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PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
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Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

Obesity Pandemic???

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emmajones View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emmajones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2006 at 8:18am
vstr has some valid points. There's a difference between giving the reasons for something and making excuses for it. But I agree that pandemic and epidemic are the wrong words to use for this problem.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2006 at 3:31pm
I think that anyone who has the courage to face a addiction be it food, alchohol, drugs, nicotine is to be comended. Whatever route they choose that works for them to improve their life is good.
I am not trying to put blame on anyone, I dont think the blame game is a good thing anyhow, the real issues get lost, when one tries to find someone to hold responsible. Each individuals life is their own responsibility.
To anyone who is trying to end a bad habit, Good luck, may you be sucessful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mieke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2006 at 4:28pm
How about (small) children, vstr? Like the kid (a girl) who at the age of 7 could only wear clothes the size of a grown up woman in her 40s or so?
I have no time right now to look for links, but I swear you they exist! Over here a growing number of special clinics is opened over the past few years, clinics for obese children only.
 
So where would that leave responsibility for your own health, if you're only 7 years old still? And by the way: I personally knew that little girl.
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Mieke, I agree that kids can not control what type of foods they are served at that age. The so called experts have gone from saying that if a child is left alone to eat what they want, they will choose healthy food. I never saw that with any of my five. Then, a few years later, I saw a Oprah show, where they said that obsesity in kids was a form of child abuse. Often you see overweight kids with overweight parents, not only are they eating the wrong thing and too much of it, but the parents are teaching them bad eating habits by example. Much the same as alcholics teaching kids how to abuse booze through example, except that children dont drink, so the results are not seen at seven. Or at least not often.
Food is like any other potentially abusive substance, some start younger then others, some can quit and others can not, some will die from the addiction. Just like in the fifties we used to think that alchohol abuse was a matter of will power, we still believe that with food today, it maybe, at one point, but where is the point where that line is crossed with addictions? I think it differs for each person. We do know now, that it takes more then just saying, I dont want to drink to stay sober. I think, that is also true of overweight. I am not talking about, fifty pounds even, we are talking morbid or super morbid obesity.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mahshadin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2006 at 9:05pm

Chicken Virus: did I hear that right. I coud not believe it so I did my own search and low and behold there are tests. It must be easier to identify than H5N1 

 
Amazing
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."   G Orwell
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MelodyAtHome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2006 at 9:14pm
Regarding obesity, here is my opinion. Yes there are a few people with medical problems, thryoid, etc..BUT MOST people who are obese...if you go into their home... I GUARANTEE you will find donuts, candy, sugary sweets, pop, cookies, other types of things like that...So the kids are eating it AND they aren't going out to play outside at all. Sure we all have different body types, some are tall and skinny, some are short and stocky, some in between, some have faster metabolisms than others BUT to be severely obese one is eating WAAAAY too much and of the wrong stuff. That would solve MOST people's obesity problems. Keep the junk out of the house. If you are hungry EAT but eat Real Food without all the junk snack. I see it at the YMCA. Mom's are walking for exercise while eating potato chips AND a snickers after the walk! The poor little children are almost as big as parents at 7 years old. Why are parents doing this to the kids? I could just cry. Growing up we never had pop, snacks in the house EVER. OK at Christmas and Thanksgiving we would have Crush for the grown ups. Kids would drink milk. We never sat inside the house. We worked helping parents in the yard, gardens, biked, skated, swam, always on the move. OK sorry I had to go on but it is very upsetting ESPECIALLLy to see the children like this. It is one thing if you are an adult and want to do this to your own body but don't do it to your kids. Disapprove
Melody
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2006 at 9:46pm
 
Health and Health Care in Schools
Vol 6, No 8 - December 2005
 
 
 
 
Experts Cite Physical Activity as Key in
 
Preventing Childhood Obesity

Asked by members of Congress to identify the "strategies and elements" likely to contribute to success in addressing childhood obesity, the Government Accountability Office (GAO) said in a report released November 7 that experts from a number of fields identified "increasing physical activity" as the single most important strategy, followed by use of evidence-based "best practice" models. Improving nutrition choices and eating habits came in third in the expert opinions.

