I have worked as consulting Infection Control Coordinator for one of the largest hospitals in Chicago, and I have a favor to ask of everyone in AFT. 

Many of us have discussed our preparation for pandemic for years, including stockpiling of personal protective equipment (PPE) such as disposable masks, N95 masks/respirators, gloves etc. 

All of our hospitals and healthcare facilities worldwide are facing patient overload and desperately need these PPE materials.  If you have them, please donate them to the healthcare facility of your choice. 

The PPE won't prevent you from becoming ill unless you are caring for a relative or patient with COVID-19.   Keep a few masks if it makes you feel better, but these do you no good when you are outside, in public, on the subway etc.  Viruses don't work that way...if you catch COVID-19, it will most likely be from touching a contaminated surface and then touching your face or eyes.   Your risk of aerosol transmission is primarily in a healthcare setting, taking care of a patient with COVID-19. 

Thank you, you may save the life of a nurse or doctor with your donation.  Sincerely, Chuck 

I've already offered some masks to my doctor who has none and the local health board are unable to supply any. She's going to give me a call when she needs them.

I bought a couple boxes of masks a few months ago (before they sold out). I bought them for my dad when he was listed to receive a lung transplant (which he just had done 3 weeks ago). I sent a few to my cousin who was just diagnosed with stage 4 pancreatic cancer. She started her chemo yesterday. 

Donating to hospitals is a great thing to do, but also keep in mind that people with suppressed immune systems (transplant recipients and chemo patients) also can't get these masks. The doctors have none to give them. Many still have to go to the hospital for their appointments whether they want to or not. Without a mask they don't stand a chance because they have no immune system. Doctors are cancelling appointments as much as possible but some cases can't be cancelled. My cousin will not survive the next few months without chemo. My dad has to go in to see his transplant team as he just received his transplant. Neither has a choice but to go.

We need to stop mask shaming. There's people like my relatives who have had doctors and surgeons tell them they specifically should be wearing a mask but they dont want to because of all this mask shaming. These are people without immune systems that are being made to feel like they're killing doctors because they have a mask. If they could stay home and not go out they would happily stay home and not go. 

So yes, donate to doctors and nurses, please do. It's very important. But also please don't make someone feel like they are a terrible human being because you see them wearing a mask. Don't treat them like they are a murderer. You dont know if they are on chemo or other immune suppressants. Everyone just needs to stop. 

socalmom wrote: I bought a couple boxes of masks a few months ago (before they sold out). I bought them for my dad when he was listed to receive a lung transplant (which he just had done 3 weeks ago). I sent a few to my cousin who was just diagnosed with stage 4 pancreatic cancer. She started her chemo yesterday.  Donating to hospitals is a great thing to do, but also keep in mind that people with suppressed immune systems (transplant recipients and chemo patients) also can't get these masks. The doctors have none to give them. Many still have to go to the hospital for their appointments whether they want to or not. Without a mask they don't stand a chance because they have no immune system. Doctors are cancelling appointments as much as possible but some cases can't be cancelled. My cousin will not survive the next few months without chemo. My dad has to go in to see his transplant team as he just received his transplant. Neither has a choice but to go. We need to stop mask shaming. There's people like my relatives who have had doctors and surgeons tell them they specifically should be wearing a mask but they dont want to because of all this mask shaming. These are people without immune systems that are being made to feel like they're killing doctors because they have a mask. If they could stay home and not go out they would happily stay home and not go.  So yes, donate to doctors and nurses, please do. It's very important. But also please don't make someone feel like they are a terrible human being because you see them wearing a mask. Don't treat them like they are a murderer. You dont know if they are on chemo or other immune suppressants. Everyone just needs to stop.

Thanks, an important post!  When I was Infection Control Coordinator for NWH Feinberg in Chicago, we had to protect heart/lung transplant patients and others who had NO immune systems at all - they were all vulnerable due to anti-rejection drugs. 

I have a young relative who has a kidney transplant, and if he catches COVID-19 (not unlikely), he's a goner.  I think of that all the time. 

Given that, far too many people hogged up the supply of masks, gloves, gowns, and other PPE for no good reason at all.  As a hospital infection control officer, I know what these clinics and hospitals are going through.  None of us would mask-shame a legitimate case like your relatives, and we have ways that we recognize such cases (many are in wheelchairs, have intubation scars etc.). 

