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Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic since 2005; Coronavirus COVID-19 Pandemic Discussion Forum.

Old Lives Matter (Too) !

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Dutch Josh View Drop Down
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    Posted: June 05 2020 at 7:05am

DJ-It is good there is action against police violence against "black people". Racism is damaging our society. But most old people are not able to defend themselves-especialy during this corona-crisis. Politics expect them "to stay at home" or in carecenters-in endless self-isolation. 

Not only in NL-but worldwide minorities, including "black people" and old people have to pay a high price for inaction by governments. While travel, restaurants reopen old people are supposed to still self isolate. Also people with chronic health problems are supposed to give up basic freedoms. 

In an emergency I think it is reasonable-for some time-to ask for some extra caution. But self-isolation for months is asking to much ! People of age, people with chronic health issues see basic right being violated. The balance is missing. 

How do people on this forum-some not that young-think of this ? Time to start an AFT-global initiative ? 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2020 at 9:12am

How do I feel?  Betrayed!

ERCD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2020 at 9:24am

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/political/new-york-cops-suspended-after-shoving-75-year-old-man-ground-viral-video[/url] DJ-Not only "black people" are treated as "second class", [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Untermensch[/url] also the old are quite often seen by politics as costly, expendable, "in the way". There is an overlap-and with that a common opponent. 

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqfFrCUrEbY[/url]


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EdwinSm, View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2020 at 10:54am

One of the issues for older folk is dementia.... I posted about how many more deaths were recorded in this category, in the UK, in this thread:  https://www.avianflutalk.com/dementia-during-time-of-corvid19_topic42892.html


This was one group of vulnerable old people that has been hard hit (in terms of excess deaths).  The number of deaths due to dementia but without corvid19 doubled in the pandemic weeks compared to average years.  It is too early to tell if this was due to them being left in the care homes when a trip to hospital might have saved their lives.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2020 at 11:14pm

The number of peope dying in care centers in the western world are extreme. Often HCW even with symptoms-without testing or PPE were told to "do their job". In a lot of countries deaths from carecenters seem to fall out of the Covid19 statistics-some of the death do not even get tested for Covid19. 

I (DJ) can not help getting very cynical on "how civilized countries deal with the old and chronically ill". They are put in isolation without the needed protection. 

Also relative healthy old people are sometimes forced into isolation:

[url]https://www.nhnieuws.nl/nieuws/268315/wim-89-ontvlucht-verzorgingshuis-en-moet-actie-bekopen-met-twee-weken-isolatie[/url]

After months of compulsory sitting in nursing home De Zandstee in 't Zand, 89-year-old Wim van Duin couldn't take it anymore last week. He took his bicycle and went for a ride at 6:30 in the morning. However, Wim was seen and had to pay for his action with two weeks of isolation. "He is completely through it. Is furious and sad at the same time," says his daughter Jolanda.

J
olanda does the talking for her father Wim van Duin (89), he is too sad to tell himself. Two years ago he ended up in the nursing home in 't Zand. His wife had dementia and he was no longer able to care for her at home. They were in this home for a little over a year when she passed away. Wim was able to live there and was happy despite the death of his wife.

The former farm worker took care of the garden of the care center and, despite his age, is still very sporty. "He cycled 25 kilometers every day," says Jolanda. "Unless the weather was bad, of course. He walked three miles a day and went to a fitness class once a week." Until the corona crisis broke out. Then suddenly he was literally confined to the house. Tricky, especially if you're still so fit. The nursing staff did what they could and brought the physiotherapist's exercise bike to his room. Otherwise it would stand still.

Perseverance
Wim seized the opportunity with both hands and at some point spent every quarter of an hour on the exercise bike. He also walked in his room: from the bedroom to the bathroom, the hallway and the living room. About 150 times every day. In the last laps he picked up two more weights of one kilo each and took them in his hand. "My father has a lot of perseverance," said Jolanda. "He wanted to keep moving, also with the idea that he would be able to go outside again soon. Then he wanted to be fit."
Although he has a positive attitude, he has started to get more and more difficult in recent weeks. "The staff did a lot: they walked through the hall singing and played bingo with the residents in the doorway. And there was already something more. He was allowed to visit the neighbors in the hallway and accompanied to the terrace. But he just wanted to get out independently. "

Last Monday he took his chance at 6:30 in the morning. He walked to the staff's bicycle shed, grabbed his bicycle and went for an hour's drive. However, someone had seen him and the healthcare institution intervened immediately. Wim had to be in isolation for two weeks and was back to square one. It cut it down a lot. "I see him as a broken man. Even when he was in hospital for his lungs, he was already walking around in his pajamas to build up his condition. But now he doesn't feel like doing anything anymore. -sad."

