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Obama Ratings at an all time low

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Medclinician2013 View Drop Down
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    Posted: October 24 2013 at 9:41am
There have been reports that President Obama has now dropped into the 30s in terms of the his rating with the American people. I did find one sources which has him at 30% approval and 64% disapproval. The listing disappear from CNN network news. How ever there are links which clearly show he has tumbled- and these are current.

http://misguidedchildren.com/politics/2013/10/obama-approval-at-all-time-low

This link has been redirected. This is not the original link and the content has been altered.


In a new development, and what seems to be a trend, Obama approval ratings have slipped dramatically. This time, to an all time low of 37%, while his disapproval rating is at an all time high of 53%

Nothing is really coming out of the White House that is especially promising or concrete. The recent fiasco at the website and poor organization may stop Obamacare without a vote. It simply may not be possible to implement health care to 60,000,000 people which would overload the medical facilities in a matter of weeks.

Foreign policy in Syria is a disaster in the last few days with all out war, bombings, and absolutely no action by America to even do anything but supply arms to the terrorist Al Queda rebels.

Israeli war planes are at war in Syria.

http://beforeitsnews.com/global-unrest/2013/10/report-israeli-warplanes-bomb-shipment-of-advanced-missiles-in-syria-heading-to-hezbollah-2456884.html

This is reaching a point of "while Nero fiddled Rome burned."

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/fiddle+while+Rome+burns


What do these popularity numbers mean?

Well Congress, at a 16% approval rating in some polls, has lost the faith of the American people.  The recent government shutdown has 60% having no confidence that the economy will improve in the next year.
 
"This is a crying shame" statements by Obama are not in any way productive with no solution to the problem. There is no real plan to help the jobless and reopening the government has simply kicked the can down the road or a month or so. 

The budget fight, which I was watching live feed in Congress is not going well at all.

So back to the theme here:

Other presidents who were even impeach had better ratings that Obama near the end.

Nixon's surge in approval evaporated almost as quickly as it appeared. The relentless uncovering of damaging information about the Watergate scandal through the spring and summer of 1973 led to a steady deterioration in public approval of Nixon month by month. By May, Nixon's rating had dropped to 44%, and by August, it was at 31% -- representing a 36% drop in about six months. (A year later, in August 1974 when he resigned from office, Nixon's rating was 24%)

Ronald Reagan was the second president in recent history to see his public image damaged by a scandal, but the impact of the Iran-Contra revelations was both more immediate and ultimately less severe than was Watergate for Nixon. The facts surrounding Iran-Contra became public in November 1986. Reagan's job approval fell from 63% in October 1986 to 47% in December, and ultimately to 43% by March 1987 - representing a 20% point decline in about five months.

Conclusion: Once the ratings are in the 30s there is a serious problem with the faith of the American people. Blows to come- a possible second shutdown of the government, the failure of Obamacare, and a bad Christmas season could lead to a disaster.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turboguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2013 at 12:33am
0bamacare is an utter disaster, all the scams and corruption are finally coming to the forefront, and the media, which has been 100% in his corner for the last seven years, have finally started actually asking difficult questions.

When even the official mouthpiece of the 0bama Administration, MSNBC, has called them out and out liars.

Zer0 is a catastrophe. Calling his greatest accomplishment a disaster is being nice. His foreign policy is easily the worst of all Presidents and that includes G.W., because at least we knew what we were dealing with, and love him or hate him, he treated the bad guys bad. It's time for Zer0 to go so he can't do any further damage to the country.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley
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That's hilarious

Does it make you feel like a big man to belittle the president. I haven't been reading here long but wow turbo-whatever you are one of the most offensive people online I have ever seen. Do you walk around calling people idiots, dumbass, and zero in your everyday life

You need to consider anger management classes before you go off for real

Everyone needs help from time to time
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The latest ZerO has to deal with is Europe waking up to all of the clandestine surveillance. Germany sending ambassador level diplomats to discuss why the US is monitoring Merkel's cell phone. Hey - - guess what's 60 Minutes this week? A report on Benghazi ! ! ! Could it be that the press is getting fed up too? Stay tuned - - I'm sure there will be more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turboguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2013 at 11:29pm
Originally posted by Laughing guest Laughing guest wrote:

That's hilarious

Does it make you feel like a big man to belittle the president. I haven't been reading here long but wow turbo-whatever you are one of the most offensive people online I have ever seen. Do you walk around calling people idiots, dumbass, and zero in your everyday life

You need to consider anger management classes before you go off for real

Everyone needs help from time to time


And you should be the first in line for the mental illness called Liberalism.

Oh, so now I'm supposed to pity the worthless piece of drek and feel bad for saying that literally the greatest catastrophe to ever befall the United States has a name: 0bama? Are you serious? I can only imagine the garbage that came from you when G.W. was in office.

Zer0 is a bad president. Why can't you just go ahead and admit it?

And you're not sneaky. I can see your IP. You should honestly stick to a single username.

Do I call people idiots, dumbasses, and Zer0 in reality? You betcha. If they're being idiots, dumbasses, and their net worth to society is Zer0, I'll call them Zer0. And you know what, if I ever met you, I'd tell you that you too are are an idiot and a dumbass if you actually believe that this catastrophe of a president or any of his disastrous policies or edicts are anything but bad for this country. 

Am I angry that a community organizer who had zero prior experience in politics and leadership was elected for little more than his skills at reading a teleprompter? You bet I am. Am I mad that in as little as five years of presidency this coward's biggest accomplishment is running up more debt than all the rest of the presidents combined? Yup. Am I mad that the guy that screamed transparency has thus far been the least transparent and the most corrupt? And that includes in comparison to Bush and Clinton which is a true achievement? Yup.

And finally, am I mad that this girlieman has done more damage to the country I've fought and bled for than any of our enemies could have up to and including by setting off a hydrogen bomb on a major metropolitan area? You God damned right I'm mad.

But that doesn't make me and my points that he's a catastrophe any less wrong, and anything you stand for any more right.

And let your butthurt flow over the fact that even your most precious liberal media has all but turned on him. Zer0 is so bad of a president that they're not even trying to defend him anymore.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician2013 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2013 at 11:39am
Originally posted by Sea wolfe Sea wolfe wrote:

The latest ZerO has to deal with is Europe waking up to all of the clandestine surveillance. Germany sending ambassador level diplomats to discuss why the US is monitoring Merkel's cell phone. Hey - - guess what's 60 Minutes this week? A report on Benghazi ! ! ! Could it be that the press is getting fed up too? Stay tuned - - I'm sure there will be more.