There is a fine line between prepping and just dumb hoarding.  If we have masks and PPE to give, please do so.  The life you save may be a doctor or nurse, it is that serious. 

I'm sure you all see stories like these:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-pandemic-threatens-hospitals-stretched-thin-medical-supplies-n95-masks/ - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-pandemic-threatens-hospitals-stretched-thin-medical-supplies-n95-masks/

My mask were bought in 2006. I guess they are expired but that doesnt bother me. I doubt a hospital could take expired masks. By buying so long ago I placed no burden on the system now, even supported manufacturers so they could make more. Yes, shaming should stop. No one knows another persons situation. The gov tells us that masks are inneffective but doctors need them. Sounds like bs. They failed to prepare when all of us here knew what was coming for years. 

Lakeman5 wrote: My mask were bought in 2006. I guess they are expired but that doesnt bother me. I doubt a hospital could take expired masks. By buying so long ago I placed no burden on the system now, even supported manufacturers so they could make more. Yes, shaming should stop. No one knows another persons situation. The gov tells us that masks are inneffective but doctors need them. Sounds like bs. They failed to prepare when all of us here knew what was coming for years.

Masks have two main purposes - (a) protect healthcare workers from active cases when they are treating them face-to-face, and (b) protect patients in surgery from HCW who might breath/spit onto an open wound.  Another use, less frequent, is to isolate the exhalation of an active case during home treatment. 

Masks are useless in preventing environmental illness....the main route of COVID-19, and other respiratory infections, is ingestion of residue from fingertips.   Fecal/oral route is increasingly looking like a major route of infection....in which case, wear your masks on your hands.  

Hospitals are so desperate that they are using bandanas.  They know how to repurpose masks that have expired....many masks stored in the strategic national stockpile are past expiration. 

Here, read this:  https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/mask-respirators/ppe-shortages-hamper-covid-19-containment-endanger-healthcare-workers - https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/mask-respirators/ppe-shortages-hamper-covid-19-containment-endanger-healthcare-workers

From the University of Illinois at Chicago Medical Center, where I teach:

Wear a facemask if you are sick

• If you are sick: You should wear a facemask when you are around other people (e.g., sharing a room or vehicle) and before you enter a healthcare provider’s office. If you are not able to wear a facemask (for example, because it causes trouble breathing), then you should do your best to cover your coughs and sneezes, and people who are caring for you should wear a facemask if they enter your room. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/if-you-are-sick/steps-when-sick.html" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(7, 82, 144); text-decoration: underline; background-color: transparent; - Learn what to do if you are sick.
• If you are NOT sick: You do not need to wear a facemask unless you are caring for someone who is sick (and they are not able to wear a facemask). Facemasks may be in short supply and they should be saved for caregivers.

I have one box of 50 surgical-style masks that I’ve been keeping aside. Would these be useful for health care practitioners? 

Don't know about surgical masks,  I am giving N95 masks.

I don’t have any N95s — only the surgical ones. 

They need all types of masks now. They are sewing their own and using bandanas at some hospitals. I had a list sent to me for a PPE drive in Denver and they are taking any masks they can get. 

Gdeb, my masks and Dupont QC Tyvek suits are going to a clinic my good friends daughter works at they are testing.  She said they were having to reuse masks...this is a girl I love have know her since she was little.  Not a problem giving up my PPE to help her and all her medical friends at work.  I told her they were out of date but they don't care.  They did not need gloves so they must have plenty of those.  WE THE PEOPLE will stand up and fight this virus and WE WILL WIN!

FluMom wrote: Gdeb, my masks and Dupont QC Tyvek suits are going to a clinic my good friends daughter works at they are testing.  She said they were having to reuse masks...this is a girl I love have know her since she was little.  Not a problem giving up my PPE to help her and all her medical friends at work.  I told her they were out of date but they don't care.  They did not need gloves so they must have plenty of those.  WE THE PEOPLE will stand up and fight this virus and WE WILL WIN!

Bless your heart, FluMom and everyone!   Donations of PPE and masks are making national news headlines, and AFT is making a difference!  The life you save may be your doctor's or nurse's!!  

https://www.sfweekly.com/news/medical-students-call-on-public-to-donate-masks-to-local-hospitals/ - https://www.sfweekly.com/news/medical-students-call-on-public-to-donate-masks-to-local-hospitals/

With a national shortage of personal protective equipment – such as N95 respiratory masks and regular surgical masks – UCSF medical students have organized donation drives to accept equipment from the public. Students will be at 18th and Dolores streets from 10 a.m. to 3 p.m. through at least Sunday, they say.

