How crematoriums were overwhelmed across India with bodies following a devastating second wave of Covid-19 infections.
https://www.dawn.com/authors/422/reuters - Reuters Published 28 May, 2021 06:52pm
Some cold!
Delta Virus
Printed From: Avian Flu Talk
Category: Main Forums
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Description: (General discussion regarding the next pandemic)
URL: http://www.avianflutalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=43985
Printed Date: April 30 2024 at 6:17pm
Topic: Delta Virus
Posted By: ME163
Subject: Delta Virus
Date Posted: June 16 2021 at 4:15am
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Have been looking at this new variant . I think it is something to be worried about especially in the fall. I guess we might have to put our october fest plans on hold this year. |
Replies:
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: June 16 2021 at 4:48am
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UK has deferred its end of lockdown plans because of Delta C19...... Hold on USA ..... Come fall your numbers are going to soar ..... Take care all π·π ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.π Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: June 16 2021 at 4:59am
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If anyone thinks this is over they are delusional..... Take care all π·π ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.π Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: June 16 2021 at 5:30am
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Here in NL on the Delta variant-last week 205 youngsters-15-19 y/o after school exams went on holiday to Spain/Portugal and mixed with UK youths. Now proberbly all infected with the Delta variant. Symptoms more "cold like" but still twice as many people may get in hospital for the Delta variant then for the "old variant"... On Dutch CDC numbers in east of NL this week proberbly 9% of new cases is Delta, last week was 5%...Dutch CDC is testing samples ad random and may be missing the spread in the young and unvaccinated. Communication that "symptoms are more like a severe cold" are misleading if twice as many people need hospital. You do not need hospital with a cold ! (Dutch link [url]https://www.gelderlander.nl/binnenland/indiase-variant-rukt-op-in-nederland-onderzoek-naar-jongeren-die-examenfeestjes-zijn-gaan-vieren~a508759f/[/url] or https://www.gelderlander.nl/binnenland/indiase-variant-rukt-op-in-nederland-onderzoek-naar-jongeren-die-examenfeestjes-zijn-gaan-vieren~a508759f/ - https://www.gelderlander.nl/binnenland/indiase-variant-rukt-op-in-nederland-onderzoek-naar-jongeren-die-examenfeestjes-zijn-gaan-vieren~a508759f/ ) ------------- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. ~Albert Einstein |
Posted By: ME163
Date Posted: June 16 2021 at 6:57pm
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Dutch, that is the reason why I am going to have to cancel our octoberfest plans. It is just too risky.' Having got it once, I don't want to ever go back to the ICU again. I know it's pretty strange for many to feel this way, I had a few months of hell to go thru in order to live and i would rather not do it again. |
Posted By: Usk
Date Posted: June 16 2021 at 7:49pm
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Delta variant more like cold. Symptoms bad headache with fever and runny nose. So far not a big deal https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57467051 - https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57467051 |
Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: June 16 2021 at 9:15pm
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Usk-You would not expect hospital cases going up if it was just "a bad cold"...and I did see a report on that from the UK ZOE-app/prof. Spencer... On the long run covid19 will become the same risk as a (severe) cold (sometimes resulting in pneumonia). At this moment I am unclear on how bad symptoms can get-in other age groups then young. I am unclear on the numbers since "corona is out" also "testing is out"... ME163 (after the German fighter ???) I can understand you want to be on the safe side...Here in NL a lot of people will not go abroad this summer-out of fear of getting stranded, catching the virus...(in that order iI guess...) I (DJ) try to follow daily in scenarios how this pandemic is developing-general numbers down but several (far more) risky variants going up. Part of the problem is spread via young party-people going to Mallorca, "party islands"...mixing with young unvaccinated people from already many countries. ------------- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. ~Albert Einstein |
Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: June 17 2021 at 1:46am
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DELTA VARIANT:
------------- How do you tell if a politician is lying? His lips or pen are moving. |
Posted By: Usk
Date Posted: June 17 2021 at 4:31am
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https://cnb.cx/3zcimDR - https://cnb.cx/3zcimDR We do not know for sure this was delta. Testing was not conducted extensively during this crisis. The testing that has been done shows delta is NOT a variant that kills. It is very possible that this was mostly the first variant which we already knew was very deadly in certain populations without adequate health care and natural immunity. To me your reporting on cremations in April only makes me more suspicious that China is lying about their deaths. What was happening in India undoubtedly was happening in China a year before and China deaths should be in the 100’s of thousands range rather than 3590 |
Posted By: Usk
Date Posted: June 17 2021 at 4:51am
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Also read this about how started the crisis British variant first then mutation https://theconversation.com/why-variants-are-most-likely-to-blame-for-indias-covid-surge-159911 - https://theconversation.com/why-variants-are-most-likely-to-blame-for-indias-covid-surge-159911 Sent from my iPhone
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Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: June 17 2021 at 6:30am
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That article was 6 weeks old, Usk. The B.1.617 (Indian) variant was named the Delta variant by the WHO on the 21 May (less than 4 weeks ago). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS-CoV-2_Delta_variant" rel="noopener noreferrer - * 1% of tests being checked for a variant of concern is nowhere near optimal; it can't deliver enough tracing and quarantining to effectively aid the suppression of the virus. But when the amount of tested people is large enough - as in India1, it is enough to show developing trends. So: no, we do not have complete certainty that the Delta variant is the cause of India's woes, but we are 99.9% sure. That is a pretty good score in science. As an explanation for the huge death toll, it passed the hypothesis test and became an accepted theory. 1 Although the percentage of the population tested is small, the population of India is so large even a tiny proportion gives a huge cohort to study. ------------- How do you tell if a politician is lying? His lips or pen are moving. |
Posted By: ViQueen24
Date Posted: June 17 2021 at 7:08am
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And I keep harping on it, but even when the initial symptoms are milder, people are still developing complications that are debilitating them for months, years, possibly ever. It's a good reason for caution and measured steps in my book. ------------- I am the DZ Queen, and I approve this message. |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: June 17 2021 at 4:15pm