There is a misconception that posting events and realities is an emotional thing intended to belittle anyone.  It is non-partisan and simple that massive damage was done more to the American people and our allies than the actual terrorists stopped. The revelation of facts show what three other members of intelligence tried to do through "the proper channels" could only be done by a rogue subcontractor giving the data to the media.  No data has been given or ever will be given to the Russians. Snowden gave all of his documents to the media and therefore has nothing to give the Russians or anyone else.

By one source this event i.e. Snowden whistle blowing,  has been labeled the most serious security breach in American Intelligence history.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/snowden-s-leaks-most-serious-in-us-history/article1-1140967.aspx

Despite statements of the necessity of the entire intelligence project, as it evolved, it reached hugely invasive and monitored the majority of phone conversations and email on the Internet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_surveillance

Is it possible the the president did not know about what was going on until this week?

We now know that President Obama's assurances that the NSA wasn't "actually abusing" its surveillance programs are untrue. A leaked audit shows the NSA violated its own privacy rules, and in some cases the law, thousands of times over a one-year period.

A lot of people are assuming this means the president was lying — that he's known about the scale of the NSA's privacy problems all along and was trying to mislead the public. But there's another possibility that could be even more troubling: He might not have known about the extent of the NSA's privacy problems until this week.

It's not as far-fetched as it sounds. We know that Diane Feinstein (D-Calif.), the chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, only learned about the NSA privacy audit when The Washington Post asked her staff about it. And the chief judge of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court has admitted that the court has limited ability to police NSA misconduct.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/08/16/did-president-obama-know-about-the-nsas-privacy-problems/

Comment : Multiple issues including the constitutional rights of the violation of illegal search and seizure which is what it boils down to without the permission or knowledge of those being  monitoring. Even the executive branch itself may not have known the extent of snooping going on. The program continues without a real budget limit and without revealing its operations to U.S. Senators, Congressman, and governors. It's pressed on to continue the operation to "what could be done" versus "what should be done" to restructure  data collection from  innocent citizens and foreign allies.

The Polls are terribly flawed and as the media, sometimes does samples of a few hundred people from hand picked areas.  Also they count the voters only, which is to say, Americans who don't vote don't count.

In some of the last polls which were posted from other sources, approval ratings are reported in the high 30s percentile.

Conclusion: This is bad.  There appears there can  be no announcement possible from the administration at this point, which is going to improve no only the President's approval rates, much less Congress and Senators.  Our Congregational  leaders now have an appalling lack of faith and a rating of 16% of Americans from an independent survey done by PBS.

Only 16 percent of those surveyed approved of the job Congress is doing, tying an all-time low in this poll's 17-year history; 75 percent disapproved.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec06/congress_10-19.html

Medclinician
 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2013 at 9:50pm
NEWS FLASH!  They've been monitoring our phone calls for the past 30 years!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician2013 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2013 at 9:26am
Originally posted by Elver Elver wrote:

NEWS FLASH!  They've been monitoring our phone calls for the past 30 years!


This post made me aware that I should start a new thread showing the difference between monitoring phone calls and a massive facility to store information while pulling data off main data flow trunk lines and integrating them into a new database.

The essence of this is that "probable cause" is the justification for legal search and seizure. Now that cyber data exceeds physical records and it  can be collected, stored (seized), without probable cause or reasonable accountable reasons why an innocent civilian is targeted and loses their right to privacy.

Accountability- "the right hand knowing what the left hand is doing" - has been seriously breached in not sharing information with the Executive, Congressional, and Judiciary branches to the extent they have no idea what has been  going on in some cases for a decade. 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician2013 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2013 at 7:44am
It is sad really and difficult for Americans as we enter the holiday season.  Perhaps there are not a lot of comments because we  live in an era where all the promises have not been fulfilled and we are no longer the superstars of Europe and Latin American. Once as I traveled to Mexico and Europe we were still  with the "rico Americanos" fueled the tourist industries and were admired, though sometimes hated, for our successful democracy and economy.

The brighter side is that nothing is as sure as change and now that facts are coming out and we live in a time where 80% of Americans at least are more politically informed than the generations before them.

The story continues as the ratings continue to drop.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/01/opinion/obeidallah-obamas-next-act/index.html?hpt=hp_t4

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So a law designed to cover the uninsured is now throwing far more people off their insurance than it can possibly be signing up on the  http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/health_care/medicare-chief-tavenner-faces-lawmakers-questions-over-botched-health-overhaul-rollout/2013/10/29/715117ba-4069-11e3-b028-de922d7a3f47_story. - nonfunctioning insurance exchanges. Indeed,  http://www.washingtonpost.comational/health-science/irs-offers-hint-at-how-many-americans-have-been-able-to-use-healthcaregov-successfully/2013/10/26/a0b93f4e-3e54-11e3-a94f-b58017bfee6c_story. - most of the 19 million people with individual insurance will have to find new and likely more expensive coverage. And that doesn’t even include the additional millions who are sure to lose their employer-provided coverage. That’s a lot of people. That’s a pretty big lie.
But perhaps Obama didn’t know. Maybe the bystander president was as surprised by this as he claims to have been by the  http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/wp/2013/07/17/irs-chief-counsel-involved-in-targeting-controversy/ - IRS scandal, the Associated Press and James Rosen phone logs, the failure of the Obamacare Web site, the premeditation of the Benghazi attacks, the http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/american-allies-knew-about-spying-but-not-sheer-amount-lets-be-honest-we-eavesdrop-too/2013/10/23/0e2d91ee-3bdd-11e3-b0e7-716179a2c2c7_story. - tapping of Angela Merkel’s phone — i.e., the workings of the federal government of which he is the nominal head.
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friends in high places

Top Obama Donor Gets Paid To Fix Obamacare Website After Blowing It Up

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-02/top-obama-donor-gets-paid-fix-obamacare-website-after-blowing-it

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There is no reason to apologize for being angry at a president who lied millions of Americans into following him and his policies which are the worst things to have happened to America for a long long time.