“We’re hoping to engage the community and protect our medical professionals on the front line,” says Francis Wright, a third-year medical student.

The public may have N95 masks left over from wildfire season, or they may have purchased masks at the start of the outbreak before it was clear there was going to be a shortage, Wright says.

Supplies of PPE at UCSF Medical Center and hospitals around the country have been dwindling.

Hey Chuck, quick question for you...  does wearing an ordinary everyday dust/particulate mask help? 

I'm talking about for a sick person to wear to avoid spreading droplets?   I always have dust masks around (I use them for when cleaning barns as my lungs aren't great and they help with the dust), and thinking they tend to fit tighter to face then a surgical mask does... they are way cheaper then N95, might still be available in hardware stores etc. if they are of any use for the positive test family member a person needs to care for, or for a possible case (or any type of coughing/sneezing) to go to a testing station or clinic.

I do realize that prevention of catching virus wise they are useless (not fine enough weave) but wondering if they'd be better then nothing for avoiding spread?  A person could maybe lightly mist the inside with vinegar or dust with citric acid or something too?  

I can't speak for Chuck, but here is my take.

Even an N95 or an FFP3 does not stop all viral particles - just most of them.  The finer the weave, the greater proportion stopped.  The immune system mops up the rest and only surcumbs if there is a big enough viral load. (The battlefield analogy works well here.   A small invasion force is easily taken down, but a 'D Day Landing' is hard to fight off.)

The masks would supply quite a bit of protection just as they are.  

If it were me, I would soak muslin in vinegar or citric acid solution and allow to dry thoroughly and wear over the mask.  The microscopic crystals that then covered the muslin would be inimical to the viral particles too, but the weave of the mask itself would be undisturbed.

I was inspired by this thread to call my local hospital to see if I could donate my n95s. The woman put me on hold to go check. When she came back she was very unenthusiastic but said they would take them. She later revealed that no one knew what the policy was and they were just going to put them on a shelf to see what mught happen.  Well I have rwo kids who mught be high risk (i cant figure out uf they are or not - they are type 1). So Im gonna hold on to these and call the hospital back after things tick up here.  (Sorry about the spelling but when i type on this site I cant see what Im typing)

You are doing the right thing Lakeman.  I am donating because my friends daughter I trust and they are on the front lines testing TODAY!  They are having to reuse their masks so my 80 masks will help them.  I have kept 40 masks for myself and my family just in case.  I have kept 2 each of the Tyevk suits just in case too.  I will help but not to the detriment of my family in case we need PPE.  

If your local hospital is not sure they will use them keep them!!!  

Lakeman5 wrote: I was inspired by this thread to call my local hospital to see if I could donate my n95s. The woman put me on hold to go check. When she came back she was very unenthusiastic but said they would take them. She later revealed that no one knew what the policy was and they were just going to put them on a shelf to see what mught happen.  Well I have rwo kids who mught be high risk (i cant figure out uf they are or not - they are type 1). So Im gonna hold on to these and call the hospital back after things tick up here.  (Sorry about the spelling but when i type on this site I cant see what Im typing)

Sorry about that response, you did the right thing.   If you go online, you may find hospitals that will accept what you have through the mail (I think some nurses are organizing mask and PPE drives in NYC), but no sense throwing them away on facilities that don't understand the need yet.

I offered my services to our local (small, rural) hospital and got a polite "Thank you, we'll call you if we need you" letter.  Idiots, you need me NOW but don't realize it!!  I'll wait until they are loaded up with worried-well and active cases, and then I'll think about it. 

This kind of short-sighted thinking is how we got into this jam....back in the H5N1 days, public health and hospitals were much more on their toes about pandemic preparedness.  They got lazy.  

Save your masks & PPE until you KNOW, for a fact, that they are going to a good home.  We likely won't need them ourselves, but you never know, since a family member may become ill.  That ill person needs the mask.

