PM

Weekly COVID-19 update: 22-28 July 2020

1,329 new COVID-19 infections were reported over the past week. That is 342 more than the number of confirmed cases reported last week and 795 more than the week before that. Hospital admissions (current or previous) due to COVID-19 were reported during the past week for 23 patients. That is 4 more than last week. 

9 deaths of laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 patients were reported, 2 more than the week before. 

The number of new people who tested positive in the Netherlands continues to increase. In the GGD test lanes, the number of tests increased by almost 23,000 compared to the previous week. The percentage of positive tests remained the same as a week earlier: 1.0%. Just like last week, the reproduction number is above 1.  See the news item: Number of COVID-19 infections continues to increase

[url]https://www.rivm.nl/en/news/number-of-covid-19-infections-continues-to-increase[/url]

The virus continues to spread in the Netherlands. The reproduction number (R) indicates how many other people are infected on average by one person who has the novel coronavirus. The reproduction number is 1.40. This means that 100 people who are infected with the novel coronavirus will collectively infect another 140 people.

Although the number is slightly higher than the 1.29 reported last week, the upper limit of the bandwidth has hardly changed. This indicates that the situation has not changed much over the past week. 

There are regional differences in the number of confirmed cases (see figure 1). This is also visible in the total number of tests performed in the test lanes per 100,000 inhabitants and the percentage of positive tests per region. (see epidemiological report - only in Dutch)  The provinces of South Holland and North Holland in particular show an increase in the number of confirmed cases. The number of new infections remains stable and low in the provinces of Friesland, Groningen, Drenthe and Flevoland.

In addition to an increase in the number of infections, there is also a shift in age structure. In recent weeks, we have seen a stronger increase among younger age groups than among older age groups.

More testing, but percentage of positive tests remains stable

Between 20 July and 26 July, 111,764 people* were tested at the GGD test sites. That is an increase of more than 22,878 tests compared to the week before, when 88,886 tests were administered. The percentage of people who tested positive remained the same at 1.0%.  

*Source: GGD-GHOR

Number of infection clusters is increasing 

Spread throughout the country, there is an increase in the number of small local outbreaks (clusters) of three or more related infections. There are currently 133 active COVID-19 clusters in the Netherlands. The average size of these clusters is 5.9 people (range: 3-23). Most infections still take place within the home. The number of infection clusters due to contact with other family members, friends, at parties, in the workplace or other leisure activities is increasing.

Source and contact tracing 

The results of source and contact tracing are now available up to week 29 (6 June to 19 July). Among the close contacts identified in week 29, 354 COVID-19 infections were identified (10.9%). The percentage of contacts that were infected varied between household members and other close contacts. 17.9% of the household members turned out to be infected with the novel coronavirus. 6.8% of the other close contacts were infected.

To prevent the virus from continuing to spread, it is important for people to comply with the measures: Keep your distance, and stay home and get tested if you have symptoms. Wash your hands, sneeze and cough into your elbow, and use paper tissues. 

DJ-It also would be nice if international travel was limited, people from places with high infection rates would be forced to go into a two week quarantine and facemasks were mandatory. Still the RIVM and Dutch politics blame citizens while they themselves fail in setting effective rules to get a grip on the virus. 

Most cases are in the west and southwest (borders Antwerp provence in Belgium) of the NL

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2020 at 8:38am

DJ-The conservative cabinet has been succesfull in increasing Covid-19 in NL by reopening almost everything and not stopping international airtravel. No doubt "our"PM Rutte will keep blaming a lack of handwashing as the main reason for the present exponential growth in most of the NL (only the north and east of NL doing reasonable-still-increase here is on its way...) 

[url]https://www.rivm.nl/en/novel-coronavirus-covid-19/current-information[/url] ;

04-08-2020 | 14:30 PM

Weekly COVID-19 update: 29 July - 4 Aug 2020

2,588  new COVID-19 infections were reported over the past week. That is 1,259  more than the number of confirmed cases reported last week and 795 more than the week before that. Hospital admissions (current or previous) due to COVID-19 were reported during the past week for 44 patients. That is 21 more than last week. 

6 deaths of laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 patients were reported, 3 less than the week before. 

The number of new people who tested positive in the Netherlands has almost doubled compared to the previous week. Approximately 10,000 fewer people have been tested in the GGD test lanes in the past week compared to the week before that. The percentage of positive tests in the Netherlands increased this week from 1.1% in the week of 20 July to 2.3% in the week of 27 July. Just as last week, the reproduction number is above 1. See the news item Number of confirmed COVID-19 infections almost doubled last week.

[url]https://www.rivm.nl/en/news/number-of-confirmed-covid-19-infections-almost-doubled-last-week[/url]

Percentage of positive tests doubled in the past week, fewer people tested 

Between 27 July and 2 August, the number of people tested at the GGD test sites was just over 100,000*, a decrease of about 10,000 people tested compared to the previous week. The test results are now known for just under 100,000 people. The percentage of positive tests in the GGD test lanes more than doubled, rising from 1.1% in the week of 20 July to 2.3% in the week of 27 July. The percentage of positive tests was higher than last week in almost all regions; the highest percentage (3%-7%) was seen in the GGD regions of Rotterdam-Rijnmond, Amsterdam, West-Brabant, and Haaglanden. These are also the regions where most of the known clusters are located, and where a relatively large number of people were tested because they were a close contact of a person with a confirmed COVID-19 infection. 

One-quarter of the people who tested positive are in the age group of 20-29 years old. However, half of the people who tested positive and have been hospitalised are 60 years or older.
Hospital admissions (current or previous) due to COVID-19 were reported during the past week for 44 patients. That is 21 more than last week. 

