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Covid over in 30 days

Printed From: COVID-19 / South Africa Omicron Variant
Category: Main Forums
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Description: (General discussion regarding the coronavirus pandemic)
URL: http://www.avianflutalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=43300
Printed Date: March 28 2024 at 10:41am


Topic: Covid over in 30 days
Posted By: cobber
Subject: Covid over in 30 days
Date Posted: September 15 2020 at 5:43am

COVID is a Powderpuff. 

The narrative will be dead after the US election. About two weeks later its will be flushed down the memory hole. 




Replies:
Posted By: ViQueen24
Date Posted: September 15 2020 at 7:24am

Yes, because the world revolves around us.  πŸ™„



Posted By: roni3470
Date Posted: September 15 2020 at 2:38pm

Well Cobber, every person on this forum hopes you are correct.....for whatever reason, we would all love it to be gone in 30 days!



-------------
NOW is the Season to Know

that Everything you Do

is Sacred


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: September 15 2020 at 4:34pm

Well it's taken slightly longer than 30days over there in Victoria,but looks like they getting on top of it now,

And NSW has the Gold standard as to open up safely by the look of it, 

We remain sealed up..... 

SCIENCE PREVAILS....... 



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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.πŸ––

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: cobber
Date Posted: September 22 2020 at 11:18pm

I was wrong the election was further off. November 3rd. 

This boogie man will be pushed very had in the media. I assume it will be absolutely hammered all the way up to the culmination on election day.  There will be a ton of emotive stuff .

I wish the general public weren't so stupid and could see through this bull$hit


0.3% fatalities




Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: September 23 2020 at 1:35am






Think you better call Boris Cobber......

BBC News - Covid: Boris Johnson warns of tougher measures if new rules are flouted

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54260259 - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54260259



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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.πŸ––

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: EdwinSm,
Date Posted: September 23 2020 at 1:37am

For it to be over by the election "the curve needs to be flatten".  Remember that phrase from the beginning of the outbreak?




Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: September 23 2020 at 5:02am






Must mean 2024....election.....




-------------
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.πŸ––

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: September 23 2020 at 6:03am

The western world has flattened the curve, ok, so not ---------,  but l  -  it's still flat.   

                                                                                                           l

                                                                                                           l

                                                                                                           l



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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.


Posted By: cobber
Date Posted: October 04 2020 at 5:15am

Now its 30 days to go. 

It will be over soon.

 



Posted By: EdwinSm,
Date Posted: October 04 2020 at 7:46am

Did you just change the thread title?  Because 30 days from the first post is 15th October, not the date of the election.


From a European perspective it is confusing why you tie the unfolding of a pandemic to the USA political time table.  Or was your concern (as you mentioned "narrative") more about how the papers report things rather than the actual progression of the pandemic?




Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: October 04 2020 at 3:10pm

Typo.....

Over in 300 days.....methinks.....lol



-------------
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.πŸ––

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: AI
Date Posted: October 05 2020 at 9:25pm

Originally posted by roni3470 roni3470 wrote:

Well Cobber, every person on this forum hopes you are correct.....for whatever reason, we would all love it to be gone in 30 days!

Seems to me some on this forum would rather it be what it isn't. And what it isn't, is a particularly deadly virus. 



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β€œFacts don't care about your feelings.”
― Ben Shapiro


Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: October 06 2020 at 2:03am

No, it isn't particularily deadly, AI.  But it is more than deadly enough and extremely contagious.  Almost 210 thousand American citizens are proof of that.  

Much more worrying is the fact that this new bug is a coronavirus.  Coronaviridae share certain characteristics.  They are airborne, highly contagious and change their spike proteins often.  As a result, becoming endemic, developing a more deadly strain and learning to defeat both vaccines and treatments are all possible.  There is a host of good reasons why the WHO keep trying to encourage suppression.  There may also be hidden leftovers from having the disease that we do not yet know about.  This happens with emerging disease.  We do know that even younger sufferers are vulnerable to resultant heart disease.  We do not yet know (and will not know possibly for years) how long that will last, or even if it is permanent.  Only a handful of people on the entire planet can get the sort of treatments Trump just accessed.

Locking down only the vulnerable is an option.  But not a good one.  For them it is often a death sentence.  An old friend of my husband and I died just last week, not from covid, but because of it.  Being locked down and vulnerable, she died of another condition, when her treatments were put on hold.  Other friends have had cancer treatments suspended, as the risks of chemotherapy's immune suppression outweigh the benefits during this pandemic.  You could say (logically and correctly) that they are terminal anyway - but not to my face!  They could have had decades, now it is merely years and in one case just months.  Everyone on Earth is terminally ill.  We are all mortal.  But those intervening years matter.  One of those vulnerable people I count as friends is a teenager, another a fireman.  

All have families. 

All matter. 

ALL!



I really wish this were less deadly.  I wish it were less contagious too.  I wish it were not a type of coronavirus.  I wish selfish covidiots would stop downplaying it because they think their freedom to prove themselves selfish (no mask), knowlegable (cherry picked information) or politically astute (£$&*$£!!!) outweighs other people's right to life and health.  

Covidiots is what I am allowed to call them.  Not the words I want to use.



-------------
How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.


Posted By: BeachMama
Date Posted: October 06 2020 at 8:46am

Technophobe, 

What you wrote was so incredibly powerful. I could not agree more.

I am so sorry for the situation your friends find themselves in; how heartbreaking. 



Posted By: AI
Date Posted: October 06 2020 at 10:46am

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

No, it isn't particularily deadly, AI.  But it is more than deadly enough and extremely contagious.  Almost 210 thousand American citizens are proof of that.  

Much more worrying is the fact that this new bug is a coronavirus.  Coronaviridae share certain characteristics.  They are airborne, highly contagious and change their spike proteins often.  As a result, becoming endemic, developing a more deadly strain and learning to defeat both vaccines and treatments are all possible.  There is a host of good reasons why the WHO keep trying to encourage suppression.  There may also be hidden leftovers from having the disease that we do not yet know about.  This happens with emerging disease.  We do know that even younger sufferers are vulnerable to resultant heart disease.  We do not yet know (and will not know possibly for years) how long that will last, or even if it is permanent.  Only a handful of people on the entire planet can get the sort of treatments Trump just accessed.

Locking down only the vulnerable is an option.  But not a good one.  For them it is often a death sentence.  An old friend of my husband and I died just last week, not from covid, but because of it.  Being locked down and vulnerable, she died of another condition, when her treatments were put on hold.  Other friends have had cancer treatments suspended, as the risks of chemotherapy's immune suppression outweigh the benefits during this pandemic.  You could say (logically and correctly) that they are terminal anyway - but not to my face!  They could have had decades, now it is merely years and in one case just months.  Everyone on Earth is terminally ill.  We are all mortal.  But those intervening years matter.  One of those vulnerable people I count as friends is a teenager, another a fireman.  

All have families. 

All matter. 

ALL!



I really wish this were less deadly.  I wish it were less contagious too.  I wish it were not a type of coronavirus.  I wish selfish covidiots would stop downplaying it because they think their freedom to prove themselves selfish (no mask), knowlegable (cherry picked information) or politically astute (£$&*$£!!!) outweighs other people's right to life and health.  

Covidiots is what I am allowed to call them.  Not the words I want to use.

Interesting that you have been in favor of lockdowns previously, yet now you say they are not a good option. Yes they are not a good option for the entire population given the extremely low IFR of Covid among the lower age groups. Lockdowns should only include those most vulnerable of the population. When the cure is more harmful than the condition it's simply not logical to pursue a cure that is. I'll wager that future studies and information will show the effects of lockdowns to be more detrimental than the virus is long term, as a result of delayed health care or treatments, suicide, drug and alcohol abuse, stress, domestic violence, as well as just plain violence. You think the rise in homicides in the major cities isn't tied directly to the lockdowns? In a population of 320 plus million the ripple effects of the lockdows has yet to be fully realized or quantified.

 Granted the information that drove the lockdowns has changed as more information has become known. And with that changed information our attitudes and the way we approach the virus must change as well and realize it for what it actually is and isn't.  People can't live in the March 2020 COVID induced world of fear forever. Reality is knocking and the world goes on.



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β€œFacts don't care about your feelings.”
― Ben Shapiro


Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: October 06 2020 at 1:26pm

Thank you, Beachmama.  It was nice to be both read and understood.  I was starting to think I was writing gibberish.  I did say. "locking down only the vulnerable" was a bad idea, didn't I, not: "full lockdowns."  I believe I even explained why: "locking down only the vulnerable"  was so bad an idea,  I even gave examples - didn't I?