I don't mean to demean anyone or cause trouble. I do think it sucks that the medical professionals are put in this predicament. I do support every effort to protect them and their families. It drives me nuts when people say that hoarders have caused the P.P.E. shortage. They are being wrongly blamed. As was mentioned here before, this was being predicted by the professionals for decades.  Hospital management was well aware of those predictions and had a responsibility to plan and prepare.  Our for profit hospital system requires management to squeeze out every last penny and push it to bottom line profit. Maintaining and managing a warehouse or two  full of P.P.E. and unused equipment that you may someday need to carry your hospital through a pandemic, is expensive and difficult to explain to greedy profit hoarding investors.  It's real easy to cut that and hope to god you have retired with your fat bonus check before a pandemic hits. Lets remember     there are 2 supply chains, the consummer and the industrial. The industrial chain would be used by hospitals and medical professionals to buy in bulk. The consumer / hoarder supply chain offers smaller retail packages like the ones you would find on the shelves at Home Depot. Up until 3 days ago the N95 masks available through the consumer / hoarder supply chain were ileagal for use in medical settings. Those are by and large the ones being stored in peoples homes. The shortage was caused by lousy planning and greedy profit mongering on the part of both hospital administrators and the government.    

What you say is correct but pull yourself up by your boot straps, we are in a WAR that we were never going to be prepared for especially after the last two administrations.  Quit crying about what people should have done, who made money it does not matter if you have masks to give, then give, if not quit worrying about it.  What you don't rise above will push you from behind!

'And we are not hoarders.  Panic buying is hoarding.  

What we did iwas get ready.  We prepped.  We did not strip supermarket shelves.  We did not need to.

I might be panicking, but I don't have to shop with it.

You are right that greedy profit hoarding investors in for profit hospitals would not stock pile enough masks. Why didnt the not fir profit hospitals stockpile enough?  Our gov stockpiled masks. A measly small number that was determined by greedy hoarding bureaucrats. Other countries have different systems and only hong kong had enough. I chalk this up to their experience with sars and the fact that they dont wrongly believe masks are ineffective for the masses. They actually require people going into public places to wear masks. 

Technophobe wrote: 'And we are not hoarders.  Panic buying is hoarding.   What we did iwas get ready.  We prepped.  We did not strip supermarket shelves.  We did not need to. I might be panicking, but I don't have to shop with it.

this term hoarder has been thrown around so much. Not by you of course. It made me stop to think about what it actually means. Definitionally it just means to collect a lot. Preparing is definitely not hoarding. I think to be accurate hoarding must include the idea that the collecting deprives others. So buying 1 percent of the pasta on a full shelf would not be hoarding but buying the last 20 boxes could be. But if you got the last two boxes that you actually needed just because you were smarter or luckier than someone else is probably not hoarding either.  Nor would it be hoarding if you saved your money and bought two months worth if plentiful food while someone else spent their money on video games and could only afford one weeks worth of food. A case could be made that if you saved a lot of money and were never generous with your money that could be hoarding. 

Lakeman5 wrote: Technophobe wrote: 'And we are not hoarders.  Panic buying is hoarding.   What we did iwas get ready.  We prepped.  We did not strip supermarket shelves.  We did not need to. I might be panicking, but I don't have to shop with it. this term hoarder has been thrown around so much. Not by you of course. It made me stop to think about what it actually means. Definitionally it just means to collect a lot. Preparing is definitely not hoarding. I think to be accurate hoarding must include the idea that the collecting deprives others. So buying 1 percent of the pasta on a full shelf would not be hoarding but buying the last 20 boxes could be. But if you got the last two boxes that you actually needed just because you were smarter or luckier than someone else is probably not hoarding either.  Nor would it be hoarding if you saved your money and bought two months worth if plentiful food while someone else spent their money on video games and could only afford one weeks worth of food. A case could be made that if you saved a lot of money and were never generous with your money that could be hoarding.

Hoarding is accumulating more than is needed for personal use.  In the past, this was defined as "war profiteering" and was punishable by death. 

Read this about the government and masks:   https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/n95-mask-key-fighting-corona-virus—-us-has-stockpiled-only-1-quantity-needed-135722 - https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/n95-mask-key-fighting-corona-virus—-us-has-stockpiled-only-1-quantity-needed-135722

Hoarding is accumulating more than is needed for personal use.  In the past, this was defined as "war profiteering" and was punishable by death.

The people who buy two weeks of food are just following guidlines  and those who buy months worth for personal use dont meet your definition.

Dang Lakeman give it a rest.  No one is coming to take you stuff!  Everyone's definition is different but no argument on this stuff, please.

