Greetings, my friends.  Hope everyone is doing well.  

Quick note - We always have to allow political posts here as politics and what this Administration does is a major role in this pandemic.   Plus we can't censor folks.  

Bottomline, people either worship Trump, or they hate him, so tempers will fly no matter what happens.  

Having said that, let's try to understand that whatever either side says, there will be retaliation from the others, and that is causing issues here. 

We have to allow political posts, but just don't attack each other.    If you start to get hot-headed (and I have that issue myself lol), then take a break.    

We fully realize this is not a solution,  but many of you all have been here for 10 - 15 years, and you all are the same friends over that period.   Perhaps we should have prepped earlier for the political controversies.  Who would have thought...

So for the time being, let's try to post the political news only, and hold back on the political jabs.  Please use your best judgment as we are all longtime friends here.      

Best to all,

A

Please feel free to chime in and vent your frustration on this thread.   Trying to get a better understanding of what's causing the issues.  Thanks.

I would like it if people would stop calling the U.S, President Names...like Chump!  I have not disrespected any other countries President and I would hope others would do the same.  You can disagree say you don't like what he is doing but calling the President names is out of bounds no matter who is in that office.  I did not call Obama a nigger.  So I would hope people would do the same for the current President and not call him names.

But he a Chump

He disrespects

Everyone!!!!!

 and as you keep pointing out it's a  Free country.......

I lost all respect for chump 

When I saw him MOCK someone with 

Cerebral Palsy

Just so he could get a Laugh..

Sorry mocking someone with affliction ,

Is disgusting,VILE 

Anyone that does it we NEVER NEVER, get any respect From ME....

Albert I think we have a double whammy going on here:

1. these are unsettling times causing uncertainty and financial hardship for many. And for all of us it's beyond our control. There's nothing we can do on our own to stop this disease other than to try and protect ourselves as individuals, and so it's very frustrating to see people around us behaving in ways that will continue to spread the virus - like not wearing a mask, or keeping their distance. As a result people are exercising the only power that they have at their disposal and that is to troll or attack other people for their beliefs or opinions on line. 

2. we have had lots of new member join this site as a result of the pandemic, which is great but if you've ever sat on any committee you'll know that new members always want to make a mark for themselves and get noticed and so generally throw their weight around. Normally they settle down after a few months but this situation the world is facing is ongoing and unprecedented, and so I suspect that unlike the longer term members who have been prepping for just such an event for years and have come to terms with the idea of it, the newbies are still in the shock / stress / anger stages of coping with this. 

The end result is a group of people, some of whom are looking for any slight, no matter how small, as an excuse to vent their anger and frustration. There really isn't a solution for this other than time, but adjusting to change on such a huge scale is not normal and so I'm not sure how long it will take for these people to calm down. I rarely comment on here now because some people are so unpleasant. There are some good discussions but within 3 or 4 posts they morph into slanging matches. And you wait, someone will have a go at what I'm saying here, they can't seem to help themselves. I'm building up a picture of some of the people on here and the imagery is not nice.

FluMom wrote: I would like it if people would stop calling the U.S, President Names...like Chump!  I have not disrespected any other countries President and I would hope others would do the same.  You can disagree say you don't like what he is doing but calling the President names is out of bounds no matter who is in that office.  I did not call Obama a nigger.  So I would hope people would do the same for the current President and not call him names.

Flumom, I hear you but have to say there's a HUGE difference between calling someone Chump and someone a nigger. One is a rhyming play on words with his name and the implication that he's being an idiot and the other is an enormous racial slur that is unacceptable under any circumstances.

BBC News - Mika Brzezinski: TV host blasts 'sick' Trump's conspiracy theory

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52748844 - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52748844

If one reads that BBC report, you will see that Carbon's naming of Mr Trump is mild compared to the language the Mr Trump himself uses on others.  I would respect the President more if he would offer basic respect to others.

But one tip if you find Carbon hard to take.  Pretend that Australians* pronounce the name he uses with a silent "p", so read it as if he was calling the President "his Chum".   I find that takes a lot of the sting out of what he is saying and can then concentrate on the reasons he gives which are more worth debating.  

* I know he is not orginally from Australia.  

Personally, I LIKE the salty, crude political banter! 

I've come to "know" and respect all of you.  FluMom, I know you are a Trump fan, and some of my very best friends from childhood are also Trump fans. 

Me, not so much.  

However, this is a bit like arguing about how an opera is going to turn out in the middle of the second act!  We have what we have, Pres. Trump is the legal leader of the USA and, like it or not, that is the reality.  