In a response to the report, the Department of Health and Human Services called the GAO’s findings inconsistent with an Institute of Medicine paper issued earlier this year that said preventing obesity involves both regular physical activity and improved eating behaviors. The GAO stood by its findings, noting that while the experts rated physical activity highly, they also pointed out that it’s not the sole strategy for preventing obesity. "Both physical activity and nutritional strategies are important," the GAO said.

In the GAO survey, 233 experts in physical activity, nutrition, and childhood obesity were given the option of identifying the strategy they thought most likely to succeed in curbing childhood obesity and they were also asked to cite promising "other" possibilities for action. While most respondents identified increasing physical activity as a priority, there were also many suggestions in the "other" category, the GAO noted, including reducing the availability of high-sugar and other non-nutritional beverages and snacks on school property.

In the nutrition category, respondents noted a variety of possible improvements including;

  • No longer involving food in school-sponsored events;
  • Vending machines that dispense milk instead of sweetened beverages;
  • Salad bars as a daily lunch option;
  • Educating food staff on good nutrition; and
  • Increasing use of fresh fruits and vegetables. (Respondents noted that preparation of these foods is labor-intensive and requires a kitchen in every school.)

Many respondents expressed concern about the federal school lunch and breakfast programs, saying children are being "offered unhealthy food in the school environment."

The respondents also offered examples of strategies schools have employed to increase physical activity, including an initiative that gives children hole-punched cards to record walking during recess, with the cards redeemable for small rewards such as colorful pencils. One school provided incentives such as wristbands, water bottles, and jump ropes to encourage children to walk at least five miles a week; and another gave pedometers to children and adults to encourage walking. Commenters acknowledged that existing infrastructures—such as a lack of bicycle racks at schools, lack of sidewalks in communities, heavy traffic, and unsafe neighborhoods—may present challenges to increasing physical activity.

Selling Snack Food and Promoting Exercise

Multinational corporations that sell snack foods and beverages are also weighing in on the exercise/nutrition issue, possibly hoping to avoid the problems that have plagued the tobacco industry, where lawsuits charging cigarette manufacturers with responsibility for smoking-related illness have been costly for the industry in recent years.

The Coca Cola company, for example, expects to have a $4 million Live It program, which provides funds to buy pedometers, in 8,500 middle schools by the end of this year; General Mills is making $2 million a year in grants to schools and community groups for nutrition and fitness programs; Kraft gave $2.9 million in similar grants in 2005 and expects to spend $3.6 million next year; and PepsiCo Inc. is funding playgrounds as part of a campaign to promote exercise. "It’s all about moving more, helping kids move more," said Brock Leach, PepsiCo’s chief innovation officer.

Critics charge that those programs, and messages now appearing on cereal and snack food packages encouraging exercise, are intended to make it possible for the companies to continue to sell low-nutrition foods to children while avoiding responsibility for obesity and weight gain and avoiding possible government oversight of their businesses.

The School Food Program

As schools are asked to provide more physical education and opportunities for exercise during the day and at recess, in order to reduce overweight and obesity, questions are arising about a major source of the foods children eat at school. The federal National School Lunch program was created many decades ago to improve the nutrition of a population that had been found to be undernourished, and also to provide an outlet for commodities the government wants to remove from the marketplace in order to keep prices stable.

Those objectives may have led to rules for the school food program that lean too heavily on calorie density and too little on foods that might reduce weight, critics point out, problems that are exacerbated by loss of kitchens in many schools and reliance on central food processing facilities, which make it difficult to serve the fresh fruits and vegetables often recommended for weight control.

Added to those possible problems, the critics note, is the growing tendency of schools to offer foods outside the traditional lunch program, in ala carte lines or vending machines, with the offerings often fast-foods of poor nutritional value.

The Institute of Medicine (IOM), the science advisor to the federal government, will hear presentations December 5 at the National Academy of Sciences in Washington, DC, on "Approaches to Nutrition Standards for Foods in Schools," as part of an ongoing IOM examination of childhood obesity.

The GAO report, "Childhood Obesity: Most Experts Identified Physical Activity and the Use of Best Practices as Key to Successful Programs," is available online at http://www.gao.gov/docsearch/abstract.php?rptno=GAO-06-127R.

