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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2020 at 4:21am

SheriAnne

I can't apologise for FluMom, but I can for not managing to prevent her outburst.

I am sorry that bit of nastiness was there for you to read.  It was offensive, divisive and racist.  I appologise again.

Although I can't in any way condone her language, I believe FluMom spoke in the  'heat of the moment' and I do not presume to fully understand all the underlying drives which prompted her to do it, maybe even against her own better judgement.  From the other side of the racial divide it can be hard to understand the deep hurt a 'throway line' can cause.  Her choice of words was abhorrent; that does not mean she, herself is.  She has been reprimanded.  Please could we now forgive and move on?

Please also forgive me for my failure to prevent it.  I am truly sorry.

ERCD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WillobyBrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2020 at 5:27am

Oh Dear!

So caucasians do not understand racism, WitchMisspelled?  Let me tell you something, all of you:  I will be 76 years old in a couple of months and I am genetically an Irish celt.  My nation of origin was conquered by the Anglo Saxon English approximately 400 years ago.  We were massacared, forbidden our native language, forbidden our religion, forbidden education and then teased for being stupid, tortued and executed for resistance to our overlords and finally our population was halved by fammine induced by the actions of the  British rulers.  In my lifetime, I have been called "Bog Irish", "Effing Paddy", "Thick Mick" and "Bloody cat-lick" (even though I am not one) and repetitavely discriminated against and been confronted with signs saying "No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish"*  When applying for housing and jobs.  Most of my friends are black, brown, oriental and of foreign origin in General. 

I was brought up in New Zealand from a toddler until I was 9 1/2.  I still choke up and get tears in my eyes when I look at news of earthquakes and the recent shootings that happened in Christchurch.  I was forced to lose my New Zealand accent when I came out of the Air Force by my family and circumstance.   My closest friends still call me Kiwi.   My dark skinned friends (Tee Hee) call me Honkey and when the lights came on in the local pub near where I used to live, after a power outage, they screamed and threw their hands over their eyes and made remarks about being blinded by the reflection from my skin.  I got my own back, by telling them to get up off of their lazy arses and get me a pint of Guinness before I had them whipped and sent back to the cotton fields.  

I have put my life on the line for those very men during a tunnel leak where we were working, that could have drowned us all.  When I collapsed at work with an ulcer, it was one of those black friends who picked me up like a child and ran 100 yards to the ambulance with me - UP SEVERAL FLIGHTS OF STAIRS! 

So, It is not what you say that matters.  It is context and intent.  I don't hate the English I do however refer to them as "Saxon Bastards" etc. when their politicians make stupid tactless and uncaring statements, or actions.  Fortunately that is no longer quite so common.

So, lets all thicken our skins up a little and try to behave in a more gentlemanly/ladylike fashion.  As KiwiMum suggested.






* My father became great friends with a black man who found him laughing at this sign outside a rooming house. 

 "What is so funny about that? asked his future friend.

"I'm Irish.  At least you come before the dog." he replied.

I like Ike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2020 at 7:17am

WillobyBrat.  What part of "vast majority" do you fail to understand?  Don't put words in my mouth.  It's not something I will tolerate.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote SheriAnn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2020 at 7:49am

Thank you all, I appreciate the sentiments. I am glad to know that the elephant in the room has been addressed. I have in my life prided myself on calling out things that I know are wrong, so I’m glad that we can all agree that it was inappropriate.

WillobyBrat, you are condoning blatant racism simply because that’s the way it’s always been. Even if the motive or intent behind it isn’t malicious, the language is still decisive, and it normalizes these words, so it is more casually used in malicious situations.

I’ll never be able to understand the challenges that a person of color has to live through. I do know as a woman, I have been talked over by men, personally and professionally, ignored when I speak only for men to turn around and act as if my idea was theirs. I have been the victim of sexual assault and abuse on more than one occasion. One time I was overpowered in a kitchen when I was 19, pinned down in the floor because I had been flirting with the guy and he thought that was what I wanted. I kept telling him no and finally he listened, but not until he had digitally assaulted me without consent. It physically hurt. I didn’t want it, I told him no, he didn’t listen. He was friends with everyone I was friends with so I had to act like it didn’t bother me to not make anyone else uncomfortable.