It won't take long before we have an election that will sort all of this out.  I'm a former die-hard Republican, friend of Republican Governors, Senators and Representatives, who will not vote for another Republican until this lot is turned out.  Putting immigrant children in cages at the border was just the first of a long line of things that turned me against this kleptocracy, and there is zero chance that Trump and his family will win my vote, ever. 

FluMom, I'm sure glad you didn't ever call Pres. Obama a nigger!   

I try not to call Trump any names, I'll let my vote and political activism speak for me. 

p.s. I ain't no gun-grabbing liberal either! 

Not trying to fan the flames, but I feel I have to point out that nobody in politics has ever embraced the practice of name calling and denigrating others quite as much as the current resident of the White House. His lack of respect for others (especially women who stand up to him) has definitely lowered the bar in that respect.

Just saying.

One of my sisters is an American citizen and has lived in the US for years now, and she LOVES Trump. He can do no wrong in her eyes. The problem I have with Trump is that I expect the president of the US to be above name calling to act in a statesman like way, a presidential way, and I just don't see that with Trump. Perhaps if he wasn't so trigger happy on Twitter we would all see him as a more serious politician. 

It's a bit like my lawyer. I like him because he's professional, he doesn't muck around, he's always available to me and he's got my back. I trust him and I take him seriously. I don't want a joker to advise me on legal matters. He acts like a good, sober lawyer. And likewise my doctor and dentist. There are times when you just want a true professional that you feel you can trust.

Believe it or not, I bite my tongue when replying to political posts.  I have to show at least a sembelance of fairness and equillibrium as a moderator.  That is part of the job.  Very often I have to gently chide people I like and give credit to those I don't.  It goes with the job.  That is the status quo of moderating.  It is an unpaid job with little or no kudos.  But I try to abide by the code of conduct;  most of us do.

How much more should the 'leader of the free world' moderate their behaviour?  Utterly!  And they all did, right back as far as I can tell till the first of them, all except the current one.  KiwiMum and Jacksdad have hit the nail squarely on the head.  

The greatest lack of respect to the office of the US president is shown by its current incumbent.

Well reap as you sow.  Even the office itself is diminished.

And yes, I was biting my tongue - HARD!  I wanted to say a lot more.

It's good that you recognize there's a reason for it.

FluMom wrote:   I did not call Obama a nigger.  So I would hope people would do the same for the current President and not call him names.

Are you insane to say that?  You never struck me as being a racist until now.   You could have said that in many different ways, but you decided to cross a line to make us look bad around here. Maybe all Trump supporters are racists, who knows,  but NEVER do that one again, FM.  Can't believe I have to warn you about that crap.   

Trump is nothing but a lying conman with possible dementia.  Anyone who thinks any different is too far gone as a cult member.  

I voted Trump, I liked him, and then I woke up and left the cult and bailed on the idiot.   Too many lies and corrupt ways for me.  It was a matter of choice for me, to either support the USA or Trump,  and I chose the USA.  I voted Trump, but I won't follow anyone off a cliff.   

what happend to lock her up?

Well Albert there you go thinking I am a racist... I am not just need to shock all of you by saying that.  When you call President Trump names  it is as shocking me as me using that word.    So you made an assumption that is totally wrong.  

FluMom wrote: Well Albert there you go thinking I am a racist... I am not just need to shock all of you by saying that.  When you call President Trump names  it is as shocking me as me using that word.    So you made an assumption that is totally wrong.

Big difference here.  Calling Trump as Chump is meaningless.    That crap happens.    I sure as hell am not having a Mod who slings the N word around.   

You insulted Obama for his color, not his ideology, inteligence or integrity - all of which would have been acceptable.  But you chose his color.  The very use of such a word suggests (very, very wrongly!) that being a particular natural color is somehow a flaw or a fault.

A fake tan, especially one which renders you an unnatural shade of orange, is fair game.  Politicians who can't take that sort of thing need a new job.  Only the idiot who adopted the colour is included in the slur.  It is rather rude, but not racist.  It is only as bad as calling someone a fake-blonde, or suggesting too much lip filler or botox.  

You should not need this explained.  Moderators are expected to rise to a higher standard of behaviour, to set the bar others are guided by*, not plumb new depths.

* (That is why I dissappeared for 24 hours - I'm only human too and could not keep it up.)

All of this is over Chunp?   lol.    The guy is a lying idiot.   His cult members are delusional.   

Very true, AI.  I'm an independent and A-political.   I voted Trump, and had change of heart on the guy.  

I voted Trump as I couldn't stand Hillary lol, but this thing got way out of hand with folks.  Mission accomplished with no Hillary, but now Trump needs to go.    