*Source: GGD-GHOR

Reproduction number R

The reproduction number (R) indicates how many other people are infected on average by one person who has the novel coronavirus. The reproduction number is 1.20. This means that 100 people who are infected with the novel coronavirus will collectively infect another 120 people. Although the number is lower than the 1.40 reported last week, the bandwidth has hardly changed. The confidence interval is still entirely above 1. 

Number of infection clusters rises to 242

There are currently 242 known active COVID-19 clusters in the Netherlands. This represents an increase of 109 clusters of three or more related infections compared to the previous week. Over the past week, the average size of these clusters was 5.7 people (range: 3-37). The GGD is using source and contract tracing to try to identify where each infected person contracted the novel coronavirus. The source of most infections is still within the home; this is the case in 52.8% of all clusters. Most of the other infections are the result of contact with other family members, friends, at parties, in the workplace or other leisure activities such as cafés, restaurants or sports clubs. In 70% of the infection clusters, the source has not yet been registered; this figure is higher than last week due to delays in registration as a result of the large number of reports in a number of regions. 

Source and contact tracing

The results of source and contact tracing are now available up to week 30 (13 July to 26 July). Among the close contacts identified in that 14-day monitoring period, 344 COVID-19 infections were identified (8.4% of all close contacts). The percentage of contacts that were infected varied between household members and other close contacts. In the monitoring period from 13 July to 26 July, 13.0% of the household members turned out to be infected with the novel coronavirus. 5.6% of the other close contacts were infected.

Other viruses active in the Netherlands 

Samples are being taken from a sample set of people with flu-like symptoms or other acute respiratory symptoms who go to a GP. These samples are taken by GPs from practices that are testing stations for the primary care database maintained by the Netherlands Institute for Health Services Research (NIVEL).  RIVM National Institute for Public Health and the Environment   then tests those samples for five viruses: the influenza virus, the RS virus, the rhinovirus, the enterovirus, and SARS-CoV-2 (the novel coronavirus). From late January to mid-March, the influenza virus was frequently detected. From March to early May, a positive test for viruses at the testing stations primarily detected the novel coronavirus. From 11 May to 27 July, the rhinovirus was the virus found most frequently in the samples. (see figure 2). It is possible that people who tested negative may still have other viruses, since the tests only cover a limited number of viruses. As of this week, this report will be included in the epidemiological report.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2020 at 2:46pm

I think we are seeing virus fatigue......

Governments have set a timeline..... 

IE,

how long can we afford lock down say 6 months......

After that we have to open up,

 come what may, because economies crash.....

Im finding it all very interesting.....

And a

Tad worrisome.....

Take care all..... 😷😜







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2020 at 8:53pm

DJ-Facemasks would go against the constitution, quarantining people from high risk countries only on a voluntary basis....how you are going to fight a pandemic this way ? 

In combination with utter stupidity of "experts" from the RIVM that "do not see proof facemasks offer protection", "young people do not get ill from the virus etc...  

Of course stupidity is not only a Dutch problem, but we do have a history of largest legionella, Q-fever outbreaks in the world. Over 20% of Dutch mink farms have Covid19-and still no real action.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2020 at 10:47pm

Originally posted by Dutch Josh Dutch Josh wrote:

DJ-Facemasks would go against the constitution,


Going back in time there were many arguments against wearing seat belts in cars, but over time they have become acceptable.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2020 at 11:27pm

Edwin SM, safety belts, helmets on mopeds, etc "do not go against the constitution". So I do not understand why there is such strong protest against face masks during the pandemic in NL. I just ran into a Dutch article [url]https://www.gelderlander.nl/ede/gemuilkorfd-over-straat-draag-je-een-mondkapje-krijg-je-ongevraagd-overal-commentaar~a09860dc/[/url] of a youg female reporter in Ede-a small town. She did wear a face mask for one day in the city center there and was confronted with "silent agression". 

The "national government" dumped a lot of policy in this pandemic to a mix of "safety regions"and towns. So now [url]https://nltimes.nl/2020/08/05/face-masks-mandatory-amsterdam-rotterdam-areas-9-fines-day-1[/url] with cases exploding in some area's of Amsterdam, Rotterdam you need towear a mask, The Hague-also cases exploding-does not have that rule...you need a face mask in public transport or a (overcrowded) airplane.

I live not far from the German border-there you need a facemask in lots of places. Here in NL you may get beaten up by some folks for wearing a face mask. Bizar !

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2020 at 2:17am

we are having a debate on our constitution,wether it's unconstitutional to close our borders to the other states,

Considering our constitution was written 20 years before the 1918 Spanish Flu,and a pandemic was not even thought about never mind a provision written into the constitution for a pandemic,how could it be against the constitution,im sure founding fathers everywhere if being aware of a pandemic,would have written provisions into constitution,

We are in unprecedented times, unprecedented actions are required......

So tear up any constitution that doesn't make provision for a pandemic

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2020 at 3:22am

I don't mean tear up the constitution literary.....

if there's no provision, then you cant cite it can you? 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2020 at 4:14am

As an aside... In the U.S. you would not be talking just "constitutional".  The Bill of Rights is also in consideration.  Rights can be suspended, but not unilaterally and there are other provisions.  In a State of National Emergency, certain rights can be suspended by POTUS.  However, Congress must be notified and those suspensions can be overturned.  The idea being that there is a time frame, but with limits.  Is there nothing of that nature in the Netherlands?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2020 at 4:59am

I think the story about facemasks not being constitutional is a facade. Maybe parliament wants to have their voices heard-not bad when at least someone starts somewere....the parties supporting the government do not want to discuss it now-only when the ministers return from their holidays...

In a bizarre framework "safetyregions" (NLis split in about 26 safetyregions-headed by the mayor of the largest city in that region) can-temporary-make their own rules. (That is what Amsterdam and Rotterdam are doing now-The Hague-same sharp increases does NOT make facemasks mandatory in some area's). 