See also Keeping Kids Healthy: Overweight, Nutrition & Physical Exercise at http://www.healthinschools.org/sh/obesity.asp and Childhood Overweight: What the Research Tells Us at http://www.healthinschools.org/sh/obesityfs.asp.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MelodyAtHome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2006 at 9:50pm
I was SHOCKED when I found out when there was pop and candy vending machines in schools. R they nuts!
Melody
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2006 at 9:59pm
Yes :).........  Another reason parents homeschool kids.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MelodyAtHome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2006 at 10:01pm
Anharra, do you homeschool? We do:O)
Melody
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Judy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2006 at 11:08pm

Hope the milk being dispensed is skim......

1 8 oz cup of whole milk: 150 calories; total fat, 8g; cholesterol= 35mg;total carbs=12g; sugar=12g; protein=8g.

1 8oz cup of cola: 100 calories; fat=0; carbs=27g; sugars=27 g.
 
As a diabetic, it is very rare that I would have a cup of soda, but milk raises blood sugar so quickly and so high I am only allowed a total of 8 oz skim daily.  Whole milk will cause weight gain and strangle your heart.
If ignorance is bliss, what is chocolate?
   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flowerchild Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2006 at 3:07am
I have a story.  I am considered obese.  When I was 27 I was diagnosed with severe hip dysplasia.  I had been very active and when I was younger even did some modeling.  After the doctors messed around trying to give me NSAIDS which ate a hole in my stomach, that combined with the fact I can hardly even walk anymore I put on alot of weight.  I am in the process of dieting now, but it is very difficult when my excercise is limited to doing housework. The way my stomach is I can eat very little without getting sick.
This story is about my son.  He is very big for his age and always has been.  He has had teachers call him fat, lazy and stupid.  I remember one Halloween party when he was in fifth grade.  His very nasty teacher came up to him, right in front of me, and said, I bet you really like to eat all the candy at Halloween.  His reply was, No I don't even like candy, I would rather eat healthy foods like homemade salsa.  I will never forget the shocked look on her face.
I really feel like obesity is one of the last socially acceptable things to be prejudiced against.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scotty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2006 at 3:25am
So I went into the kitchen and there wasn't any food anywhere. All I could find was ingredients. What use is that?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2006 at 4:27am
I think I may now have too many preps.  Unless BF hits between now and about Christmas, I think my kids will soon have a better place to go to hole up.
 
I don't regret buying it all though, it was the right decision at the time.  Now things have changed dramatically.
Beth
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Flower,
My heart goes out to your child. My daughter had a rare blood disease as a child, she was normal weight even tiny prior to that, she was a preemie. She had to take massive doses of steriods to make it so her blood would clot and she would not bleed to death from minor bumps etc. At five she was taking steriods four times the amount a man the size of Arnold Shwartznaeger would use, and four times daily so roughly sixteen times more. She gained a huge amount of weight. After she got off the meds, she was never able to lose the weight. She would lose and gain back. I have no idea why. No one else in the house was obese.
She is now 25 and had bariatric surgery last year and has lost almost two hundred pounds. She looks great.
She had never had a boyfriend or a date, before surgery, she was ridiculed, laughed at and teased all her life. She has had some wonderful friends also, but they were far and few. The cruelty from teachers, classmates and everyone in general was pure torture. She would go in to get her nails done and people would just look and laugh at her. Yet she is one of the kindest people I have ever known in my life.
She has now lost the weight, but the years of hurt will always be there. She had to use anti depressants and was even suicidal at one time, she has now confessed because she had tried to hard to loose weight  and could not. The surgery was life threatening anyone who thinks it is the easy way out, should look at the eighteen inch scar and see the drainage tubes and all that goes with it.
I agree with you, weight because most of the overweight are ashamed and wont stand up for themselves is the last area where it is ok to be cruel. I sure so hope, that people will be kinder, and not do to others what was done to your son and my daughter. They may have a loved one someday with the same problem and they will never forget their harsh words and attitudes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MelodyAtHome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2006 at 3:52pm
I am very sorry to hear those of you who have or have family memebers with health issues causing all types of other problems. Remember there are the overweight with health issues that caused it then there are most who just eat too much. Either way overweight or any other people should NEVER be hurt by cruel words or actions.
I feel terrible, especially for the children who have no reason to be overweight OTHER than their parents are buying and feeding them way too much food and not letting them play or play with them to keep them active. It is a terrible thing that is going on.
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Anharra, do you homeschool? We do:O)
.......................................................................
 