No prob if people love Trump lol, but no n-word here from his cult.     

Albert wrote: Very true, AI.  I'm an independent and A-political.   I voted Trump, and had change of heart on the guy.

 Interesting to note that the direct representation of the people which is Congress always seems to get a pass and focus always seems to be on POTUS. Even on here not once have I seen anyone call Congress out. But it's a banner year for Congress it's at it's highest approval rating in a decade at 31% YIPPEEE!!! Two words TERM LIMITS 

And let me add the Congressional approval rating average for the last ten years is 17%. Let that sink in.

Or the Senate.  In general, I've found that people don't understand the workings of government.  

As far as Corporate/Investment Banking go... you and I agree. I will go as far to say that Corporate and Banking entities are the deep government everyone is so worried about. Things need to be legislated so Citizen's United can be overturned.  

As far as the "17%" approval rating, what poll  are you using?  

ggg

Gggggg

Could someone delete my double post.   Thanks

Congratulations, AI, you know the difference.  But most Americans believe the House of Representatives to be Congress.  Even News outlets (all of them) refer to the House of Representatives as Congress.  Therein lies my point.  They don't know how government works.  

I find that which ever party wins in a election,.

 all that they  do is undo what the out going party did

It's like 2 steps forward one step back. 

And the only fools paying for all of it are

The  Taxpayers.....

Time after time 

Groudhogday...

"they never do anything".......

https://youtu.be/0SEGHvLElxc - https://youtu.be/0SEGHvLElxc

UK, has the house of Lord's,

We have the Senators

You Have Congress

All "upper houses"

that can overturn the will of the people.....

Is that correct? 

Only no-one votes for the 

Lords.......

Both houses of Congress have to pass the same bill proposing a law or change of law before it goes to POTUS to sign into law or veto. If POTUS veto's the law then it goes back to Congress which can override the veto with a 2/3rd vote.

Since Congress is elective representation of the people, it is the "will of the people" .  However that is a rather dubious statement.

Same here,if it gets 

"knocked back"

three times in the Senate,its history....

When elections rely more and more on $$$$$$$$

It's going to be the Big end of town get what they want....... 

And stuff average Joe Blow.....

we just there to fund their life style........

It is unbelievable that some here would so flippantly throw around the n word. I’m not one for “storming off” or making a big to-do about leaving... but this is my last straw.

I do not accept or tolerate that. Calling someone Chump (and let’s be real, Trump has a nick name for everyone. LITTLE Adam Schiff, Pocahontas, Crazy Bernie, nervous Nancy, etc.) is entirely different from using a racial slur. And pretending anything different is delusional at best, and flat out racist at worst.

I would hope that others would agree that in this age there is no room for that sort of language. If that is tolerated here, this is most definitely NOT the place for me.  

SheriAnn wrote: It is unbelievable that some here would so flippantly throw around the n word. I’m not one for “storming off” or making a big to-do about leaving... but this is my last straw. I do not accept or tolerate that. Calling someone Chump (and let’s be real, Trump has a nick name for everyone. LITTLE Adam Schiff, Pocahontas, Crazy Bernie, nervous Nancy, etc.) is entirely different from using a racial slur. And pretending anything different is delusional at best, and flat out racist at worst. I would hope that others would agree that in this age there is no room for that sort of language. If that is tolerated here, this is most definitely NOT the place for me.

Hi Sheri, good post and thank you for the input.

No need to leave and it won't happen again.  Our apologies that it happened.  

I also agree with the statement with regard to the nicknames Trump gives out to everybody.  Another reason I don't like the guy.   Those nicknames are childish and embarrassing. 

Hard to believe anyone would support his behavior with that.   I voted Trump, and I sure won't be making that mistake again.  

While I appreciate the sentiment, not your apology to give. I mean no disrespect, but I have to point out the obvious that no one else has. I know Flumom is a respected member of the community here and has been here far longer than most, but she has devolved into someone who appears to be incredibly  paranoid and delusional. I don’t know her personally so I can’t say that for fact, but that is the impression she is giving. She is tarnishing the good that this site can do.

I don’t know if it is the stress of everything, but she went from being a rational person with a wealth of knowledge and great input, to someone throwing around racial slurs very casually.

I truly appreciate the apology. The worst part is that you are having to apologize for her misdeeds. And she probably doesn’t even believe she has done anything wrong. She said “I never even called Obama the n word” like calling him the n word was an option? Like she so graciously didn’t call a person of color a racial slur, like she deserves an award or something.