FluMom wrote: Dang Lakeman give it a rest.  No one is coming to take you stuff!  Everyone's definition is different but no argument on this stuff, please.

hi friend,  i didnt think i was arguing. I thought i was ruminating.   

https://gsaauctions.gov/gsaauctions/aucdsclnk?sl=71QSCI20292041 - https://gsaauctions.gov/gsaauctions/aucdsclnk?sl=71QSCI20292041

This is a link to a US government auction site that was selling N95 masks to the highest bidder on February 29th.  Do I really need to feel guilty that I stocked up well before then?

LOL, they will be really cheap after this is all over.  There will be a surplus!

I don't think so.  I think when this is over  the states and health care industry will see the wisdom in preparedness, at least for a while.  I would not be surprised if the excess goes into some sort of strategic state stockpile.

3m has started cranking out 100 million per month as of right now. 

Site shows:

System Maintenance

GSA Auctions is currently under System Maintenance.

GSA Auction scheduled maintenance times are every Saturday 5AM CT to 8AM CT & every Sunday from 6AM CT to 10AM CT.

Cover up?

Inquiring minds want to know who the winning bidder was for that lot.  

I wonder if the HVAC filters they sell at Home Depot could be cut and turned into masks. I bought a couple of the high level ones that say they restrict bacteria and viruses. 

Yup.  There's several tutorials on Youtube.  Here's one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T787NV6FpA - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T787NV6FpA  

AndyP wrote: I wonder if the HVAC filters they sell at Home Depot could be cut and turned into masks. I bought a couple of the high level ones that say they restrict bacteria and viruses.

Nope.  I have a friend with GE Healthcare, they have looked at it.  He said: 

I've got people asking me if they can make N95 equivalent masks out of furnace filters.  "So I looked it up.  I see so-called anti-viral furnace filters spec'd down to 0.3 microns.  The pores of an N95 filter are around 3 microns, but they work for the near-field droplets and allow people to breath.  I told the questioner that the furnace filters have a lot of pleats and surface area, and told them that the face filter made from it would have to be huge to allow enough air for breathing and the weight would be taxing unless they incorporated a blower and built themselves a portable HazMat suit.  I suppose they could find a cheaper filter that worked at 2-3 microns and make that work, but quality control of pore size is absolutely critical.  I'm willing to bet that marketing 0.3 microns is more like a best figure with a lot of greater exceptions." 

Honestly, this thread is pretty frustrating. First off, I have about 20 N95 masks and will happily donate them to my local hospital when they need them (it's not the Nurse's fault)... but I shouldn't have to. I live in the US where public shaming for mask wearing has been actively advanced by the government/media and others to cover up the woefully inadequate response of the government and medical community to prepare appropriately. And unfortunately.. It's working! If everyone was wearing a mask right now out in public, we would all be flattening the curve. Gimme a break. EVERYONE should be wearing a mask. When it is socially acceptable and all this BS shaming stops, it will be much safer for everyone. And for god's sake, don't put an n95 mask on someone that is sick. Just saying.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/laura-tennant-consumers-didnt-cause-the-mask-shortage-governments-did - https://nationalpost.com/opinion/laura-tennant-consumers-didnt-cause-the-mask-shortage-governments-did

Newbie1A wrote: https://nationalpost.com/opinion/laura-tennant-consumers-didnt-cause-the-mask-shortage-governments-did - https://nationalpost.com/opinion/laura-tennant-consumers-didnt-cause-the-mask-shortage-governments-did

Yes this. Thank you.

interwebber wrote: Newbie1A wrote: https://nationalpost.com/opinion/laura-tennant-consumers-didnt-cause-the-mask-shortage-governments-did - https://nationalpost.com/opinion/laura-tennant-consumers-didnt-cause-the-mask-shortage-governments-did Yes this. Thank you.

I'm not saying that we did.  Clearly, government policy was key to the shortage.  However, masks are absolutely WORTHLESS for preventing illness in the way that is shown (wearing them on subways, in public, out in the open air etc.).    Masks are designed to protect health care workers from active cases, and to isolate secretions from active cases from contaminating the environment.  

I've read about folks hoarding this valuable PPE, while hospitals are going without.  Folks really should read the literature about PPE and other aspects about prepping, there is far too much "magical thinking" on sites such as this.  

