Reducing carbon by 50%......
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URL: http://www.avianflutalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=43895
Printed Date: April 28 2024 at 5:29am
Topic: Reducing carbon by 50%......
Posted By: carbon20
Subject: Reducing carbon by 50%......
Date Posted: April 22 2021 at 5:15am
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The only way this can occur is if we all stay home for 3.5 days a week and not do anything........ No cooking,no cups of tea,no washing,no farting,no using air conditioning,no heating, No Nothing....so please tell me how it's going to work..... And how is this different than Kyoto target's...... wasn't that reduce by 50% of 1990 levels...... Bring on the "slate wiper"....... Its the only way...... ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖 Marcus Aurelius |
Replies:
Posted By: EdwinSm,
Date Posted: April 22 2021 at 10:16pm
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It does seem an almost impossible goal without a vast reduction in population (without cremation, which would add more carbon into the air). In your case you can start with your forum name. Carbon20 could become Car10 or Bon10 |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: April 23 2021 at 2:05am
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Lol EdwinSm,your humor always makes me smile....😉 I picked my user name from Star Trek the motion picture..... It's the story of Viger,which turns out to be voyager 1which got an upgrade,went looking for its maker,only to find earth infested with carbon based beings (us)......so it wanted to wipe out the Carbon infestation....of course JT Kirk,and Spock saved the planet....... Can't see them riding to the rescue here..... ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖 Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: WitchMisspelled
Date Posted: April 23 2021 at 5:48am
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FWIW, an individual's carbon foot print is tiny. A corporate carbon foot print is huge. This isn't about what you or I do. It's about what corporations should be forced to do to minimize emissions. 50% reduction is pie in the sky IMHO, unless major reform is legislated. That's not going to happen in the current climate. Not saying it shouldn't be done, of course. But realistically, it won't be done. We'll be lucky if we can cut it by 25% |
Posted By: CRS, DrPH
Date Posted: April 23 2021 at 2:32pm
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I've worked in greenhouse gas mitigation (now called "deep decarbonization") since the early 1980s, and this is possible. a) We have to acknowledge that the era of fossil energy is over. Already, major US coal producers are bankrupt, and power utilities are closing coal-fired boilers or converting these to natural gas as fast as they can. b) There are many alternatives to ancient carbon for energy. I've built large biomethane generating plants for food processing factories, and some of these are able to meet nearly all of their boiler fuel demands simply by treating their waste. Such plants are being built worldwide, and the biomethane is being cleaned to pipeline quality and sold as "renewable natural gas." Folks are making a ton of money from this. c) Huge strides are being made in wind and photovoltaic electrical generation. New sources of energy are being developed by harvesting the waste heat from huge server farms for crytocurrency etc. to generate electricity. Geothermal energy is largely untapped, and new sources including capturing the energy of tides are being developed. This is the problem - we don't have a lot of time to do this, and we keep messing up the atmosphere every day. Carbon dioxide emissions are a product of electricity production, transportation and industry. The United States alone emits more than 5 billion metric tons of CO2 annually — the weight of 13.2 million fully loaded Boeing 747s, or roughly 68,000 Washington Monuments. The technology is there, but the political will, particularly in China, is not. Just to keep warming below 2ºC, we need to remediate 20 gigatons of carbon out of the atmosphere EVERY YEAR! Technologies that can do this are just being developed. So, the question isn't "Can this be done?" because it can be. However, "Will this be done?" is something altogether different. Rising sea levels may wake people up. Imagine if Shanghai China, Mumbai India, New York City and so forth were destroyed by rising seas from collapse of Antarctic ice sheets. That is what it may take. Cheers, Charles ------------- CRS, DrPH |
Posted By: ViQueen24
Date Posted: April 24 2021 at 8:56am
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IMO The Last Days Of Ancient Sunlight should be required reading. ------------- I am the DZ Queen, and I approve this message. |
Posted By: WitchMisspelled
Date Posted: April 24 2021 at 3:49pm
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Dang... that's not on Audible. |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: April 24 2021 at 3:53pm
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ViQueen24 wrote:Posted By: ViQueen24
Date Posted: April 25 2021 at 7:46am
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I hope if anyone reads it they share their thoughts. Carbon, when I was a teenager, my mother told me there was a handful of things I needed to know how to do before she would be comfortable with me being on my own -- cook, clean, laundry, iron clothes, grocery shop frugally, and balance a checkbook. Sewing enough to repair simple tears and sew on buttons I had learned in school. But you are right -- last year before Covid, I was talking to my Asst. Manager, married, approx. 26 yo. And he said he didn't know how to iron. I told him most laundry has care instructions that tell you what setting the iron should be on, and modern irons have numbers that match the settings -- polyesters, cotton, linen, etc. -- just match 'em up, and learn which materials need steam and which ones shouldn't be and you're golden. Practice on a towel or something till you get the technique. Use distilled water in the iron. Not hard! ------------- I am the DZ Queen, and I approve this message. |