Again, I’m sorry to have to call a respected member out, but I think someone needs to point out the obvious. 

I've turned to this site many times over the last 11 years or so, and always found it informative and helpful. It's sad to me that this place has also become so divided. I appreciate everyone's efforts, but if it is this difficult here, with so many individuals who share the same highest concern, during a pandemic that we've all been preparing for, I am even more worried for the future. 

SheriAnn wrote: While I appreciate the sentiment, not your apology to give. I mean no disrespect, but I have to point out the obvious that no one else has. I know Flumom is a respected member of the community here and has been here far longer than most, but she has devolved into someone who appears to be incredibly  paranoid and delusional. I don’t know her personally so I can’t say that for fact, but that is the impression she is giving. She is tarnishing the good that this site can do. I don’t know if it is the stress of everything, but she went from being a rational person with a wealth of knowledge and great input, to someone throwing around racial slurs very casually. I truly appreciate the apology. The worst part is that you are having to apologize for her misdeeds. And she probably doesn’t even believe she has done anything wrong. She said “I never even called Obama the n word” like calling him the n word was an option? Like she so graciously didn’t call a person of color a racial slur, like she deserves an award or something. Again, I’m sorry to have to call a respected member out, but I think someone needs to point out the obvious.

SheriAnn, I agree with you completely. There's only so many things that can be excused by stress and racism isn't is one of them. There's no place for it on this site, and in the years that i've been on it, this is the first example of it I've seen. It's unacceptable.

SheriAnne

I can't apologise for FluMom, but I can for not managing to prevent her outburst.

I am sorry that bit of nastiness was there for you to read.  It was offensive, divisive and racist.  I appologise again.

Although I can't in any way condone her language, I believe FluMom spoke in the  'heat of the moment' and I do not presume to fully understand all the underlying drives which prompted her to do it, maybe even against her own better judgement.  From the other side of the racial divide it can be hard to understand the deep hurt a 'throway line' can cause.  Her choice of words was abhorrent; that does not mean she, herself is.  She has been reprimanded.  Please could we now forgive and move on?

Please also forgive me for my failure to prevent it.  I am truly sorry.

Oh Dear!

So caucasians do not understand racism, WitchMisspelled?  Let me tell you something, all of you:  I will be 76 years old in a couple of months and I am genetically an Irish celt.  My nation of origin was conquered by the Anglo Saxon English approximately 400 years ago.  We were massacared, forbidden our native language, forbidden our religion, forbidden education and then teased for being stupid, tortued and executed for resistance to our overlords and finally our population was halved by fammine induced by the actions of the  British rulers.  In my lifetime, I have been called "Bog Irish", "Effing Paddy", "Thick Mick" and "Bloody cat-lick" (even though I am not one) and repetitavely discriminated against and been confronted with signs saying "No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish"*  When applying for housing and jobs.  Most of my friends are black, brown, oriental and of foreign origin in General. 

I was brought up in New Zealand from a toddler until I was 9 ¹/_2.  I still choke up and get tears in my eyes when I look at news of earthquakes and the recent shootings that happened in Christchurch.  I was forced to lose my New Zealand accent when I came out of the Air Force by my family and circumstance.   My closest friends still call me Kiwi.   My dark skinned friends (Tee Hee) call me Honkey and when the lights came on in the local pub near where I used to live, after a power outage, they screamed and threw their hands over their eyes and made remarks about being blinded by the reflection from my skin.  I got my own back, by telling them to get up off of their lazy arses and get me a pint of Guinness before I had them whipped and sent back to the cotton fields.  

I have put my life on the line for those very men during a tunnel leak where we were working, that could have drowned us all.  When I collapsed at work with an ulcer, it was one of those black friends who picked me up like a child and ran 100 yards to the ambulance with me - UP SEVERAL FLIGHTS OF STAIRS! 

So, It is not what you say that matters.  It is context and intent.  I don't hate the English I do however refer to them as "Saxon Bastards" etc. when their politicians make stupid tactless and uncaring statements, or actions.  Fortunately that is no longer quite so common.

So, lets all thicken our skins up a little and try to behave in a more gentlemanly/ladylike fashion.  As KiwiMum suggested.

* My father became great friends with a black man who found him laughing at this sign outside a rooming house. 

 "What is so funny about that? asked his future friend.

"I'm Irish.  At least you come before the dog." he replied.

WillobyBrat.  What part of "vast majority" do you fail to understand?  Don't put words in my mouth.  It's not something I will tolerate.  

Thank you all, I appreciate the sentiments. I am glad to know that the elephant in the room has been addressed. I have in my life prided myself on calling out things that I know are wrong, so I’m glad that we can all agree that it was inappropriate.