While belittling him feels good he will be gone soon and his partners in crime will pick up with a new leader. The American people must not be allowed to forget that there were hundreds of Democrats and a bunch of republicans who cooperated with these catastrophes. Every chance we get we must be placing the blame for these at the feet of establishment politicians as the shoes fit.
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I agree his policies have made the recovery worse

Federal employment has dropped to below when he took office so he is making the recession worse.   http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/CES9091000001 - http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/CES9091000001

He has kept the military headcount steady at 2,300,000
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/B4280C0A173NBEA - http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/B4280C0A173NBEA

Infrastructure spending has dropped even as the slow recovery drags on. 
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/A957RX1Q020SBEA - http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/A957RX1Q020SBEA 

The government has been a headwind to this recovery ever since the Republicans took control of the house of representative.  No new spending has been approved.  we are still operating on a continuing resolution on spending that was  approved in 2010 with only cuts agreed to after.   Putting more people out of work and less hiring, will not solve the employment problem.  Less investing in science, education, and infrastructure spending will not make the US more competitive.   The President should quit worrying about the deficit and start worrying about the long run harm 14 million under employed people is having on the economy.  Maybe we need to stop giving people food stamps and instead have government and church run soup kitchens.  If people saw 47 million people in food lines, they would see the extent of the problem have a little more compassion.   
I'm in the top 20% for wealth and income, but if we don't provide opportunity and hope for the poor in this country,  the 20% puts our own economic status at risk.  I don't want to see desperate people that have nothing to lose outside my door. And I would think people on a flu epidemic website would understand that rational.    

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http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2013/11/05/obamas-approval-rating-plummets-into-the-30s-n1738251

While revelations concerning Affordable Heath Care (Obamacare) are not going to let many people keep their health care plan and in many cases the new one will cost more, the numbers continue to plummet.

According to the latest from Gallup, President Obama's approval rating has plummeted into the 30s as millions of people continue to lose their health insurance.

Last week, an NBC/WSJ poll showed Obama's personal favorability and overall job approval were starting to take a nose dive, dropping eight points from the month before. It is also important to note this hit came before a barrage of insurance cancellation letters hit mailboxes.

Obama drops to new nadirs within this polling series on both overall job approval (42/51) and personal favorability (41/45, down from 47/41 in early October).

As the White House continues to deny lying about millions losing their health insurance after President Obama repeatedly promised for years that plans could be kept, we can expect this rapid downward trend to continue.

Comment: The 30s (currently at 39%) is a dangerous area and the entire credibility of the current administration as well as the Senate and Congress's ability to pass any useful legislation to stop upcoming disasters in social security, health care, foreign policy disaster in Syria, as well as a break from the United Nations, looks pretty gloomy for the coming holiday season and January 1, 2014.

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I have the traditional BlueCross/BlueShield insurance


no rate increases this year

no increase in deductibles


benefits were actually expanded some

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Updating the rather abysmal situation. The Democrats are now working with Republicans to try and create a bill to allow Americans to keep their health care plans and allow some to also pick plans which are not currently "approved" and are below the standards required in the Obamacare legislation. At the same time the approval rating although 39% by this poll are likely to be lower with a wider sampling and more diverse group sampled.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/11/12/poll-obama-approval-ratings-drop-americans-say-hes-not-trustworthy/?hpt=hp_t1

Nothing is quite as sure as change.

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/mamasandthepapas/lookthroughmywindow.html


If nothing else, driven by votes, Congress and the Senate may face some real upsets if they do not get it together and at least try the fix the Obamacare disaster.  There should be a vote by this Friday.

Washington (CNN) -- Congressional Democrats are upping the pressure on President Barack Obama to fix what's ailing his signature health care initiative with some in the party warning they may be forced to back a House Republican proposal if the White House doesn't offer an alternative by week's end.

"We've got to get out of the bunker and fix these problems," a senior congressional Democratic source told CNN's Chief Congressional Correspondent Dana Bash of flaws in the newly rolled out law that have energized Republican efforts to weaken the President and his allies and derail a policy they have long considered unworkable.

The White House has until Friday to devise a solution to the problem-plagued roll out of the Affordable Care Act, the source said.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/12/politics/obamacare/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turboguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2013 at 8:24am
This ACA failure really is epic (overused word these days, I know) in the delivery of a comeuppance.

And the noose is tightening for Obama (Pardon any inadvertent lynching imagery, Chris Matthews & co.)

There is no getting out of this. And the news about the law gets worse and worse. Suggesting that it's just the website problem is pure denial.

Its becoming painfully evident that the subsidies scheme requires millions of the already insured to be dumped into the exchanges. And once they learn that the new insurance being forced on them is more expensive in order to cover those who cannot afford to pay (or for those who lie about their finances in order to fraudulently receive benefits), the middle class is going to be increasing incensed!

Millions of seniors are losing their Medicare Advantage. Because MA is administered by insurance companies with federal backing, the insurance companies can cancel these policies.

Then the individual market plans are being cancelled daily. Then you see these reports of a million people in California alone, losing their insurance.

Employer based plans will be hit next. And those who don't see those plans cancelled are going to see them taxed at a very high rate.

And unlike past Obama scandals, where you had to go to the National Review or the WSJ to read about it, this news is being reported on CNN, MSNBC, etc. No cover for Obama there.

Every single escape hatch that Obama used with other scandals is locked tight here. No escape!

Can't blame "low level employees" like they did with the IRS scandal.

Can't blame a video or a protest like they did with Benghazi.

Can't blame the chaos of a civil war either.

Can't deny knowledge of it, like they did with Fast & Furious.

Can't claim it's really working (like they do with the economy) because the news is so bad.

Can't blame the GOP, like they do with the lousy economy. Not one republican voted for it.

Can't blame Halliburton, the Koch brothers, the Tea Party, Bush, Cheney unnamed right-wing extremists or Wall Street.

The one thing that you can count on Obama doing a lot more of - with little promise of results - is to more vigorously attack the insurance industry.

But the damage is so deep - and not only to his personal credibility, but to the whole notion that government can fix things and provide for people.

Thank you Jesus! This is the crash and burn of Obama AND liberalism! Awesome!
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mahshadin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2013 at 7:02am
Man Alive
 
 
That is the biggest pile of BullShip I have ever heard (Shame OnYou TG)
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."   G Orwell
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Bs yes but true
WHAT TO DO????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician2013 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2013 at 10:42am
Obama's legacy is on the line.

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/politics/2013/11/15/exp-lead-politics-panel-obamacare-confidence-crisis.cnn.html

The Upton Bill was passed by Congress, but it is a doomed piece of legislation. It will not pass the Senate and President Obama stately flatly he would veto it.  It is significant because some spooked Democrats in the house  are crossing party lines, and a significant number voted yes on the bill.

That legislation, sponsored by U.S. Rep. Fred Upton, a St. Joseph Republican, and passed 261-157 with 12 members not voting, has little chance of moving forward, with Obama threatening a veto and the Democratic-led Senate opposed.