Women used to be expected to silently endure these things because men knew better. I couldn’t imagine living back then when it was normalized. When women didn’t get to vote, they didn’t get a say in their lives.

I was raised in a different world and I learned to stand up for what is wrong. I know my experiences are not the same as a person of color, and I don’t know what they have had to endure, but I can be an ally. Something as simple as telling a black person that “they don’t talk like a black person” or “how great you were able to get into a good school” while they sound harmless, like a compliment, they are still perpetuating racism. Just like when I was pinned down on that kitchen floor, I’m sure he doesn’t think of himself as a rapist. He didn’t actually rape me, right? He just shoved his hands down my pants without my consent because he thought he knew what I wanted. He didn’t.

I know this information wasn’t asked for and probably won’t do anything much to help, but we alll need to do our part to make life better for everyone. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2020 at 10:44am

We're all on the same page around here.   

Flumom tends to be candid, and when upset, and when possibly mixed at *happy hour time*  in this case lol, she made a very bad mistake out of anger.    I'm not convinced she is a racist, but she definitely went WAY overboard in making her point.   We all screw up, and no-doubt this was a very bad one.    I've never known her to be racist, but she is definitely known for saying things to get her point across.    

Having said that, of course there is still no excuse for it, regardless of maybe having a drink and in a bad mood, lol.  That is just speculation on my part.  I know I have said some off-the-wall things after a few too many.  

Anyway - we removed her as Moderator.   FM has also been a valuable member here for many years, and still not convinced she is racist.  We never know the stress each person is going through in life, and sometimes anger and stress boils over and we say things we weren't even close to meaning.   

Best to all,

A

       


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2020 at 2:47pm

I find everybody is a racist in some form or another.

Wether you mock someone because they,are,

 Tall,Short,Fat,Thin,wearing glasses,Bald ,Red hair,Blond hair,Disabled.....

Black,White ,Asian,.....

Some people will always pick on the underdog.....

Mainly because they feel so 

CRAP about their own NONE ,life

And  picking on someone else makes them feel so much better......

We are all a mixture 

Just go and have your DNA tested.

You may be supprised at what you are made of......

After all we all 

APES....some just not evolved as others....

I'd rather be a hybrid,

not and inbred.......














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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2020 at 3:00pm

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

SheriAnne

Although I can't in any way condone her language, I believe FluMom spoke in the  'heat of the moment' and I do not presume to fully understand all the underlying drives which prompted her to do it, maybe even against her own better judgement.  From the other side of the racial divide it can be hard to understand the deep hurt a 'throway line' can cause.  Her choice of words was abhorrent; that does not mean she, herself is.  She has been reprimanded.  Please could we now forgive and move on?

The one voice that's missing here is Flumom's. Everyone else is busy apologising except her. And she really should. I don't accept in the "heat of the moment" as an excuse because if that was the case, then, when she had calmed down, she would have edited her post and removed the racist comment. She didn't do that, nor has she explained herself or apologized. I can't see how we can move on from this until Flumom has accepted responsibility and apologized. If she doesn't then we're all just saying that it's fine and people can get away with it. And that's not right.

You can't fix stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2020 at 3:51pm

Dont hold your breath on that one....

She will never apologise,

never think she is in the wrong......

THAT TAKES A BIG PERSON....

She will disappear......


 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2020 at 1:58pm

Carbon, you were absolutely right. No apology and no one else calling for one. Let's just brush it under the carpet and let it go without anyone having to stand up and take responsibility for it. This kind of attitude makes my blood boil and I'm not at all surprised to see the riots in Minneapolis at the moment. For far too long America has allowed racism to live and breathe, and hopefully now they will be called to account. It's unacceptable.