WillobyBrat, you are condoning blatant racism simply because that’s the way it’s always been. Even if the motive or intent behind it isn’t malicious, the language is still decisive, and it normalizes these words, so it is more casually used in malicious situations.

I’ll never be able to understand the challenges that a person of color has to live through. I do know as a woman, I have been talked over by men, personally and professionally, ignored when I speak only for men to turn around and act as if my idea was theirs. I have been the victim of sexual assault and abuse on more than one occasion. One time I was overpowered in a kitchen when I was 19, pinned down in the floor because I had been flirting with the guy and he thought that was what I wanted. I kept telling him no and finally he listened, but not until he had digitally assaulted me without consent. It physically hurt. I didn’t want it, I told him no, he didn’t listen. He was friends with everyone I was friends with so I had to act like it didn’t bother me to not make anyone else uncomfortable.

Women used to be expected to silently endure these things because men knew better. I couldn’t imagine living back then when it was normalized. When women didn’t get to vote, they didn’t get a say in their lives.

I was raised in a different world and I learned to stand up for what is wrong. I know my experiences are not the same as a person of color, and I don’t know what they have had to endure, but I can be an ally. Something as simple as telling a black person that “they don’t talk like a black person” or “how great you were able to get into a good school” while they sound harmless, like a compliment, they are still perpetuating racism. Just like when I was pinned down on that kitchen floor, I’m sure he doesn’t think of himself as a rapist. He didn’t actually rape me, right? He just shoved his hands down my pants without my consent because he thought he knew what I wanted. He didn’t.

I know this information wasn’t asked for and probably won’t do anything much to help, but we alll need to do our part to make life better for everyone. 

We're all on the same page around here.   

Flumom tends to be candid, and when upset, and when possibly mixed at *happy hour time*  in this case lol, she made a very bad mistake out of anger.    I'm not convinced she is a racist, but she definitely went WAY overboard in making her point.   We all screw up, and no-doubt this was a very bad one.    I've never known her to be racist, but she is definitely known for saying things to get her point across.    

Having said that, of course there is still no excuse for it, regardless of maybe having a drink and in a bad mood, lol.  That is just speculation on my part.  I know I have said some off-the-wall things after a few too many.  

Anyway - we removed her as Moderator.   FM has also been a valuable member here for many years, and still not convinced she is racist.  We never know the stress each person is going through in life, and sometimes anger and stress boils over and we say things we weren't even close to meaning.   

Best to all,

A

I find everybody is a racist in some form or another.

Wether you mock someone because they,are,

 Tall,Short,Fat,Thin,wearing glasses,Bald ,Red hair,Blond hair,Disabled.....

Black,White ,Asian,.....

Some people will always pick on the underdog.....

Mainly because they feel so 

CRAP about their own NONE ,life

And  picking on someone else makes them feel so much better......

We are all a mixture 

Just go and have your DNA tested.

You may be supprised at what you are made of......

After all we all 

APES....some just not evolved as others....

I'd rather be a hybrid,

not and inbred.......

Technophobe wrote: SheriAnne Although I can't in any way condone her language, I believe FluMom spoke in the  'heat of the moment' and I do not presume to fully understand all the underlying drives which prompted her to do it, maybe even against her own better judgement.  From the other side of the racial divide it can be hard to understand the deep hurt a 'throway line' can cause.  Her choice of words was abhorrent; that does not mean she, herself is.  She has been reprimanded.  Please could we now forgive and move on?

The one voice that's missing here is Flumom's. Everyone else is busy apologising except her. And she really should. I don't accept in the "heat of the moment" as an excuse because if that was the case, then, when she had calmed down, she would have edited her post and removed the racist comment. She didn't do that, nor has she explained herself or apologized. I can't see how we can move on from this until Flumom has accepted responsibility and apologized. If she doesn't then we're all just saying that it's fine and people can get away with it. And that's not right.

Dont hold your breath on that one....

She will never apologise,

never think she is in the wrong......

THAT TAKES A BIG PERSON....

She will disappear......

Carbon, you were absolutely right. No apology and no one else calling for one. Let's just brush it under the carpet and let it go without anyone having to stand up and take responsibility for it. This kind of attitude makes my blood boil and I'm not at all surprised to see the riots in Minneapolis at the moment. For far too long America has allowed racism to live and breathe, and hopefully now they will be called to account. It's unacceptable.