Policy is based on RIVM numbers-but numbers seem to be incomplete....I follow a Dutch writer on twitter (Also behind [url]https://innovationorigins.com/the-corona-map-covid-19-returns-from-vacation-while-countries-are-still-recovering/[/url]) who is shocked by the total lack of cohesion and vision in this crisis-we are repeating the same mistakes we made in february-winterholidays (only now on a larger scale). 

What I do understand that in Belgium every mayor can make his/her own policy....at the end national politicians than can choose who they want to blame-the citizens or the mayors-while international (air) travel goes on-and states did buy shares to help the airlines...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2020 at 5:48am






To be honest I'm absolutely gobsmacked at the reaction  of both people and governments to this pandemic,

Watching with interest....

Thinking how lucky I am that im living here......

Take care all, keep safe, 😷😉


Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2020 at 8:56pm

DJ-In the middle of the worst healthcrisis of at least the last 100 years our PM and health minister had to break their holiday to "meet the press". Yesterday-august 6-did see another 601 new tested Covid-cases. Most of it in the western part of the country. 

Our PM-more or less asked the safetyregions and mayors "to do their best". No mandatory testing of people arriving from high risk countries on airports-"but they will be politely asked to self isolate". "Our" government hopes people will know they were at risk of being infected and take their responsability....

Hotels-restaurants-cafe's (HoReCa) have to write down names and adresses of their guests....the HoReCa organization already is saying that this is asking to much of them....

Also-the Dutch government does not believe in facemasks to slow down the virus....the fact that NL stands more or less alone in this RIVM/Dutch CDC "part of knowledge" may be seen as an act of courage by "our" PM (not an act of utter stupidity..)

Also student-introductions wll have to stop drinking alcohol at their meeting during the introduction (and after that get drunk elsewere)...

DJ-The utter incompetence of this government, the tendency the not take any responsability themselves-making "safety regions" responsible without proper knowledge in my opinion is becoming criminal. 

History-from the february wintersports will repeat itself with people now returning from their holidays. "But blame the people"-not the decision to allow international travel. 

A few links to show I am not making this up; [url]https://nltimes.nl/2020/08/06/rutte-virus-advancing-dangerously[/url] and [url]https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/08/cafes-face-closure-and-mayors-get-curfew-powers-as-dutch-tackle-coronavirus-surge/[/url]

Schools will reopen in the coming weeks [url]https://nltimes.nl/2020/08/06/covid-19-quarter-dutch-schools-dont-proper-ventilation[/url] so the virus will spread further.

The Dutch government does not see an increase in hospitalizations and ICU admissions-so "no need to act".....Finland has already decided people coming from NL have to get a 2 weeks quarantine before entering Finland. Other countries soon will follow. It is only a matter of time before we-in NL-become a corona-hotspot. Hospitals are not ready for it....

Both "experts" and "policymakers" seem to be unaware of the around 40% a/pre-symptomatic spread here in NL.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2020 at 6:30am

There is a new US study giving projections for Covid19-NL would become a disasterzone....[url]https://www.prnewswire.com/il/news-releases/first-covid-19-global-forecast-ihme-projects-three-quarters-of-a-million-lives-could-be-saved-by-january-1-807013447.html[/url] or https://www.prnewswire.com/il/news-releases/first-covid-19-global-forecast-ihme-projects-three-quarters-of-a-million-lives-could-be-saved-by-january-1-807013447.html ; Under the most likely of IHME's scenarios, the nations with the highest per capita total deaths would be the US Virgin Islands, the Netherlands, and Spain.

DJ-[url]https://covid19.healthdata.org/netherlands?view=total-deaths&tab=trend[/url] or https://covid19.healthdata.org/netherlands?view=total-deaths&tab=trend the trend would bring "us" in NL to close to 100.000 deaths, we now have over 6240 Covid-tested deaths. Rise in deaths would start from november....

DJ-I do not know what to think of these "models". Face-masks are not used often here-only mandatory in public transport. There is a growing tendency to take Covid19 less serious. But would that make NL that special ? 

Maybe [url]https://nltimes.nl/2020/09/05/coronavirus-found-3-mink-farms-47-farms-affected-date[/url] or https://nltimes.nl/2020/09/05/coronavirus-found-3-mink-farms-47-farms-affected-date has something to do with this projection ? 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2020 at 8:20am

If those models are correct then it looks like we will be in for great disruptions over the winter (northern hemisphere), so we had better look to our stock levels now while we can.


Thanks Josh for posting the report - I have saved a hard copy to look at over time (to see how it pans out).  At least Finland will do well in their forecasts provided restrictions are not eased.  But over all the death rates might bring the society chaos that I was sort of dreading  at the beginning of the pandemic.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2020 at 11:28pm

EdwinSM-Finland is doing very well ! When I look at [url]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/[/url] or https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ Finland is at place 100 of general cases. At 115 in cases per million of population and at 75 in deaths per million. Much better than most other European countries. Certainly with in this list a lot of countries poor in testing-while Finland has a very good healthcare system ! 

Nothing wrong with enough food and drinks in the house !                 (eating is a personal weak spot...)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2020 at 1:00am

Originally posted by Dutch Josh Dutch Josh wrote:

There is a new US study giving projections for Covid19-NL would become a disasterzone.... Under the most likely of IHME's scenarios, the nations with the highest per capita total deaths would be the US Virgin Islands, the Netherlands, and Spain


I was looking at this model over the weekend, comparing the estimates against where countries are currently at   My conclusion was that the estimates for the Netherlands and for Japan seem to be very surprising given their current low levels.  Then I looked at the ranges given for deaths under the Worst Case,   Japan is at 287 635 deaths the range for that worst case is from 25 669 - 758 716;  The range for the Netherlands is almost as bad, estimated 94 332 deaths but the range is 21 815 - 186 842, 

The Philippines is also another country where there is a wide range (but I suspect that the current figures might be on the low side with a lot of cases not reported,)

Given such variations in the range it means they have a very low level of confidence in what the model is showing for the Netherlands (ie they are staying they do not really know what will happen there in the next three to four months). For other countries they seem to have a much better confidence in how the pandemic will unfold.   