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National Geographic: The Delta variant is serious. Here’s why it's on the rise.. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/the-delta-variant-is-serious-heres-why-its-on-the-rise - https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/the-delta-variant-is-serious-heres-why-its-on-the-rise ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.π Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: June 17 2021 at 4:44pm
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Hindustan Times: ‘Cause for worry’: Expert weighs in on immune escape potential of Delta plus Covid variant. https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/expert-weighs-in-on-immune-escape-potential-of-delta-plus-covid-variant-101623932075798-amp.html - https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/expert-weighs-in-on-immune-escape-potential-of-delta-plus-covid-variant-101623932075798-amp.html ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.π Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: Usk
Date Posted: June 18 2021 at 3:55am
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Hey Carbon you have posted in several places about delta variant and I was wondering if you noticed a common theme? Each country used the Chinese vaccine. Could there be a connection?Are we seeing genocide in action? |
Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: June 18 2021 at 8:20am
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I don't think TPTB in China seek genocide for the West, but damaging our socities just enough to make us more dependant would be right up their street. Then perhaps we would be unable to complain when they exert ever more rigid controls on the Uyghur, the inhabitants of Hong Kong or take over Taiwan or South Korea. Xi Jinping seems driven by power, conquest and money. No vaccine is 100% safe or 100% effective. I know what score ours achieve on both counts. China seems less forthcoming with such data about their own. It is possible I just missed it, but China does have form in such things. ------------- How do you tell if a politician is lying? His lips or pen are moving. |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: June 18 2021 at 4:05pm
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I don't think sinovax is up to task,lady I know who's family live in Iran ,where it's available says her family in permanent lockdown, because they don't trust that vaccine....... It's either no good or it's not able to travel well,but if you look at the countries that have it ,I doubt if they know what they doing,or as I said in another post , Some governments will be using this to get rid of their opponents...... Take care all π·π ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.π Marcus Aurelius |
Usk wrote:Posted By: Pixie
Date Posted: June 19 2021 at 10:08am
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Fleeting exposure...
New South Wales reported three cases of Covid-19 on Saturday, taking the total associated with the Bondi outbreak to six. Two previously unreported cases were announced, including a woman in her 40s from the eastern suburbs who visited a number of venues in Westfield Bondi Junction. The second case, reported overnight, is a man in his 30s who lives in Sydney and also visited Westfield Bondi Junction. His case will be reported in tomorrow’s numbers. These are in addition to the case reported on Friday afternoon of a man in his 50s who was on the same floor of the Westfield Bondi Junction Myer as the initial Bondi case last Saturday. NSW health minister Brad Hazzard said the Delta variant which is behind this outbreak is a “near and present danger” given the fleeting contact between cases at the Bondi Junction Westfield. https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Pages/case-locations-and-alerts.aspx - https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Pages/case-locations-and-alerts.aspx - https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Pages/case-locations-and-alerts.aspx The areas are expansive. This is proactivity at its finest. Letting delta wash over us here in the US is foolhardy. |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: June 19 2021 at 1:56pm
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The NSW government has a totally different outlook ,than our Premier here in Western Australia, We have frequently been harassed,by the other states ,only to have been proved right ,in the way our government and especially our Premier (97%aprovall rating) has handled this situation. Take care all π·π PerthNow: WA reintroduces strict measures applied in December after NSW northern beaches outbreak. https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa-reintroduces-strict-measures-applied-in-december-after-nsw-northern-beaches-outbreak-c-3160446 - https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa-reintroduces-strict-measures-applied-in-december-after-nsw-northern-beaches-outbreak-c-3160446 ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.π Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: EdwinSm,
Date Posted: June 20 2021 at 3:11am
Why has the Delta variant spread so quickly in UK?
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57489740 - https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57489740 It looks like it will take over completely from other variants. One reason was opening to international travel too soon:
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Posted By: ViQueen24
Date Posted: June 20 2021 at 7:45am
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And to piggyback off of what Pixie said, it is important to remember that in the US, Covid vaccine hesitancy/opposition reigns so supreme that, according to CBS Evening News last night, in some counties vaccination rates are at 20%. Many southern and midwestern counties are vaccinated to 40%. How does a country responsibly reopen in this situation? I know many folks are opposed to vaccine passports, but what other ideas are there to open responsibly? ------------- I am the DZ Queen, and I approve this message. |
Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: June 20 2021 at 12:55pm
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A senior health official told the Kan public broadcaster that the Pfizer vaccine was thought to be 88% effective against the Delta variant, compared to 96% effective against the British strain, but noted that some 35% of the population in Israel remains unvaccinated. The Military Intelligence taskforce also said Israel’s coronavirus transmission rate had risen sharply to 1.5. DJ-Several clusters in school children-R0 jumped to 1,5...in Israel-proberbly #1 in vaccinations....Not good ! DJ-In general 65% vaccinated may mean some communities did see-very likely-much lees vaccinations-leaving room for (Delta) variant spread... ------------- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. ~Albert Einstein |
Posted By: KiwiMum
Date Posted: June 20 2021 at 3:13pm
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The problem is that the vaccines don't guarantee immunity. I have a friend who not only had Covid very badly, but then he had both shots of the vaccine and then a couple of months later he had a test to monitor his antibody level at the request of his doctor. He has been devastated to discover that he has no antibodies to Covid at all, none. He's as vulnerable as he ever was and he has to travel globally because of his job. Even if someone has had the vaccines, they can still have and spread Covid. The vaccines will just make it more likely that they will be asymptomatic. Obviously the vaccines will save lives by making it less likely for someone to die from it but let's be clear here, having the vaccine is benefitting the person receiving the jab more than it's benefitting the rest of society. It offers no guarantee. About one third of all current admissions and deaths in hospital in the UK at the moment are in people who've had 2 shots of a vaccine. Here in NZ we're being told these facts, it's not being hidden from us. And when the borders open, Covid will come flooding in even if we restrict entry to people who've been fully vaccinated. And Kiwis will die as a result. At the moment we don't have any community transmission and are living life as normal, but we've all been told that will change when the borders open. We'll have to introduce social distancing and prepare for it to disrupt our lives. ------------- Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesnβt accord with the facts. |
Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: June 21 2021 at 3:56am
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That is absolutely true. Mind you, almost all over 18s are now vaccinated, so there are only a handful of people left unvaccinated in any of the vulnerable groups. Overall, hospital admissions and deaths are a tiny fraction of what they were before the vaccine was available, despite the Delta variant. So the vaccine protects almost everyone. (It varies from vaccine to vaccine, about 90% successful is the average and that figure is for disease free protection.) There is literally no one left unvaccinated to get sick enough for hospital - except the tiny "0.something %" for whom the vaccine is pointless (immune suppressed, HIV, transplantees etc.. Although these people are getting shots anyway; some protection is better than nothing.) What it does not do is prevent infection, it only prevents disease in the 90% and severe disease in most of the rest. About 40% of the fully vaccinated can still get and carry asymptomatic infections. So it slows the spread, but does not prevent it. There is talk of a booster shot in the autumn. This might raise the 90% success rate. ------------- How do you tell if a politician is lying? His lips or pen are moving. |
Posted By: ViQueen24
Date Posted: June 21 2021 at 7:09am
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What you say is true, KiwiMum, but while these vaccines don't completely eliminate infection or transmission, they reduce them significantly. They also cut way down on severe illness and hospitalizations. We are being told this in the States regularly by our media. It is not the media's fault that citizens practice selective hearing, magical thinking, and overuse of selected personal filters. Or that they at times act like children in other ways. Viruses play the long game, and we need to, also. We need to use all the tools currently in our tool chest, and we need to develop new tools and use those wise!y also. One cannot be a one-trick pony, relying too much on one tool. If I were a gambler, I'd like these odds alot better than the ones I had a year ago or even 6 weeks ago. But when I go out, I still wear a mask and gloves. ViQueen's mother didn't raise a fool. ------------- I am the DZ Queen, and I approve this message. |
Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: June 21 2021 at 9:01am
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Absolutely! Our death rate has fallen from over 1000 per day to single figures thanks mostly to the vaccine programme. About 1 third of those are double vaccinated, but as almost everyone is now vaccinated, that is 2 or 3** persons out of 53* million (Literally less than one in 10 million). That figure could well be explained by those poor few people who (like KiwiMom's friend) are statistical anomalies or, more often, the severely immunocompromised. 90% effective, simply means 90% of people do not develop active (symptomatic) disease. - Some of them may still transmit the virus. Of the remaining 10%, (The ones classed as vaccine failures!) astonishingly few are being hospitalised and even fewer of them are dying. Of course, even one death is one to many, but the vaccines do seem to be showing a light at the end of the tunnel. * https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/articles/overviewoftheukpopulation/january2021#the-uks-population-is-ageing" rel="noopener noreferrer - Office of national statistics ** one third of daily deaths = those occuring in vaccinated people. ------------- How do you tell if a politician is lying? His lips or pen are moving. |
Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: June 21 2021 at 9:15am
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All of which does not take away from KiwiMom's other lament. New Zealand has had an enviable lack of covid so far. I imagine that, when the borders open again, the horrors the rest of us have had to endure will be a very unwelcome shock. I sympathise! It would have been so great had more leaders behaved like Jacinda Ardern - and more "general public"s had behaved more like Kiwis. I am genuinely sorry our bad choices will soon affect you too. ------------- How do you tell if a politician is lying? His lips or pen are moving. |
Posted By: KiwiMum
Date Posted: June 21 2021 at 2:47pm
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Honestly I'd be happy to keep our borders shut for the next 3 or 4 years. I was due to be in Europe next month but obviously won't be going. I could go but then I'd have enforced quarantine in an isolation facility for 2 weeks upon my return, and there's nothing in Europe that can't wait a few years. The weird thing here is that life is totally normal. I saw two friends in the supermarket yesterday and I hugged and kissed both of them, just like every one else does. And then I talk to friends in the UK who haven't hugged anyone in 16 months and it seems so alien, so remote. If only Jacinda had been ruling the world last year............... ------------- Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesnβt accord with the facts. |
Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: June 21 2021 at 5:01pm
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Trust me: it's ghastly! ------------- How do you tell if a politician is lying? His lips or pen are moving. |
Posted By: ViQueen24
Date Posted: June 22 2021 at 7:42am
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Yes, I do agree. I can see why KiwiMum feels the way she does, and if I were a New Zealander, I would share her trepidation. What New Zealand has done during this pandemic is very admirable. Jacinda has guts, brains and a heart and is awesome. And sadly, outside of this site, I rarely hear anything about her or New Zealand and how they've handled Covid, which to me is incomprehensible. ------------- I am the DZ Queen, and I approve this message. |
Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: June 22 2021 at 12:39pm
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Just days before the Netherlands is set to relax coronavirus restrictions in the Netherlands, the country's top public health organization is sounding the alarm bell over the delta coronavirus variant. New research from England determined https://nltimes.nl/2021/06/19/cabinet-rule-new-lockdown-fall" style="box-sizing: border-box; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(33, 70, 139); text-decoration: underline; - the variant is about 64 percent more contagious than the alpha variant common to the Netherlands. The delta variant is believed to be currently responsible for about 9 percent of coronavirus infections in the Netherlands. The RIVM said the variant will become the main coronavirus strain in the country this summer. The RIVM said this could lead to a fourth wave of infections later this year, similar to after the summer of 2020. "This happened because travelers became infected at their holiday destination and brought the virus back to the Netherlands. This, combined with more social contacts, resulted in a further spread of the new variants in the Netherlands," the RIVM said. Over the past two weeks, 624 people who tested positive for coronavirus had recently traveled to Spain or Portugal. Many of them were high school students celebrating the completion of their final exams. Genome sequencing of the coronavirus which infected the young people "revealed that a large part of these infections was caused by the delta variant." The RIVM is mainly concerned about the autumn, with the general seasonal increase of