You can't fix stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2020 at 2:04pm

The sad truth is that the U.S. hasn't been able to eradicate it since the Civil War.  Further exacerbated by "Blue Entitlement".  No, I am not knocking policemen.  I am deriding the attitude that enables some bad apples among our finest to thrive.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2020 at 2:17pm

Originally posted by KiwiMum KiwiMum wrote:

Carbon, you were absolutely right. No apology and no one else calling for one. Let's just brush it under the carpet and let it go without anyone having to stand up and take responsibility for it. This kind of attitude makes my blood boil and I'm not at all surprised to see the riots in Minneapolis at the moment. For far too long America has allowed racism to live and breathe, and hopefully now they will be called to account. It's unacceptable.

Protesting a wrong action is one thing, rioting, looting and arson are another. Time to call in the National Guard with some tanks and take care of the rabble illegally rioting, looting and burning businesses. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2020 at 3:11pm

I really don't think Carbon wants us to stop fighting racism - that really is not his style.  Tell him off for being blunt, rude, or even far too personal if you wish, but he is definitely not OK with any racism at all.  He speaks up for anyone he sees as getting a poor deal - often more forcefully than good manners allow.

Rather, I think he meant: "Stop hounding FluMom".  Not because she is exonnerated - or even forgiven, but because it is pointless and cruel.  If that is the case, I agree with him.  OK, so her outburst was vile; but, just for a second, put yourself in her shoes.  One minute she is a respected chief moderator, the next demoted and half the site has turned on her.  

She did wrong.  

We told her off. 

Now drop it please.  

This achieves nothing except upsetting an old lady.  There is way too much cruelty in the world already.  Don't add to it.

ERCD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2020 at 3:18pm

Oh, rioting looting and arson also fall into the "unnecessary cruelty" category, but here I have more sympathy.  There is a chance of change if protests are "loud" enough and America is a disgustingly racist country.  

Change never just happens, it has to be fought for.

ERCD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2020 at 3:37pm


I just meant Flumom will never come back on what's the point in talking to her?

Now the rant....


I'm will never condone racism....

My son in Law is a Black man, 

My daughter in law ,is a woman of Colour,

My mother born disabled,

Some of my good friends are Gay

And last but very not least my 

FARTHER WAS  JEW

the worse racist remark made to me was ,

"the trouble with the world is the Germans didn't kill enough of your lot off "

so please never accuse me of defending racisim

I was just trying to make a point that all people are bigots in some way or another, 

They have to be shouted down,but in doing so don't make yourself a Bigot.

Try and understand ,and use examples.

I Am an atheist ,as far as in concerned we all the same we

 ALL EVOLOVED ,FROM INTERBREEDING, 

NO RACE IS BETTER THAN ANOTHER.

A very good friend of mine, is half Nigerian half Irish,

He once said to me"you not a racist,just have opinons"

Go and talk to his mother, how married a BLACK MAN in 1955,she was followed by police and told not to mix with "that sort"

My father bought up in Eire, bashed by them good "CHRISTIAN" FOLKS....

SO AGAIN PLEASE DONT TALK TO ME ABOUT RACISM....

Also try migrating to another country like I did, 

Only to be called a POMMIE BASTARD,go back to where you belong.....

No I'm not a racist,

PM me and I'll give you a few phone numbers so you can confirm what I have written...

And don't worry I still love ya xx

Have a lovely day🖖😊

.


Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2020 at 4:11pm

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

Oh, rioting looting and arson also fall into the "unnecessary cruelty" category, but here I have more sympathy.  There is a chance of change if protests are "loud" enough and America is a disgustingly racist country.  

Change never just happens, it has to be fought for.

Let's be clear that was not a protest, they don't loot and burn shit to the ground at a protest. This was a lawless mob action breaking the rule of law for their own benefit. And they deserve neither sympathy nor quarter for their actions. And "loud" lawless actions like that are not going to get the change they are looking for. Save your sympathy for the victims of the mob, those whose businesses and homes were burned to the ground. Quite sure the National Guard will sort them out tonight. GO GUARD!!! HOOAH 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2020 at 5:01pm

Nice Place the USA


Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomSD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2020 at 6:57pm