Posted By: ME163
Date Posted: April 25 2021 at 9:14am
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Ok, so what about us. So do we accept that modern medical systems will no longer exist ? As for myself and the people around us, we need that technology to live. So do you wipe the slate clean of us ? Look, Our lives are not worthless. I will not accept a life of no meds, no services , no support. If we go, you go too. One day, your child or grandchild is going to need services or technology to live. What are you going to do then, wipe the slate clean of them ? The problem with a carbon reduction world is that it's pretty much a death sentence for millions of us and some of you too. We need to do two things, protect the weak and disabled and find workable solutions to the issue. Sounds like Soylent Green to me. |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: April 25 2021 at 3:39pm
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Soylent Green indeed...... On streaming services here now, Some people living like that now...... Main problem with the human population is we are too populus...... Since 1850 we have put 6 billion people on the planet,it took 100 years from 1860 to 1950 to increase the population by 1billion ,we are now putting 1billion souls on this planet every 7 years, We are releasing millions of tonnes of carbon that has been stored for millions of years virtually over night......for what.....so we can fly/drive leave lights on all night,watch TV,all for our enjoyment....what a waste of resources..... So explain to me how we are going to reduce carbon in the atmosphere,it's not possible........even going to the lavatory releases methane....... I worry alot about what will happens when my grandchildren are my age...I'll be gone by then..... I don't know what your medical history is ME163,one of my good friends is severely disabled,(people go up to him in the shopping mall and whisper in his ear ,you shouldn't be alive.....I tell him he's here to show us abled bodied how lucky we are ) he has to have care 24/7, if he lived in a 3rd world country he would have died at birth.... One thing to remember...... "No-one gets out of this life alive"........ (Quote from the late great Clive James) ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖 Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: KiwiMum
Date Posted: April 25 2021 at 4:15pm
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I'm sorry to say I don't hold out much hope on humanity sorting this mess out for themselves for the very simple reason that everyone wants rules to apply to other people but they themselves want to be exempt. We've lived in an off grid house for 13 years, we produce all our own protein and our house is super efficient with energy. We supply all our own water and process all our waste water and sewage. And I can tell you that living like this is a) extremely expensive - the set up cost of this kind of home and lifestyle block is huge, and the maintenance is expensive too. b) it's time consuming and labourious. The sad fact in life is that whatever you do, you pay for it either in hard cash or in labour. I buy whole foods and I cook from scratch to give my family the best possible diet, alot of what we eat is home grown, including most of the meat, and the rest is locally sourced (except for the bananas) and I spend so many hours every day cooking. What's the alternative? Well I could buy in ready meals and abandon my principles about food mileage. So the upshot is that the masses won't do this. They'll change to eco friendly lightbulbs and recycle their wine bottles and all will be well until the next iphone comes out and then they MUST have it. Our downfall as a species will come from our inability to curb our consumerism. It's as simple as that. There's no way the masses could live like my family does. Just the amount of wiring and plumbing that has been fitted into this house to make it power friendly and efficient beggars belief. We have about 3 times the amount of plumbing as a normal house so that our heating system can run on convection and not be pumped, and all of it in copper not plastic so it'll last. The technology required to make it look effortless is ridiculous and not very planet friendly. Could we have done it differently? Yes. We could have gone back to the year 1900 and lived without the solar heated water and off grid power and satelite internet. We could have lived in a shack but that would have isolated us from our peers and society in general. In order to live a zero carbon lifestyle in the 2020's it cost a fortune and used enough resources to equip 3 houses all crammed into one. It's madness. Complete madness. IMHO, the only thing that will reduce the carbon output is a slate wiper. One that takes out 75% of the humans and allows the remaining 25% to start again. ------------- Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts. |
Posted By: KiwiMum
Date Posted: April 25 2021 at 4:27pm
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I'll go further and say this: if we were really serious about making a difference the kind of changes all of us in the Western world would have to make would be along the lines of
As you can see from my quick list, a future like this seems awful. It's turning back the clock and who in their right minds would want to go there????? In my country they keep talking about it being a human right to be able to sit in your home in just a tee shirt in the middle of winter - saying that those who need to add a jumper to feel warm are in some way being let down by society. This is madness. ------------- Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts. |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: April 25 2021 at 5:23pm