But what may be more significant is that 39 House Democrats supported it, including U.S. Rep. Gary Peters of Bloomfield Township. That suggests even members of the president’s own party believe he must do more to satisfy Americans who feel misled by assurances that they could keep their insurance under the ACA if they wished.

http://www.freep.com/article/20131115/NEWS06/311150103/Congressman-Upton-s-health-insurance-bill-passed-by-House-doomed-fail

Yet in one article name  "Obamacare - now what?" echoes a sentiment which seems to be growing. It is unavoidable. The concerns for veterans are no longer a concern.  The fact that even the Upton legislation would drive up premiums which are going to ruin millions of people, is not being addressed anymore.

Conclusion: The one step too far, which infuriated millions, was a bold faced untruth which was recorded hundreds of times this was stated on camera and then changed overnight. The ACA was not read by the majority of legislators who signed the bill. Few even knew what was in it. For those of us who did read it, and it was available online- if implemented it could bury the chances of good medical care for a great number of poor or elderly Americans.

We kick the can once more and push the fight into the future.  With flu season rapidly moving across the U.S. this is the worst time ever- to be battling over health care.

Medclinician



 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turboguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2013 at 4:02pm
Originally posted by Mahshadin Mahshadin wrote:

Man Alive
 
 
That is the biggest pile of BullShip I have ever heard (Shame OnYou TG)




Truth hurts huh? It's cool.

Your way has failed. Liberalism itself is the very definition of failure and it's on display for all to see.

Zer0 is hands down the worst disaster to ever befall our country and the proof is hitting all of us, even you, right in the pocketbook.

Bush lied and people died. 0bama lied and we all had to pay three times as much for health insurance, and people died, we suspended the Constitutional balance of Power and our President was openly mocked on the international stage because he is such an inept fool.

I'm still waiting for you to admit that 0bama is a complete and utter failure. Even other Democrats are jumping ship because they see the writing on the wall. Zer0 is radioactive.
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Not BS - - Truth.  Wonder what Zero will do next to hurt people?
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So here we are trying to plan how to deal with something that could be greater than the 1918/19 epidemics and how is Obama helping - - push and backing a law that cancels health care insurance for five million people (and counting).  When the SHTF and  those people who lost coverage and are being turned away from health care, it will be to late.  The AHC debacle must be cleaned up NOW - - the counts for MERS and H7N9 will not take a time out for  Obama to get his act together.
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Oh Jeez. I was going to stay out of this, because A - we have two viruses with pandemic potential that concern me more (four if you count the reemergence of H5N1 in Cambodia, and H6N1 showing up in humans for the first time in Taiwan), and B - I got seriously bored with the pointless back and forth on here over the ACA.

Pointless? Absolutely. Let's get real - while I vehemently defend everyone's right to voice an opinion, and hope that they feel comfortable in doing so here on AFT, the truth is that while we're endlessly debating the pros and cons of Obamacare - or "assailing" and "squealing" as any deviation from the world according to TG is now characterized - we're not doing so as lawmakers, but as a bunch of preppers on an internet forum. Little, itty-bitty voices in the immensity of cyberspace making no difference whatsoever in the real world. We can bleat all we like, but unless you have a superiority complex that causes you to vastly overestimate your influence within government circles, you surely have to know that all the time you invest/waste on this argument goes nowhere because there isn't anyone that can make a difference listening. Just us.

Yes, the ACA roll out has been horrible. Yes, the ball was dropped quite a few times. Yes, I wish the administration had done a better job beforehand, instead of relying on damage control after the fact. And yep, an eighth grade computer class could have built a better website, and multiple backsides need to be kicked over that one. But is the ACA now dead in the water and doomed to failure after six weeks? You wish. Despite every attempt to derail it, it's still the law and at this point everyone needs to put their big boy pants on and suck it up. The GOP made no meaningful contributions other than to try to kill it over and over again, and now their attitude seems to be "you didn't do it right - while we sat on our hands and tried to trip you". Well, what a surprise. And yes, I do lay some serious blame at the feet of the misinformation machine, of which Faux News, the Tea party/GOP, and the Koch boys are a major part, for muddying the water unnecessarily. Dubya does get a pass on that one though, but not Dick Cheney - but that's just because I don't particularly like him Wink

Lest we forget, back in September 2009 a Harvard Medical School study found that a lack of coverage "...can be tied to about 45,000 deaths a year in the United States". If that's accurate, it's more than 5 men, women and children dying needlessly every hour because they didn't have access to healthcare. Please, someone explain to me how that is acceptable in modern day America, and more importantly, why would people feel so justified in fighting to keep in place a system that so unfairly penalized the most disadvantaged members of their own society, including children?

Med - you talked about "the fact that even the Upton legislation would drive up premiums which are going to ruin millions of people", but medical bills are already the leading cause of bankruptcy in the US, resulting in a whopping 60% of all filings. How much worse are you expecting it to get? And with regards to the "death panels" you mentioned in another thread, everyone seems to have conveniently forgotten that we've already been living in their shadow for years in the form of insurance plan administrators. One of the reasons that the US healthcare system had such bloated non-medical costs was because it was so top heavy with bureaucrats who's only function was to sniff out a reason to deny or restrict care.

Seawolfe - as depressing as it is to contemplate, in truth there is no healthcare system anywhere in the world that would be effective in a major pandemic approximating 1918, or worse. For years, experts have been saying the US system was woefully unprepared. The first twenty serious cases showing up at each hospital would already be too much for the respirators and ICU beds on hand, let alone the next thousand. Or ten thousand. Any way you slice it, we'd be on our own. Prep on, buddy.

"0bama lied and we all had to pay three times as much for health insurance, and people died". Say what? TG - if somebody else had offered up anything quite that outlandish as fact, you'd have been up their you-know-what so fast and so hard that you'd be tickling the back of their throat with your nose hair. Really, dude? And don't put too much stock in a few Dems voting with Upton, as many of them have closely contested elections approaching in their own constituencies, making it a politically expedient move. Or it's a mass exodus. Whatever helps you sleep at night.




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Originally posted by jacksdad jacksdad wrote:

Oh Jeez. I was going to stay out of this, because A - we have two viruses with pandemic potential that concern me more (four if you count the reemergence of H5N1 in Cambodia, and H6N1 showing up in humans for the first time in Taiwan), and B - I got seriously bored with the pointless back and forth on here over the ACA.
 