Yes :)     and one in college now.. BS in mgt.  great yrs. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Judy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2006 at 7:23pm

Scotty: People with severe health problems become highly conscious of the ingredients in the food they purchase. Particular foods or ingredients do not go with particular health conditions. Not to mention allergies that can cause anaphylatic shock, like foods with hidden tiny bits of peanuts or peanut oil. Some foods have additives like vitamin K which is dangerous to ingest with DVT or pulmunary embolism, and can nullify treatments of anticoagulants.  Patients with severe illnesses eat nothing but ingredients and they have to pick the safest way to go if they are going to continue to live. Not a fun way to shop or eat, but at least it's living.

If ignorance is bliss, what is chocolate?
   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MelodyAtHome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2006 at 7:38pm

Anharra, I noticed there are several other people on this forum who homeschool. I feel comfortable knowing that if something happens I don't have to go pick up my kids...they are already with me:O) I really enjoy it. They are only 4 and 7 and it amazes me how much they learn without me lecturing them too:O) They WANT to learn. I just love it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2006 at 1:09pm

I did too for quite a while.  I love the way they learn without  formal lessons, you just draw their attention to what they need to learn in the context of what is going on around them.  Mine are grown up now.  They all did well.

Beth

Originally posted by MelodyAtHome MelodyAtHome wrote:

Anharra, I noticed there are several other people on this forum who homeschool. I feel comfortable knowing that if something happens I don't have to go pick up my kids...they are already with me:O) I really enjoy it. They are only 4 and 7 and it amazes me how much they learn without me lecturing them too:O) They WANT to learn. I just love it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mieke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2006 at 1:43pm
Back on topic (obesity), why don't you take a look in here:
 
 
Jun 11, 2004 20: 42 EST
These guys stole my idea! I've heard plenty of folks talk about that other bene of climbing and hiking at altitude -- the way the weight just melts off effortlessly. For serious athletes and elite climbers, weight loss is the enemy, but for many trekkers, a nice little perk. A few years ago I joked that we should run a high dollar fat camp to raise money for our clinic -- "eat all the pringles and chocolate bars you want, and STILL lose weight!" Well, turns out it's not a joke, at least the part about easy weight loss.

The abstracts are out for the upcoming VI World Congress on Mountain Medicine & High Altitude Physiology, and among those to be presented at the meeting in Lhasa in August is "PROGRESS IN STUDYING WEIGHT LOSS AT HIGH ALTITUDE AND ITS POTENTIAL APPLICATION IN PATIENTS WITH OBESITY" by Rili Ge, et al. The authors note that obesity is becoming a major disease in developed countries; it is well known that exposure to high altitude can cause weight loss, which might be used as an alternative way to treat patients with obesity. Their study explored the relationship of body weight loss induced by exposure to high altitude (4600 M) and its potential application in treating patients with obesity comparing those from sea level to those from moderate altitude. They found that the average weight loss for subjects from sea level was 10.2% (highest was 29%), compared to only 2.3% for those from 2000 m. The authors conclude that for people going to high altitude from sea level, the percentage of weight lossat high altitude is positively related to their BMI and that perhaps these folks could benefit from fitness centers at high altitude.

Add in the obligatory gastrointestinal upset en route to altitude, and this idea could become a real cash cow? (Sorry for the bad pun.)
 
(Source & © is ExplorersWeb, New York)
 
Does anyone here have experience with "high altitude fighting" of overweight (obesity)????
Would that indeed provide a solution for some people? Provided they won't start to suffer from altitude sickness...
 
This is a shot of the Mount Everest Base Camp Clinic (± 5.400 metres above seal evel):
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linda-ann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2006 at 8:35pm
I am battling the weight issue for me its lack of exercise and way too much junk.
When we were kids my mother only once bought pop. One pack of chookies for four kids and one small containerr of icecream was bought weekly..  We had a garden and ate fruit and thank you my mother couldnt bake if her life depended on it.
 