• Unlike NIOSH-approved N95s, facemasks are loose-fitting and provide only barrier protection against droplets, including large respiratory particles. No fit testing or seal check is necessary with facemasks. Most facemasks do not effectively filter small particles from the air and do not prevent leakage around the edge of the mask when the user inhales.
• The role of facemasks is for patient source control, to prevent contamination of the surrounding area when a person coughs or sneezes.  Patients with confirmed or suspected COVID-19 should wear a facemask until they are isolated in a hospital or at home. The patient does not need to wear a facemask while isolated.
• https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/respirator-use-faq.html - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/respirator-use-faq.html
• 
  

Oh dear Chuck, I'm going to argue with you  again.  Please don't think I have lost respect for your greater knowledge.  I have not.

But, Countries where public mask wearing is mandatory are doing better than the rest on virus control.  You are right that personally it makes little difference, but if everyone adopted it, the overall infection rates would fall.

It really doesnt matter if mask wearing protects healthy people from sick mask wearers or if it protects healthy mask wearers from sick people or if it just keeps you from touching your face. Mask wearing works. Thats why all the first responders and hospital staff want to wear masks. If we all wore masks it would be easier than wide spread sipping and it would work. 

Lakeman5 wrote: It really doesnt matter if mask wearing protects healthy people from sick mask wearers or if it protects healthy mask wearers from sick people or if it just keeps you from touching your face. Mask wearing works. Thats why all the first responders and hospital staff want to wear masks. If we all wore masks it would be easier than wide spread sipping and it would work.

As a chronic nail biter....you bet a mask keeping me from touching my face/mouth will help me stay healthy longer!  There are MANY different types of masks - the fact of the matter is, that masks DO work in numerous ways.  I've said since the beginning of this - when the responders stop wearing them, then I'll consider the fact they don't work.  In the meantime, I'm trying to find SUITABLE masks for family who are hospital staff - apparently only certain makes/models of N95 are good enough?!?!...

Think I'll get off here, so many posts are just going around and around - some drowning in politics, I'm tired, cranky, sick!!! and getting 'sick and tired' of politics etc overriding the critical information this forum used to provide.  Have an amazing day all...I'm out!

Touchoftheblues wrote: https://gsaauctions.gov/gsaauctions/aucdsclnk?sl=71QSCI20292041 - https://gsaauctions.gov/gsaauctions/aucdsclnk?sl=71QSCI20292041 This is a link to a US government auction site that was selling N95 masks to the highest bidder on February 29th.  Do I really need to feel guilty that I stocked up well before then?

Has anyone looked at this since it's gone back up for viewing?  Am I missing something???  $50,300 divided by 40 cases = $1257.50/case.  It says 8 boxes (of 20 masks/box) so that's $157.19/box ?!?!?!?!  Did I miss a step? At that point in time they were still available if you looked...?

PARTICULATE RESPIRATORS: (40 CASES)

Lakeman5 wrote: It really doesnt matter if mask wearing protects healthy people from sick mask wearers or if it protects healthy mask wearers from sick people or if it just keeps you from touching your face. Mask wearing works. Thats why all the first responders and hospital staff want to wear masks. If we all wore masks it would be easier than wide spread sipping and it would work.

NO!!  It DOES matter because it wastes valuable PPE resources!!  

Mask wearing works for first responders (I am one) and hospital staff (I'm one of those also) because we have DIRECT CONTACT WITH FULMINANT VIRAL INFECTION!!  

Also, if you are not properly trained in how to mask & de-mask (doff) your contaminated PPE, you are just spreading contamination.  Casually worn masks not only allow for particles to bypass the mask (you see people online, wearing masks covering their mouths only!), but they become rapidly contaminated with bacterial growth and become a source of infection on their own, unrelated to viral loading.   Please see this article from Infection Control Today, the flagship of hospital infection control:

https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/mask-respirators/fighting-covid-19-if-mask-fits--often-it-doesnt?elq_mid=11296&elq_cid=6089152 - https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/mask-respirators/fighting-covid-19-if-mask-fits--often-it-doesnt?elq_mid=11296&elq_cid=6089152

Leave the masks to the trained experts.  I have some but would not wear them unless responding to an incident (I am NIMS ICS trained & certified), caring for my ill wife if she gets the illness, or entering a HC setting in an official capacity (Deputy Sector Chief, Healthcare & Public Health).  I am also respirator trained to work in hazardous environments. 

If you need comfort, get a teddy bear.  Most of the community infection from COVID-19 is fecal/oral, if you want to wear masks, put them on your hands when you go to the bathroom.   https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/926856 - https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/926856

Absolutely agree with what you said about using the mask correctly Chuck.  I was fully trained for NBC situations and at a later date for the use of PPE in emergency surgical events.  I see people using them incorrectly on television and cringe at their ignorance.  However, I am not in the position to do anything about changing the situation.  I suspect people would be far more likely to listen to you on such matters.  Which is why I recommend this site.