infections expected. "The more contagious delta variant could then lead to a new wave of infections, since not everyone in the Netherlands has yet been fully or partially vaccinated." In fact, the latest data from the agency showed that about 34 percent of the adult population was fully vaccinated against Covid-19 through Sunday. "An increase in infections can lead to an increase in hospital and ICU admissions. Whether the delta variant is not only more contagious, but also more pathogenic is being investigated further," the RIVM said. Such an increase in hospitalizations is not expected in the short term. "Coronavirus is not gone. We have to stay alert, especially on vacation," De Jonge said. He and Prime Minister Mark Rutte announced on Friday that the Cabinet would release most lockdown restrictions from June 26. Noted virologist Marion Koopmans told Rijnmond that the Delta variant will become the dominant strain in July. DJ-You see a storm coming but it is dry now still-so the kids can go out to play... There are several reasons the Dutch CDC/RIVM thinks there is room for openings; -In total cases are going up-some variants Delta (but also Gamma/P1-Brazil) go up...but if you would have 200 cases per day now-5% variants=10 variant cases per day...the idea seems to be cases mid july could be as low as (for example) 50-with 50% variant cases-so 25 variant cases per day... -Since also vaccinations would go up-from 35% now to maybe 60% fully vaccinated then most of those variant cases-in this idea-would hardly show symptoms... -Also "summer will save us" -only this summer is quite bizarre-yesterday lots of rain temperature under 20C-after for the east of NL an also bizarre June heatwave... DJ-Let me be clear-as a non-expert...this policy is close to insane...We do not know enough of the Delta+ variant, P1 also going up...opening up for tourism...The Dutch CDC scenario is expecting everything will go to their ideas..but so far this pandemic keeps surprising most experts... When you look at corona virusses in animals it is almost impossible to contain...So why keep repeating these risk-when you know there will be another surge...that one could and should stop ? I don't understand this insanity...not only in NL...any longer... ------------- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. ~Albert Einstein |
Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: June 23 2021 at 12:02am
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DJ The symptoms of the Delta strain observed so far vary from the known norm: They are typically headache, sore threat and a bad head cold with running nose, with occasional loss of taste and smell or a dry cough. A cold was formerly ruled out as a simptom of coronavirus. The Indian variant has changed that. “No reason to panic,” over the new variant, said Prof. Ran Balicer, an epidemiologist who advises the Health Ministry. He was reacting to the discovery of 37 positive cases reported in Modi’in, – 27 of them schoolchildren, and more than 80 in Binyamina, after an outbreak in one school. “The barrier of vaccination we have built may be sufficient to contain these outbreaks and prevent a wide community spread,” he said. Health officials slay there ae no plans to revive the lockdowns and stiff measures finally lifted two months ago when Israel was declared covid-free. Researchers have traced the variant’s source to large numbers of illegal foreign workers entering the UAE from India, which is why Israel’s Health ministry last week added the Emirates to the list of countries barred against Israeli travel. A double Pfizer shot is initially reckoned by some experts as 88pc protection against severe coronavirus symptoms from the Indian variant,” marginally less than effectiveness of the mass vaccinations conducted in Israel and many other countries in the past seven months. This reduced effectiveness may be accounted for by two hypothetical factors:
DJ-A remark on 88% protection by pfizer vaccines-those numbers are from the early stages of UK dealing with the Delta variant. Both the number of infections and a Delta+ variant may see lower rate of protection. I would also like to be able to look at Iran sources but [url]https://www.presstv.com/[/url] or https://www.presstv.com/ - https://www.presstv.com/ ; [url]https://twitter.com/presstv[/url] ;In what seems to be a coordinated action, a similar message appears on the websites of Iranian and regional television networks that claims the domains of the websites have been “seized by the United States Government.” DJ The US should stop this criminal action agaist a press outlet of another state. Very likely Delta variant may be increasing in Iran-with maybe some local variants ? ------------- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. ~Albert Einstein |
Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: June 23 2021 at 10:19am
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DJ-NL; More than 40% of all new SARS-CoV-2 infections in Amsterdam can be linked to the delta variant of the coronavirus, said Yvonne van Duijnhoven, the head of infectious diseases at the Amsterdam GGD. Van Duijnhoven warned that the delta variant could become dominant in the Dutch capital by next week, she told newswire ANP on Tuesday. Van Duijnhoven said her estimate was based on provisional results of samples collected and tested during the past seven days. When examining the samples taken the previous week, the delta variant was only found in seven percent of the cases. Just under 800 people tested positive for any SARS-CoV-2 variant in Amsterdam during that two-week period, according to RIVM data. The research proved that the delta variant was commonly found in young people who recently returned from https://nltimes.nl/2021/06/18/ggd-amsterdam-concerned-delta-variant-mails-testing-reminders-students" style="box-sizing: border-box; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(33, 70, 139); text-decoration: underline; - holiday in Spain or Portugal . A separate analysis of their samples proved that 90 percent of the infected young people who returned from the Spanish island of Mallorca took the Delta variant with them. That was also true for 50% of travelers returning from the Portuguese resort town of Albufeira. According to Van Duijnhoven, it is difficult to say whether it is solely these people causing the dramatic increase in the presence of the delta strain. “This variant has been circulating in the Netherlands for weeks," she said. Nationally, over 500 people who returned from a visit to either country in June https://nltimes.nl/2021/06/22/dutch-covid-figures-improve-third-go-orange-eu-next-week" style="box-sizing: border-box; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(33, 70, 139); text-decoration: underline; - tested positive for the coronavirus infection, regardless of variant, the RIVM said. Last week, the variant of the virus still accounted for only ten percent of new infections in major Dutch cities according to Health Minister Hugo de Jonge. The RIVM said it expected delta to replace the alpha variant to become the https://nltimes.nl/2021/06/22/fourth-wave-feared-rivm-finds-several-delta-coronavirus-variant-clusters-netherlands" style="box-sizing: border-box; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(33, 70, 139); text-decoration: underline; - main strain of the virus in the Netherlands over the course of the summer. Virologist Marion Koopmans was more specific, and predicted this would happen in July. The total number of coronavirus infections in Amsterdam has continued to fall, though generally at a slower rate than previously anticipated. The number of infections among young people aged 13 to 18 appears to be even increasing, according to Van Duijnhoven. She noted that there was still no reason to sound an alarm. “The absolute numbers of infections continue to fall. And we are in full vaccination mode. Moreover, it is summer, which means that the virus is less easily spread,” she said. The RIVM