Junk food came out in the seventies .  Before it wasnt that common , at least in European homes.    I rarely ate processed foods in the seventies and I didt eat it much in the eighties as I developed good eating habits and I didnt like that most junk food is mushy in texture. 
Cheeze whiz was the first fast food, high in salt saturated fat and conveinant.  Junk food snuck up top us. Our children suffer more as they have grownup with it. For most of us junk food was a rare treat, not a daily meal.  Dinner wasnt meant to be fun entertainning , it was what was low cost and healthly no excusses , 
 
Food is entertainment now. In short of course its a conspiaracy plus women work and we dont want to work full time then clean and cook from scratch everyday, Food manufactures add too much salt and fat and we are addicted to the conveinance. 
 
There are several reasons for why any person is fat and each person has to tackle the problem individually.
 
I am changing the way I   eat  by  cutting back on the fast food sugar and adding more sugar.  I did it before and lost forty pounds .It took me three months    My dream is to be the person I see running by my house in shortsr its my goal.   
 
I am going to keep a journal on my computer to help me focas on my diet.i I am trying to add 5-10 fruit and vegetables daily.   Low fat protein soursces and less bread and sugar.  Skim milk and water bottles.
 
I want to eat clean, live clean , clean is less fat less salt  more raw food , less chemicals, pure ingrediants.   It not a radical diet just healthy eating , its boaring at times. focased .  and  hard to stay motivated. 
to me by focasing on eating clean helps me stay motivated
 
I am prepping that way too.  I dont have chookies or high fat processed foods
Can food single ingrediant food plus rice flour .  There is no way to prep really as healthly as we eat now,  but I am trying.
 
My favourtie fast food meal now is baked spagettii squash with a little parmasean chesse or speggetti sause ,
Or baked potatoe low fat sour cream and  chopped onions .
My mom used to bring out a tray of vegetables with barbeque sause as a dip.In truth because it would of spoiled if it stayed in the fridge another day.
 
Food as entertainment is the problem , when you get fat you go out less and then eat in boardom .
 
 
 
.  
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Originally posted by Heidi Heidi wrote:

Hey Kevo,
 
Alot of obesity in this county is caused by the hormones in meat and dairy products.  They inject the cows etc. to fatten them up and they bioaccumulate in them and us. It is difficult and quite expensive to avoid them. Not only that but alot of people are just plain ignorant of them.  No excuse but our government sure does not help.
 
I must say that the Europeans are much more aware of what they put in their mouth.
 
Also, you guys are scrunched together in a small amount of space and can get around by walking and on mass transit, which is everywhere over there.   Whereas most people here need their car to get to work or just do the days shopping. Not as much opportunity to walk around and spend calories.
 
That said, my husband and I did our Master's Degrees in England in the late 80's and now are forbidden from every donating blood, thanks to the mad cow that we were possible exposed to in your county.
 
p.s. I was over your side just a year ago and you guys are getting pretty fat too!  LOL


Obesity was declared an epidemic in West Virginia and they actually sent a team from CDC to investigate. Does this sound tabloid?

http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/dnpa/obesity/state_programs/west_virginia.htm

My personal theory is that it is the hormones and other chemicals put into the meat to fatten animals up. In addition to horrific food "yummy" additives which destroy taste buds and neural cells,  the food industry has no mercy on we who tread the chemical smelling haunts of Wendy's, MacDonald's, Round Table Pizza, Chinese Buffets (guilty - big time),
and places where MSG shakers should be next to salt and pepper in the kitchens and probably are.

No doubt, the massive effort to make our food massive is having its effect. The health issue is catastrophic. Most of the diabetics patients I have treated were overweight.

I eat once a day and barely can lose a lb a day or every two days.. and still and still am definitely not half the man I used to be.

They banned Stackers (which I never used - high blood pressure - I would blow up) and West Virginia gals began to truly bloom.

I am not super large, but I will tell you..if someone said - MC - your food supply will be cut off for a month, I would say, lets just say two months, and maybe I'll be just about where I want to be weight wise.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mooloomen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2006 at 7:03am
Originally posted by marks6555 marks6555 wrote:

Isn't weird how the media is all over a pandemic created by obesity the same day H5N1 is found in 3 American states?

Could it be that certain ppl are trying to distract the public from what is really occuring?

newsnow

-mark
 
Champ, I work in media. And yes I am here. It is all true, George Bush has gagged us from telling you exactly how it is. The new laws passed have made it a jailable offense to discuss B/F in the newspaper. No warnings. There are other things we can't report on too, but I am not willing to discuss those either.
 