They seem to have more confidence in the estimates for South America, and to me this implies that they are expecting the pandemic to slow down there as they move into their summer.


I have not idea why they expect corvid-19 to explode in the USA Virgin Islands.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2020 at 10:12am

EdwinSM if there is a CFR of 0,5% -to put it simple a 1000 people would need to be infected to get 5 people to die from the givin illness. With 17.2 million people living in NL 0.5% would be 86.000-if all people would get infected. If the ratio would be 1% you get 172.000-with all people getting infected..... Since the numbers in the article were for totals till 1-1-2021 those numbers do not make that much sense to me....they are very extreme. 

We do see an increase of infections in NL. The media/Dutch CDC in a hurry then also mentions hospital cases NOT going up. Of course they do not say YET. We will not escape-it looks like-from autumn/winter increases. We now have 6243 deaths due to Covid19 in NL-since february. It would be shocking if that number would double by the end of the year...

Thanks for your info and idea's/thinking.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2020 at 6:26am

DJ-Today we have [url]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/[/url] or https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ 1974 new tested cases in NL. For comparison all of Germany had 856. Belgium did have 2028 new cases today-there they kicked out the virologists that where in the way the government wanted "to save the economy". 

Our "government" will "come with some measures" in a few hardest hit regions. Closing hour of bars will be midnight, maximum groups will be 50 instead of 100 "unless"blablabla...

Our government manages to get in problems both with people that take this pandemic serious AND those that are against all NPI. While India biggest vaccine producer is in the news with not before 2024 there will be enough vaccines to vaccinate the global population. 

Our PM/government is not that far away from "trump-politics" but only with "a friendly smile" 

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzcJCeZSbYk[/url] or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzcJCeZSbYk The Chiffons 1966;

Sweet talking guy, talking sweet kinda lies
Don't you believe in him, if you do he'll make you cry
He'll send you flowers and paint the town with another girl
He's a sweet talkin' guy
(Sweet talkin' guy)
But he's my kind of guy
(Sweet talkin' guy)
Sweeter than sugar, kisses like wine
(Oh he's so fine)
Don't let him under your skin, cause you'll never win
(No you'll never win)
Don't give him love today, tomorrow he's on his way
He's a sweet talkin' guy
(Sweet talkin' guy)
But he's my kind of guy
(Sweet talkin' guy)
Why do I love him like I do
He's a sweet talkin'
(Sweet talkin')
Sweet talkin'
(Sweet talkin') guy
Stay away from him, stay away from him, don't believe his lyin'
(Stay away from him)
No, no, no you'll never win, no you'll never win,…


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 22 2020 at 12:29am

DJ-Allthough not direct Covid19 related [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forum_for_Democracy[/url] or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forum_for_Democracy has a lot of similarity with "trumpism". Both deny climate change or Covid19. The following article  [url]https://www.groene.nl/artikel/een-geschenk-uit-washington[/url] is a google translation;

"A gift from Washington"


Forum for Democracy organized a party meeting at the American embassy in The Hague, hosted by Ambassador Pete Hoekstra. This is at odds with international treaties.

Casper Thomas and Coen van de Ven

September 21, 2020

The American ambassador Pete Hoekstra already gave a speech in 2019 during a party conference of the Forum for Democracy.
© ANP / Piroschka van de Wouw
It's Thursday September 10th. As night falls, a party trickles into the American embassy at John Adams Park in Wassenaar. They are here for a meeting that revolves around Forum for Democracy, the party of leader Thierry Baudet who hopes to significantly expand his two seats in the House of Representatives in the coming elections. The thirty to forty names on the guest list form a striking group: party leaders supplemented by wealthy entrepreneurs. The host is ambassador Pete Hoekstra.

"About 40 percent of the guests were entrepreneurs. The rest were party leaders, "estimates media entrepreneur Yves Gijrath, who was in this exclusive group. Other attendees confirm the mix of party executives and predominantly entrepreneurs. "It was a kind of network meeting to see each other again," said Member of Parliament Wybren van Haga, who was expelled from VVD and joined Baudet. "People around Forum, the inner circle."

De Groene managed to inspect the email to the invitees. It states that the guests may join the embassy "at the invitation of Forum for Democracy and Pete Hoekstra" - in that order. Anyone who has questions or is still waiting for the formal invitation from the embassy is requested to contact the sender of the mail, Joyce Vastenhouw, who signs with her 06-number and her position within the party: "Head of Fundraising".

The company in Wassenaar awaits a special evening. When entering, satin masks are handed out with both the American and Dutch flags, an illustration of the old friendship between the two countries. In the hall there is a buffet with burgers and chicken. Those present will also be treated to a speech by Hoekstra, who tells anecdotes about Trump and complains that there is negative talk about the American president in the Netherlands. Baudet will have the opportunity to unveil his campaign strategy and to show a campaign video about Forums 'vision of the Netherlands in 2040'.

The audience seems to have been chosen for their sympathy for the party. Several attendees are already donors. "It was very spectacular," said Gijrath. "Especially the way in which the party will campaign and how much it will cost." He himself is not a member, he emphasizes, but he has been following Baudet and his movement with interest for years. Another entrepreneur who was allowed to come, but was abroad on business, confirms what other sources also say: they were not just invited. "I do business in America, I am a FvD member and I donate to the party. But of course there are fifty thousand other members, so it is special that they choose me. ”It underlines the impression the invitation made: the evening at the embassy, on American soil, had as one of the goals to supplement the Forum's party budget. .