The sad truth is that the U.S. hasn't been able to eradicate it since the Civil War.  Further exacerbated by "Blue Entitlement".  No, I am not knocking policemen.  I am deriding the attitude that enables some bad apples among our finest to thrive.

I really don't think Carbon wants us to stop fighting racism - that really is not his style.  Tell him off for being blunt, rude, or even far too personal if you wish, but he is definitely not OK with any racism at all.  He speaks up for anyone he sees as getting a poor deal - often more forcefully than good manners allow.

Rather, I think he meant: "Stop hounding FluMom".  Not because she is exonnerated - or even forgiven, but because it is pointless and cruel.  If that is the case, I agree with him.  OK, so her outburst was vile; but, just for a second, put yourself in her shoes.  One minute she is a respected chief moderator, the next demoted and half the site has turned on her.  

She did wrong.  

We told her off. 

Now drop it please.  

This achieves nothing except upsetting an old lady.  There is way too much cruelty in the world already.  Don't add to it.

Oh, rioting looting and arson also fall into the "unnecessary cruelty" category, but here I have more sympathy.  There is a chance of change if protests are "loud" enough and America is a disgustingly racist country.  

Change never just happens, it has to be fought for.

I just meant Flumom will never come back on what's the point in talking to her?

Now the rant....

I'm will never condone racism....

My son in Law is a Black man, 

My daughter in law ,is a woman of Colour,

My mother born disabled,

Some of my good friends are Gay

And last but very not least my 

FARTHER WAS  JEW

the worse racist remark made to me was ,

"the trouble with the world is the Germans didn't kill enough of your lot off "

so please never accuse me of defending racisim

I was just trying to make a point that all people are bigots in some way or another, 

They have to be shouted down,but in doing so don't make yourself a Bigot.

Try and understand ,and use examples.

I Am an atheist ,as far as in concerned we all the same we

 ALL EVOLOVED ,FROM INTERBREEDING, 

NO RACE IS BETTER THAN ANOTHER.

A very good friend of mine, is half Nigerian half Irish,

He once said to me"you not a racist,just have opinons"

Go and talk to his mother, how married a BLACK MAN in 1955,she was followed by police and told not to mix with "that sort"

My father bought up in Eire, bashed by them good "CHRISTIAN" FOLKS....

SO AGAIN PLEASE DONT TALK TO ME ABOUT RACISM....

Also try migrating to another country like I did, 

Only to be called a POMMIE BASTARD,go back to where you belong.....

No I'm not a racist,

PM me and I'll give you a few phone numbers so you can confirm what I have written...

And don't worry I still love ya xx

Have a lovely day🖖😊

.

Nice Place the USA

AI, Agree, with you that burning, and looting is not the right thing to do.  But why on Tuesday were the protesters fire on with teargas and rubber bullet?  When there were recent protest here in San Diego about opening and letting people go back to work the police stood by, even though individuals were breaking laws (standing in vehicles with their upper bodies were outside the sun roof as they shouted and waved at passer-by) should have been pulled over immediately, but no.   How about the gun carrying people forcing there way into the capital building in Michigan?  Any one arrested? Does this not seem one sided on how the police response?

AI wrote: KiwiMum wrote: Carbon, you were absolutely right. No apology and no one else calling for one. Let's just brush it under the carpet and let it go without anyone having to stand up and take responsibility for it. This kind of attitude makes my blood boil and I'm not at all surprised to see the riots in Minneapolis at the moment. For far too long America has allowed racism to live and breathe, and hopefully now they will be called to account. It's unacceptable. Protesting a wrong action is one thing, rioting, looting and arson are another. Time to call in the National Guard with some tanks and take care of the rabble illegally rioting, looting and burning businesses.

It's time to arrest that police officer for racially aggravated murder and the 3 other attending officers for aiding and abetting him. If they were called to account, I suspect the looting would stop.

Technophobe wrote: I really don't think Carbon wants us to stop fighting racism - that really is not his style.  Tell him off for being blunt, rude, or even far too personal if you wish, but he is definitely not OK with any racism at all.  He speaks up for anyone he sees as getting a poor deal - often more forcefully than good manners allow. Rather, I think he meant: "Stop hounding FluMom".  Not because she is exonnerated - or even forgiven, but because it is pointless and cruel.  If that is the case, I agree with him.  OK, so her outburst was vile; but, just for a second, put yourself in her shoes.  One minute she is a respected chief moderator, the next demoted and half the site has turned on her.   She did wrong.   We told her off.  Now drop it please.   This achieves nothing except upsetting an old lady.  There is way too much cruelty in the world already.  Don't add to it.