Well some people could twist anything, I suppose.  

Anyway, thank you again.  At least I know my sanity still holds.



-------------
How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.


Posted By: cobber
Date Posted: October 12 2020 at 6:57am

Not long now and we can get on with our lives..

Everything is starting to come out. 

WHO  LOL what a joke



Posted By: EdwinSm,
Date Posted: October 22 2020 at 10:53pm

Not long now.....until we find that Cobber misspelled adding a "D" to POWER-PUFF.  This virus seems to have lot of "Puff" left.


Granted this is not the "slate-wiper" although that may happen if the medical facilities are overwhelmed (I heard on this morning's radio news that Belgium has announced that all its ICU are full), and civil order breaks down.



Posted By: WitchMisspelled
Date Posted: October 23 2020 at 7:15am

Yup. Less than two weeks.  Get the champagne chilled...



Posted By: morpheuskrs
Date Posted: October 28 2020 at 10:49am

Quite frankly, I am getting fed up with the politicians, everywhere. Not much to say about the so called medical scientists either.

They are either trying their best to look optimistic, about the efforts being made by the populations to get on top of this virus, OR, they are terrified at the prospect of, as a politician said, "An Inconvenient Truth".

There are far too many instances of significant numbers of people, from far too many countries, ignoring the rules in place altogether, or merely abiding by the rules that suit them. That completely undermines any optimism that any politician can have. And mine as well!!!

There are apparently, up to eleven potential vaccines, undergoing stage three trials. Quite honestly, I won't hold my breath. The medical bunch seem to think, that a 50% efficacy would be a result. Oh no it wouldn't. Two or three jabs a year, that still leaves us with a one in two chance of catching it, is not a vaccine. It would also be mightily expensive to bring into being, assuming it could ever be done, with the regular incompetence shown day in, day out, by so many governments.

This leaves us with the inconvenient truth.............This virus is here to stay, at least for the foreseeable future. Let's say, about fifty to one hundred years.

One scientist suggests there could be as many as 20,000 variants of Covid-19, and many more still to emerge.

I personally went into 'Lockdown' on February 5 2020. My only 'adventures' out, have been to work, or to shop, and nothing else. I am still in 'Lockdown' and I plan on staying there. 

The television is rubbish, and I'm fed up with the constant repeats. The radio isn't any better. But I am safe where I am, in my four walls.

At least I think I am.




-------------
Morpheus


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: October 28 2020 at 2:18pm




Feel for you morpheuskrs,

my mom lives Birmingham,she lives alone, 85yrs,only sees one person ......

Just heard Dr Fauci saying "we might see some sort of normal late 2021into 2022.....

We may open our borders to the rest of Australia by December I'm guessing,if Melbourne stays covid free for 28 days

(great movie" 28 days later")

Stay safe,keep well all  πŸ˜·πŸ˜‰





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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.πŸ––

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: EdwinSm,
Date Posted: November 07 2020 at 2:09am

Election day been and gone,,,,and covid-19 seems to have been relegated to second place in the news.... but it is not going to fade away like a powder puff.  Rather if cases keep rising then it might be USA that fades away not the coronavirus,  


US hits record daily case rise three days running

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54851759 - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54851759



Posted By: Tabitha111
Date Posted: November 07 2020 at 4:07am

"We are not going to control the pandemic." - Mark Meadows, President Trump's Chief of Staff Oct. 25, 2020


Mark Meadows has tested positive for #COVID19



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'A man who does not think and plan long ahead will find trouble right at his door.'
--Confucius



Posted By: Tabitha111
Date Posted: November 07 2020 at 4:09am

Meanwhile~~HOSPITAL CRISIS IN FRANCE: #COVID19 is now so bad, WhatsApp groups of ER staff in Paris: “There are 15 patients in the corridors, we do not know where to put them, we keep watch until 4 am, if it continues like this, we are going to crash", fears ER staff.



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'A man who does not think and plan long ahead will find trouble right at his door.'
--Confucius



Posted By: cobber
Date Posted: November 09 2020 at 4:57am

Covid is over. 

Any day now it will be diminished by some event.


Scientists found a milder strain

or 

Vaccine

or 

Medical intervention



Posted By: WitchMisspelled
Date Posted: November 09 2020 at 6:35am

ksc just posted an article about Pfizer claiming its vaccine has a 90% efficacy.  Good news but it's not over by a long shot.  It will still be six to 12 months before that vaccine is approved, manufactured and administered.

Meanwhile we sit with an increased infection rate of 120,000+ cases a day in the U.S.  So the CFR might be lower, but it will still overwhelm our hospital system.  Italy reports its healthcare system is on the brink of failure. Six of one/half dozen of another.  But, you're entitled to your opinion, Cobber.  But I think we'll still be living with this for at least another year.  And it won't disappear... it will remain in the news and in the uppermost consciousness of those of us who don't believe this is all one big hoax.



Posted By: roni3470
Date Posted: November 09 2020 at 6:57am

according to them, they will have the required FDA numbers by third week in November and millions of doses of the vaccine have already been produced.  They are ready to ship and start administering.  Going to be interesting!!



-------------
NOW is the Season to Know

that Everything you Do

is Sacred


Posted By: WitchMisspelled
Date Posted: November 09 2020 at 7:58am

Saying millions will be ready to go is impressive.  But there are over 330,000,000 in the U.S. alone.  I doubt that Pfizer will limit itself to selling a vaccine with such efficacy to the U.S. alone.  It's still going to be six to 12 months before enough are vaccinated for herd immunity to kick in.  



Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: November 09 2020 at 2:11pm

Originally posted by cobber cobber wrote:

Covid is over. 

Any day now it will be diminished by some event.


Scientists found a milder strain

or 

Vaccine

or 

Medical intervention

DREAM ON DREAMER......



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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.πŸ––

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: November 24 2020 at 12:59pm

One quarter of all US cases have shown up in November - and the month isn’t over yet. The line on the graph is getting awful steep for something that is going away.







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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.


Posted By: cobber
Date Posted: January 20 2021 at 5:08pm

I'm giving this thread a kick in the guts again.... 


My original assumption was the virus would be over after the November election. I was wrong?  Maybe


Seeing the election was protracted and no clear winner. I believe the reporting of the virus was extended. Now with a clear winner (?) I'm betting the virus disappears very rapidly. In two months, I'll come back and visit again. I'm betting the narrative will be "thank god it over".


I'll preface this by saying. There will be masks and vaccine passports BS etc. But the hype will be gone. The narrative will change.


See you March 21....   Powderpuff day



Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: January 20 2021 at 5:44pm

400k deaths in the USA is no powderpuff.  The numbers there are still rising.  That does not look like 'going away' either.  It looks as if 1 person in 5 has had it.  That means 4 out of five have not and remember it can be caught a second time, often with a worse outcome than the first.


Over here in the UK, things are going from bad to worse.  Our hospitals are full and they are only treating emergencies and covid.  We are in full lockdown and the numbers of infected, critically ill and dead have barely plateaued as a result.  They don't seem to be going down despite draconian measures.   OK, so we have a new variant, but it has already escaped our borders.  Have a look at the video Hazelpad posted: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/health-55724994 - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/health-55724994 if you find that hard to swallow.

Some years ago animal rights people released loads of mink into our countryside (BLOODY IDIOTS!) not only have they killed almost all watervoles in Scotland (extinction now looms) and many farmers' smaller livestock (a few of our chickens for instance) but they can catch, carry and transmit this bug.  Show me the mink that will wear a mask or wash its paws.  This area is infested with them.  They can get into chicken runs through surprisingly tiny holes.

Personally, I phone my doctor's surgery once every two months for repeat perscriptions; the last 3 calls have met answerphone messages saying the surgery is shut.  They used to offer the flu vaccine locally, now we would need to have travelled 20 miles to the nearest bigg-ish town to get it.  (We declined.  The trip was too risky and it is hard to catch flu when you are utterly isolated.)  I have not lost anyone very close, but several people close to me have, I grieve for them;  one has lost 4 close family members and Bernard lost an old lover - still loved if not still 'in love', she was the lady who first introduced us. I owe a huge debt to her memory.

More young seem to be getting sick and now it appears that some of the 'recovered' fall ill and die long after the numbers are counted as Covid deaths.


If this is a powderpuff, it is impregnated with aconite (the contact poison extracted from wolfsbane).



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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.