Customization
Jolanda calls on care centers and the government to provide custom solutions when it comes to corona rules, and not to clump all elderly people. "He feels treated like a small child. My father had not met anyone at all, moreover it was early in the morning. We also have to trust healthcare workers to follow the rules, so I think that must also be the case with the elderly. In addition, there are people who are fitter than others. So I think you shouldn't be strict with everyone. "

His children would have preferred to take him home temporarily, but that was not possible: he would have lost his room. Incidentally, Jolanda does not want to hear a bad word about the care staff. "They are doing their best to spice it up and take care of it as best they can." Isolation will be lifted tomorrow.

Woonzorggroep Samen says in a statement 'it is not possible to discuss individual cases'. But in addition, she also says: "If a client does not comply with the corona safety regulations, we are forced to take the interest of the group outweigh that of the individual. In order to protect the other residents and employees, we will comply the RIVM guidelines on a quarantine period. "


If you want to give Wim a heart, you can send him a card. His address is Wilhelminastraat 1 room C107, 1756 TH 't Zand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2020 at 2:46am

Originally posted by EdwinSm, EdwinSm, wrote:

One of the issues for older folk is dementia.... I posted about how many more deaths were recorded in this category, in the UK, in this thread:  https://www.avianflutalk.com/dementia-during-time-of-corvid19_topic42892.html


This was one group of vulnerable old people that has been hard hit (in terms of excess deaths).  The number of deaths due to dementia but without corvid19 doubled in the pandemic weeks compared to average years.  It is too early to tell if this was due to them being left in the care homes when a trip to hospital might have saved their lives.  

We've had a total of 22 deaths in NZ and almost all of them have been elderly people and 10 of them were from the same dementia unit in Christchurch. When the first one was diagnosed, they were all moved to Burwood hospital as a precaution, and even with the round the clock care, still 10 of them succumbed. They were in expert hands from the moment they were diagnosed and still they died. It appears that elderly people with dementia are particularly vulnerable.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2020 at 3:46am

Thanks for that reply KiwiMum.   

It looks as if everything NZ did was right by the people [well done NZ  ]  but they still died.     So that does not seem to be a set of deaths that can be attributed to society bias.  Maybe the blame could be down to poor health condition especially if they were near the end of life.  

I am on a forum that deals with a type of dementia that often leads to behavioural problems, such as uncontrolled eat of sweats, or general apathy that can lead to sleeping 20 or so hours a day, or lack of interest in basic hygiene.  I can see how these behaviours could lead to extra problems when Corvid is thrown into the mix.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2020 at 3:49am

The BBC reported on: Coronavirus: Care home residents face steep hike in fees        

In some cases fees rising by 15%.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2020 at 9:03am

This will be interesting to follow, as it involves the pressure put on care homes to take back patients with corvid-19 so hospital beds could be freed.

Originally posted by "BBC" "BBC" wrote:

A woman who said goodbye to her dying father through a care home window is suing the government over his death.

Dr Cathy Gardner's father, Michael Gibson, 88, died of probable Covid-19 related causes on 3 April.

Her case, which accuses the government of unlawfully exposing thousands of care home residents to serious harm, will be filed at the High Court today.

The Department for Health and Social Care said it could not comment on ongoing legal proceedings.

Dr Gardner, from Sidmouth, Devon, said her father's death was part of a "national disgrace".

She added her case was about everybody, including care home residents, staff and the family members of those who had been put at risk or died.

......

 Changing advice

....

Dr Gardner's lawyers claim that prior to his death the care home had been pressured into taking a hospital patient who had tested positive for Covid-19 but "had not had a temperature for about 72 hours".

Link to BBC report

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2020 at 12:22am

EdwinSM-good people are taking legal steps. Old people in nursing homes/care centers are often defenseless-easy prey. Here in NL things are not much better; [url]https://nltimes.nl/2020/06/10/nl-scaled-coronavirus-testing-faster-saved-lives-report[/url] ; In my opinion criminal neglect-hope some legel steps will be taken. at present our government claims to be doing a good job-while they mismanaged the outbreak from the beginning-even exporting PPE to China in february.

Despite the government repeatedly saying in debates, briefings, interviews and press conferences that there was insufficient coronavirus testing capacity in the Netherlands due to a lack of materials, laboratories had many more tests than were used in the first two months of the crisis, according to research by Nieuwsuur. If more tests had been done, lives could have been saved, those involved said to the program.