In his podcast, Gijrath describes the evening as "a kind of funding meeting". His conversation partner during the recording, the day after September 10, was Erik de Vlieger, a real estate entrepreneur living in Portugal. Together they gloat about a possible second term for President of Trump. If the Republicans win the election, De Vlieger predicts, Democratic leaders will be arrested and Trump will "replace all judges." And: Trump is coming to the Netherlands "to help Baudet", De Vlieger is convinced of that.

But Forum already enjoys support from the Trump administration in a way. Ambassador Hoekstra was a prominent speaker at the party congress in December last year. He was "delighted to be there", advocated populism and proclaimed that "the transatlantic bond can be changed". A registration of that speech can be seen on the Facebook page of FvD, with a flashing banner below: "Support our movement, become a member!" And a link to the registration form. Hoekstra is apparently a member of the board.

Hoekstra's performance arouses surprise, also in his home country. "Speaking at a party congress is a clear identification with a party," said Alan Henrikson, professor emeritus of the history of international relations at The Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy. According to Henrikson, this is "inappropriate" for a diplomat.
Hoekstra also appeared in the "FvD news", an online video series in which Baudet presents campaign messages and discusses politics and culture with FvD employees and sympathizers. The May 1, 2020 episode is entirely devoted to a conversation with Hoekstra about China. The ambassador is sitting at the table with an FvD mug in front of him. The party logo is visible in the background and a link to a membership form appears at the bottom of the screen. Until recently, one of the opening images of the Forum website was a moving image of a speeching Pete Hoekstra.

It is not surprising that Hoekstra and Forum have ended up together. Hoekstra, a politician with roots in the Tea Party and very conservative views when it comes to gay rights and abortion, finds little ideological connection in his host country. But with Baudet, one of Trump's rare open admirers in the House of Representatives, there is a relationship: like Trump, Baudet denounces ambitious climate plans, advocates limiting migration and protects with the allegation 'fake news' if the press critically scrutinized. The evening at the embassy on September 10 seems like confirmation of a new transatlantic friendship on the right.
When inquired among American diplomats, many are surprised and some even shocked at the news that the American embassy was the venue for a Forum evening. Professor Alan Henrikson sees a possible conflict with the Vienna Convention that requires foreign envoys not to interfere in the internal politics of the host country. "Hoekstra actively uses his position to support a party," he says.

Marcel Brus, professor of public international law at the University of Groningen, also points out that the Netherlands and the US committed themselves to the articles of the Vienna Convention in 1961. It states that the buildings of the mission may not be used in a way that is incompatible with the functions of the mission as laid down in the treaty. "Those functions are broadly described, but according to Brus," organizing a party meeting by the embassy very unusual and at odds with these articles'. According to the professor, it would be a different story if a meeting was part of a series of meetings to get acquainted with the Dutch political landscape.

FvD is not the only party that has visited the embassy in recent years. Many politicians were invited to exchange ideas with Pete Hoekstra or met the ambassador elsewhere in the country. As far as De Groene could ascertain, two other parties had a meeting of the same size as Forum at the embassy: CDA and 50Plus, say spokespersons for these parties. These meetings had a different character. The CDA and a group of employees visited the embassy in 2018 as part of a 'College Tour', which the party organizes more often for employees. 50Plus was invited after Geert Dales had spoken positively about Trump on talk show Jinek at the beginning of last year. Not long after, a group of executives from all over the country paid a visit to the embassy to offer, among other things, a cheese (at the time Trump was threatening with hefty import tariffs).

In both cases, a party delegation visited Hoekstra, but no campaign films were shown and the parties had not taken along entrepreneurs in their wake who had already donated to the party or who could do so in the future. There was also no intervention of a fundraiser on behalf of the party.

"Suppose the embassy wants to learn about what is going on in a political party, suppose they want to know the ideas of that party. Then why do you invite the donors? "Says Gerrit Voerman, professor of Dutch politics at the University of Groningen, who was involved in the evaluation of the Political Parties Financing Act. "An important question seems to me: who invited these people and why these people?"
The embassy says in a response that there is nothing unique about the meeting and that the guest list has been established "in collaboration" with FvD. A tour of names on that list shows that Baudet himself was given ample space to fill the room. Several of our discussion partners, like Gijrath, received a call from Baudet to ask if they wanted to come.

The embassy did not publicize the meeting. Many of Hoekstra's meetings with Dutch politicians are followed by enthusiastic Twitter and Facebook messages. In this case, the ambassador tweeted that he had a conversation with senators Paul Cliteur and Paul Frentrop earlier on the afternoon of September 10, but he did not mention the well-attended party meeting afterwards. Forum initially keeps this meeting with Hoekstra to itself. A week later, on September 18, Baudet suddenly tweeted about "a good discussion at the US embassy."

De Groene has already been talking to attendees for a week. As the week goes on, an increasing number of guests are holding off the boat. One of them says he has "agreed with the party not to say anything about the evening because it could harm the party". Entrepreneur and FvD member Kees Eldering says that we should just call the party's spokesperson and disconnect. Roland Kahn, owner of clothing chains and donor of FvD, confirms to have been present, but does not want to say anything else. "As an entrepreneur I often visit embassies."