Posted By: ViQueen24
Date Posted: January 20 2021 at 6:53pm

I don't call this powderpuff:

https://www.woodtv.com/health/coronavirus/study-1-in-4-covid-19-patients-considered-long-haulers/ - https://www.woodtv.com/health/coronavirus/study-1-in-4-covid-19-patients-considered-long-haulers/

Study: 1 in 4 COVID-19 patients considered ‘long haulers’

CORONAVIRUS

by: Matt Jaworowski


Posted: Oct 22, 2020 / 03:12 PM EDT / Updated: Oct 22, 2020 / 03:29 PM EDT


GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. (WOOD) — A new study led by the University of Michigan and the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services found more than 25% of Michiganders diagnosed with COVID-19 are considered “long haulers,” meaning they are still dealing with health effects from the virus.


For the study, researchers surveyed 638 Michiganders who were diagnosed with COVID-19 before April 15. Everyone was contacted at least 10 weeks after their diagnosis for follow-up questions. Of the 638, 26.2% say they are still dealing with virus symptoms and don’t consider themselves fully recovered.


“A lot of what’s been circulating in the media about COVID is that it affects a small group of people very severely, but the majority of people recover,” said Jana Hirschtick, one of two lead researchers on the project from the University of Michigan. “And I think two key things that we are learning from our study is that among people who have been diagnosed, actually, the majority of them are reporting severe or very severe symptoms and that a lot of people aren’t recovering even months later, so prevention is really key.”


Of the 638 patients surveyed, 25.8% of them say they suffered “very severe” symptoms at the height of their illness, while 39% only called them severe. A combined 35.2% said their symptoms were either moderate or mild.


Still, the survey shows the virus isn’t only a long-term problem for long haulers. Of the 420 respondents who do consider themselves recovered, 16.9% of them say it took at least seven weeks or longer for them to beat the virus entirely. Approximately two out of five recovered respondents felt better after two weeks of their diagnosis, and about three out of five felt fully recovered within three weeks.


Of those surveyed, 29% say they ended up being hospitalized by COVID-19. Of those that were hospitalized, 64% were in and out in less than a week. Only 10.4% were there for longer than three weeks.


The Michigan researchers believe their survey stands out because they aren’t simply looking at the impact COVID-19 is having on the people dealing with the extreme outcomes of the virus.


“Most other studies to date have focused on a subset of COVID cases, either studying those who were hospitalized or those who maybe visited an outpatient clinic,” Hirschtick said. “Which makes it really hard to make general inferences to the general population because so many people with COVID are not being hospitalized. Our study is unique because we are looking at all confirmed positive cases. So, we are still missing people who were not tested, but we are catching everyone with a positive test in the state of Michigan.”


Researchers are already working on a second version of the study, following up with more Michiganders diagnosed with COVID-19 through the spring. They hope to learn more about the demographics and figure out the similarities between COVID-19 long haulers.


The full report can be found online.


But, glad you think this is a powderpuff.  Maybe you don't mind having to shell out for people who are disabled long-term?   But some people do.  And that says nothing for the suffering that these people are going thru.  The world doesn't revolve around the American election and Mr. Tangerine Man. 



Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: January 20 2021 at 7:14pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/health-55724994 - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/health-55724994


Maybe you should volunteer at this hospital........





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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.πŸ––

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: cobber
Date Posted: January 20 2021 at 9:26pm

I'm not going to argue emotive arguments. Facts and statistics are the better measure. I'm just saying that the figures have been vastly overstated. 

On 20th of February 2020 we worked out the CFR. It was 0.3%. This figure was very close to the mark. Top virologists were coming in with similar numbers. HOWEVER...  at the time. The media, the CDC and the WHO all stated high numbers. At this point I knew it was a stitch up. 


Lies!


Just wait two months. 


The back pedaling is already starting...   https://twitter.com/AndySwan/status/1351975650521993221 - https://twitter.com/AndySwan/status/1351975650521993221


https://www.who.int/news/item/20-01-2021-who-information-notice-for-ivd-users-2020-05 -

enjoy the show



Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: January 21 2021 at 7:22am

I presume you have not watched any American news lately.  

Had you done so, you would have seen how far twitter posts can deviate from the truth.


Incidentally a disease does not need a huge CFR to cause devestation.  What it really neads is a long convalescent period and a high R0.  Ring any bells?



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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.


Posted By: KiwiMum
Date Posted: January 21 2021 at 1:04pm

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

400k deaths in the USA is no powderpuff.  The numbers there are still rising.  That does not look like 'going away' either.  It looks as if 1 person in 5 has had it.  That means 4 out of five have not and remember it can be caught a second time, often with a worse outcome than the first.

This is where I need clarification. The fact you can catch it again, and i've also read that the new variants can be caught by someone who had developed strong antibodies for the original Sars Cov 2, because the mutations have made it so different. I've also read from multiple sources that the vaccines neither stop you from catching Covid, nor stop you from transmitting Covid to other people. So as far as I can make out, the only point of the vaccine is to reduce the number of people who develop serious complications from the disease, thereby reducing the strain on the medical system. So by taking the vaccine I'm not saving lives or doing anything to reduce the spread, I'm simply helping out the health service.

Have I missed the point?



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Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.


Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: January 21 2021 at 2:03pm

I don't really have good answers for you yet.

Yes, the vaccines do make you imune to the disease in most cases (but not all - however 90 or 95% is a good score) and protect against severe disease in the other few vaccinated.   So they make good sense.  For those strains not covered (possibly the Brazilian) as they protect against the other strains, and thereby eliminate the post covid damage, they give some protection even there.

We are also hoping that if enough people are vaccinated, then we can achieve the fabled 'herd immunity'.  But the answer to that question is not simple.  The R0 goes up and down as new strains appear and as lockdowns and other methods are tried.  It is a goal, but we do not yet know how many have to have had the disease to achieve it.  We could make a few educated guesses, but then another strain emerges and it is back to the drawing board.  Just dropping the number of transmissions, will save many lives.


Basically, they do prevent disease in most cases and along with that at least reduce transmission (immune people still need to wash their hands).


No vaccine ever protects everyone (except in those cases where the disease goes extinct - like smallpox).  But protecting most people can be enough to improve things beyond all measure.  Don't let the perfect get in the way of the good.



-------------
How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.


Posted By: cobber
Date Posted: January 21 2021 at 5:31pm

LOL. Can't make this stuff up. 

https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/right-cue-biden-who-admits-high-cycle-pcr-tests-produce-massive-covid-false-positives - https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/right-cue-biden-who-admits-high-cycle-pcr-tests-produce-massive-covid-false-positives

We argued high cycle PCR tests were inaccurate in March last year. Obviously the wrong standard to use. 40 cycles! Obviously wrong! False positives everywhere. Govt did nothing...


Now they change the standard on the day Biden inauguration. No media will report this. The cases will just magically drop. 


You seeing how this works yet?


Covid is a Powderpuff!



Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: January 21 2021 at 6:34pm

So what do you say about the UK 1800 a day dead,

Is Biden fudging those numbers.....

And in Germany are is Biden fudging those numbers....

Such a d...khead...

Stupid conspiracy theories......

Take care all πŸ˜·πŸ˜‰




-------------
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.πŸ––

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: January 22 2021 at 12:59am

PerthNow: Japanese government make drastic decision to cancel 2021 Tokyo Olympics.

https://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/olympics/japanese-government-make-drastic-decision-to-cancel-2021-tokyo-olympics-ng-b881776163z - https://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/olympics/japanese-government-make-drastic-decision-to-cancel-2021-tokyo-olympics-ng-b881776163z

How do you explain Japan ,they seem to be having a problem,

Biden magic not working there......



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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.πŸ––

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: Tabitha111
Date Posted: January 22 2021 at 7:34am

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-olympics-2020-joc-interview/wrong-and-ridiculous-japan-olympics-head-slams-tokyo-cancellation-report-idUSKBN29R1M1 - ' https://www.reuters.com/article/us-olympics-2020-joc-interview/wrong-and-ridiculous-japan-olympics-head-slams-tokyo-cancellation-report-idUSKBN29R1M1 - '



-------------
'A man who does not think and plan long ahead will find trouble right at his door.'
--Confucius



Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: January 22 2021 at 1:50pm

I did see Olympics  are supposed to be back on again 

We will have to wait and see on that one........

I won't be holding my breath.....

Take care all 



-------------
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.πŸ––

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: January 22 2021 at 2:28pm

NPR: Coronavirus Crisis Gets 'Even Worse' In Brazilian Amazon City Of Manaus.