AI, Agree, with you that burning, and looting is not the right thing to do.  But why on Tuesday were the protesters fire on with teargas and rubber bullet?  When there were recent protest here in San Diego about opening and letting people go back to work the police stood by, even though individuals were breaking laws (standing in vehicles with their upper bodies were outside the sun roof as they shouted and waved at passer-by) should have been pulled over immediately, but no.   How about the gun carrying people forcing there way into the capital building in Michigan?  Any one arrested? Does this not seem one sided on how the police response?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2020 at 7:00pm

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Originally posted by KiwiMum KiwiMum wrote:

Carbon, you were absolutely right. No apology and no one else calling for one. Let's just brush it under the carpet and let it go without anyone having to stand up and take responsibility for it. This kind of attitude makes my blood boil and I'm not at all surprised to see the riots in Minneapolis at the moment. For far too long America has allowed racism to live and breathe, and hopefully now they will be called to account. It's unacceptable.

Protesting a wrong action is one thing, rioting, looting and arson are another. Time to call in the National Guard with some tanks and take care of the rabble illegally rioting, looting and burning businesses. 

It's time to arrest that police officer for racially aggravated murder and the 3 other attending officers for aiding and abetting him. If they were called to account, I suspect the looting would stop.

You can't fix stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2020 at 7:03pm

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

I really don't think Carbon wants us to stop fighting racism - that really is not his style.  Tell him off for being blunt, rude, or even far too personal if you wish, but he is definitely not OK with any racism at all.  He speaks up for anyone he sees as getting a poor deal - often more forcefully than good manners allow.

Rather, I think he meant: "Stop hounding FluMom".  Not because she is exonnerated - or even forgiven, but because it is pointless and cruel.  If that is the case, I agree with him.  OK, so her outburst was vile; but, just for a second, put yourself in her shoes.  One minute she is a respected chief moderator, the next demoted and half the site has turned on her.  

She did wrong.  

We told her off. 

Now drop it please.  

This achieves nothing except upsetting an old lady.  There is way too much cruelty in the world already.  Don't add to it.

Techno, what are you talking about? I was responding to Carbons post that said she wouldn't apologise, and he was right. I don't think he's racist. Far from it. I wasn't telling him off. Re read his post, and then mine. As for him saying stop hounding Flumom, I don't think he was saying that. And as for her apologizing, I think she should. What she said was unacceptable and inexcusable. There's no getting round that.

You can't fix stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2020 at 7:11pm

Originally posted by carbon20 carbon20 wrote:


I just meant Flumom will never come back on what's the point in talking to her?

Now the rant....


I'm will never condone racism....

My son in Law is a Black man, 

My daughter in law ,is a woman of Colour,

My mother born disabled,

Some of my good friends are Gay

And last but very not least my 

FARTHER WAS  JEW

the worse racist remark made to me was ,

"the trouble with the world is the Germans didn't kill enough of your lot off "

so please never accuse me of defending racisim

I was just trying to make a point that all people are bigots in some way or another, 

They have to be shouted down,but in doing so don't make yourself a Bigot.

Try and understand ,and use examples.

I Am an atheist ,as far as in concerned we all the same we

 ALL EVOLOVED ,FROM INTERBREEDING, 

NO RACE IS BETTER THAN ANOTHER.

A very good friend of mine, is half Nigerian half Irish,

He once said to me"you not a racist,just have opinons"

Go and talk to his mother, how married a BLACK MAN in 1955,she was followed by police and told not to mix with "that sort"

My father bought up in Eire, bashed by them good "CHRISTIAN" FOLKS....

SO AGAIN PLEASE DONT TALK TO ME ABOUT RACISM....

Also try migrating to another country like I did, 

Only to be called a POMMIE BASTARD,go back to where you belong.....

No I'm not a racist,

PM me and I'll give you a few phone numbers so you can confirm what I have written...

And don't worry I still love ya xx

Have a lovely day🖖😊

.


Was this aimed at me? I don't think you are racist. I was simply agreeing with you that nothing more would be done about this and everyone was happy to let it slide. Perhaps it's a Southern hemisphere think, but I think you and I are the least racist people on here. I think that the kind of attitude that tolerates endemic racism within a population is exactly why people are rioting in Minneapolis right now. What they need to do is to arrest those officers and charge them with murder because that's what it was. Thank heavens for mobile phones and that people can record what happens and post it.