In response, the party said, "Forum for Democracy considers the United States, the Republican Party and the Ambassador to be important international allies. We maintain good relationships with them. "

The embassy has announced that it does not regard the evening as a "fundraiser", but as a so-called "town hall meeting". This term from American politics is used for public gatherings in which the organizer can answer questions from the public. Alan Henrikson emphasizes that openness is a hallmark of the town hall. "A private evening at the embassy is nothing like that." When asked, an entrepreneur says: "It was certainly not a town hall meeting, it was too decided for that. It was more of an informal kick-off to the election campaign. "

In the Netherlands, political parties must disclose donations received in excess of EUR 4,500. Professor Voerman emphasizes that "gifts in kind" such as "lending a room" or a drink are also part of this. According to the Ministry of the Interior, a campaign evening like this one may be organized according to Dutch rules, although it seems that this is no longer possible in the future. "The plan is to ban donations from outside the EU and the EEA. This ban is part of the bill to amend the Political Parties Funding Act, "a spokesman said.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2020 at 11:26pm

DJ-I will not translate the next Dutch article-the maps tell the story of how government stupidity did let Covid19 get out of control;

[url]https://www.nieuwnieuws.nl/5149556/schuifkaarten-najaarsgolf-staat-nederland-aan-de-lippen/[/url] or https://www.nieuwnieuws.nl/5149556/schuifkaarten-najaarsgolf-staat-nederland-aan-de-lippen/ 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2020 at 2:48am

DJ-We are making international headlines by creating the "Dutch Disaster";

[url]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8819649/Holland-Europes-covid-hotspot-refusing-face-mask-mask-rules-testing-failed.html[/url] or https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8819649/Holland-Europes-covid-hotspot-refusing-face-mask-mask-rules-testing-failed.html 

  • Per capita infection rate in Holland is among the top ten countries in the world 
  • Spike in cases has caught the country's testing system on its heels 
  • Today parliament debated whether to mandate masks in public places 
  • Prime Minister Mark Rutte has said a country requiring such a rule is 'childish'
  • Holland has become one of the world's coronavirushotspots after refusing to bring in face mask rules and its testing system dismally failed to meet demands.

    In the last month, a surge in new cases has catapulted the per capita infection rate into the top 10 in the world, with a weekly infection rate of around 160 per 100,000 people.

    On Wednesday, the Dutch parliament was debating an emergency law that would give government the power to make masks mandatory in public places if it chose to, as the daily rate of new infections reached a new record high of nearly 5,000. 


    Prime Minister Mark Rutte has repeatedly said he has no intention of forcing people to wear a mask - which the World Health Organization calls one of the key tools to stop the virus - while his top medical official has publicly repeated his assertion that their usefulness is unproven.

  • After the first wave of infections waned in May, the Netherlands worked to boost testing capacity, promising they would be available to all. 

    The strategy was to find hot-spots fast, and isolate people quickly to stop contagion.

    Laboratories said they had increased capacity by two-thirds to 51,000 tests per day.

    But last month, tests were again limited to people with serious health issues, and Rutte acknowledged capacity was far below demand.

  • 'We don't have our basic infrastructure in order', public health professor Jochen Mierau told Reuters.

    'There is a shortage of tests, while Germany has more than enough to even test people without symptoms.'

    The Netherlands' much bigger neighbour has also experienced a surge in infections, but has so far kept the weekly rise to around 20 per 100,000.

  • Face masks have been mandatory in German shops since the summer, whereas the Dutch government only decided only last week to advise their use in indoor public spaces.

    Despite a national poll in which two-thirds said their government should get tougher, Rutte, facing an election in March, responded to a question about masks on television on Tuesday by saying: 'Why would we need to force people? ... What kind of childish nation would that make us? We'll look at it if we have to, but I'd regret it.'

    He held out hope that the new guidance on masks and earlier closing hours for bars would prove their value.

    'The numbers don't look good,' he said, 'but we can't see the effects of the new measures until at least this weekend.' 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2020 at 8:14am

Quote Prime Minister Mark Rutte has said a country requiring such a rule is 'childish'

Yes, it is childish, people should be 'grown up' enough to care about how their actions affect others.  But if people in a country behave in a childish and selfish way then the government should respond.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2020 at 9:12am

No one 'wants' to grow up.  People only do it when forced to.  Just look at how many 'adults' still live with their parents.  Now, ever noticed how 'worldly-wise' the kids are in poor countries?

'Auntie' Ardern has nanny-stated New Zealand.  Look how wonderfully they are handling the pandemic.


Now, after all that,  do I really need to state the obvious?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2020 at 9:27am

"Our" NL government still claims masks do not work-but under pressure from mayors and being the only country making such claims it had to give in. "Our" PM (from a corrupt liberal conservative party financed by tax fraud and $hell) claimed the illness only was a risk for the old and vulnarable. 

(For Dutch readers on the state of NL [url]https://socialechristendemocratie.nl/2020/10/02/de-onbetrouwbare-overheid/[/url] a speech from MP Omtzigt)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2020 at 9:34am

In a country with a huge per-capita death rate, I don't so much symathise as empathise.  At least we now see our 'leaders' for the scum* they are.








*Scum always rises to the top.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2020 at 10:27am

[url]https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/10/why-us-elections-do-not-change-its-foreign-policies.html[/url] or https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/10/why-us-elections-do-not-change-its-foreign-policies.html not only foreign policies do not change...from the article: 

U.S. foreign policy does not change from presidency to presidency. In a recent interview President Bashar al-Assad of Syria explained why that is the case:

Question 9: You definitely follow the presidential campaign in the United States. And do you hope that the new US President, regardless of the name of the winner, will review sanctions policies towards Syria?

President Assad: We don’t usually expect presidents in the American elections, we only expect CEOs; because you have a board, this board is made of the lobbies and the big corporates like banks and armaments and oil, etc. So, what you have is a CEO, and this CEO doesn’t have the right or the authority to review; he has to implement. And that’s what happened to Trump when he became president after the elections –

Journalist: He used to be CEO for many years before.

President Assad: Exactly! And he is a CEO anyway. He wanted to follow or pursue his own policy, and he was about to pay the price – you remember the impeachment issue. He had to swallow every word he said before the elections. So, that’s why I said you don’t expect a president, you only expect a CEO. If you want to talk about changing the policy, you have one board – the same board will not change its policy. The CEO will change but the board is still the same, so don’t expect anything.

Question 10: Who are this board? Who are these people?

President Assad: As I said, this board is made up of the lobbies, so they implement whatever they want, and they control the Congress and the others, and the media, etc. So, there’s an alliance between those different self-vested interest corporations in the US.