I am basically taking a chance even talking about it here. You think you live in a free country? Yeah right!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jofg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2006 at 7:15am
Mooloomen - I thought you were a New Zealander.  If so, how can the US prez gag you from speaking out??
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Please cite for me the exact law in the united states of america that prohibits the press from discussing bird flu.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mooloomen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2006 at 7:30am
Originally posted by jofg jofg wrote:

Mooloomen - I thought you were a New Zealander.  If so, how can the US prez gag you from speaking out??
\
Have you heard of the ANZUS treaty?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mooloomen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2006 at 7:56am
Please cite for me the exact law in the united states of america that prohibits the press from discussing bird flu.
 
Clearly you are no lawyer, but have your legal person research this...
 
 "anti sedition"  a minmalistic but all encompassing instrument of law.
 
We are not talking about a parking ticket here. 
 
Dont bait me, I really am not that keen to do any more talking. If you research that phrase, you will understand why my learned friend.
 
And a tip, don't be so cynical.
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See in it's entirety here....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANZUS

The United States suspends ANZUS obligations to New Zealand

After consultations with Australia and after negotiations with New Zealand broke down, the United States announced that it was suspending its treaty obligations to New Zealand until United States Navy ships were re-admitted to New Zealand ports, citing that New Zealand was "a friend, but not an ally". The crisis made front-page headlines for weeks in many American newspapers, while many American cabinet members were quoted as expressing a deep sense of "betrayal". It is still often incorrectly stated that David Lange withdrew New Zealand from ANZUS — he had however done no such thing; his government's policy led to the US's decision to suspend its treaty obligations to New Zealand.

While the crisis with navy visits was prominent, the United States proved to be more forgiving of Australia's refusal to assist with the Peacekeeper missile. Fearing the total collapse of the ANZUS treaty, the US government decided to accommodate Australian domestic politics, particularly after NATO countries and other allies such as Japan showed little interest in taking a similar stance against nuclear weapons such as the Pershing missile.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mooloomen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2006 at 8:03am
OK legal eagle, look up "Anti Sedition".
 
I may have got ANZUS wrong. Why are you people so damned cynical?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mooloomen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2006 at 8:05am
If you research a little closer you might see that NZ actually suspended ANZUS with the US. Do some more research there cynical one.
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In fact, who cares, find your own information out. I dont even know why I bother.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mieke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2006 at 8:08am
Excuse me, but aren't a few of you sliding just a tiny little bit off topic?
This thread was supposed to be about obesity, or wasn't it?
Why don't you start a new one if you want to discuss the politics between the USA and New Zealand?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2006 at 10:09am
There is room here for all opinions....
 
New Zealand wasn't ok with.... the dangers of nuclear weapons, continued nuclear testing according to Wikipedia.
 
 
 
 
"...United States and France which had conducted nuclear tests on South Pacific islands. Following the victory of the New Zealand Labour Party in elections in 1984, Prime Minister David Lange created policy which barred nuclear-powered or nuclear-armed ships from using New Zealand ports, citing the dangers of nuclear weapons, continued nuclear testing in the South Pacific..."
 
 
ANZUS
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
See in it's entirety here....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANZUS
 
 
Excerpts-
 
"The treaty was previously a full three-way defence pact, but following a dispute between New Zealand and the United States in 1984 over visiting rights for nuclear-armed or nuclear-powered ships of the U.S. Navy in New Zealand ports, the treaty no longer applies between the United States and New Zealand, but is still in force between either country and Australia, separately.
 
The US-Australia alliance under the ANZUS Treaty remains in full force. Heads of defence of one or both nations often have joined the annual ministerial meetings, which are supplemented by consultations between the U.S. Commander in Chief Pacific and the Australian Chief of Defence Force.
 
There also are regular civilian and military consultations between the two governments at lower levels. Annual meetings to discuss ANZUS defence matters take place between the United States Secretary of State and the Australian Minister for Foreign Affairs (AUSMIN). The 17th AUSMIN meeting took place in Adelaide in November 2005.
 
Unlike NATO, ANZUS has no integrated defence structure or dedicated forces. However, in fulfillment of ANZUS obligations, Australia and the United States conduct a variety of joint activities. These include military exercises ranging from naval and landing exercises at the task-group level to battalion-level special forces training, assigning officers to each other's armed services, and standardizing equipment and operational doctrine.
 