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I believe that in Biden's plan ,air travel ,and shipping are not included in the reduction of CO2....... So no it cannot succeed.....as these are main contributes to carbon pollution..... Have you any idea how much diesel a container ship uses an hour ??,it's frightening..... Take care all 😷😉 ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖 Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: ViQueen24
Date Posted: April 25 2021 at 9:48pm
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My bad, Witchy, it's Last Hours Of Ancient Sunlight, and here it is: https://www.audible.com/search?keywords=last+hours+of+ancient+sunlight&ref=a_ep_freetr_t1_header_search - https://www.audible.com/search?keywords=last+hours+of+ancient+sunlight&ref=a_ep_freetr_t1_header_search ME, I don't think anybody here wants the slate-wiper. I just think most of us feel that while we humans have options, we're not optimistic about getting enough people on board in time to forestall what is almost definitely inevitable. Besides getting regular middle-class people to curtail their lifestyles, there are people who make big money trashing the environment. And they pay the politicians to look the other way and do nothing so they can keep doing it. Like the fracking going on here in PA and elsewhere. Groundwater contamination, methane emissions, wasting a hideous amount of water, earthquakes, increase in asthma around fracking sites. There are many aspects of our modern civilization that are no longer sustainable. Scientists and politicians have known this since the 70's at least. The knowledge of what is wrong and how to fix it has always been there. The willingness has not, and probably never will be. We have seen the enemy and it is us. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/08/01/magazine/climate-change-losing-earth.html?mtrref=www.bing.com&gwh=2F028891DEB874469D60EE38688260B9&gwt=regi&assetType=REGIWALL - https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/08/01/magazine/climate-change-losing-earth.html?mtrref=www.bing.com&gwh=2F028891DEB874469D60EE38688260B9&gwt=regi&assetType=REGIWALL ------------- I am the DZ Queen, and I approve this message. |
Posted By: ME163
Date Posted: April 25 2021 at 10:59pm
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The simple fact is that you just don't get it. We are all going to go down the rabbits hole. I live in a small house. I keep my bills down. I don't waste energy. I stay out of debt. How do I do it. I reject consumerism. I have maybe 2 TVs one pc, I don't own a new car. I put maybe 5000 mile on it a year. My main expense is food and that is about 300 a month. My dad's insurance company pays for my meds now. The worst of it is that my trash bill is more expensive than my electric bill. It's a simple life. I don't travel much anymore. When was the last time I flew in a plane ? Just after 9/11. i think my taxes were 300 dollars a year for property. I just want to keep what i have, It's not a deal breaker. Just about everyone around me has much more waste than I do. |
Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: April 25 2021 at 11:13pm
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DJ Most people now live in urban area's with lots of facilities within a 30 minutes bike ride (NOT a motor-bike !). Still most places look like a parking space with houses on it...bad government ruled by fossil fuel/car-industry. That has to change ! And "e-cars" are still cars ! If we turn places now used for parking cars into green/agriculture area's food can be grown near where consumers live ! Of course meat production has to decrease-or stop. Maybe looking at the 50% as a goal-and at least start taking some steps would be a good beginning. The BIG PROBLEM is "politics" say one thing do the other thing...We can do so much more with so much less ! Tax rules making consumption more expensive, give money for "good eco-friendly" issues is another step most countries simply fail to make... Why getting a bike (repair) has to be in high AVT ? Why there is still NO TAX on air travel kerosine ? (Answer; automobile lobby, air transport/manufacteror lobby, Military Indistrial Complex-Pentagon is main enviromental destroyer..fossil fuel lobby...governments have to work for the people NOT the big companies !!!) ------------- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. ~Albert Einstein |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: April 25 2021 at 11:14pm
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I only have a small car,i catch public transport every day, It's not the likes of you and I ME163 causing climate change it's all of the human population everything we do contributes to it..... There is no answer apart from reducing the human population..... Don't get me wrong I don't like the idea ,I'm just a realist, and I can not see another way, Well I can ,that is to vent all the carbon we burn into space,how to do that I don't know...... Take care all 😷😉 ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖 Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: ViQueen24
Date Posted: April 26 2021 at 8:36am