Techno, what are you talking about? I was responding to Carbons post that said she wouldn't apologise, and he was right. I don't think he's racist. Far from it. I wasn't telling him off. Re read his post, and then mine. As for him saying stop hounding Flumom, I don't think he was saying that. And as for her apologizing, I think she should. What she said was unacceptable and inexcusable. There's no getting round that.

carbon20 wrote: I just meant Flumom will never come back on what's the point in talking to her? Now the rant.... I'm will never condone racism.... My son in Law is a Black man,  My daughter in law ,is a woman of Colour, My mother born disabled, Some of my good friends are Gay And last but very not least my  FARTHER WAS  JEW the worse racist remark made to me was , "the trouble with the world is the Germans didn't kill enough of your lot off " so please never accuse me of defending racisim I was just trying to make a point that all people are bigots in some way or another,  They have to be shouted down,but in doing so don't make yourself a Bigot. Try and understand ,and use examples. I Am an atheist ,as far as in concerned we all the same we  ALL EVOLOVED ,FROM INTERBREEDING,  NO RACE IS BETTER THAN ANOTHER. A very good friend of mine, is half Nigerian half Irish, He once said to me"you not a racist,just have opinons" Go and talk to his mother, how married a BLACK MAN in 1955,she was followed by police and told not to mix with "that sort" My father bought up in Eire, bashed by them good "CHRISTIAN" FOLKS.... SO AGAIN PLEASE DONT TALK TO ME ABOUT RACISM.... Also try migrating to another country like I did,  Only to be called a POMMIE BASTARD,go back to where you belong..... No I'm not a racist, PM me and I'll give you a few phone numbers so you can confirm what I have written... And don't worry I still love ya xx Have a lovely day🖖😊 .

Was this aimed at me? I don't think you are racist. I was simply agreeing with you that nothing more would be done about this and everyone was happy to let it slide. Perhaps it's a Southern hemisphere think, but I think you and I are the least racist people on here. I think that the kind of attitude that tolerates endemic racism within a population is exactly why people are rioting in Minneapolis right now. What they need to do is to arrest those officers and charge them with murder because that's what it was. Thank heavens for mobile phones and that people can record what happens and post it.

Technophobe wrote: This achieves nothing except upsetting an old lady.  There is way too much cruelty in the world already.  Don't add to it.

I hear what you're saying but just look at the line I'm quoting from you. What she said was incredibly damaging and unacceptable and I'd argue that yes, there is way too much cruelty in the world already but also that allowing someone to get away with such behaviour is adding to it. 

I'm not calling for Flumom to be hounded off this site, but an adult should stand up and admit their mistakes. They should take responsibility for them and then apologise for them. Everyone else is busy apologising for her but as yet we haven't heard from Flumom, and that tells me that she's not sorry for using the N word, that she doesn't think she's done anything wrong, and that secretly she was justified in doing so. That's the problem I have with this.

No Kiwimum,not aimed at you, Just putting the record straight,as to why I'm not a racist,and maybe making others just think that are,who some how think they superior because their skin has evolved to absorb more sunlight to make vitamin D in a land without much sunlight.....

Ignorance at its best.....

Can't fix stupid....

😉🖖

Disgusted at watching George Floyd,

murdered on camera......

The folks there are totally justified in protesting,i don't agree with the burning and violence...

But calling out armed national guard,only going to be more trouble,

This is American......

"The Right to bear arms"

Reap what you sow..

.

I think I got the wrong end of the stick there, KiwiMum. Sorry.

I can't see FluMom apologising, she probably does not even realise how offensive that post was.  But, for all her faults, I'm a bit fond of her. You can accuse me of bad taste if you wish, but I am and I imagine the backlash was as bruising for her as the post itself was for some readers.

It can be a hard line to walk trying to keep everyone happy.  I'm exhausted!

I just meant ,if everyone can carry a weapon things could get out of hand real quick if the national guard start shooting, 

others with....

 "a right to bear arms" .....

might shoot back....

maybe with better weapons than the NG.....just saying.....

I find it all very sad when we fighting the 

WU...

WitchMisspelled wrote: What happened to George Floyd has happened everywhere. Even in NYC (Eric Garner). There wasn't any rioting after Garner's death. There were organized protests. I don't know what the difference is between what's happening now and what happened then in terms of protests, except that before there were organized protests and marches in NYC, the police did not fire tear gas into the crowds. The police and local authorities did everything they could to diffuse tensions instead of just siccing police on protesters. Maybe New York educated their cops better when they militarized them than elsewhere. I just don't know. I am heartsick at what's happening in Minneapolis.  The protesters, rioters and looters are destroying their own homes.  From what I can see, the police did more to fan the flames than put them out.  Their frustration level at the brutality they experience every day must be at a level where they just don't care anymore.  I say this about both sides of the conflict.