This is the General Discussion. If you want to talk about flu, there's a forum for that.
Originally posted by Jacksdad Jacksdad wrote:

Yes, the ACA roll out has been horrible. Yes, the ball was dropped quite a few times. Yes, I wish the administration had done a better job beforehand, instead of relying on damage control after the fact. And yep, an eighth grade computer class could have built a better website, and multiple backsides need to be kicked over that one. But is the ACA now dead in the water and doomed to failure after six weeks? You wish. Despite every attempt to derail it, it's still the law and at this point everyone needs to put their big boy pants on and suck it up. The GOP made no meaningful contributions other than to try to kill it over and over again, and now their attitude seems to be "you didn't do it right - while we sat on our hands and tried to trip you". Well, what a surprise. And yes, I do lay some serious blame at the feet of the misinformation machine, of which Faux News, the Tea party/GOP, and the Koch boys are a major part, for muddying the water unnecessarily. Dubya does get a pass on that one though, but not Dick Cheney - but that's just because I don't particularly like him Wink
 
So let me get this crystal clear straight: Obama lied time and again about the 0bamacare rollout, how we'd all be able to keep our insurance, and basically every single liberal pipedream possible was fit into one bill that we absolutely had to pass to find out exactly what was in it, and the Republicans should have done something about it? I hate to be the realist here, but the Democrats had a unfilibusterable majority and were foaming at the mouth to use it to do as much damage as possible to our country.
 
Even if the Republicans had wanted to make any positive change to the bill, they would have been ignored. So a bill that was dreamt up by Socialist/Communist Democrats, was filled with Socialist/COmmunist ideas by Democrats, and passed by only Socialist/Communist Democrats and the fact that Socialist/Communist ideas don't work, and never have worked is the Republican's fault.
 
Got it.
Originally posted by Jacksdad Jacksdad wrote:


Lest we forget, back in September 2009 a Harvard Medical School study found that a lack of coverage "...can be tied to about 45,000 deaths a year in the United States". If that's accurate, it's more than 5 men, women and children dying needlessly every hour because they didn't have access to healthcare. Please, someone explain to me how that is acceptable in modern day America, and more importantly, why would people feel so justified in fighting to keep in place a system that so unfairly penalized the most disadvantaged members of their own society, including children?
 
Oh F-ing PRICELESS! So instead of insuring everyone, we're going to insure those who produce nothing. Absolutely nothing while we kick those who *DO* produce off, and make insurance unaffordable for them? Good thinking. Penalize those who are dragging the cart instead of those who are riding. Way to make the system economically viable. Good thinking. LOL
 
Whether you'd like to admit it or not, you can have nothing, be absolutely penniless, and go to the hospital and get care. Right now. Seriously, try it. You don't have to pay the bill. They're required to give you care. You can sling as many red herrings as you want.
 
Originally posted by Jacksdad Jacksdad wrote:


One of the reasons that the US healthcare system had such bloated non-medical costs was because it was so top heavy with bureaucrats who's only function was to sniff out a reason to deny or restrict care.
 
So we should go ahead and put political bureaucrats into the systems too?
 
Originally posted by Jacksdad Jacksdad wrote:


"0bama lied and we all had to pay three times as much for health insurance, and people died". Say what? TG - if somebody else had offered up anything quite that outlandish as fact, you'd have been up their you-know-what so fast and so hard that you'd be tickling the back of their throat with your nose hair. Really, dude? And don't put too much stock in a few Dems voting with Upton, as many of them have closely contested elections approaching in their own constituencies, making it a politically expedient move. Or it's a mass exodus. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
 
No, I spoke true.
 
Many, if not most people who are being kicked off their insurance plans *MUST* pay upwards of two to three times what they were previously paying just for the system to remain solvent. That's math.
 
How many people had to die for Zer0's political disasters? Fast and Furious? The man has teh blood of literally thousands on his hands and he was caught red handed trying to pull off a false flag operation! Benghazi? How many people diedin that deal? Why aren't they allowed to testify in front of Congress?
 
Yep, it's a politically expedient move alright. If the Liberals hadn't decided to go full unlubed buttsex on the American people, the politically expedient move would be to vote in lockstep with everything Zer0 does. The man is absolutely radioactive.
 
And just you wait until the Employer Mandate kicks in. What we're seeing now is the *GOOD* parts of the Zer0care law. The "Good" parts have literally sunk this entire administration. When people who get their insurance through their employers, AKA the dreaded "Majority," start losing theirs or have to pay an extra $5000 or more a year, you won't be able to get enough money out of Soros and Bloomturd to get Dems elected for twenty years!
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley
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WOW
 
That is some Radical BS
Next you'll be pitching us fake insurance
 
You are so polarized in your own little box its not even worth commenting anymore
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."   G Orwell
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Thanks Turboguy. Count Me In
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http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/bestoftv/2013/11/19/pmt-ann-romney-obama-losing-election.cnn.html


"but the basic credibility is in jeopardy."

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/bestoftv/2013/11/16/exp-whitfield-obama-second-term.cnn.html


"loss of trust."

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/11/19/woman-cited-by-president-as-obamacare-success-story-frustrated-by-sign-up-process/?hpt=hp_t2

While she went on the news almost in tears and with the belief she would receive better health care as she struggled with a son with ADHD her premium has more than doubled from the original figure.

The result was a higher quote, which Sanford said was for $390 per month for a "silver" plan with a higher deductible. Still too expensive

A cheaper "bronze" plan, Sanford said, came in at $324 per month, but also with a high deductible - also not in her budget.

Then another letter from the state exchange with even worse news.

"Your household has been determined eligible for a Federal Tax Credit of $0.00 to help cover the cost of your monthly health insurance premium payments," the latest letter said.

"I had a good cry," Sanford said about her reaction to the latest news from the state.

As a self-employed court reporter, the new quote was simply out of her range.

"This is it. I'm not getting insurance," Sanford told CNN. "That's where it stands right now unless they fix it."

Comment: The next presidential election will be November 8, 2016. That is approximately 1 year and 10 months more of the current administration.  This is a long enough period where if the country does not get on the right path, as of January 1, 2014, our economy's unresolved issues will "hit the fan."

Probable saviors for Obama are some fairly unlikely scenarios:

1) Obamacare, which at the very core is dysfunctional is going to somehow magically work despite a bad website and incompetent handling of it.  Other obvious facts are that we do not have a strong enough health system to take on  new patients which would be many many millions of people and give them health care and new doctor visits.  Primary hospitals- many will not accept the insurance because it could break them financially.