You can't fix stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2020 at 7:17pm

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

This achieves nothing except upsetting an old lady.  There is way too much cruelty in the world already.  Don't add to it.

I hear what you're saying but just look at the line I'm quoting from you. What she said was incredibly damaging and unacceptable and I'd argue that yes, there is way too much cruelty in the world already but also that allowing someone to get away with such behaviour is adding to it. 

I'm not calling for Flumom to be hounded off this site, but an adult should stand up and admit their mistakes. They should take responsibility for them and then apologise for them. Everyone else is busy apologising for her but as yet we haven't heard from Flumom, and that tells me that she's not sorry for using the N word, that she doesn't think she's done anything wrong, and that secretly she was justified in doing so. That's the problem I have with this.

You can't fix stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2020 at 9:12pm







No Kiwimum,not aimed at you, Just putting the record straight,as to why I'm not a racist,and maybe making others just think that are,who some how think they superior because their skin has evolved to absorb more sunlight to make vitamin D in a land without much sunlight.....

Ignorance at its best.....

Can't fix stupid....

😉🖖



Disgusted at watching George Floyd,

murdered on camera......

The folks there are totally justified in protesting,i don't agree with the burning and violence...

But calling out armed national guard,only going to be more trouble,

This is American......

"The Right to bear arms"

Reap what you sow..

.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2020 at 9:46pm

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Let's be clear that was not a protest, they don't loot and burn shit to the ground at a protest. This was a lawless mob action breaking the rule of law for their own benefit. And they deserve neither sympathy nor quarter for their actions. And "loud" lawless actions like that are not going to get the change they are looking for. Save your sympathy for the victims of the mob, those whose businesses and homes were burned to the ground. Quite sure the National Guard will sort them out tonight. GO GUARD!!! HOOAH 



I can't imagine being part of a demographic that can be slowly and painfully killed on the street in broad daylight, while being filmed by multiple witnesses who are pleading with the police officers who are doing it. Maybe they should do something peaceful and see how that works, right? Maybe taking a knee during the anthem will highlight the problem. No, wait...



 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 29 2020 at 5:15am

Originally posted by carbon20 carbon20 wrote:

Disgusted at watching George Floyd,

murdered on camera......

The folks there are totally justified in protesting,i don't agree with the burning and violence...

But calling out armed national guard,only going to be more trouble,

This is American......

"The Right to bear arms"

Reap what you sow..



This issue has absolutely nothing to do with "The right to bear arms". This issue is about the militarization of the police. This is about "blue entitlement". A mentality that developed in "bad apples" in our finest decades ago... even before any of us were born.

What happened to George Floyd has happened everywhere. Even in NYC (Eric Garner). There wasn't any rioting after Garner's death. There were organized protests. I don't know what the difference is between what's happening now and what happened then in terms of protests, except that before there were organized protests and marches in NYC, the police did not fire tear gas into the crowds. The police and local authorities did everything they could to diffuse tensions instead of just siccing police on protesters. Maybe New York educated their cops better when they militarized them than elsewhere. I just don't know.

I am heartsick at what's happening in Minneapolis.  The protesters, rioters and looters are destroying their own homes.  From what I can see, the police did more to fan the flames than put them out.  Their frustration level at the brutality they experience every day must be at a level where they just don't care anymore.  I say this about both sides of the conflict.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 29 2020 at 10:25am

I think I got the wrong end of the stick there, KiwiMum. Sorry.

I can't see FluMom apologising, she probably does not even realise how offensive that post was.  But, for all her faults, I'm a bit fond of her. You can accuse me of bad taste if you wish, but I am and I imagine the backlash was as bruising for her as the post itself was for some readers.

It can be a hard line to walk trying to keep everyone happy.  I'm exhausted!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 29 2020 at 1:55pm

I just meant ,if everyone can carry a weapon things could get out of hand real quick if the national guard start shooting, 

others with....