Caitlin Johnstone would likely agree with that view. She argues that the two political camps in the U.S. hardly differ:

When you look at US politics, it appears as though there are two mainstream political factions that very strongly disagree with one another. “Divided” is a word that comes up a lot. “Polarized” is another.
...
But beneath all the hurled insults and heated debates, these two factions are actually furiously agreeing with one another. They’re agreeing the entire time.

They agree that the US government should remain the center of a globe-spanning empire; they just angrily quibble over a few of the details of how that empire should be run [..].
...
On all issues that most severely affect real people on mass scale, these two political factions are in emphatic agreement. They just pour a whole lot of sound and fury into the tiny one percent of the spectrum wherein they have some disagreement.

They do not allow for any mainstream discussion of if the oligarchic empire should continue to exist; all their issues, arguments and histrionics revolve around how it should exist.

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2020 at 1:00pm

DJ-Today NL did see over 7000 new cases, further increase in hospital, ICU etc. [url]https://coronadashboard.government.nl/[/url] or https://coronadashboard.government.nl/ (maybe they will put the newest info later on...this is last week report). 

[url]https://nltimes.nl/2020/10/13/rutte-partial-lockdown-mandatory-masks-soften-second-wave-covid[/url] or https://nltimes.nl/2020/10/13/rutte-partial-lockdown-mandatory-masks-soften-second-wave-covid 

In the press conference/briefing still not mandatory facemasks till the Covidlaw becomes law in november, spreading in schools, churches will continue... quarantine is still on a voluntary basis in NL-with 20% of people being tested positive still going out...

DJ-closing of restaurants, limits on the alcohol sale will not do the job. With exponential growth "exponential measures" are needed. The government keeps running behind the facts...

-At least two escaped/released infected minks were found in places in the south of NL...spreading in/via minks is not stopped

-[url]https://bnonews.com/index.php/2020/10/dutch-researchers-report-first-death-from-covid-19-reinfection/[/url] or https://bnonews.com/index.php/2020/10/dutch-researchers-report-first-death-from-covid-19-reinfection/ : The team had access to test samples from both infections and confirmed that the genetic makeup of each virus was different to a degree which cannot be explained through in-vivo evolution. This supports the finding that the woman was suffering from a reinfection with coronavirus.

DJ-At least four cases of reinfection are reported in NL (of 23 in all the world). With very limited testing the real number of reinfections may be much higher..

-The Dutch numbers-out of 100 tests almost 14 are now positive-WHO rule it should be less then 3-COVID is spreading "under the radar. Public support for any measures from this government is "very limited"-we are moving towards a major health-and with that-political crisis. 

-Like in many countries extreme right wing deny climate change, SARS-2 etc. they gain support-also from small bussiness feeling abandoned...

-An extra problem could be our population is not "that young"...

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2020 at 12:06pm

DJ-The healthcrisis in NL is unfolding. Ambulances can not bring emergencies to most nearby hospitals because of an overflow of Covid (tested and untested) patients. In The Hague they will build an emergency hospital, in Utrecht the army is activated to create extra ICU capacity...

In the mean time holiday airtravel is still going on, there are no fines for breaking quarantine-20% of the positive tested do not stay at home. There is no contact tracing, even people that test positive can not get instructions due to lack of staff...Some shops and universities (etc) make their own rules on facemasks...a lot of companies get commercial companies to do their own testing-positive results are not shared with the Dutch CDC...a lot of people stop using the contact-app because if there would be a contact with someone testing positive there is no possibility to get tested. 

Due to spendingcuts on staff during the summer there is no capacity even to test people with symptoms...even critical care is in danger-cancerpatients may no longer get treatment since hospitals are getting overcrowded with Covidpatients...

Some links; [url]https://coronadashboard.government.nl/[/url] or https://coronadashboard.government.nl/

[url]https://nltimes.nl/2020/10/14/7300-coronavirus-infections-225-wind-hospitals[/url] or https://nltimes.nl/2020/10/14/7300-coronavirus-infections-225-wind-hospitals

[url]https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/10/why-is-there-a-legal-issue-with-facemasks-and-quarantine-fines/[/url] or https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/10/why-is-there-a-legal-issue-with-facemasks-and-quarantine-fines/ 

DJ-Another problem is spreading the patients to use the maximum hospital capacity. During spring most cases were in a few regions-now cases explode all over the country. In spring Germany did offer ICU capacity-that capacity they now need themselves...(DJ-I would not be surprised if some Dutch patients tried to get to Germany to get treatment-there still is more capacity left there than in NL.) 

Public transport (Rotterdam-metro, in several parts of NL train-traffic-control) is running into problems because of people in quarantine or sick. In most of NL schools have a week vacation-schools were already close to breaking point-often sending children home because of outbreaks-switching to e-learning. 

In politics; right wing parties are close to claim "there is no virus", left wing parties (DJ correctly) claim the government failed in the way they did manage this outbreak. 

Police face an impossible job since rules contradict eachother...only will act in more severe/clear situations (partly due also to being understaffed to deal with this crisis). 

Dr. John Campbell [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDlNdit0hKA[/url] or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDlNdit0hKA made a video on the European situation. Already "old"due to lockdowns, curfews etc. in several (UK, France) countries. 

[url]https://twitter.com/jfkirkegaard/status/1316017419312218112/photo/1[/url] or https://twitter.com/jfkirkegaard/status/1316017419312218112/photo/1 

The R0 is supposed to be 1.3-but that number is already two weeks old...Some 20% of the population claim also "there is no virus" even visiting-with symptoms-family members in carecenters (spreading infection)-"freedom of expression"means nobody is stopping them...

DJ-We most likely are in a downward spiral. 14 out of 100 tests are positive-that is a lot. The impression is that 1 in 120 persons in NL may be spreading the virus...the only way to stop that would be a strict lockdown with curfews etc. Apparently things have to get even further out of control..