2) We are heading into a serious Flu outbreak in the U.S. The last CDC map is not available but it is spreading.  So as Health Care is struggling, the system will be hit with a huge number of people with the Flu. As winter in some places is colder and natural disasters i.e. the current wave of super storms leaving many states in devastation in some areas, will continue to sweep across the U.S. with more tornadoes, hurricanes, and several weather. 

3) Although several presidents, Clinton and Reagan managed to rebound after huge fiascoes, it is sadly like when one cheats on his wife or woman cheats on her husband. In the former case it was actually cheating. In the second, it is dishonesty and infidelity to the American people. The trust is broken and cannot be regained. Dishonesty is not a working foundation for any relationship- especially the sacred bond between a leader and those which rely on him to take care of them and provide jobs so they can support America. 

4) People do have memories. Perhaps, it is thought that over time people will just forget. Well, they have been just forgetting for an entire term and well into the second one for this Administration.  The basic balance of the power of the Executive, Congressional, and Judicial branches has been rocked to core.   It won't take a memory to remember when they actually are in great hardship, especially the elderly, the poor, and the homeless.

I pray every night for our President that God will open his eyes and heart and allow him to find the solutions and go down in history as a truly great man who helped save our country. I think in this case, the reason I pray so much, is because at this point- it will take- a miracle. I am a patriot and more than the leaders - it is the people who have   the most power of all- in the end in a Democracy.

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Medclinician - not if but when - original
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QUOTE=DANNYKELLEY]Bs yes but true[/QUOTE]
 
At least you guys don't have Rob Ford as leader of 4th largest city in North America... Toronto gets a black eye every time he hits the news...What a train wreck...RC 
RC has nothing on me!
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If everyone thinks that Obamas rating are low now,just wait and see what happens if all of his plans go through and are implemented. The sad part about this is that this was his plan to start  with. He became President to destroy this nation and he does not care what his ratings are if he can get this done.He hates this nation and he always has and the liberal news has kept it covered up for him. My only advice is to buy more beans. In the words of a friend of mine " the nation has already been pushed over the cliff,we are just waiting to hit the bottom" Johnray1
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I heard on Fox news today that 60% to 70% of the Obomination software isn't developed yet.  They haven't developed the billing, payment to doctors, or the back office software.  This software isn't capable of paying the doctors!
 
Obmination care needs to be delayed or cancelled entirely.  I favor cancellation of it.
________________________________________________________________________
 
To change the subject, Obama removes "under God" when reciting the Gettysburg address.  Perhaps "under Allah" would have been more acceptable to him.
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Originally posted by Turboguy Turboguy wrote:

This is the General Discussion. If you want to talk about flu, there's a forum for that.


Oh, I know all about that. I'm over there a lot as it happens. Wasn't sure if you knew we had one  LOL
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Originally posted by Elver Elver wrote:

I heard on Fox news today...


Every time I hear "Fox" and "news" mentioned together, it always makes me smile Wink
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Originally posted by Mahshadin Mahshadin wrote:


<font style=": rgb0, 0, 0;"> 
<font style=": rgb0, 0, 0;">WOW
<font style=": rgb0, 0, 0;"> 
<font style=": rgb0, 0, 0;">That is some Radical BS
<font style=": rgb0, 0, 0;">Next you'll be pitching us fake insurance
 
You are so polarized in your own little box its not even worth commenting anymore


You mean like 0bamacare? I can't think of a better example of outright lies and deception as 0bamacare is.

Yeah, that's probably a good idea. You'd wind up even more embarrassed that you're supporting a catastrophe because of the letter before his name rather than the content of his character or his actions, none of which should align with anything you stand for if you're as intelligent as I believe you are.
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You mean like 0bamacare? I can't think of a better example of outright lies and deception as 0bamacare is."


umm

how about the war in Iraq ???







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THe war in Iraq was pretty lame in comparison to 0bamacare, as numerous Republican Guard generals who defected said that the stockpile was in Syria, and now we're all worried about Syria using those same chemical weapons against their own people. Secondly, our troops were exposed to chemical howitzer rounds used as IED's. If there was never anything there, how were those turning up? Furthermore if we came out and said, "Yeah, we found chemical weapons and they're here" we'd have pretty much told them exactly where the stuff is.

But nice deflection to Bush who hasn't been in office in six years. I'm honestly surprised that Bush is still coming up.

Regardless of whether Bush lied or not, it doesn't make it okay when Zer0 does it. This isn't some kind of moral equivalecy game where we say, "Well the last guy did it!" You're right, the last guy did it *A LOT!* But we've got the same guy that said that his was going to be the most open, honest, and transparent administration in history. It's not. Not by a long shot. If anything, it's the LEAST open, Least Honest, and dead last in transparency. Wasn't it John Stewart that said that?

If they're so transparent, why did Zer0 claim executive privilege over Fast and Furious? We all know why, but let's see some transparency.

Why are the Benghazi survivors prevented from testifying to congress? We all know exactly why, but how about some integrity and openness?

Why did it take THREE YEARS to create a 100% broken website, the centerpiece of 0bamacare, that from the latest reports isn't even 40% complete! In three years we took on the Nazis and whipped the Japanese! Oh, right, we went to one of Zer0's wife (Chewbacca's) former classmate's company in Canada, the same company that had just been fired and listed as persona non grata by the Canadian government where we spend six hundred MILLION dollars for a website that it would have taken five random people from any of the San Francisco Starbucks coffee shops les than a year and for less than a million dollars.
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Update- The ratings have dropped into the 30s now and despite awarding Bill Clinton with a medal after one week ago he fired heavy on the President, the numbers are bad and there is a growing loss of support by not only from the people, but Democratic members of the Senate and House. 

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/11/20/president-and-obamacare-sink-to-new-polling-lows/?hpt=hp_c2

Washington (CNN) – It's becoming a daily story: another national poll, another all-time low for President Barack Obama when it comes to his approval rating.

Wednesday morning it's CBS News. The President's approval rating stands at 37% in their new survey, plunging nine percentage points since last month–a new low for Obama in CBS News polling. The President's disapproval rating shot up from 49% in October to 57% now, a new high.