said that the dominance of the delta variant was unlikely to cause an increase in the number of hospital admissions in the short term, but if total coronavirus infections increase that will likely lead to an overall increase in hospitalizations. The European Center for Disease Prevention and Control (ECDC) on Wednesday said it expected the coronavirus delta variant, which was first found in India to be the dominant cause of infection in https://www.dw.com/en/eu-agrees-on-common-coronavirus-travel-rules/a-55253165" style="color: rgb(0, 135, 235); text-decoration: none; - Europe throughout the summer. "It is very likely that the delta variant will circulate heavily this summer," said ECDC Director Andrea Ammon. Ammon warned that current data suggests individuals who have only received one vaccination shot are still susceptible to https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-what-do-we-know-about-the-coronavirus-delta-variant/a-57949754" style="color: rgb(0, 135, 235); text-decoration: none; - delta variant infection , though said a second shot offered a high level of protection. In light of that fact, she urged people to get their second shot as soon as allowed. The ECDC found that the delta variant is 40%-60% more transmissible than the alpha variant, which was first seen in the United Kingdom, and expects it to continue its voracious spread, accounting for as much as 70% of all European infections by early August. "The delta variant is more transmissible than other circulating variants and we estimate that by the end of August it will represent 90%" of new cases in the EU, according to the agency. EuropeThe number of cases in Germany increased by 1,016, https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-digest-germany-records-fewest-new-cases-since-august/a-57977110" style="color: rgb(0, 135, 235); text-decoration: none; - the Robert Koch Institute (RKI) announced on Wednesday. The reported death toll went up by 51, RKI data showed. The seven-day incidence rate fell further, to 7.2 cases per 100,000 people. German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Wednesday voiced a desire for European Union-wide quarantine rules for people arriving from areas where the https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-digest-germany-warns-delta-variant-will-dominate-by-autumn/a-57949655" style="color: rgb(0, 135, 235); text-decoration: none; - delta variant has been identified as prevalent. "In our country, if you come from Britain, you have to go into quarantine — that's not the case in every European country, and that's what I would like to see," she told parliament. Swiss Health Minister Alain Berset announced Wednesday that his country would lift coronavirus restrictions sooner than expected as infections continue to fall. As of Saturday, masks will no longer be required outdoors; restaurants, bars and discos will be allowed to open at full capacity; and large-scale events of up to 10,000 people can be attended by those with proof of vaccination. "It's a big step, a little bit courageous, and we can't get overconfident," Berset said, "We're seeking to strike the right balance." AsiaTokyo 2020 organizers have said alcohol at Olympic venues will be banned as part of efforts to prevent the spread of the coronavirus, the Kyodo news agency reported. The Games are set to commence on July 23 and last for two weeks. In China, direct flights from Shenzhen to Beijing have been suspended until at least July 1. China's most populous province Guangdong is battling a recent outbreak, with 170 confirmed local cases between May 21 and June 21, though no new confirmed local cases were reported for June 22 on Wednesday. OceaniaThe Red Cross has called for faster vaccination rollouts in vulnerable Pacific island nations as a surge in cases threatens to overwhelm Fiji's health system. Fiji's two largest hospitals have been converted into dedicated COVID-19 facilities, with the number of infections doubling every nine days since a second wave began in April. The situation has been a "serious wake-up call" showing the need for more urgency across the region, Red Cross Pacific chief Katie Greenwood said. DJ-In Europe the Delta variant will be (over) 90% of cases by the end of August-I do not think US/Canada will do much better...how the Delta variant will deal with variants in Africa and Latin America we soon will find out...could be even getting worse... Increasing vaccinations has limited use-since it may take two weeks before getting full immunity-after the second vaccination. The Delta variant is spreading most in younger-unvaccinated-age groups. Will increase its spread in those with just one vaccination (Pfizer, Moderna/AZ-O)...may develop further towards vaccine escape... The UK now reporting over 16,000 cases-may be moving towards the expected 20,000+ new cases per day. ------------- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. ~Albert Einstein |
Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: June 23 2021 at 11:00am
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Scotland just reported its biggest ever daily count of new cases, over a thousand, despite the extensive vaccine programme. We had 9 deaths today too. This is obviously a SERIOUS uptick. The Delta variant is sickening younger people too. I would not be surprised if we locked down again. Either way we will be behaving like hermits as usual. Apparently that light at the end of the tunnel we saw was an oncoming train. ------------- How do you tell if a politician is lying? His lips or pen are moving. |
Posted By: KiwiMum
Date Posted: June 23 2021 at 3:48pm
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Wow that is an uptick. I'm glad you are able to self isolate. I certainly have elderly relatives in the UK who are not taking it seriously and are glad to be out and about again because now that they are double jabbed they feel invincible. ------------- Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesnβt accord with the facts. |
Posted By: EdwinSm,
Date Posted: June 23 2021 at 10:11pm
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Last night's tv news had a report on football fans returning from Russia and the testing that they are undergoing. One point they mentioned is that in Russia the delta variant accounts for 90% of the cases, whereas here in Finland it is at about 1/3rd of the cases. Russia has been reporting an increase in cases and deaths due to covid19. |
Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: June 24 2021 at 2:14am
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From under Dr. John Campbell june 23 video; Nadhim Zahawi Vaccine Deployment minister If 85% of all adults are double vaccinated, and the vaccines are 85% effective, then the protection level is 72% (28% of the population at some risk) DJ Dr.J.C. had some problems with the calculations behind it-while it is simple...100 people 85 fully vaccinated=85% protection in those vaccinated-85% of 85=(8,5+4,25=12,75, 85-12,75=72,25=)72%... Translating that calculation to more realistic numbers; 70% vaccinated-80% protection would result in (70-14=) 56% protection...44% of population at risk... In June 2021, scientist https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinod_Scaria" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="Vinod Scaria - Vinod Scaria of India's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_of_Genomics_and_Integrative_Biology" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="Institute of Genomics and Integrative Biology - Institute of Genomics and Integrative Biology highlighted the existence of the B.1.617.2.1 variant, also known as AY.1 or Delta plus, which has an additional K417N mutation compared to the Delta variant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS-CoV-2_Delta_variant#cite_note-plus-27" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [27] B.1.617.2.1 was detected in Europe in March 2021, and has since been detected in Asia and America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS-CoV-2_Delta_variant#cite_note-plus-27" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [27] So the main mutation in the Delta-plus is K417N, (as in Beta, SA) not new. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS-CoV-2_Beta_variant#Mutations[/url] or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS-CoV-2_Beta_variant#Mutations - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS-CoV-2_Beta_variant#Mutations DJ-So maybe time for a new "model"-70 % vaccinated-60% protection would translate to (70-40%=28=)42% protection-leaving 58% of society vulnarable...with 60% vaccinated-60% protection even resuling in (60-24=)36% protection... Since sequencing is "poor" in most countries we simply have no idea how far both the Delta-and Delta-plus (or other variants-some also more vaccine/natural immunity escape) variants are. We do know the level of vaccine protection in even the best countries-vaccination wise-may be something like 70% (Israel ?)...Most other countries hardly manage to see 50% of ALL of their population (including under 18 y/o-main driver in a.o. Israel ) fully vaccinated... Okay-50%-getting 60% protection against newest variants like Delta-plus=30% protection...how fast will newer variants spread ? Based on these numbers -very fast ! Even worse-mutations in variants during spread will further decrease protection from vaccines or earlier infection... Stop The Spread !!!!!! ------------- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. ~Albert Einstein |
Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: June 24 2021 at 2:28am
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DJ- Some more on the Delta-plus variant (with K417N-mutation); DJ-Based on this info risk of Delta-plus variant may be very limited however it is the total of mutations that matter-and how they mix with what hosts. In India there should (still) be (some) immunity against the (old) Delta variant-in other countries the Delta-plus variant may have more room. DJ-translation "we do not know enough yet"... ------------- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. ~Albert Einstein |
Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: June 24 2021 at 4:31am
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To be honest, KiwiMum, those who have had two jabs are (assuming the jabs were more than 2 weeks ago and they have no immunocompromised status) safe. At least as safe as they can be. In their shoes (as I am) I still take no chances, but I am quite paranoid! The risks remaining are minescule (about one in a million, crossing the road is considerably less safe). The risks are larger than being struck by a meteorite and killed, or struck by lightning, but not by much. We still have large cohorts of unvaccinated though - and the young seem to think themselves invincible. They aren't and the Delta variant seems to put them at more risk. I don't give it long before we have yet another variant of concern. In your enviable shoes, I would encourage them to take more precautions, but not actually go on to worry much. ------------- How do you tell if a politician is lying? His lips or pen are moving. |
Posted By: KiwiMum
Date Posted: June 24 2021 at 11:37pm
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Oh I'm keeping well out of it. They are old enough and ugly enough to make their own decisions, and I'm not going to start telling people what to do. But I do know that if one of them comes down with it they'll be completely at a loss as to how that's even possible. They seem to know very little about the vaccines. They just lined up like good little citizens and rolled up their sleeves. ------------- Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesnβt accord with the facts. |
Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: June 25 2021 at 1:35am
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Some statistics on the fourth wave in the UK [url]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/[/url] or https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/ - https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/ and Israel [url]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/[/url] or https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/ - https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/ both vaccinated very well-though far from herd immunity. DJ-Vaccinations may help to limit the damage (in my view) may buy time. But a major problem is new variants are developing towards resistent forms able to infect hosts over and over again... DJ-In Russia, Portugal most likely Sweden-soon US-the Delta variant could (also) get out of control. Limited vaccinations, political stupidity in going for Non Pharma Interventions (mixed with communications that make matters worse) are pushing in the wrong direction. Of course a "wave has an end" but if we keep reopening for another variant to spread-another wave-we may go "all the way" into the self made swamp. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS-CoV-2_Delta_variant[/url] or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS-CoV-2_Delta_variant - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS-CoV-2_Delta_variant is trying to stay on top of info...but limited sequencing, testing is leaving us 99% blind. ------------- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. ~Albert Einstein |
Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: June 25 2021 at 11:36pm
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Dr.John Campbell misusing "pseudo science" in his story on "Delta goes to Europe" [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JETqBIl4mOo[/url] or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JETqBIl4mOo - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JETqBIl4mOo Dr.J.C. has a religious belief in vaccines...Even if he knows better...Vaccine effectivity is based on statistics. So-yes at the start of the spread of the Delta variant-in yet another wave in this pandemic-numbers look great..."over 90% protection when fully vaccinated"...So corrupt failing politicians can "reopen again""saving the economy again"etc... Repeating wrong choices will not make those choices right ! Vaccine protection is eroding. Variants are mutating towards resistent forms of Covid19-able to infect hosts (human and non human) over and over again...It would be very welcome if Dr.J.C. was talking on that...He is doing a good job on Ivermectin, vitamins...but seems to be blind for the Big Pharma maffia making zillions on profit on vaccines that do not offer a long term solution... More and more this pandemic-like climate "change"=collapse-shows the basic problem is a political one...Politicians for sale-not working in the public interest... Russia has detected its first case of the new ‘Delta Plus’ Covid-19 strain, a virus expert revealed on Friday. Officials believe it is isolated and was likely imported from another country. The variant was first found in India. The news of Russia’s first recorded incident was revealed by Darya Danilenko, the deputy director of the Smorodintsev Research Institute of Influenza, who told Saint Petersburg newspaper Fontanka that there is no reason to believe Delta Plus is more dangerous or lethal than other known strains. “The case is unique and most likely imported,” Danilenko explained, noting that other cases have been recorded in the US and the UK. Worldwide, around 200 infections have been found in 11 countries. However, according to health watchdog Rospotrebnadzor, the Delta Plus case has not been scientifically confirmed. On Wednesday, Deputy Prime Minister Tatyana Golikova told the government that Delta Plus was yet to be detected in Russia. So immunity against the Delta-variant "B1.617.2" seems not to be stopping the + variant B1.617.2.1....[url]https://www.livemint.com/news/india/delta-plus-variant-of-covid-19-now-found-in-11-states-says-govt-full-list-11624620931089.html[/url] or https://www.livemint.com/news/india/delta-plus-variant-of-covid-19-now-found-in-11-states-says-govt-full-list-11624620931089.html - https://www.livemint.com/news/india/delta-plus-variant-of-covid-19-now-found-in-11-states-says-govt-full-list-11624620931089.html Sequencing is almost not done in India-they send samples to the UK-so results take even longer... It is very likely both the Delta and the Delta+ variant now are spreading. Since the K417N mutation may be more infectious again "experts" may be shown wrong...Social distancing and vaccination is better protection then just only vaccination...allthough "vaccine-religion" is in fashion now... ------------- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. ~Albert Einstein |