 "a right to bear arms" .....

might shoot back....

maybe with better weapons than the NG.....just saying.....

I find it all very sad when we fighting the 

WU...



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 29 2020 at 2:08pm

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

What happened to George Floyd has happened everywhere. Even in NYC (Eric Garner). There wasn't any rioting after Garner's death. There were organized protests. I don't know what the difference is between what's happening now and what happened then in terms of protests, except that before there were organized protests and marches in NYC, the police did not fire tear gas into the crowds. The police and local authorities did everything they could to diffuse tensions instead of just siccing police on protesters. Maybe New York educated their cops better when they militarized them than elsewhere. I just don't know.

I am heartsick at what's happening in Minneapolis.  The protesters, rioters and looters are destroying their own homes.  From what I can see, the police did more to fan the flames than put them out.  Their frustration level at the brutality they experience every day must be at a level where they just don't care anymore.  I say this about both sides of the conflict.  

It's just awful isn't it? The problem is that peaceful protests make no difference. Eric Garner should have been the last black man unlawfully killed but he wasn't. All they had to do in Minneapolis was to arrest those police officers and charge at least one of them with murder, and the others with being accessories. In this day of mobile phone cameras, the police just can't get away with this sort of thing any more. 

The authorities - including the president - need to stand up and say that all people are equal, and  mean it. There is obviously a culture in the US that doesn't believe that. That, to some extent, black people are worth slightly less than white, that they are expendable. Can you imagine what would have happened if it were four black cops killing a white man? There would have been an uproar across the whole country, starting with Trump on Twitter. At least these protests are getting the news coverage.

You can't fix stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 29 2020 at 2:17pm

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

I think I got the wrong end of the stick there, KiwiMum. Sorry.

I can't see FluMom apologising, she probably does not even realise how offensive that post was.  But, for all her faults, I'm a bit fond of her. You can accuse me of bad taste if you wish, but I am and I imagine the backlash was as bruising for her as the post itself was for some readers.

It can be a hard line to walk trying to keep everyone happy.  I'm exhausted!

Thanks Techno. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 29 2020 at 2:17pm









https://youtu.be/Web007rzSOI

Nothing has changed 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 29 2020 at 2:34pm

That cop in Minneapolis has been charged with murder. I've started a new thread and posted the link in Latest News. Thank heavens some common sense at last.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 29 2020 at 2:41pm

the phrase"looting and shooting "is new to me.....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 29 2020 at 2:46pm



Let's just hope this a Big Changing point in American society....

Something needs to change......

NEEDS A REAL LEADER TO STEP UP .....






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 29 2020 at 3:27pm

Don't hold your breath!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flubergasted Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 29 2020 at 3:49pm

I think the current generation of political elders has made themselves obsolete.  They are too old to change, and they are set in their ways.  I see them the same way I see my dementia patients.  You can appreciate and care for them in spite of their generational foibles, but it is too late to rewrite their history.  They are who they are, which is the reason our elder politicos need to move out of the way.  Let the younger generation take on the leadership roles.

I also think our two party system is now obsolete.  Seems like both parties are run by the wingnuts.  Our country desperately needs a viable third party led by moderates.  

What I wouldn't give right now to have former Senator Bill Frist as our president...doctor, business man, experienced leader.  I wish he would run.  Unfortunately, he meant what he said about the need for term limits.  He left politics and shows no interest in returning.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cindylouflu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 29 2020 at 4:18pm

Yes Exactly Flubergasted!  It's time to pass the torch to younger problem solvers and ditch the crazy ideologies.   Our leadership looks like a nursing home.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 29 2020 at 4:18pm

Originally posted by TomSD TomSD wrote:

AI, Agree, with you that burning, and looting is not the right thing to do.  But why on Tuesday were the protesters fire on with teargas and rubber bullet?  When there were recent protest here in San Diego about opening and letting people go back to work the police stood by, even though individuals were breaking laws (standing in vehicles with their upper bodies were outside the sun roof as they shouted and waved at passer-by) should have been pulled over immediately, but no.   How about the gun carrying people forcing there way into the capital building in Michigan?  Any one arrested? Does this not seem one sided on how the police response?