The President's approval rating has now reached new lows or tied his all-time lows in polls released over the past three weeks from CBS News, ABC News/Washington Post, Quinnipiac University, National Journal Heartland Monitor, and NBC News/Wall Street Journal.

comment: an apology, however sincere, which does not include any plan or promise of a realistic fix, is but another promise.  The launch date of this taking of money in a large sum from many being put on the plan,  is in 11 days. 

note: in response to Jacksdad - over the years the survival of AFT when there just wasn't much Avian, Bird, and other Flu news was its other discussions. Some days there just was no news of significance. Agreed with the outbreak of MERS in China, and further spread, it of course is more important than our political and economic disasters in the U.S.  If it spreads widely, all this discussion will be a moot point.

Yet, we must have money to prepare. You can gather old bottles, go to food banks, and try and get ready, but without a home and living in the street, there aren't a lot of Prep options left.

It is a prep in itself to keep informed and to act and select whatever options as the medical system may collapse and a lot of people with new official cards more than 48 million will present them locked doors or ERs in divert trauma mode.   Thank you to the people who are posting their opinions and thoughts and suggestions. "We the people" means We the People.

Review the options and stay informed. That is one of the biggest preps of all.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 20 2013 at 12:15pm
You didn't specify a time period, TG, so I'd say Satori was totally justified in bringing it up given the sweeping statements you're throwing out there in your posts.
Iraq was lame compared to Obamacare? Billions upon billions spent, tens of thousands of lives lost among the very people we claimed to be liberating, thousands of US and allied servicemen and women killed or disabled, a country in a slow spiral into all out sectarian chaos, and it was lame compared to legislation that aims to make healthcare available to all Americans.
Okay, that makes sense
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turboguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2013 at 8:30am
Originally posted by jacksdad jacksdad wrote:

You didn't specify a time period, TG, so I'd say Satori was totally justified in bringing it up given the sweeping statements you're throwing out there in your posts. Iraq was lame compared to Obamacare? Billions upon billions spent, tens of thousands of lives lost among the very people we claimed to be liberating, thousands of US and allied servicemen and women killed or disabled, a country in a slow spiral into all out sectarian chaos, and it was lame compared to legislation that aims to make healthcare available to all Americans. Okay, that makes sense


I don't have to specify a time period, Bush isn't the president anymore, and truth be told, as much of a F-ing idiot as he was, he was a better president than Zer0 by all and any metric, and that is truly sad because Bush was a truly bad president.

The saddest issue of all is how you Libs continue to bring up Bush like a broken record. "Herp Derp, 0bamacare doesn't work? Bush! Website broken? Bush! We didn't get our way and go to war in Syria? Bush! We sold guns to narcoterrorists in a false flag to ban guns in America and it didn't work? Bush! We let G model stingers fall into the hands of Al Qaeda and tried to cover it up? Bush!" Give it a rest, seriously. It's not healthy.

But in reference to the "Billions and Billions spent!" logic bomb: Exactly how much has 0bamacare cost us already? How much is it expected to cost us? And I'm not talking about the BS numbers Zer0 and gang release, I'm talking about *REAL* numbers. The pricetag of 0bamacare is pretty close to both wars combined. Trillions of dollars and we're already 126 Trillion in the hole. (At the time of me writing this)

"and it was lame compared to legislation that aims to make healthcare available to all Americans." You actually believe that drek? I've got some oceanfront property in Missouri I'd like to sell you because you've been sold a doozy. Unless I'm wrong about you, you're smarter than this and can do simple math. Even you should be able to figure this one out. I want you to explain how cancelling 100 million health insurance policies aims to make healthcare available to all Americans. Actually, I'll do you one better: I want you to explain exactly how cancelling the insurance policies of the WORKING CLASS on the order of a hundred million people is going to guarantee everyone gets healthcare.

You silly libs are busy blaming the Republicans for your abject failures and the Republicans aren't doing anything! Truth be told they tried to save you Libs from this, and you howled that they should be brought up for Treason!
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2013 at 10:33am
Originally posted by Turboguy Turboguy wrote:

...and the Republicans aren't doing anything!


At last we agree on something Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2013 at 11:49am
Originally posted by Turboguy Turboguy wrote:

The saddest issue of all is how you Libs continue to bring up Bush like a broken record. "Herp Derp, 0bamacare doesn't work? Bush! Website broken? Bush! We didn't get our way and go to war in Syria? Bush! We sold guns to narcoterrorists in a false flag to ban guns in America and it didn't work? Bush! We let G model stingers fall into the hands of Al Qaeda and tried to cover it up? Bush!" Give it a rest, seriously. It's not healthy.


Nice distraction, TG. You know as well as I do that Satori wasn't blaming Bush for the ACA - he was challenging you on your assertion that Obamacare was the worst thing since the beginning of time. You know, one of these days we'll just have to agree to disagree and use the free time constructively. I shouldn't even be doing this right now - I'm supposed to be fixing my transmission.


Originally posted by Turboguy Turboguy wrote:

Unless I'm wrong about you, you're smarter than this


Fooled ya LOL



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician2013 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2013 at 6:38pm
Back to the subject...

Well, if you don't like the numbers - create your own poll. That's right. The day after last Wednesday with the 37% we get a new poll stating it is the all time low which it wasn't.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/11/21/obama-approval-rating-sinks-to-new-low-in-cnn-poll/?hpt=hp_t2

The problem with some polls being put out by the media is that there are only 200 people sampled from selected areas in some of them. This cannot possibly be an accurate representation of the true numbers.

As the clock ticks i.e. December 1, 2013 and especially January 1, 2014, we also have the world on Red Alert from WHO at a time when the Health System is not headed for a success story quite yet.

stay tuned.
Medclinician - not if but when - original
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2013 at 6:42pm

left wing/right wing 

blah blah blah

merely different sides of the same damn counterfeit coin


Our Invisible Revolution

“Did you ever ask yourself how it happens that government and capitalism continue to exist in spite of all the evil and trouble they are causing in the world?” the anarchist Alexander Berkman wrote in his essay “The Idea Is the Thing.” “If you did, then your answer must have been that it is because the people support those institutions, and that they support them because they believe in them.”

Berkman was right. As long as most citizens believe in the ideas that justify global capitalism, the private and state institutions that serve our corporate masters are unassailable. When these ideas are shattered, the institutions that buttress the ruling class deflate and collapse. The battle of ideas is percolating below the surface. It is a battle the corporate state is steadily losing. An increasing number of Americans are getting it. They know that we have been stripped of political power. They recognize that we have been shorn of our most basic and cherished civil liberties, and live under the gaze of the most intrusive security and surveillance apparatus in human history. Half the country lives in poverty. Many of the rest of us, if the corporate state is not overthrown, will join them. These truths are no longer hidden.