I disagree. We could solve both those problems easier than we can all stay home. First-make enough masks. Second - teach people to wear them. Think that cant be done: singapore and tai wan did it and they have the best outcomes so far.

Let me repeat that. Singapore and tai wan both have the best outcomes and both of them have the general public wearing masks. Look at pictures and you will see them wearing masks. Some of them are just surgical masks but its still working. 

Lakeman5 wrote: I disagree. We could solve both those problems easier than we can all stay home. First-make enough masks. Second - teach people to wear them. Think that cant be done: singapore and tai wan did it and they have the best outcomes so far. Let me repeat that. Singapore and tai wan both have the best outcomes and both of them have the general public wearing masks. Look at pictures and you will see them wearing masks. Some of them are just surgical masks but its still working.

Both Singapore and China had very rigid social distancing and quarantine operations, enforced by police and military.   Wearing masks had nothing to do with their level of control.  

Masks are useless outdoors.  Sorry.   The only virus I know of that has wind-borne transmission is foot & mouth disease with cattle.  

This is me (no name for obvious reasons).

My cousin who just started her chemo shared this picture of her nurse (two days ago, in Covidfornia).

Mask wearing works for upper resiratory illnesses. Not alone and not only for trained professionals. They also help with covid19. Im no expert but here is a lengthy article from someone who is: https://sarahwestall.com/how-to-stop-coronavirus-and-save-the-economy/ - https://sarahwestall.com/how-to-stop-coronavirus-and-save-the-economy/ No doubt you will claim he is not an expert. Regardless, masks work which is why healthcare professionals wear them. Cant get much more obvious than that. It does not matter if covid is fecal/oral, aerosal, droplets, or surface caught. The mask covers your nose and mouth which reduces stuff from getting into your nose and mouth. Maybe you will be swayed and maybe not. It doesnt really matter to me. To anyone else: if you have masks you can help health care workers by donating them or you can help yourself by wearing them because they work.

This is how educated our professionals are???  Give me a break.  I gave some masks to a friends daughter who was testing and they had been reusing masks.  But I kept some for  myself and will wear them if I need to and I will restock when this is over.   I do know how to make sure N95 are on correctly!  

socalmom wrote: My cousin who just started her chemo shared this picture of her nurse (two days ago, in Covidfornia).

socalmom wrote: My cousin who just started her chemo shared this picture of her nurse (two days ago, in Covidfornia).

Ok, we need more then a Thanks button - this on is a slap self on forhead or OMG or... Wow...just holy cow WOW!!!

https://getusppe.org - https://getusppe.org

CRS, DrPH wrote: Lakeman5 wrote: I disagree. We could solve both those problems easier than we can all stay home. First-make enough masks. Second - teach people to wear them. Think that cant be done: singapore and tai wan did it and they have the best outcomes so far. Let me repeat that. Singapore and tai wan both have the best outcomes and both of them have the general public wearing masks. Look at pictures and you will see them wearing masks. Some of them are just surgical masks but its still working.  Both Singapore and China had very rigid social distancing and quarantine operations, enforced by police and military.   Wearing masks had nothing to do with their level of control.   Masks are useless outdoors.  Sorry.   The only virus I know of that has wind-borne transmission is foot & mouth disease with cattle.   This is me (no name for obvious reasons).

I was in the US Navy on nuclear submarines rad-con worker level II trained and certified. I have worn double sets of anti-c's and breathing protection working in high radiological contamination areas and then doffed all of these to prevent the spread of contamination of radioactive materials from contaminated airborne areas to clean decontamination zones including myself and tools I used in the zone. Don't buy into the misinformation. Masks for everyone is the answer once they are readily available to everyone. The lie is that they are essential to health professionals but they do nothing for the average citizen because they are soooo hard to wear. I could teach you in 30 seconds how to wear a surgical mask properly. Gimme a break. Good luck!!

Technophobe wrote: Oh dear Chuck, I'm going to argue with you  again.  Please don't think I have lost respect for your greater knowledge.  I have not. But, Countries where public mask wearing is mandatory are doing better than the rest on virus control.  You are right that personally it makes little difference, but if everyone adopted it, the overall infection rates would fall.