This will mean deaths will go up fast, triage at ICU, violence is already a problem in some hospitals (with families claiming a bed for an ill familymember or trying to stop transport to an other region). 

A next step may be panic...government overreaction (in a wrong way)..chaos. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2020 at 11:20pm

DJ 

[url]https://nltimes.nl/2020/10/20/covid-experts-shut-schools-second-wave[/url] or https://nltimes.nl/2020/10/20/covid-experts-shut-schools-second-wave :

A BNR analysis of RIVM figures showed that in the week of 5 to 11 October, about 8 percent of those who tested positive for the coronavirus were between the ages of 12 and 17. If 18-year-olds who tested positive are included, about a tenth of all positive cases in that week were of high school age. 


Even more worrying, according to the Red Team, is the percentage of positive tests in this age group. Over 10 percent of all high school kids tested for the coronavirus, tested positive. In primary education, 14 percent of tested pupils had the virus. So far 67 schools have had more than 10 coronavirus infections, Ginny Mooy of the Red Team said to BNR.

According to the Red Team, this shows that we have lost sight of the virus spread within this group. Children are also rarely tested. In order to really gain a good insight into the state of affairs regarding infections, the number of tests needs to be increased significantly, the Red Team said. 


"The Netherlands is one of the few countries in the world where children go to school without any restrictions. In class it is not mandatory to keep a distance of 1.5 meters and that doesn't happen at all, especially in primary education," Mooy said. At this level of spread, this form of education is irresponsible. "Because you don't know at the moment what is going on in those schools and how many infections there are, we say it is better to close the schools for two weeks. At least then it goes down and you can open safely afterwards."

According to the Red Team, little is known so far about the long-term consequences of Covid-19, but there are more and more indications that these do exist. A child can also infect their parents or grandparents. Mooy added that it is not often considered that many primary school kids go to their grandparents for after-school care. The Red Team therefore advises closing all schools immediately.

At this stage, there is little political support for this advice. Very few parliamentarians are in favor of closing schools again. And on Monday, Minister Arie Slob for Primary and Secondary Education said that there is no need for further measures in education at this stage. On the government's 'road map' for coronavirus measures, closing schools is on the extreme side of level 4. 

The Outbreak Management Team is also against closing schools, calling this too detrimental for children's education and health. Karoly Illy, the pediatrician on the OMT, told BNR that the importance of keeping schools open currently outweighs the unrest. "We certainly have to take measures and we can still think about other creative solutions, but this is too important for children." 

DJ-[url]https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/10/police-to-step-up-coronavirus-rule-enforcement-soft-drug-use-outside-can-lead-to-fines/[/url] or https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/10/police-to-step-up-coronavirus-rule-enforcement-soft-drug-use-outside-can-lead-to-fines/ one problem, there is no staff left to enforce strict rules...

[url]https://coronadashboard.government.nl/[/url] or https://coronadashboard.government.nl/ R0=1,22 14%+ of tests are positive...should be under 3% ECDC or 5% WHO...with also a lot of private-employer paid-testing not going to the RIVM/Dutch CDC and a lot of people not using apps/testing for economic reasons we are moving towards the Dutch Disaster..

GP's are reporting more staff/doctors unable to work bringing even basic healthcare in danger. With over 20% of positive tested still ignoring the "advice" to stay at home the pandemic is "out of control". 

Children, mild cases do not get tested here, there is no contact tracing...with over 8000 cases per day-maybe slowing down due to school autumn break-10x8000=80.000 cases, our healthcare may be close to breaking point end of this month...

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2020 at 12:53am

DJ-Proberbly describing the NL problem; [url]https://nltimes.nl/2020/10/22/another-8-regions-moved-highest-covid-risk-level-situation-serious-16-regions[/url] or https://nltimes.nl/2020/10/22/another-8-regions-moved-highest-covid-risk-level-situation-serious-16-regionsAnother eight regions in the Netherlands now have so many coronavirus infections that they were moved to the fourth and highest risk level on the government's road map on how to respond to this epidemic. A total of 16 regions are now at this "very serious" level, according to the coronavirus dashboard. 

and: At this stage the increased risk level has no consequences for the security regions. The government's nationwide partial lockdown is in effect for at least another three weeks. If these measures reduce the number of Covid-19 infections sufficiently, the government will switch to a regional approach.

DJ on the risk levels ; [url]https://coronadashboard.government.nl/over-risiconiveaus[/url] or https://coronadashboard.government.nl/over-risiconiveaus ;

  1. Serious. Severe measures are needed to prevent further escalation and return to a manageable situation. The number of new infections is increasing rapidly. An intensive tailored approach is needed to protect vulnerable groups. Contact tracing is no longer effective, making it more difficult to keep track of how the virus is spreading. Measures are not being sufficiently complied with. There is insufficient healthcare capacity. Measures to be taken are designed to prevent regional healthcare from becoming overburdened and to be able to track the spread of the virus again.
  2. Very serious. More severe national measures are needed to prevent further escalation and return to a manageable situation. A very large number of people are infectious and the number of new infections is high. Contact tracing is no longer effective, meaning there is limited insight into how the virus is spreading. Measures are not being sufficiently complied with. Regional healthcare capacity is insufficient and some kinds of regular healthcare have already been scaled down. Measures to be taken are designed to prevent national and regional healthcare from becoming overburdened and to regain maximum control of the virus.

(1 and 2 is 3 and 4-somehow I can not change this)

DJ-The way I see it both a lot of experts and politicians do not take the present situation serious enough. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ab_Osterhaus[/url] or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ab_Osterhaus is asking for a four week total lockdown. Another team of experts-the Red Team-wants schools to be closed (for at least two weeks). They are ignored by the government..

[url]https://www.containmentnu.nl/en/home[/url] or https://www.containmentnu.nl/en/home is an international group calling for more stringent action to contain this pandemic. 

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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