It's just awful isn't it? The problem is that peaceful protests make no difference. Eric Garner should have been the last black man unlawfully killed but he wasn't. All they had to do in Minneapolis was to arrest those police officers and charge at least one of them with murder, and the others with being accessories. In this day of mobile phone cameras, the police just can't get away with this sort of thing any more. 

The authorities - including the president - need to stand up and say that all people are equal, and  mean it. There is obviously a culture in the US that doesn't believe that. That, to some extent, black people are worth slightly less than white, that they are expendable. Can you imagine what would have happened if it were four black cops killing a white man? There would have been an uproar across the whole country, starting with Trump on Twitter. At least these protests are getting the news coverage.

Technophobe wrote: I think I got the wrong end of the stick there, KiwiMum. Sorry. I can't see FluMom apologising, she probably does not even realise how offensive that post was.  But, for all her faults, I'm a bit fond of her. You can accuse me of bad taste if you wish, but I am and I imagine the backlash was as bruising for her as the post itself was for some readers. It can be a hard line to walk trying to keep everyone happy.  I'm exhausted!

Thanks Techno. 

https://youtu.be/Web007rzSOI - https://youtu.be/Web007rzSOI

Nothing has changed 

That cop in Minneapolis has been charged with murder. I've started a new thread and posted the link in Latest News. Thank heavens some common sense at last.

the phrase"looting and shooting "is new to me.....

Let's just hope this a Big Changing point in American society....

Something needs to change......

NEEDS A REAL LEADER TO STEP UP .....

Don't hold your breath!

I think the current generation of political elders has made themselves obsolete.  They are too old to change, and they are set in their ways.  I see them the same way I see my dementia patients.  You can appreciate and care for them in spite of their generational foibles, but it is too late to rewrite their history.  They are who they are, which is the reason our elder politicos need to move out of the way.  Let the younger generation take on the leadership roles.

I also think our two party system is now obsolete.  Seems like both parties are run by the wingnuts.  Our country desperately needs a viable third party led by moderates.  

What I wouldn't give right now to have former Senator Bill Frist as our president...doctor, business man, experienced leader.  I wish he would run.  Unfortunately, he meant what he said about the need for term limits.  He left politics and shows no interest in returning.

Yes Exactly Flubergasted!  It's time to pass the torch to younger problem solvers and ditch the crazy ideologies.   Our leadership looks like a nursing home.  

AI wrote: You think this kind of police action only happens to black american's? You think it doesn't happen to latino americans, asian americans, native american's or caucasian's for that matter? So your saying the means justifies the end and lawlessness and violence is the answer?  I doubt those black business and home owners who lost their homes and businesses to the lawless mob agree with you or anyone else who lost property to the lawless mob as well.  And since when did personal gain via looting and stealing help any cause, other than the individual criminal? Are they looting for the memory of Floyd and for change? Or are they looting for themselves and just taking advantage of the situation?

It's a case of rage against the machine. Someone wise (and I want to say Mark Twain but I might be wrong) said that in order for society to continue, the common man must have a vested interest in it, and therefore he must be able to own property. If he doesn't or can't own property then the status quo will end. That's not an actual quote as I can't remember the words, but it's the gist of it. 

We have younger generations who can no longer get on the property ladder and that's just the tip of the iceberg. They don't have a voice and they aren't listened to. More and more people are disenfranchised from society and the death of George Floyd is just the proverbial straw that broke the camels back. No, rioting isn't right. No, it isn't just because a black man was murdered by a white cop, it's the frustration of millions of people who are not listened to, who are in poverty despite working long hours, who have lifestyle images rammed down their throats from every billboard and every twitter feed and know full well that they'll never have those things in their lives, go on those trips, have a beach house. 

In Jared Diamond's book Collapse, he found that the common factor in about 30 societies that collapsed in history was that the gap between rich and poor had grown too wide. Well look at us now. It's never been bigger. The revolution is coming and if all you can see is the current rioting then you're looking in the wrong direction.

KiwiMum wrote: That cop in Minneapolis has been charged with murder. I've started a new thread and posted the link in Latest News. Thank heavens some common sense at last.

To paraphrase Technophobe... Don't hold your breath that it'll go anywhere near justice.

Thanks Witchy!

I meant, don't hold your breath waiting for an American 'leader'.  But that interpretation works even better!

I have been gone a few days due to personal matters, and I came back to this.

I am aghast.