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/22/959567446/coronavirus-crisis-gets-even-worse-in-brazilian-amazon-city-of-manaus?ft=nprml&f=1001 - https://www.npr.org/2021/01/22/959567446/coronavirus-crisis-gets-even-worse-in-brazilian-amazon-city-of-manaus?ft=nprml&f=1001

Biden's election dosnt  seem to have reversed  Brazil's woes.......odd that !!!!



-------------
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.πŸ––

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: January 22 2021 at 4:32pm

Zerohedge, Cobber, really ? 

I give up!  



-------------
How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.


Posted By: cobber
Date Posted: January 22 2021 at 5:30pm

Firstly I'm not saying the virus doesn't exist. I'm saying its order of magnitude is somewhere close to the Asian and Hong Kong flus of the 50's and 60's. During those pandemics the world was not shut down. They made a mark in history, and we still talk about them today, but they weren't slate wipers. They mainly killed people with comorbidity and the elderly, which is the same as Covid.


I'm over the alarmist BS. I don't appreciate being called names. So please...


The numbers in the UK are closer to 1000 per day. Which is a lot, but considering that they use the WHO method to evaluate Covid deaths changes the result somewhat. The WHO test method says that if you test positive to Covid within 28 days of dying. You are marked down as a Covid death. This is even if you had Covid, got over it and died of something else.


The test that the WHO recommends was a PCR test with 40 cycles. Since May Last year we knew that 40 cycles would give a huge number of false positives. The WHO argued to keep it high on the grounds of "safety first". They changed their method literally the day Biden was sworn in. So both, case numbers and deaths will drop. 


Read into that what you will. 


I'm willing to bet money that the story over the next few months is, the vaccine is a miracle. The narrative will be Biden's war on Covid fought with the vaccine. Look at the amazing results. I also expect the story to get out that we need to be hero's and put a trillion dollars into vaccinating the third world. This will be at tax payers expense. 


Faucci just came out and said the WHO needs more funding. Literally the day after Biden was sworn in. This is a joke. The WHO is a political front. They made every call incorrectly. Case in point: We calculated 0.3% CFR in February last year. Its very easy to calculate. Surprisingly so. The WHO are only just starting to publish numbers close to this. The WHO are a Propaganda front. You are as dumb as $hit if you thing otherwise


It makes me angry that this deception goes on. 


Zero Hedge have been right on many occasions. Usually they are the first with real journalism. Again with the Ad Hominem attacks.



Posted By: KiwiMum
Date Posted: January 22 2021 at 9:46pm

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

I don't really have good answers for you yet.

Yes, the vaccines do make you imune to the disease in most cases (but not all - however 90 or 95% is a good score) and protect against severe disease in the other few vaccinated.   So they make good sense.  For those strains not covered (possibly the Brazilian) as they protect against the other strains, and thereby eliminate the post covid damage, they give some protection even there.

We are also hoping that if enough people are vaccinated, then we can achieve the fabled 'herd immunity'.  But the answer to that question is not simple.  The R0 goes up and down as new strains appear and as lockdowns and other methods are tried.  It is a goal, but we do not yet know how many have to have had the disease to achieve it.  We could make a few educated guesses, but then another strain emerges and it is back to the drawing board.  Just dropping the number of transmissions, will save many lives.


Basically, they do prevent disease in most cases and along with that at least reduce transmission (immune people still need to wash their hands).


No vaccine ever protects everyone (except in those cases where the disease goes extinct - like smallpox).  But protecting most people can be enough to improve things beyond all measure.  Don't let the perfect get in the way of the good.

So Techno, on this evening's news we had yet another clip from the BBC saying that scientists weren't sure if the vaccine would stop you catching covid. What it would do is stop so many people having a serious bout of it, but they said more than once that they don't know if it actually stops you from catching it, and they still believe that you will be infectious to other people even if you are vaccinated. They showed an animation saying that they believed that vaccinated people would still catch covid but the disease would stay in the upper airways (and they showed the mouth and throat in red) but wouldn't be deep seated and go into the lungs, and they said that upper respiratory cases are still contagious. 

I can't find evidence to support what you said about the vaccine making you immune to the disease. I wish I could and I'm hoping that you can provide the sources for that info for me as I really hope the vaccine can put an end to this, but from all that I've read, all I can find are claims that that it stops 90 odd % of recipients from developing serious complications. I suspect that because these vaccines are in the experimental stages and haven't carried out full safety trials, that simply enough time hasn't passed to find out the true effect the vaccines have on the disease. I'm still looking for clarification as there seems to be so much disinformation out there. 

My conclusion is that the vaccines available simply prevent the majority of people from getting seriously ill and therefore will save the health system. They will save lives by allowing the health system to function properly again and thereby allow other routine lifesaving medical procedures to go ahead in a timely manner.



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Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.


Posted By: ksc
Date Posted: January 23 2021 at 12:40am

It's too early to tell if the vaccines provide sterilizing immunity.


"The vaccine trials looked very closely at whether the vaccines prevented becoming infected with symptomatic COVID and the results were that both mRNA vaccines provided about 95% protection from that and just about 100% protection from severe illness.  That's huge in and of itself.  Beyond that, Moderna did look at a sub-population after the first dose and saw a lot less asymptomatic infections vs. placebo, but the sample size wasn't large enough to be definitive, although it's likely that that is the case.  In addition, as per my post above, in the Israeli vaccinations, they're seeing very high immune responses (up to 20X vs. infected/recovered patients), which makes it very likely that any infections that do result will likely not be serious and would be less likely to be infectious. 

 

But for now, we simply don't have definitive data on sterilizing immunity (where vaccinated people simply can't become infected, which is seen for some vaccines, but not others) or even the degree to which vaccinated, but infected people might still be infectious - we'd need data on viral loads of these people, along with well documented contact-transmission cases, which we simply don't have yet.  But it's known that vaccinated people will be infected far less than non-vaccinated people, so that reduced transmissions and it's a damn good guess to assume that vaccinated people who do get infected will, on average be less infectious than non-vaccinated people.  

 

We also have no indications that any of the new variants won't be protected against by the mRNA vaccines (and some work has been done to show that these variants should be protected against by the vaccines).  Eventually, variants could evolve which partially or completely escape vaccine protection, but the good news there is that when that happens, at least for the mRNA vaccines, producing a modified vaccine effective for that variant should only take 6-8 weeks - it wouldn't be guesswork.  But yes, many are speculating that the virus eventually becomes endemic, but more like the common cold, as per the article below."  

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/health/coronavirus-immunity-future.html" rel="external nofollow noopener" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(63, 102, 146); text-decoration: underline; background-color: transparent; transition: all 0.2s ease 0s; outline: 0px !important; - https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/health/coronavirus-immunity-future.html



Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: January 23 2021 at 8:05am

KiwiMum, the original figures published by Pfizer and Moderna were my main source, added to a pattern exhibited by vaccines in general.  

That is the best I can offer, until more is known.  Call it educated guesses if you wish.  I did say I had no good answers to that one.



-------------
How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.


Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: January 23 2021 at 8:43am

Originally posted by cobber cobber wrote:

The numbers in the UK are closer to 1000 per day. Which is a lot, but considering that they use the WHO method to evaluate Covid deaths changes the result somewhat. The WHO test method says that if you test positive to Covid within 28 days of dying. You are marked down as a Covid death. This is even if you had Covid, got over it and died of something else.

'And now they are finding covid deaths long after the 28 day period.  So the two sets of antagonistic numbers even out somewhat.  The current figure for the UK is 1,200 by the way and we are a small country.  

So what if the victims are usually older?   They are still people.  The huge case numbers also give more chances to mutate.


Originally posted by cobber cobber wrote:

The test that the WHO recommends was a PCR test with 40 cycles. Since May Last year we knew that 40 cycles would give a huge number of false positives. The WHO argued to keep it high on the grounds of "safety first". They changed their method literally the day Biden was sworn in. So both, case numbers and deaths will drop.
Yep, this will drop the case numbers.  It can't change the death rate though.  Test results show what is happening (or fail to), but they can't actually alter the numbers of sick and dying, only the tally of the sick.


Originally posted by cobber cobber wrote:

I'm willing to bet money that the story over the next few months is, the vaccine is a miracle. The narrative will be Biden's war on Covid fought with the vaccine. Look at the amazing results. I also expect the story to get out that we need to be hero's and put a trillion dollars into vaccinating the third world. This will be at tax payers expense.
Personally, I never minded paying a bit more to save lives.