Posted By: ME163
Date Posted: June 26 2021 at 1:43am
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I have seen an explosion of Delta virus in Kansas. We have seen a rapid rise in cases. Our Vaccination rate is lower and more young people are reporting symptoms. I saw a report of a Delta Plus variant. It's supposed to get around the vaccine. Is this true ? ME163 |
Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: June 26 2021 at 2:39am
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That rather depends on what you class as "effective". According to the Lancet, the AstraZeneca vaccine is 60% effective and the PfizerBiontec 79% - against the Delta+ variant. (That of course means fully effective, ie. preventing active disease.) I do not know how much it limits transmission (probably much less) or severe disease (probably much more) and I don't have figures for any of the other vaccines. What is also worrying, is that the Delta + variant may make monoclonal antibody treatment ineffective and may also spread throughout the body more effectively - making it more virulent as well as more transmissable. So while the vaccine still offers a worthwhile degree of protection, overall the virus seems to be outpacing us in the war. Worse, global political leaders are well behind the curve of events and continue to open up countries, giving the virus more opportunities to mutate into even worse strains. I simply can't be the bearer of any good news or reassurance today. Sorry! Source: https://www.indiatoday.in/coronavirus-outbreak/video/delta-plus-variant-lancet-data-raises-alarm-over-vaccine-efficacy-1818723-2021-06-24" rel="noopener noreferrer - Times of India - with video ------------- How do you tell if a politician is lying? His lips or pen are moving. |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: June 26 2021 at 2:43am
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I'm thinking after my second Az shot,I might go for one of the mRNA vaccines .....a few months later..... What you guys think of that??? Take care all π·π ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.π Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: ViQueen24
Date Posted: June 26 2021 at 6:20am
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We're probably all going to have to have booster shots later, so I would ask your doctor what they think. ------------- I am the DZ Queen, and I approve this message. |
Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: June 27 2021 at 1:44pm
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WHO urges fully vaccinated people to continue to wear masks as delta Covid variant spreads DJ Vaccines, masks, social distancing, handhygiene, ventilation, taking enough sleep/vitamins etc... ------------- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. ~Albert Einstein |
Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: June 28 2021 at 2:40am
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DJ With much of Australia now moving into restrictions/lockdowns [url]https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-28/covid-restrictions-delta-variant-australia-sydney-bondi-cluster/100248754[/url] or https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-28/covid-restrictions-delta-variant-australia-sydney-bondi-cluster/100248754 - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-28/covid-restrictions-delta-variant-australia-sydney-bondi-cluster/100248754 due to the Delta variant I have another-growing worry... As others in this site correctly posted-a pandemic-virus should not kill its host if the virus wants to survive. There are much more mice and rats then humans...variants spreading via mice would make this pandemic "far more dangerous"...it could-in a very worst case-"end humans"... Since mouse hepatitis virus (MHV), severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV), and SARS-CoV-2 share a common genus, lessons learnt from MHV and SARS-CoV could offer mechanistic insights into SARS-CoV-2. This review provides a comprehensive review of MHV in mice and SARS-CoV-2 in humans, thereby highlighting further translational avenues in the development of innovative strategies in controlling the detrimental course of SARS-CoV-2. Specifically, we have focused on various aspects, including host species, organotropism, transmission, clinical disease, pathogenesis, control and therapy, MHV as a model for SARS-CoV and SARS-CoV-2 as well as mouse models for infection with SARS-CoV and SARS-CoV-2. While MHV in mice and SARS-CoV-2 in humans share various similarities, there are also differences that need to be addressed when studying murine models. Translational approaches, such as humanized mouse models are pivotal in studying the clinical course and pathology observed in COVID-19 patients. Lessons from prior murine studies on coronavirus, coupled with novel murine models could offer new promising avenues for treatment of COVID-19. DJ-"One Health" as an idea wants to lift seperating human health from health in other species-it is seen as interlinked. Our model showed hamster ACE2 had high S protein binding, similar to the binding affinity to monkey ACE2. This could be explained by hamster ACE2 sharing 14 out of 16 of the S protein binding residues seen in hACE2. Hence our model predicts hamsters should be permissive to SARS-CoV-2 infection (Table https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-92388-5#Tab2" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif; vertical-align: baseline; color: rgb(35, 121, 181); text-decoration: none; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(235, 244, 249); - 2 ). In support of these findings, Syrian hamsters have been shown to exhibit clinical and histopathological responses to SARS-CoV-2 that closely mimic human respiratory tract infections, with high virus shedding and ability to transmit the virus to naïve contact animals https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-92388-5#ref-CR27" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 10.8333px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; color: rgb(35, 121, 181); text-decoration: none; - 27 . The high susceptibility of hamsters to SARS-CoV-2 infection has made them one of the most utilised small animal models. Our model also predicted that ferret ACE2 has a similar binding strength to the S protein as hamster ACE2 (Table https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-92388-5#Tab2" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif; vertical-align: baseline; color: rgb(35, 121, 181); text-decoration: none; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(235, 244, 249); - 2 ). Again, ferrets have been found permissive to SARS-CoV-2 infection, with high virus titre in the upper respiratory tract, virus shedding, acute bronchiolitis and active virus transmission to naïve ferrets through direct contact https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-92388-5#ref-CR29" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 10.8333px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; color: rgb(35, 121, 181); text-decoration: none; - 29 , https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-92388-5#ref-CR30" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 10.8333px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; color: rgb(35, 121, 181); text-decoration: none; - 30 . DJ-It looks like hamsters may be-so far-more of a problem then mice-in this study...But variants may mutate to being spread by mice-without symptoms in mice... For the plague-pandemics in the past-so not yet for Covid 19; [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_(disease)#Cause[/url] or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_(disease)#Cause ; Transmission of Y. pestis to an uninfected individual is possible by any of the following means: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_(disease)#cite_note-PM-16" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [16]