Well when you attack a police precinct you are lucky if they only use tear gas and marker/rubber bullets like on Tuesday. And as far as Michigan those protesters were within their legal rights and did not break any laws otherwise you can be sure the cops would have made arrest's. San Diego no Idea why they were not ticketed other than it's a minor infraction and maybe there were too many. But when you cross the line from legally protesting to lawless rioting, arson and looting you'r not a protester you'r a criminal and your actions don't have anything to do with protesting a wrong.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 29 2020 at 4:42pm

Originally posted by jacksdad jacksdad wrote:

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Let's be clear that was not a protest, they don't loot and burn shit to the ground at a protest. This was a lawless mob action breaking the rule of law for their own benefit. And they deserve neither sympathy nor quarter for their actions. And "loud" lawless actions like that are not going to get the change they are looking for. Save your sympathy for the victims of the mob, those whose businesses and homes were burned to the ground. Quite sure the National Guard will sort them out tonight. GO GUARD!!! HOOAH 



I can't imagine being part of a demographic that can be slowly and painfully killed on the street in broad daylight, while being filmed by multiple witnesses who are pleading with the police officers who are doing it. Maybe they should do something peaceful and see how that works, right? Maybe taking a knee during the anthem will highlight the problem. No, wait...



 

You think this kind of police action only happens to black american's? You think it doesn't happen to latino americans, asian americans, native american's or caucasian's for that matter? So your saying the means justifies the end and lawlessness and violence is the answer?  I doubt those black business and home owners who lost their homes and businesses to the lawless mob agree with you or anyone else who lost property to the lawless mob as well.  And since when did personal gain via looting and stealing help any cause, other than the individual criminal? Are they looting for the memory of Floyd and for change? Or are they looting for themselves and just taking advantage of the situation?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 29 2020 at 6:39pm

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

You think this kind of police action only happens to black american's? You think it doesn't happen to latino americans, asian americans, native american's or caucasian's for that matter? So your saying the means justifies the end and lawlessness and violence is the answer?  I doubt those black business and home owners who lost their homes and businesses to the lawless mob agree with you or anyone else who lost property to the lawless mob as well.  And since when did personal gain via looting and stealing help any cause, other than the individual criminal? Are they looting for the memory of Floyd and for change? Or are they looting for themselves and just taking advantage of the situation?

It's a case of rage against the machine. Someone wise (and I want to say Mark Twain but I might be wrong) said that in order for society to continue, the common man must have a vested interest in it, and therefore he must be able to own property. If he doesn't or can't own property then the status quo will end. That's not an actual quote as I can't remember the words, but it's the gist of it. 

We have younger generations who can no longer get on the property ladder and that's just the tip of the iceberg. They don't have a voice and they aren't listened to. More and more people are disenfranchised from society and the death of George Floyd is just the proverbial straw that broke the camels back. No, rioting isn't right. No, it isn't just because a black man was murdered by a white cop, it's the frustration of millions of people who are not listened to, who are in poverty despite working long hours, who have lifestyle images rammed down their throats from every billboard and every twitter feed and know full well that they'll never have those things in their lives, go on those trips, have a beach house. 

In Jared Diamond's book Collapse, he found that the common factor in about 30 societies that collapsed in history was that the gap between rich and poor had grown too wide. Well look at us now. It's never been bigger. The revolution is coming and if all you can see is the current rioting then you're looking in the wrong direction.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 29 2020 at 6:40pm

Originally posted by KiwiMum KiwiMum wrote:

That cop in Minneapolis has been charged with murder. I've started a new thread and posted the link in Latest News. Thank heavens some common sense at last.

To paraphrase Technophobe... Don't hold your breath that it'll go anywhere near justice.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2020 at 3:06am

Thanks Witchy!

I meant, don't hold your breath waiting for an American 'leader'.  But that interpretation works even better!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote BeachMama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2020 at 10:21pm

I have been gone a few days due to personal matters, and I came back to this.

I am aghast.


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