Originally posted by cobber cobber wrote:

Faucci just came out and said the WHO needs more funding. Literally the day after Biden was sworn in. This is a joke. The WHO is a political front. They made every call incorrectly. Case in point: We calculated 0.3% CFR in February last year. Its very easy to calculate. Surprisingly so. The WHO are only just starting to publish numbers close to this. The WHO are a Propaganda front. You are as dumb as $hit if you thing otherwise

As dumb as $hit?  Now who is name calling?   What did I say that was as bad as that?

Faucci is an expert, and can finally say what he thinks.  

Yes, the WHO is political, but we still need them.   Being a member of the WHO gives more opportunites to change it from within.  It does need reform.  But just because they are crap at the job, does not mean the job is unnecessary.  He who pays the piper calls the tune.   With the USA out of the WHO, China called the tune.  


Finally:  Yes, Zerohedge have sometimes got stuff right, especially where financial investment is concerned; I won £600 on the lottery once, I don't have a hot line to correct numbers though.  

They however, all the time, are a far-right blog, not a right-leaning one or even a right-wing one.  They are a source of far-right conspiracy theories.  Their "Tyler Durden"  is in fact, Daniel Ivandjiiski**, who has been done for insider trading by the way.  To date Google ads, paypal, twitter have all banned the site for reasons of violation of policy standards. (With Google it was inciting hatred and violence.)  Facebook banned them too, but that was for rather less fair reasons of their own.  In that case (and that case only) Zerohedge was in the right.  






**Tyler Durden then was a son of a soviet (When Bulgaria was still within the Soviet union) who was a member of the "international Organisation of Journalists" which is a Russian propaganda organisation.  This does not mean he is a Putin Puppet, or that he follows in his dad's footsteps, but he is happy to stir trouble and there is no smoke without fire as they say.  Again, personally, I think he is only interested in moneymaking for himself, the harms done are not partisan, merely selfish.

But, in March 2020, American journalist Seth Hettena wrote an opinion-piece in The New Republic titled "Is Zero Hedge a Russian Trojan Horse?", and provided details on the links between Krassimir Ivandjiiski (the site publisher's Bulgarian father), and Soviet-era activities in propaganda, revealed during litigation initiated by the father against Hettena in the Bulgarian courts. Hettena commented that Zero Hedge has become "a forum for the hateful, conspiracy-driven voices of the angry white men of the alt-right. Racists, anti-Semites, extreme right-wingers, and conspiracy nuts were an underserved audience, and, as it turns out, a profitable one." - his words not mine.



-------------
How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.


Posted By: ViQueen24
Date Posted: January 23 2021 at 9:45am

And if this disease is killing < 1% of its victims or < Spanish Influenza or < the Tokyo Trots, but is still causing months-long and perhaps life-long illness in 20-25% people that incapacitates and prevents them from working, it doesn't matter so much that it's not "The Slate Wiper".  We don't just prep for " The Slate Wiper".  IMO, people who don't take this seriously enough are begging for this virus to come and prove them wrong.  And some of them will get their wish.



Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: January 23 2021 at 10:33am

We’re so used to discussing “slate wipers” that we forgot to prepare for a long, slow burn. It doesn’t need to kill huge numbers - it just needs to overwhelm our healthcare systems. That’s exactly where we are right now. 



-------------
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.


Posted By: KiwiMum
Date Posted: January 23 2021 at 11:13am

Originally posted by jacksdad jacksdad wrote:

We’re so used to discussing “slate wipers” that we forgot to prepare for a long, slow burn. It doesn’t need to kill huge numbers - it just needs to overwhelm our healthcare systems. That’s exactly where we are right now. 

Yes. I was reading in the British press about people with cancer who's treatment has been postponed, life saving operations delayed and their on going care effectively suspended. The article was saying that for many those delays may prove to be a death sentence. In an ideal world I guess we'd have 2 hospital systems: one for every day medical care and one for pandemics. 

How are you getting on at your hospital Jacksdad? It must be exhausting.



-------------
Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.


Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: January 23 2021 at 5:58pm

I sympathise JD, our healthcare system is on its last elbows too (it fell to its knees weeks ago) and is quaking and gasping under the strain.  People have been dying for months due to lack of healthcare, which was once freely available and is now suspended or rationed.

Bernard has now lost two people to heart disease which had suspended treatments due to covid.  "The heart disease could kill you, but the covid in the hospital definitely will so it is marginally safer to wait.  Oops!"  and friends all seem to be losing people in droves.  One friend has lost 3 family members so far and counting.  A couple of friends who are cancer patients are also having their life-extending chemo delayed, because of the increased risks.  (One is terminal - probably this month, the other having surgery anyway - NO SURRENDER.)

Now is a terrible time to get sick with anything at all.  My dog has canker (ears) and needs a vet, I need the dentist and we all skipped our flu jabs (too risky.)  Every time I phone our local Doctor's surgery, it is closed.  Earmites and a filling which needs replacing are not exactly life-threatening.  The earmites can be treated with stuff bought on ebay.  But once upon a time this was all so easy.


Our NHS has been our pride and joy for the whole of my life;  free, complete, available, but not now.  


Stay safe, Pal, don't let the first vaccine dose make you complacent.



-------------
How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.


Posted By: AI
Date Posted: January 23 2021 at 6:46pm

Interesting covid cases are DECREASING now throughout the US. But since Christmas was supposed to be a super spreading event with all the travel looks like everyone was wrong yet again. But it sure scared everyone out of Thanksgiving and Christmas didn't it . BAH BAH BAH.

I'm sure it has nothing to do with President BIDUM being sworn in and the time frame for the change in testing criteria. Just a coincidence right LOL 

 In what some have suggested is politicized timing, the World Health Organization on Wednesday changed the protocol for COVID-19 tests, which will result in large reductions in the numbers of positive cases. The body took this action just one hour after Joe Biden was sworn in as president of the United States.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/one-hour-after-biden-inaugurated-who-changes-covid-testing-criteria - https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/one-hour-after-biden-inaugurated-who-changes-covid-testing-criteria

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-19/covid-cases-fall-in-all-regions-even-as-u-s-faces-400-000-dead - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-19/covid-cases-fall-in-all-regions-even-as-u-s-faces-400-000-dead

https://www.daily-times.com/story/news/2021/01/18/covid-19-cases-reported-new-mexico-continue-decline/115327524/ - https://www.daily-times.com/story/news/2021/01/18/covid-19-cases-reported-new-mexico-continue-decline/115327524/

https://www.thespectrum.com/story/news/2021/01/18/gda-covid-19-state-2021-01-18-ut-pstg/43330893/ - https://www.thespectrum.com/story/news/2021/01/18/gda-covid-19-state-2021-01-18-ut-pstg/43330893/

https://www.courierpress.com/story/news/local/2021/01/19/indiana-covid-19-cases-update-testing/115327590/ - https://www.courierpress.com/story/news/local/2021/01/19/indiana-covid-19-cases-update-testing/115327590/

https://www.registerguard.com/story/news/2021/01/18/gda-covid-19-state-2021-01-18-or-nreg/115327416/ - https://www.registerguard.com/story/news/2021/01/18/gda-covid-19-state-2021-01-18-or-nreg/115327416/



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β€œFacts don't care about your feelings.”
― Ben Shapiro


Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: January 23 2021 at 7:10pm

That could be a result of the WHO suggested change in testing strategies that Cobber pointed out.  But whatever the case figures are, the deaths are still rising and that is a better indication; it can't be fudged or politicisized so easily.



-------------
How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.


Posted By: EdwinSm,
Date Posted: January 23 2021 at 10:47pm

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

But whatever the case figures are, the deaths are still rising and that is a better indication; it can't be fudged or politicisized so easily.


That is why I follow the death figures more than the case figures.  In an ideal world with widespread testing and the political will to report the actual figures then I would be following the case figures, but with so much under reporting (and changing definitions) then I feel that the death figures give a more accurate picture.  

Even with the death figures there can be much fudging of numbers (eg the UK's 'only report if within 28 days of covid', or Russia's 'only report if there are no other conditions', or China's 'don't report at all'), so 'excess deaths' is probably the best over all indicator of the total effect, as this includes both covid deaths and other deaths because 'covid patients are filling the hospital and regular treatment has been curtailed'.



Posted By: ViQueen24
Date Posted: January 24 2021 at 1:09pm

Our county's cases were going down the past week, but are back up again.  And PA's cases as a whole have been up since Halloween and remain high.



Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: January 25 2021 at 4:23pm


-------------
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.πŸ––

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: cobber
Date Posted: January 26 2021 at 6:35am

This situation where doctors were asked to not use a clinical diagnosis when determining if someone died of Covid is laughable. 

This was a global instruction. Every country, everywhere. The rule was if someone had covid within 28 days they were listed as a Covid death. They could have died of a car crash. (it happened)

Combine this with a super sensitive Covid test. Of course the numbers soared

https://twitter.com/donkamion78/status/1353100645771993088?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw - https://twitter.com/donkamion78/status/1353100645771993088?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw




Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: January 26 2021 at 7:35am

There are also people who die without a covid test ever being performed.  The increase in death toll (daily, weekly, or monthly) is all that can demonstrate an effect,  unless you can think of another cause for the current massive changes.  No one is publishing that a present (that I have found).  Only the covid figures are regularily circulated and the last time I checked, the INCREASE in death figures was LARGER than the official Covid death toll.

Odd though it might sound, even being run over CAN be a covid effect (the short-of-breath take longer to cross the road and the virus leaves neurological damage in quite a few cases) either by the victim or the driver being affected.  Admittedly this is unlikely, but not impossible.  The "happy hypoxic" are a distinct sub-group of sufferers, with LOTS of members.  Hypoxia both slows the sufferer down and can produce severe mental disruption.  The HHs are less likely to apply for a test as well.  There could be loads of dead people yet to be discovered at home.  Would you check on your elderly neighbours if your area was under lockdown?   I would consider it to be to big a risk, both for me and for them, unless I had a their telephone number.



-------------
How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.


Posted By: ViQueen24
Date Posted: January 26 2021 at 11:03am

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/i-m-looking-truth-states-face-criticism-covid-19-data-n1202086 - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/i-m-looking-truth-states-face-criticism-covid-19-data-n1202086

I'm looking for the truth': States face criticism for COVID-19 data cover-ups

The public must be given complete and accurate information about the coronavirus pandemic, experts said.

COVID-19 Testing Begins in Historic Black Neighborhoods in Altamonte Springs, US

Health workers test people in cars for COVID-19 at a mobile testing site at the Apostolic Church of Christ in Altamonte Springs, Florida, on April 21, 2020.Paul Hennessy / Barcroft Media via Getty Images file

May 25, 2020, 6:00 AM EDT

By Allan Smith

As states ramp up their reopenings, some are coming under criticism for making public misleading statistics or concealing information related to the coronavirus outbreak.


While the U.S. has reported more cases and deaths than any other country, the method for counting COVID-19 deaths varies by state. In testimony before the Senate earlier this month, Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation's top infectious disease expert, said the actual number of people who've died as a result of the pandemic is "almost certainly" higher than what's been counted.


Such data has been the basis for how quickly states are beginning to open up and return to a sense of normalcy. But government officials in a number of states are facing questions about how open and honest they're being about how the virus is impacting their state.


"Accurate, complete and timely information is the best way to understand, respond to and limit the impact of the virus on both health and the economy," Dr. Tom Frieden, who ran the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention under former President Barack Obama, told NBC News.


"This helps to set realistic expectations on how the pandemic will affect people's lives and to inform required changes in behavior to prevent the spread of the virus," he added.



Florida scientist says she was ousted after refusing to manipulate state’s COVID-19 data

MAY 20, 202005:35

Georgia officials have apologized and corrected what was described as a "processing error" that wrongly showed a downward trend in the number of new daily infections in the state, making it appear as if new infections had dropped every day for two weeks. The error was at least the third in three weeks, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported.


Georgia was among the first states to launch its reopening. Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp, a Republican, said the state on Tuesday recorded its lowest number of hospitalized patients since it began tracking such data in early April.


In the neighboring state of Florida, which has also moved expeditiously in reopening swathes of its economy, several data-related controversies also have brewed.


According to internal emails obtained by the Tampa Bay Times, state officials directed a top Florida Department of Health data manager earlier this month to remove data from public view that showed Florida residents had reported coronavirus-associated symptoms before cases were officially announced. The emails showed that the data manager, Rebekah Jones, had complied with the order but said it was the "wrong call."


Jones was taken off her role maintaining the state's coronavirus dashboard one day after that directive. She told a local CBS affiliate that she refused to "manually change data to drum up support for the plan to reopen" Florida. Last week, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, a Republican, said Jones was under "active criminal charges" for cyber stalking and cyber sexual harassment.


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Meanwhile, Florida officials last month stopped releasing the list of coronavirus deaths being compiled by the state's medical examiners, which had at times shown a higher death toll than the total being published by the state. State officials said that list needed to be reviewed as a result of the discrepancy.


A spokesman for the state Health Department said the medical examiners had a different method for reporting deaths and that it was untrue "that deaths have been hidden."


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"The government has one mission; academics and scholars have a very different mission," Dr. Dean Hart, an expert on viral transmission and former Columbia University professor who has run for the New York State Assembly as a Democrat, told NBC News.


"As a scientist, I'm looking for the truth, the heck with who it hurts politically," he added.


Amid reopening in Arizona, the state Department of Health Services cut off a team of Arizona State and University of Arizona experts who provided pandemic modeling specific to the state, saying it was no longer needed as the state preferred to use a federal model. After a backlash, the Health Department reinstated the team, though it's unclear whether state officials are using the local universities' work in their decision-making.


Since that dust up, Arizona State released new data showing infections and hospitalizations in the state could soar this summer.



CDC conflates diagnostic, antibody test data creating 'inaccurate' portrayal of virus

MAY 21, 202002:33

The CDC and at least 11 other states have been combining the results of viral tests showing active infections with the results of antibody tests, which show whether someone had been infected in the past.While boosting a state's total testing number, health experts have said that practice does not give a proper picture of how the virus is spreading, the Associated Press reported.


The CDC announced it planned to separate the data and some of those states have stopped doing so or committed to change course, CNN reported.


In New York City, the hardest-hit locale in the nation, local officials last week released COVID-19 data broken down by zip code after pressure to go beyond the county-by-county totals that had previously been shown. Such information made it easier to understand which communities were being most affected by the virus.


The top issue nationally related to the publication of specific coronavirus data involving nursing home cases and deaths, where state and local officials have faced intense scrutiny over the collection and release of such information. The virus has hit nursing homes exceptionally hard — a result of both their residents' vulnerability and policies states and localities have put into place.


In one such example, Arizona officials argued this month they should not reveal the names of facilities with outbreaks because it could give those nursing homes a stigma and could lead to discrimination against them. The argument was made in response to a lawsuit from Arizona news outlets demanding the state provide information on COVID-19 cases in nursing homes and other data.


In Pennsylvania, state officials released such data last week after weeks of delay and in the face of significant pressure.


The federal government, on the other hand, plans to publish such information by the end of May.


Hart said more information on nursing homes could paint a clearer picture of what happened specifically in New York with the spread of COVID-19. New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, a Democrat, has come under fire for his administration's March order that nursing homes must accept coronavirus patients. That order was reversed earlier this month.


The group Frieden now leads as president and CEO, Resolve to Save Lives, released a list of suggested criteria to adjust social distancing measures based on key indicators that he believes should be available in every city, state and country. Those indicators include case-count trends and health system and testing capacity to create an alert index for a specific area's level of risk.


He said much would be improved if the CDC would provide and explain the meaning of such data, adding though "much more information is available, it has not been standardized, validated and presented in clear and compelling ways." 



Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: January 26 2021 at 1:38pm

Originally posted by cobber cobber wrote:

This situation where doctors were asked to not use a clinical diagnosis when determining if someone died of Covid is laughable. 

This was a global instruction. Every country, everywhere. The rule was if someone had covid within 28 days they were listed as a Covid death. They could have died of a car crash. (it happened)

Combine this with a super sensitive Covid test. Of course the numbers soared

https://twitter.com/donkamion78/status/1353100645771993088?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw - https://twitter.com/donkamion78/status/1353100645771993088?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw


My mother in law in UK  had Covid died a week after hospital admission, 

Death recorded as pneumonia......

How do you account for that in your statistics  ?

Over in 30 days,.....you said that months ago doesn't seem to be getting any better......!!!!!



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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.πŸ––

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: January 26 2021 at 2:03pm

Sympathies again, Carbon.  



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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.


