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PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
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Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

Prepping IV’s ...
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lion of judah View Drop Down
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Points: 39 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lion of judah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Prepping IV’s ...
    Posted: August 25 2006 at 7:27pm
Is it possible to prep IV saline solution and the infusion sets?
 
We have a Type 1 diabetic son and since he was diagnosed 4 years ago. He has thrown up 3 times. The first time we endded up in Children Hosp in Norfolk, next time we endded up on the phone every hour and a half to the doctor to watch and see if he needed to come in, last time we endded up at Johns Hopkins. Throwing up is very bad for a type 1, with our son once he starts he doesn't stop, gets dehyrated, and needs fluids. ONce he receives fluids he is fine. I was thinking I should keep thesse on hand if I could anyways.
 
But how hard is it to learn to give an IV? 
 
Thanks
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700renegade View Drop Down
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Points: 38 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 700renegade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2006 at 10:34pm
I can do one in a cow lickety-split.
 
I'm not out much if they end up dying though.
 
I'd want to be sure there were no other options before I tried it on my kids.
 
My littlest guy was in the hospital for some respiratory deal ( RSV ) last winter.  They had him on an IV of the exact same fluid ( I forget the name ) as I buy for my cattle from the vet.  I bet I buy it for about 100x cheaper than the hospital charged though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2006 at 11:31pm
Same with antibiotics. Cheaper and the same stuff. If you have time, check and see if you can find the name of the fulid. Thanks
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Points: 30 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote femvet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2006 at 5:12pm
Lion, the trick is to learn to lay the IV. It takes lots of poroper training and practice. Do not attempt this without training! A better solution might be extra testing and keep plenty of hydration fluids on hand. You can even make them yourself, simple solution of water, sugar and salt.
Namaste
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Points: 49 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randyb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2006 at 10:43am
As an EMT-A, I can start and maintain an IV in the field under a doctors orders.  This is not something that you want to be trying out.  You need to be trained and be able to ID if things go wrong with the IV.  It is not terribly difficult to get an IV started on a healthy indiviudal, but when they are sick, dehydrated and such, it is not an easy task.  You would be better off taking an EMT-B, or LPN training and building from there.
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Points: 145 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jknoel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2006 at 12:31pm
You absolutely need to be trained and certified to perform such a procedure.  Think logically, how many problems will arise when it is done wrong? And even trained nurses, doctors, etc. don't always get it right.
The only way to grow is to take a chance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2006 at 12:54pm
Oral Rehydration Salts are the best alternative and a superior choice if you are not trained or if your child is alone.

ADVENTURE MEDICAL Oral Rehydration Salts

$7.00
ADVENTURE MEDICAL Oral Rehydration Salts
ADVENTURE MEDICAL Oral Rehydration Salts

Guard against dehydration due to intestinal problems, vomiting, and heat exhaustion by rehydrating with these rehydration salts.

  • Lemon-flavored oral electrolyte designed to effectively correct or prevent dehydration
  • Also contains glucose, which enhances the body's ability to quickly absorb fluids
  • For medical kit refills, 2 packages, packages weigh 1.78 ounces
  • A must for international travelers
These may be obtained from any sporting goods company

I found these at Eastern Mountain Sports
http://www.ems.com/catalog/product_detail_square.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442110629&emssrcid=adwords_oral+rehydration+salts
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Points: 38 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 700renegade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2006 at 11:11pm
Moutainwinds,  the IV fluid I get from my vet is "Lactated Ringers Injection, SC".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2006 at 8:35am
lionofjudah, I also have a son who's Type I diabetic.  Do you use phenargan when he first throws up?  We keep a supply on hand -suppositories, but it also comes in tablets.  This has been effective with him so far (diagnosed 3 years ago), even when he had the flu.  Our doc's instructions are if he throws up more than once to go to the emergency room, but we haven't had to do that (knock on wood). 
 
Have you been able to stock up on insulin & supplies? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2006 at 9:12am
Thanks 7. I have medical supplies out the wazoo, but have not been able to find IVs for a while. Those I have were way out of date. Thanks again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2006 at 10:13am

700, are you rehydrating subcutaneously or intravenously?  It's done both ways with animals....
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700renegade View Drop Down
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Points: 38 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 700renegade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2006 at 10:54am
I usually put in 0.5L subcutaneously in the neck for young calves w/ scours or other problems.  If they need IV then I wasn't paying enough attention.  The tail-head of a larger cow is a great spot for IV drugs, but never had a reason to try rehydrating anything large. 
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Points: 333 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote janetn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2006 at 6:39pm
IVs are not for laypeople To many things can go wrong. Very wrong
 
The phenagren idea is a great one! Also you could try rehydrating rectally in a dire emergency. Dr woodsons book has something on this I think. Could someone who has the book please check.
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lion of judah View Drop Down
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Points: 39 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lion of judah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2006 at 6:58pm
I have never heard of phenagren, what is it?
 
Yes, we have been able to get about 9 months supply of pump supplies and 3 to 4 months of insulin.  But it has been slow
 
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Originally posted by lion of judah lion of judah wrote:

I have never heard of phenagren, what is it?
 
Yes, we have been able to get about 9 months supply of pump supplies and 3 to 4 months of insulin.  But it has been slow
 
 
Its an antiemetic [ aka anti nausea ] drug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2007 at 8:53pm
I would love to be able to find phenergen suppostitories but I think this is a prescription drug isn't it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2007 at 9:20pm
How about an oral rehydration solution.
The simplest formula is 3 Tablespoons of sugar, and 1 teaspoon of salt, dissolved in 1 quart of potable water.


An alternative simple formula is 8 teaspoons of sugar, and 1 teaspoon of salt, dissolved in 1 quart of potable water.
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Points: 240 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VtDoc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2007 at 8:19am
I agree with the general opinion here: it is best to control the nausea, then hydrate orally. 
 
Most anti-emetics (nausea meds) are by prescription.  These can come in oral form (pills or liquid), rectal suppositories, and injectable (can be IV or IM).  Depending on your physician, you may be able to get some to have on hand.  If this isn't an option, meclizine (brand name Bonine) is an over-the-counter motion sickness tablet that is fairly effective for nausea from any cause.  In a non-vomiting patient who is otherwise able to drink, oral rehydration works almost as well as IV, and it still works when all the hospitals are closed.
 
However, I generally disagree that there is a tremendous risk associated with placing a peripheral IV (central lines are obviously different), especially when the alternative may be fatal.  The biggest "risk" is that it won't work well, but I think many people could learn how to do it, with proper instructional material.  I've seen lots of medical/nursing students placing IVs after very brief instruction, and while I've seen a lot of non-functional results, I've never seen anyone in life-threatening acute danger--which is the situation we'd be talking about.
 
Of course, my first (and safest) recommendation would be to access your local health care system, but what if it's overwhelmed and non-functional in some way?
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