Nieuwsuur asked all 55 RIVM approved laboratories about their coronavirus testing capacity in March and April. More than 30 responded. Data provided by the labs showed that only half of the available tests were used in March, and only 30 percent in April. 

A number of laboratories told Nieuwsuur that they don't understand why they weren't deployed. "I always thought 'use us now'," said Esther Talboom, director of laboratory Saltro in Utrecht. "Because we are there, we are doing tests, we have a logistics network with normally 200 locations and we visit people at home and all vulnerable patients. Give us a role."

-

Healthcare administrators have been confused for months about why more healthcare personnel couldn't be tested while tests were available at laboratories. "This is not hindsight," Peter Hoppener of Noord-Brabant care organization Vivent said to the program. "The capacity of the laboratories was known." According to him, the surprise was not that there were tests available, but that they couldn't be used. "And the fact that corona actually occurs in nursing homes and in community nursing was already known too. And those two things together plus deliberately not testing nursing home staff, I find that scandalous." 

The consequences for healthcare organizations are huge, Hoppener said. Due to little testing, it was often not clear whether a ward or nursing home had an infected resident who needed to be isolated. "If you had done enough tests, you could have nursed people individually. Now you actually condemned a department to corona at such a moment," he said. The lack of testing also put stress on healthcare workers, who were unsure about whether there was corona on their ward, he said. "More testing could have prevented infections in our homes. And thus also deaths." Hoppener eventually bought tests directly from a lab for his own employees. 

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EdwinSm, View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2020 at 12:49am

For me the legal case in England revolves around how one treats infectious diseases.   


 It may well be true that some of the old people that were sent back to care homes may not need to have nursing care at the hospital level, but they were still carrying an infectious disease. Any infectious disease doctor should have been able to tell you that it was not a good move to send people who were still infected to care homes.


So much for the government's claim to have ring fenced the old and vulnerable.    


What might have been best, to protect both the care homes and to free up hospital beds, would have been to have a designated rehabilitation home, with less nursing staff, to care for people until the virus was cleared from their system.   Maybe there will be time to lay plans for this before the virus sweeps around again.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2020 at 9:30am

[url]https://www.gelderlander.nl/arnhem/92-jarige-arnhemmer-in-hongerstaking-zijn-eis-meer-bezoek-op-vaderdag~ae2d2f60/[/url] In local news a 92 y/o man goes on a one day hungerstrike demanding more visitors on fathersday-tomorrow-sunday in his carecenter. He is only allowed to have one visitor-one hour per week. 

[url]https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/06/families-threaten-legal-action-on-corona-care-home-policy-for-violation-of-human-rights/[/url] ;

A nursing home in Amsterdam has agreed to give its residents more freedom after the families threatened a court case for ‘violating’ their fundamental human rights. Human rights lawyer Liesbeth Zegveld told DutchNews.nl that the Amsta care home organisation has agreed to all of the access demands of families whose loved ones are at the Vondelstede home in Amsterdam. Meanwhile Zegveld and fellow lawyer Elles ten Vergert have threatened to take the Dutch government to court if it does not properly respect the freedoms of care home residents in its emergency rules to limit the spread of the coronavirus. ‘We have reduced people to objects in these homes and apparently it is very difficult to go back to a situation where we see them again as human beings with the same rights,’ Zegveld told DutchNews.nl. ‘Other liberties can be aligned with the right to good health: it is very possible.’ Rights She told the Nieuwsuur television programme that it is a question of fundamental human rights: people’s freedom to leave, the right to a family life, privacy, and the right to be fairly and humanely treated. Zegveld represents the client board of the Vondelstede home in Amsterdam, who have relatives living there, but have been concerned about limits to visits and restrictions on residents’ freedom of movement. Since then, relatives from at least three other care homes have asked Zegveld to represent them too.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2020 at 2:13am

One explanation for action that lead to a lot of deaths in care homes.  This virus behaved like no other coronavirus.  This news is from the UK.

Originally posted by "BBC Live News" "BBC Live News" wrote:

Health Secretary Matt Hancock told the BBC's Andrew Marr that the UK government had not known about asymptomatic transmission when patients were transferred from hospital to care homes en masse during the pandemic.

At the time, he said, asymptomatic transmission "was not known". "Because no other coronavirus transmits asymptomatically, is my understanding," he said. "This point about asymptomatic transmission was something the whole world was learning about in that period but we did not know about."

The health secretary said ministers had not known how many of those transferred from hospital to care homes had the coronavirus.

He also denied the government had sought to blame doctors for the decision to discharge patients from hospitals into care homes.


I suppose the surprise element lead of a lot of the early deaths in care homes.  At least we know now, and it should not be repeated

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