Posted By: cobber
Date Posted: February 04 2021 at 4:52am

Daily Mail Article

Why ARE COVID cases plummeting? New infections have fallen 45% in the US and 30% globally in the past 3 weeks but experts say vaccine is NOT the main driver because only 8% of Americans and 13% people worldwide have received their first dose


Its like someone waved a little magic wand. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9219379/Why-coronavirus-cases-falling-fast-New-infections-drop-44-three-weeks.html#comments - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9219379/Why-coronavirus-cases-falling-fast-New-infections-drop-44-three-weeks.html#comments



Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: February 04 2021 at 1:59pm

Daily Mail......lmao

Daily Fail more like...




Maybe the social distancing ,and mask wearing really work?!!!!!!?

I'm guessing it is the science not the looney toons..... conspiracy theories.......

Kelly, Evans loonies....

That seem to keep getting shot out of the water......

Take care all πŸ˜·πŸ˜‰




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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.πŸ––

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: roni3470
Date Posted: February 04 2021 at 7:47pm

I thought you said the magic wand would be waved 30 days from the original post of this topic?!?!  You need some new material!



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NOW is the Season to Know

that Everything you Do

is Sacred


Posted By: ME163
Date Posted: February 04 2021 at 8:30pm

Anyone who says this virus is going to over in 30 days is not only wrong, but has done a great disservice to the group.  We are going to be in this for at least 6 more months.  We aren't stupid.  All you have to do is look at the covid trackers sites.  450,000 Americans have died from covid 19..  I almost became one of them.  





Posted By: cobber
Date Posted: February 05 2021 at 1:42am

I have been here for at least ten years. Over that time I've learnt a lot. Before Covid we would asses new viral threats. We used fact and evidence to understand and eventually develop conclusions.


Since Covid this has all gone out the window. Its political spin and alarmist news stories which dominate.  I'm trying to wrestle back the site and bring back some reality.


I still call this a Powderpuff. It's somewhere close to the magnitude of the Hong Kong Flu. Its a big event, but not worthy of shutting everything down. 


Bottom line. There has been no statistically significant increase in death rate from any country. In many countries the death rate has actually dropped. This should be all the evidence you need. The virus has been hugely exaggerated. 



Posted By: ViQueen24
Date Posted: February 05 2021 at 8:24am

"Wrestle back the site" as a response to someone who has had the disease that you have not?!  Unbelievable!  The only thing that keeps me from saying what I really feel is that if I do, someone whom I respect will give me an unpleasant warning.  So therefore I will just say you are living in a fantasy, and you are asking for this virus or one of its mutant variations to come and get you.  And you don't want that.

And your 30 days has elapsed 4 1/2 times over now, and counting.



Posted By: WitchMisspelled
Date Posted: February 05 2021 at 9:55am

cobber, I get why you continually call Covid a "powderpuff" and that you compare it to HK flu.  Worldwide HK flu killed anywhere between 1,000,000 to 4,000,000 people where Covid has thus far killed "only" over 2,000,000.  

But there's two things you're forgetting here:

1. Covid is no over yet. HK flu killed approximately 100,000 Americans where Covid has thus far killed over 467,000. Projections are that fatalities will be 500,000 by the middle of February. I wouldn't call that a "powder puff".

2.  You mention you joined the forum 10 years ago.  In that 10 years many of us have aged into the high risk category.  So for those members, there is the sense of catastrophe for which you complain.

As far as the politicization of Covid, I'm not sure what you missed that I caught on to, but this forum simply mirrored much of what America, and the rest of the world has seen:   A tragic mishandling of resources, planning and information that bordered on disregard for human life.



Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: February 05 2021 at 11:10am

Thing with cobber is he's sitting pretty in safe Adelaide Australia which has not been touched the thankfully.....,

Be a very different story of he was living in Birmingham UK,with my Mom who's been lockdown for months ,

And working in the healthcare industry....

Instead he tries to defend the the inane idea this is nothing......

He tried to say the authorities are closing countries for no reason.....

SERIOUSLY.........!!!???

Take care all πŸ˜·πŸ˜‰



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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.πŸ––

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: WitchMisspelled
Date Posted: February 05 2021 at 6:17pm

Oh!  So you're saying cobber has no skin in this game.  Makes sense.  



Posted By: ME163
Date Posted: February 05 2021 at 7:08pm

Let's just say that those who are impacted by covid have a different perspective from Cobber,  It's like someome without a disability say that disability is no problem because he or she has not experienced the said situation.  There is a saying, if you want understand a person, walk a mile in his shoes.  I don't think Cobber has experienced the terror of gasping for air, of being intubated or drowning in your own liquids.  Has he had his last riites given to him and the sound of alarms going off in your room..,,,  Don't doubt my pain, my suffering or my severe neurological issues..   Ignorance is bliss, they say...




Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: February 05 2021 at 9:35pm

ME163, I hope you will see your health returning soon. Sometimes it is good to put yourself in someone else his/her position-sometimes taking a lot of distance can help getting a perspective as well...

I would LOVE "Covid being over in 30 days"!!!! I would love to believe we could get out of this pandemic by summer...

When I think of this pandemic it is horror...a nightmare lasting much to long. Denial can be a way to survive...[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_Is_Beautiful[/url] or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_Is_Beautiful - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_Is_Beautiful ; Benigni plays Guido Orefice, a  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Jews" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(11, 0, 128); background: none rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" title="Italian Jews - Jewish Italian  bookshop owner, who employs his fertile imagination to shield his son from the horrors of internment in a  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camp" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(11, 0, 128); background: none rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" title="Nazi concentration camp - Nazi concentration camp .

DJ-We may be moving towards "another world" and denial of that is part of a process...



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We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein


Posted By: ME163
Date Posted: February 05 2021 at 9:56pm

Dutch,  

Thank you for the reply.  Yes, everyone has to see a different point of view.  I see the world from reality.  What is and what isn't. Not what a person wants the world to be.  O f course, we want covid gone in 30 days.... Sorry to say that it's not going to happen... 



Posted By: ViQueen24
Date Posted: February 06 2021 at 8:54am

Yes, as Witchy says (thanks, Witchy, for your very reasoned and reasonable response.  You said what I would've if I wasn't sick and tired of arguing this topic with wishful thinkers and head-in-the-sanders in my private life whose knowledge of medicine and this virus would fit on the head of a pin, with room left over for a legion of angels to dance.  But I digress).  I myself have aged since I joined in 2013, from where I was used to getting the flu once a year and being sick for a week or so like most people, to someone who almost wound up in the hospital from her last bout with the flu 4 years ago, and a very minor allergy attack had me down with bronchitis for more than 2 weeks 2 years ago.  This virus, if it didn't kill me, would most likely disable me forever.



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I am the DZ Queen, and I approve this message.


Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: February 06 2021 at 9:49am

The truth of covid is not hiding in the millions it has killed, but in the many times as many millions it would have killed without the epidemiological methods currently employed.  It currently kills around 3 in every thousand.  Extrapolate that figure to the world's population and up to 23 million could die.  

Additionally that could rise further, if health systems become overwhelmed and could rise yet again, if a nastier strain emerges.*  

The reason this is as low as it it, is because a few epidemiologists have managed to convince their governments of the need for extreme measures.







*The more cases there are, the more mutations can happen.  3 nastier so far, and it has not finished yet.



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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.


Posted By: ME163
Date Posted: February 06 2021 at 2:16pm

Those who deny the plague around us do us a ultimate disservice.  We, who have been scared by this menace have no choice but to fight the ignorance.  We are witnesses against the virus and our indictment against the virus is DAMMING. for 8 months I fought this thing and it's long term rampage.  Don't care who says denial is good... it is not against a monster like this one. 




Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: February 06 2021 at 2:31pm

I was watching a news program  (al jazerra)

The dreaded word recombination  pop it's  head up.....

Unless all travel  is stopped for 12 weeks we are going to mutations on the variants.......

Great to have you back ME bet your grey cells getting a good work out reading all the good ,bad,controversial, discourse we get into on here.......enjoy......good therapy.......

Take care all



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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.πŸ––

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: ME163
Date Posted: February 06 2021 at 2:40pm

Thanks, Carbon... 

How are the quokka's ?




Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: February 06 2021 at 2:54pm

Quokka's are great little creatures, 

just if your camping make sure your food is well locked up.......lol




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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.πŸ––

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: ViQueen24
Date Posted: February 06 2021 at 4:08pm

ME163, you're a soldier in this battle -- keep up the good fight, you have my respect and prayers.



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I am the DZ Queen, and I approve this message.


Posted By: ME163
Date Posted: February 06 2021 at 4:57pm

Queen, 

I am outraged by the numskulls who keep peddling stupidity. 