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Yep, ME, I live exactly the way you describe. I am almost 56. Have not been on a plane since 1968. Rode a bus to Niagara everytime I went. I don't have the latest phone, tv, gadgets or clothes. I use my clothes and electronics till they're used up or donate them. My computer is from 2009. I put so few miles on my car that I don't have to do yearly emissions inspections. You and I will probably squeak by without paying the price described here before we die. But those of you with kids and grandkids, I'm not so sure. If you read that document I enclosed in my last post, it has been well-known for +/- 45 years that things as they are were unsustainable, but no one in charge was willing to make those changes. It is a credit to those who live modestly. And living like KiwiMum does -- wow! But we are still most likely well past the tipping point. And unfortunately, in theory at least, the government represents our will, so if this is something we want to see changed, we have to make them do it. And to do that we will have to come up with a reward greater than the corporate pirates are giving them now. Or an extreme punishment. Pretty damn tall odds, IMHO. People like us aren't the problem, ME. It's the bad policies, like the fracking. It's the corporations that pollute and waste. The advertisers who drive consumerism. And the people that respond to the advertisers by over-consuming. But everyone will wind up paying the price. ------------- I am the DZ Queen, and I approve this message. |
Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: April 26 2021 at 11:47am
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Half way between Me163 and KiwiMum. I have 1 tv, no modern phone (20yo Nokia), 1 computer (5yo), a wood stove and my own forest. I have not been on a plane since I was 10 and I travel nowhere by car (4 trips this year to doc, vet and solicitor). My deliveries are huge - but infrequent and we grow some of our food - amount steadily increasing. I have only 2 kids - deliberately. As we can afford more sustainable options, we implement them. I still feel guilty. ------------- How do you tell if a politician is lying? His lips or pen are moving. |
Posted By: CRS, DrPH
Date Posted: April 28 2021 at 11:33am
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It still won't matter. The carbon dioxide that humanity has dumped into the atmosphere since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution will remain for decades, continuing to trap heat. Even if we reduce all emissions to zero, our past will kill us. US Dept of Energy (DOE) gave a webinar that I attended. They say that the only way we can save ourselves is to develop new technology to remove carbon dioxide out of the air (direct air capture), fix it in some manner (make concrete, or pure carbon etc.) and bury/sequester it. DOE says this will create a vast new industry that will require immense funding. This slide shows how much....much more than US defense & health spending. DOE says we will have to remove 20 gigatons (billion tons) of carbon dioxide from the air every year, equivalent to removing a mass of about to 55,000 Empire State Buildings from the atmosphere every year. “Towards a 20 GT Negative CO2 Emissions Industry,” https://vimeo.com/361142451 - https://vimeo.com/361142451 September 19, 2019.
------------- CRS, DrPH |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: April 28 2021 at 2:52pm
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Yes I understand all that,have done for years..... However is there the will amongst the human population to do all of that....!!!??? It's hard to get some people to take a vaccine when 100s of thousands dying , because they don't believe it's real , trying to implement all of those proposals will be near impossible,and as you say the damage has already been done to this earth..... And with our ever increasing thirst for more electricity how are we going to curb that use without putting millions out of work ...!!!?? Image a world without power and a pandemic both at the same time...... I did read once that the shares going into airlines in the UK coupled with reduced carbon agreements ment that to comply with those reduction targets no-one in the UK could own a car going forward......how does that work...... How does private power companies needing to make profit by selling power too please their share holders of work when we are supposed to be curbing our useage....?? The need for millions to watch/travel to a football game or golf,tennis ,how you going to curb that ....???all needless activities......wasting precious resources.... Never going to happen........ Earth burns while we play the fiddle..... take care all 😷😉 ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖 Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: April 29 2021 at 3:08pm
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ABC News: Satellites show world's glaciers melting faster than ever. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-04-29/satellites-show-world-s-glaciers-melting-faster-than-ever/100103340 - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-04-29/satellites-show-world-s-glaciers-melting-faster-than-ever/100103340 ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖 Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: April 29 2021 at 3:10pm
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1News: New study paints 'alarming picture' of glaciers melting faster than ever, including in NZ. https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/world/new-study-paints-alarming-picture-glaciers-melting-faster-than-ever-including-in-nz - https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/world/new-study-paints-alarming-picture-glaciers-melting-faster-than-ever-including-in-nz ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖 Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: CRS, DrPH
Date Posted: May 01 2021 at 2:00am
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I'm afraid that the only thing to wake some folks up will be major coastal cities inundated by rising seas. ------------- CRS, DrPH |
Posted By: WitchMisspelled
Date Posted: May 01 2021 at 9:50am
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Chicken little here....I doubt even then.