The two countries also operate several joint defence facilities in Australia, mainly ground stations for early warning satellites, and signals intelligence gathering in South-East Asia and East Asia as part of the ECHELON network."
.........
 
New Zealand bans nuclear ships
 
In 1985, the nature of the ANZUS alliance changed significantly. Tensions had long been present between Australia, New Zealand and the declared nuclear powers the United States and France which had conducted nuclear tests on South Pacific islands.
 
Following the victory of the New Zealand Labour Party in elections in 1984, Prime Minister David Lange created policy which barred nuclear-powered or nuclear-armed ships from using New Zealand ports, citing the dangers of nuclear weapons, continued nuclear testing in the South Pacific, and opposition to US President Ronald Reagan's policy of aggressively confronting the Soviet Union.
 
Given that the United States Navy refused to confirm or deny the presence of nuclear weapons aboard ships, these laws in effect refused access to New Zealand ports for all ships of the United States Navy. In February 1985, a port-visit request by the United States for the USS Buchanan was refused by New Zealand, as the Buchanan was capable of launching nuclear depth bombs.
 
It is important to note that this policy did not become law until 8 June 1987 with the passing of the New Zealand Nuclear Free Zone, Disarmament and Arms Control Act. This was more than two years after the Buchanan was refused entry after the USA refused to declare the presence or absence of nuclear weapons, and a year after the USA suspended its own treaty obligations to New Zealand.
 
On 10 July 1985, the French DGSE bombed the Greenpeace protest vessel Rainbow Warrior in Auckland. This event strengthened the nation's resolution to oppose in any form the military application of nuclear technology.
 
The failure of Western leaders to condemn what could be considered an act of war on New Zealand by France caused a great deal of change in foreign and defence policy.[2] New Zealand distanced itself from its traditional ally, the United States, and built relationships with small South Pacific nations, while retaining its excellent relations with Australia, and to a lesser extent, the United Kingdom.[3]
[edit]
The United States suspends ANZUS obligations to New Zealand
After consultations with Australia and after negotiations with New Zealand broke down, the United States announced that it was suspending its treaty obligations to New Zealand until United States Navy ships were re-admitted to New Zealand ports, citing that New Zealand was "a friend, but not an ally".
 
The crisis made front-page headlines for weeks in many American newspapers, while many American cabinet members were quoted as expressing a deep sense of "betrayal". It is still often incorrectly stated that David Lange withdrew New Zealand from ANZUS — he had however done no such thing; his government's policy led to the US's decision to suspend its treaty obligations to New Zealand.
 
While the crisis with navy visits was prominent, the United States proved to be more forgiving of Australia's refusal to assist with the Peacekeeper missile. Fearing the total collapse of the ANZUS treaty, the US government decided to accommodate Australian domestic politics, particularly after NATO countries and other allies such as Japan showed little interest in taking a similar stance against nuclear weapons such as the Pershing missile.
[edit]
September 11, 2001 Attacks
Whilst Australia and New Zealand have fought alongside the United States before the treaty signing including in the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the Gulf War and elsewhere the ANZUS treaty's provisions for assistance when a member nation comes under threat were officially invoked for the first time by Australia after the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.
 
Australia and New Zealand both provided military units, including special forces and naval ships in support of the US led Operation Enduring Freedom, the military response to the September 11, 2001 attacks.

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2006 at 10:24am
Originally posted by mooloomen mooloomen wrote:

In fact, who cares, find your own information out. I dont even know why I bother.
 
mooloomen - I understand the anti sedition laws and how it can hinder reporting on BF. One thing I noticed in your posts (and you may be unaware of it) is that they seem a little on the hostile side. We are all just people here. Sometimes we get bombarded by trolls. One of the ways we identify a troll is by the hostile posts. If you're in fact being prevented from reporting information that you feel is detrimental to the public, I understand your frustration, I would feel the same. But we are not your enemy. If you have information that you would like to share concerning avian influenza we want to hear it.
I hope you'll continue to share information. Welcome to the board.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mieke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2006 at 10:27am
@ Anharra
 
I didn't say or suggest there would be no room for "all opinions" here. But seeing how this is your reaction to my remark about going off-topic all the time, perhaps you and a few others around here should first start learning a bit about the proper use of webforums?
 