It appears that political ferment is dormant in the United States. This is incorrect. The ideas that sustain the corporate state are swiftly losing their efficacy across the political spectrum. The ideas that are rising to take their place, however, are inchoate. The right has retreated into Christian fascism and a celebration of the gun culture. The left, knocked off balance by decades of fierce state repression in the name of anti-communism, is struggling to rebuild and define itself. Popular revulsion for the ruling elite, however, is nearly universal. It is a question of which ideas will capture the public’s imagination.

"It is certain now that a popular revolt is coming."

Revolution usually erupts over events that would, in normal circumstances, be considered meaningless or minor acts of injustice by the state. But once the tinder of revolt has piled up, as it has in the United States, an insignificant spark easily ignites popular rebellion. No person or movement can ignite this tinder. No one knows where or when the eruption will take place. No one knows the form it will take. But it is certain now that a popular revolt is coming. The refusal by the corporate state to address even the minimal grievances of the citizenry, along with the abject failure to remedy the mounting state repression, the chronic unemployment and underemployment, the massive debt peonage that is crippling more than half of Americans, and the loss of hope and widespread despair, means that blowback is inevitable.

“Because revolution is evolution at its boiling point you cannot ‘make’ a real revolution any more than you can hasten the boiling of a tea kettle,” Berkman wrote. “It is the fire underneath that makes it boil: how quickly it will come to the boiling point will depend on how strong the fire is.”

Revolutions, when they erupt, appear to the elites and the establishment to be sudden and unexpected. This is because the real work of revolutionary ferment and consciousness is unseen by the mainstream society, noticed only after it has largely been completed. Throughout history, those who have sought radical change have always had to first discredit the ideas used to prop up ruling elites and construct alternative ideas for society, ideas often embodied in a utopian revolutionary myth. The articulation of a viable socialism as an alternative to corporate tyranny—as attempted by the book “Imagine: Living in a Socialist USA” and the website Popular Resistance—is, for me, paramount. Once ideas shift for a large portion of a population, once the vision of a new society grips the popular imagination, the old regime is finished.

An uprising that is devoid of ideas and vision is never a threat to ruling elites. Social upheaval without clear definition and direction, without ideas behind it, descends into nihilism, random violence and chaos. It consumes itself. This, at its core, is why I disagree with some elements of the Black Bloc anarchists. I believe in strategy. And so did many anarchists, including Berkman, Emma Goldman, Pyotr Kropotkin and Mikhail Bakunin.

By the time ruling elites are openly defied, there has already been a nearly total loss of faith in the ideas—in our case free market capitalism and globalization—that sustain the structures of the ruling elites. And once enough people get it, a process that can take years, “the slow, quiet, and peaceful social evolution becomes quick, militant, and violent,” as Berkman wrote. “Evolution becomes revolution.”

This is where we are headed. I do not say this because I am a supporter of revolution. I am not. I prefer the piecemeal and incremental reforms of a functioning democracy. I prefer a system in which our social institutions permit the citizenry to nonviolently dismiss those in authority. I prefer a system in which institutions are independent and not captive to corporate power. But we do not live in such a system. Revolt is the only option left. Ruling elites, once the ideas that justify their existence are dead, resort to force. It is their final clutch at power. If a nonviolent popular movement is able to ideologically disarm the bureaucrats, civil servants and police—to get them, in essence, to defect—nonviolent revolution is possible. But if the state can organize effective and prolonged violence against dissent, it spawns reactive revolutionary violence, or what the state calls terrorism. Violent revolutions usually give rise to revolutionaries as ruthless as their adversaries. “Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster,” Friedrich Nietzsche wrote. “And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”

Violent revolutions are always tragic. I, and many other activists, seek to keep our uprising nonviolent. We seek to spare the country the savagery of domestic violence by both the state and its opponents. There is no guarantee that we will succeed, especially with the corporate state controlling a vast internal security apparatus and militarized police forces. But we must try.

Corporations, freed from all laws, government regulations and internal constraints, are stealing as much as they can, as fast as they can, on the way down. The managers of corporations no longer care about the effects of their pillage. Many expect the systems they are looting to fall apart. They are blinded by personal greed and hubris. They believe their obscene wealth can buy them security and protection. They should have spent a little less time studying management in business school and a little more time studying human nature and human history. They are digging their own graves.

Our shift to corporate totalitarianism, like the shift to all forms of totalitarianism, is incremental. Totalitarian systems ebb and flow, sometimes taking one step back before taking two steps forward, as they erode democratic liberalism. This process is now complete. The “consent of the governed” is a cruel joke. Barack Obama cannot defy corporate power any more than George W. Bush or Bill Clinton could. Unlike his two immediate predecessors, Bush, who is intellectually and probably emotionally impaired, did not understand the totalitarian process abetted by the presidency. Because Clinton and Obama, and their Democratic Party, understand the destructive roles they played and are playing, they must be seen as far more cynical and far more complicit in the ruination of the country. Democratic politicians speak in the familiar “I-feel-your-pain” language of the liberal class while allowing corporations to strip us of personal wealth and power. They are effective masks for corporate power.

The corporate state seeks to maintain the fiction of our personal agency in the political and economic process. As long as we believe we are participants, a lie sustained through massive propaganda campaigns, endless and absurd election cycles and the pageantry of empty political theater, our corporate oligarchs rest easy in their private jets, boardrooms, penthouses and mansions. As the bankruptcy of corporate capitalism and globalization is exposed, the ruling elite are increasingly nervous. They know that if the ideas that justify their power die, they are finished. This is why voices of dissent—as well as spontaneous uprisings such as the Occupy movement—are ruthlessly crushed by the corporate state

"

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/10/28


emphasis on this section


"Our shift to corporate totalitarianism, like the shift to all forms of totalitarianism, is incremental. Totalitarian systems ebb and flow, sometimes taking one step back before taking two steps forward, as they erode democratic liberalism. This process is now complete. The “consent of the governed” is a cruel joke. Barack Obama cannot defy corporate power any more than George W. Bush or Bill Clinton could. Unlike his two immediate predecessors, Bush, who is intellectually and probably emotionally impaired, did not understand the totalitarian process abetted by the presidency. Because Clinton and Obama, and their Democratic Party, understand the destructive roles they played and are playing, they must be seen as far more cynical and far more complicit in the ruination of the country. Democratic politicians speak in the familiar “I-feel-your-pain” language of the liberal class while allowing corporations to strip us of personal wealth and power. They are effective masks for corporate power."


people are slowly waking up


the emperor has no clothes


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