Posted By: ViQueen24
Date Posted: February 06 2021 at 5:12pm

I hear you, and I'm glad to see that in spite of the fact that you're still suffering, you are fighting against the misinformation and misapprehensions.  I'm proud to fight that battle also, even though I don't have the first-hand experience you do.  And I hope I never do.



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I am the DZ Queen, and I approve this message.


Posted By: cobber
Date Posted: February 07 2021 at 6:37am

Again to clarify what I said. I said the virus would be over after the US election. However because the potential legal challenge to the result and Trump not conceding there was a prolonged decision. 


On the 13 January the WHO changed the Covid assessment standard. This was just after Trumps challenge was squashed. Perfect timing... 


The case numbers have rapidly declined since this day (13th Jan). See New York Times.

https://www.nytimes3xbfgragh.onion/interactive/2020/us/new-york-coronavirus-cases.html - https://www.nytimes3xbfgragh.onion/interactive/2020/us/new-york-coronavirus-cases.html


It hasn't dropped due to vaccinations. This has already been discussed. Not enough of them to have an effect yet



My original post:

COVID is a Powderpuff. 

The narrative will be dead after the US election. About two weeks later its will be flushed down the memory hole.


I made this prediction in July. 


You have been lied to and its blatantly obvious. Stop crying. Its WMD's all over again. 



Covid is a POWDERPUFF!!!!




Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: February 07 2021 at 7:12am

It has killed people who matter to me personally.  

It has damaged Me163 in a massive way. 

If it were not for the lockdowns (damaging and killing in themselves) it would have killed many more in its exponential spread.


What do you class as a powderpuff; gunpowder on steel wool?



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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.


Posted By: cobber
Date Posted: February 07 2021 at 7:47am

This may be a bit much for you all. I get it. Some of you see me saying its a powderpuff like I'm saying it wasn't deadly or dangerous.. 


Yes it is dangerous. Yes it is scary. I'm not saying we shouldn't take measures. Of course we should be careful.


The issue I have is that the risks were greatly exaggerated. It was done deliberately. The virus was used as a political tool. The world was shut down. It destroyed many markets and killed many businesses. Much of it unnecessary


The global economy stopped!


I can hear you scoffing though the internet right now. I'm sure your are spitting up you Wheaties at this. The economy isn't important when lives are at stake!  Bwahhhaa..cry..cry bah


Get over yourselves. The world economy is super important. There are countries who were hanging on by a thread. Many African nations were already struggling to feed their populations. 


I'm hearing over 200 million people will die from the famine caused by the global shut down. 


You wont hear it on the news.


That's not a powderpuff. 



Posted By: cobber
Date Posted: February 07 2021 at 7:58am

200 Million 


https://news.yahoo.com/davos-2021-covid-19-hunger-pandemic-climate-change-mark-rutte-david-beasley-093026069.html - https://news.yahoo.com/davos-2021-covid-19-hunger-pandemic-climate-change-mark-rutte-david-beasley-093026069.html



Posted By: ViQueen24
Date Posted: February 07 2021 at 9:05am

Yeah, God, what did we ever do before there was a global economy?  (Eye roll).  When this thing is all over, maybe 2024, if we're lucky and the mutations don't recombine, then talk to me.

I'm not a big believer in betting on luck.

If we were so concerned about some of these countries who were hanging on by a thread, we could have helped them long before this.  Instead some of us elected a president who called those countries "sh*thole", and said "America First".  And really, if the rest of the world behaved much differently, I'm not seeing it.




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I am the DZ Queen, and I approve this message.


Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: February 07 2021 at 1:16pm

In comparison to America's generous past, Trump was rather 'in your face' with his selfishness.  

But no, no one else looks particularily good at present.   International responses have all looked like:  "Me first, s*d you!"

Yet every country where it persists is a petri-dish breeding new variants, so this is stupid as well as selfish.

Welcome to the human race - race being the operative word - winner take all.



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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: February 08 2021 at 12:47am

I'm starting to think the human population of earth is in a lot more trouble than we realise with the advent of a multitude of variations in covid...

I can't see Australia opening up to the rest of the world without 2 weeks quarantine for years even with a vaccine....

Take care all πŸ˜·πŸ˜‰

..



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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.πŸ––

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: WitchMisspelled
Date Posted: February 08 2021 at 6:20am

A relative and I were discussing the other day that Covid, as frightening as it is and as deadly as it has been has one upside.  It has uncovered and highlighted many of the world's ills.. such as disparity in food security.  

Cobber, I'm not sure those 200 million would have all survived even without lockdowns.  If you've read anything on climate change, those vulnerable people who lack food security are even more vulnerable because of climate change, more so than Covid lockdowns.  What I mean to say is that these countries with vulnerable populations are generally 3rd world countries that did not get all the help they required from 1st world food producing nations. Like the U.S.  The argument can be made that if the U.S. did not lock down that it could have provided that assistance, but the fact remains that the U.S. is experiencing droughts in its food producing regions and have been for years.  So it's safe to say that Covid highlighted the need for climate change mitigation measures.  



Posted By: ME163
Date Posted: February 08 2021 at 7:25am

Witchy, 

Covid has exposed a lot of injustices and fallacies of the international system and the local systems as well.  

1, why has the vaccine rollout  been so disjointed and skewed toward the rich ?  The fact is that many of the most vulnerable did not get the shot in the first phase of the plan.  Rich people got a work around.  

2. The areas that were most in need of support and vaccines did not get them and never will.  We don't care about poor people or old or disabled people.  If  I  did not have my dad's company insurance plan, I would be six feet under because his old boss stepped in and  saved my ass and did the work around.  

3.  Global food insecurity is a distribution issue.  If the local leadership feels the heat, then viola the food appears.  Famines are intentional.  Famine and food supply issues are a weapon used by the rich to destroy opposition and to dominate subjects.  As a historian and scholar, t have studied famine and why it happens I can give many examples of deliberate famine.  

4. Crisis is an opportunity to destroy community and to exploit people.  The pandemic is a perfect chance to restrict civil rights constitutional protections and strip people of property rights.  Both sides of the political spectrum are guilty of insane and unconstitutional laws, restrictions and downright power grabs.   We are going to have our rights stripped faster than a cheap stripper in  a local honky tonk strip joint takes off her clothes for a 20 dollar bill.   Civil liberties are being smashed, gun rights are bieng stripped and taxes are going to be very oppressive when this pandemic ends.  

5.  The passing of the torch.  China has been playing the long game for quite some time andi it is now the winner of the pandemic.  Trump presented the CCP with a bonanza of intel and advantage,  The west is now dead. Putin has now made the transformation from a superpower to a regional power, realizing the new power of china.  India has to play catch up  and or placate the new master of the game. 

6,  We hjave squandered our advantages and therefore are going to have massive problems in the next few years. 







Posted By: ViQueen24
Date Posted: February 08 2021 at 9:47am

Witchy, ME, I believe you are right.  Sad.  So much for the "glory days".

And Carbon, if, as I fear, a couple of the variants recombine, we are screwed.  Period.



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I am the DZ Queen, and I approve this message.


Posted By: cobber
Date Posted: February 10 2021 at 7:01pm

Covid disappearing rapidly.  Why! why is it happening?


https://image.assets.pressassociation.io/v2/image/production/e3d9182b34ad4919683960661444502bY29udGVudHNlYXJjaCwxNjEzMDg2NjE1/2.58008256.jpg?w=1280">https://imag


Answer: In part its because the WHO changed their assessment protocol on the 13th of January. Its not the only reason, but its the one with the most impact. And people wonder why Trump wanted to defund the WHO. 

Approximately 80% of diagnosed cases under the old protocol were false. 


Powderpuff. 



Posted By: ViQueen24
Date Posted: February 11 2021 at 10:28am

Lips red much?  Eye roll.



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I am the DZ Queen, and I approve this message.


Posted By: cobber
Date Posted: February 14 2021 at 6:06am


Covid is almost over... 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9250773/UK-announces-13-494-coronavirus-cases-678-deaths.html - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9250773/UK-announces-13-494-coronavirus-cases-678-deaths.html


80% reduction in 30 days




Posted By: cobber
Date Posted: February 14 2021 at 6:17am

Cases in the US are down 57% since January.  

Almost over    

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/02/the-pandemics-deadly-winter-surge-is-rapidly-easing/618005/ - https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/02/the-pandemics-deadly-winter-surge-is-rapidly-easing/618005/






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