Ditto! Tech, I have been squawking about this for weeks. 3 billion other people are wearing them....

Forgive me for not being another lemming but sometimes the logic of a problem trumps best guidance.

At one time this was considered safe by the best minds in the world too:

American solders btw, i used the Soviet one so i didnt have to post the 8 min video.

I refuse to let this die. I have told my daughter since she was 3 years old... If you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem... Stop the lies about masks not being effective. All you are doing is undermining public confidence in the government and so called "experts"!!!

https://www.foxnews.com/media/tucker-carlson-blasts-feds-medical-masks-coronavirus - https://www.foxnews.com/media/tucker-carlson-blasts-feds-medical-masks-coronavirus

interwebber wrote: I refuse to let this die. I have told my daughter since she was 3 years old... If you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem... Stop the lies about masks not being effective. All you are doing is undermining public confidence in the government and so called "experts"!!! https://www.foxnews.com/media/tucker-carlson-blasts-feds-medical-masks-coronavirus - https://www.foxnews.com/media/tucker-carlson-blasts-feds-medical-masks-coronavirus

Sorry, Fox News doesn't count. 

These are the problems: 

a) people have hoarded surgical masks for personal use, this is costing lives in the clinical setting that I work in (hospital infection control).  Civilians have NO need for N95 masks for this outbreak unless they are personally caring for a sick relative up close. 

b) if folks want to wear a mask for prophylatic reasons, I'm OK with that.  However, all you need in public is a bandana or simple dust control hobby mask.  These will catch the droplets released during sneezing and coughing. 

c) most transmittal of SARS-CoV2 is from personal contamination of doorknobs, toilet seats etc. with either mucous secretions (saliva, tears) or fecal matter.  SARS-CoV2 is a cold virus, and it transmits exactly like the common cold.  Do you wear a mask all during cold & flu season?  Didn't think so. 

People can make their own choices, but I think the evidence of civilian mask use is pretty slender. 

Throwing my opinion out there. I do believe wearing a mask will protect you. I believe they have only been saying it won't is because they don't want everyone buying them because hospitals are unprepared. The Doctor, can't remember her name, younger blonde give updates and opinions on news every night, tonight said wearing a mask is effective, N-95, the best,  surgical next, the home made ones are basically useless because they trap germs in the layers. Even Trump said today in his daily address to  the USA that they may soon have everyone wearing masks when they go out. It's under consideration. 

She also showed how to put on the two masks correctly. 

CRS, DrPH wrote: interwebber wrote: I refuse to let this die. I have told my daughter since she was 3 years old... If you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem... Stop the lies about masks not being effective. All you are doing is undermining public confidence in the government and so called "experts"!!! https://www.foxnews.com/media/tucker-carlson-blasts-feds-medical-masks-coronavirus - https://www.foxnews.com/media/tucker-carlson-blasts-feds-medical-masks-coronavirus Sorry, Fox News doesn't count.  These are the problems:  a) people have hoarded surgical masks for personal use, this is costing lives in the clinical setting that I work in (hospital infection control).  Civilians have NO need for N95 masks for this outbreak unless they are personally caring for a sick relative up close.  b) if folks want to wear a mask for prophylatic reasons, I'm OK with that.  However, all you need in public is a bandana or simple dust control hobby mask.  These will catch the droplets released during sneezing and coughing.  c) most transmittal of SARS-CoV2 is from personal contamination of doorknobs, toilet seats etc. with either mucous secretions (saliva, tears) or fecal matter.  SARS-CoV2 is a cold virus, and it transmits exactly like the common cold.  Do you wear a mask all during cold & flu season?  Didn't think so.  People can make their own choices, but I think the evidence of civilian mask use is pretty slender.

Glad you responded. Sorry Fox news offends you. Did you even watch the clip? I think Tucker Carlson is one of the most independent folks out there calling the Trump administration to task where appropriate. The mask problem is with governments and hospitals not preparing appropriately. It's one thing to say we weren't prepared and we need the protection for those on the frontlines. It's an entirely different thing to say masks aren't effective in preventing spread of the virus and possibly dangerous to wear them. This is absurd. History will show who was right and who was wrong during the global pandemic of 2020... If everyone was wearing masks how many more lives would we have saved? How much less stress would have been placed on our health workers and hospitals? Glad you are ok with prophylactic wearing of masks given the asymptomatic spread we have known about for months. Bandanas may be all we have at the moment, but it is not ideal. It didn't have to be this way...