Is that possible? That you think it's okay to fill up any thread on a board with just whatever comes to mind and fully regardless of the topic and what other users wanted to discuss? If so, please ignore my remarks. They were meant to add to the quality of the board/thread. But I'll leave it to the administrator to decide whether he wants a total jungle here, or a serious webforum.
 
 
cheers!
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jofg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2006 at 11:24am

I didn’t mean to have driven this off-topic...but Moo's comment struck me as a little odd and I was trying to clarify. 

 

Moolooman – sorry to have questioned you, but when people make comments like you did you have to expect some cynicism and skepticism and to be asked for more details. Nothing personal – I’m just trying to better understand

 

Mieke – I don’t think anyone was taking the thread off-topic.  Some issues/questions came up and were being addressed. I suppose I could have started a new thread calling out Mooloomen – but that really didn’t seem appropriate. Personally, I really enjoy how threads ebb and flow. When a threads been around for some time and has a lot of replies, it seems only natural that issues will come up and be addressed.

 
So - to bring us back on topic - Smile  - I think there are multiple reasons for the obesity problem: too little exercise (that's my problem), too much fast food and processed food, and my personal scapgoat- High Fructose Corn Syrup!  This stuff is in practically everything.  Whatever happened to good old sugar and natural sweeteners??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2006 at 12:20pm
hi
mieke ...   far out .... actually I wasn't even addressing your post here. 
But I'm flattered you single me out.  I thought the treaty was interesting.
 
I said there is room for all opinions after I was over on the middle east post that med Clin said didn't belong... I think off topic is ok and not all that bad when BF news is in a lull.  cheers...
...................................................................................
 
"Please ignore my remarks"
..............................................
 
OK Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marks6555 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2006 at 12:27pm
On forums there will always be people who cry and whine about something so trivial as going off topic. That's because they can be "aggressive" and "safe" from behind their keyboards.

In most social conversations, including blogs, people tend to begin talking about one thing, then the topic changes and they talk about something else.

I began this topic so you can talk about whatever you want everyone! (if it's okay with admin of course)

Next topic...Aliens attacking Earth!


When the going gets weird, the weird turns pro. -HST
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jofg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2006 at 12:57pm
Originally posted by marks6555 marks6555 wrote:



Next topic...Aliens attacking Earth!


LOL
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There are no bans on travel in the US, therefore if the American public who travels the globe on personal and business reasons were to hear news elsewhere in the world that was not being reported the cat would be out of the bag. I have not had any problem finding tons of information on AF. If anything, the government may not be allowing the news media to make a Jon Bonet, Scott Peterson, OJ Simpson, Mel Gibson, Duke Blue Devil,  medica circus of it. For that I am greatful. Evidentely the rest of the world must be in collusion with the US. in keeping the secrets since no news is leaking out from any place else either. My husbands company travels back and forth from Vietnam, Thialand, Mexico, and China and guess what? They Have the BF and they dont even realize it. If we have it here, its not as deadly as they say, or we would see it. So implying that we are being kept in the dark, insults our country, we are not isolationist.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marks6555 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2006 at 11:24pm
the sun also rises
-hemingway
When the going gets weird, the weird turns pro. -HST
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lkay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2006 at 7:01am
I thought I saw something strange on my way to work this morning....Do you know something you're not telling us Mark?  Smile
 
Personally, I know all to well about weight problems. (problem  - that's what weight feels like to me anyway) It took agressive exercise and eating about half as much as I thought I wanted to lose the weight and build the muscle. It's a shame it cost so much more to eat right and then you have the convinence issue. You have to cook, darn it. Who wants to do that when you can run thru a drive in. Instant gratification! a very hard thing to give up....another thing hard to give up is that time when the alram clock goes off and you lie there telling yourself it's not THAT important to exercise...you can always do it later (knowing you want) I think of food as my own little addiction and it takes alot of internal fighting with myself to win the battle.  A battle alot of people don't understand...unless they have their own little addiction....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lkay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2006 at 7:20am
ok, after reading that again it sounded like I was whining....sorry.  Maybe I was. I'm a strong, hard working, fight for my family type woman, but food does have a way of getting the best of me sometimes. Like it's in control, not me. Reading the post about some of the children and the health prblems they have - that's when it gets tough. All I have to  conquer is some self discipline.
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