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Posted By: ViQueen24
Date Posted: May 01 2021 at 10:08am
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Wow, Chuck, you're more optimistic than I am. Here in my town two years ago in the spring it rained so much every day on the news there was a house sliding into the river, falling off a hill, etc. But all you heard was the pro-Trump crowd talking about the climate change being part of a normal cycle, decrying Pittsburgh mayor Bill Peduto's adoption of Kyoto Protocol- type regulations for the city as hamstringing business and crippling Pittsburgh's growth, etc. Meanwhile, yesterday US Steel pulled out of a project commitment in the nearby Mon Valley so they could go to one of the southern states which was committed to building a steel mill that would use less energy upfront to produce the steel, and pollute the environment less while doing it. The blame was cast on the Allegheny County Health Dept., who had its hands full with the pandemic and delayed its part of the permit process until basically US Steel decided to pull back from the project here and move it elsewhere. Citizens and county executives are blindsided, even though we have one of the worst coke pollution problems in the nation and US Steel has committed to clean up its Hazelton Coke Works therefore. Mene mene tekel upharsin. ------------- I am the DZ Queen, and I approve this message. |
Posted By: WitchMisspelled
Date Posted: May 01 2021 at 12:36pm
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As a coastal city dweller I can tell you it became a problem even before Sandy. My little corner of Brooklyn when a Tornado hit my area in 2007. I remember being awakened by the building shaking from the downbursts as it passed overhead before touching down a few blocks from me. It was the first tornado reported in NYC for over 100 years. Now we're averaging about one a year since then. In recent years two and sometimes three. I joke about being in "Tornado Ally NYC. |
Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: May 01 2021 at 1:48pm
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------------- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. ~Albert Einstein |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: May 02 2021 at 7:52pm
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https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/may/02/its-like-a-rotting-carcass-of-its-former-self-funeral-for-an-oregon-glacier - https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/may/02/its-like-a-rotting-carcass-of-its-former-self-funeral-for-an-oregon-glacier ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖 Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: CRS, DrPH
Date Posted: May 04 2021 at 12:41am
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That's all? Mein Gott! BTW, I lived in Pittsburgh PA briefly (Univ of Pittsburgh), I loved the place! There are stories of people who lay dying from COVID-19 in ICU beds, denying to their last breath that they have the virus!! "NO, IT'S A HOAX, I HEARD IT ON FOX NEWS!" etc. The good news is, there are technologies that could, if rapidly deployed, start to turn this thing around. The bad news is, well, politics. The impetus to improve things seems to be gaining favor, so we'll see. Meanwhile, watch the red states like OK, TX, AL, MS etc. get smashed by tornadoes about now. Sad. ------------- CRS, DrPH |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: May 04 2021 at 5:21am
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We are a very very odd species....... Totally reactive not proactive......oh well might aswell have another ice cold beer while I can lmao..... Take care all 😷😉 ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖 Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: May 10 2021 at 3:57pm
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The Guardian: Campaigners say UK airport expansion plans must be suspended amid new climate goals. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/10/campaigners-say-uk-airport-expansion-plans-must-be-suspended-amid-new-climate-goals - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/10/campaigners-say-uk-airport-expansion-plans-must-be-suspended-amid-new-climate-goals ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖 Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: June 03 2021 at 1:52am
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New Scientist News: Iconic animals are under threat if we breach 1.5°C warming, warns WWF. https://www.newscientist.com/article/2279088-iconic-animals-are-under-threat-if-we-breach-1-5c-warming-warns-wwf/?utm_campaign=RSS%7CNSNS&utm_source=NSNS&utm_medium=RSS&utm_content=news - https://www.newscientist.com/article/2279088-iconic-animals-are-under-threat-if-we-breach-1-5c-warming-warns-wwf/?utm_campaign=RSS%7CNSNS&utm_source=NSNS&utm_medium=RSS&utm_content=news ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖 Marcus Aurelius |