Yersinia pestis circulates in animal reservoirs, particularly in rodents, in the natural foci of infection found on all continents except Australia. DJ-If non-human host catch the main spread of Covid 19 we are in a totally different pandemic...but notice the similarities in spread... ------------- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. ~Albert Einstein |
Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: June 28 2021 at 3:47am
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26 Jun 2021 08:35AM (Updated: 26 Jun 2021 08:40AM) DJ-"Not yet significant evidence" is waiting for large scale vaccine escape ? See also [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS-CoV-2_Delta_variant#Vaccine_efficacy[/url] or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS-CoV-2_Delta_variant#Vaccine_efficacy - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS-CoV-2_Delta_variant#Vaccine_efficacy ; The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="World Health Organization - WHO has said current vaccines will continue to be effective against the variant. In an update in May, they said there may be some evidence of "reduced neutralization". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS-CoV-2_Delta_variant#cite_note-37" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [37] A study conducted by the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Health_England" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="Public Health England - Public Health England , has found that both https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfizer%E2%80%93BioNTech_COVID-19_vaccine" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="PfizerβBioNTech COVID-19 vaccine - Pfizer-BioNTech and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford%E2%80%93AstraZeneca_COVID-19_vaccine" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="OxfordβAstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine - AstraZeneca-Oxford vaccines provide a 33% protection against symptomatic disease caused by the variant after the first dose. Two weeks after the second dose the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was found to be 88% effective at stopping symptomatic disease from the Delta variant while the AstraZeneca-Oxford vaccine was 60% effective against the variant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS-CoV-2_Delta_variant#cite_note-38" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [38] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS-CoV-2_Delta_variant#cite_note-39" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [39] A group of researchers from the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Crick_Institute" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="Francis Crick Institute - Francis Crick Institute , published in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lancet" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="The Lancet - The Lancet shows that humans fully vaccinated with the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine are likely to have more than five times lower levels of neutralizing antibodies against the Delta variant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS-CoV-2_Delta_variant#cite_note-40" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [40] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS-CoV-2_Delta_variant#cite_note-41" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [41] In June 2021, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Health_England" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="Public Health England - Public Health England announced it had conducted a study which found that after two shots, the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfizer%E2%80%93BioNTech_COVID-19_vaccine" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="PfizerβBioNTech COVID-19 vaccine - Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine and the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford%E2%80%93AstraZeneca_COVID-19_vaccine" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="OxfordβAstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine - AstraZeneca vaccine are respectively 96% and 92% effective at preventing hospitalisation from the Delta variant DJ-If the UK is reporting over 50% of its Covid deaths are fully vaccinated either they did die from age/other illness or the vaccines offer less protection...You need to balance science based studies on what you see in real life...A lot of younger people go for the J&J vaccine-so they can party...we will soon enough find out how vaccines deal with it... Again-more info on Delta+ is needed ! Could it be most of the spread is Delta+-but sequencing is a problem ? ------------- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. ~Albert Einstein |
Posted By: pheasant
Date Posted: June 28 2021 at 6:39am
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This: DJ-If the UK is reporting over 50% of its Covid deaths are fully vaccinated either they did die from age/other illness or the vaccines offer less protection...You need to balance science based studies on what you see in real life...A lot of younger people go for the J&J vaccine-so they can party...we will soon enough find out how vaccines deal with it... Again-more info on Delta+ is needed ! Could it be most of the spread is Delta+-but sequencing is a problem ? Why is this not in the media? This is serious "breakthrough" infections, I have heard nothing of this Stateside.
------------- The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself......FDR |
Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: June 28 2021 at 8:29am
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Don’t think of this as a bad sign, it’s exactly what’s expected from an effective but imperfect jab - As said before - vaccines are ONLY ONE TOOL in the public health tool box. In my opinion the total emphasis by certain governments on vaccine, vaccine, vaccine...gives the public a false impression. Vaccines can be A HELP....but they ARE NOT guaranteed. NO SINGLE TOOL IS THE ANSWER. DJ-An R0 of 6.0 maybe even as high as 8.0...in combination with almost all western countries reopening is unbelievable insane... ------------- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. ~Albert Einstein |
Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: June 28 2021 at 8:30am
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Over 80% of the UK's adult population is vaccinated https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55274833" rel="noopener noreferrer - 3 , so 50% of deaths being in the vaccinated groups shows it is working. Putting it another way, only 20% are unvaccinated, yet they contribute to a whole 50% of deaths. If that is not too much maths already, our death rate has fallen from over a thousand per day to a large handful. Vaccines are never 100% effective. People think themselves immune immediately after vaccination, but full immunity takes 2 weeks or more - IN THE YOUNG AND HEALTHY. Those who have immunocompromised status (HIIV patients , cancer patients, auto imune sufferers and transplantees who take immunosuppressant drugs for instance) cannot recieve full protection from a vaccine. Our fatality numbers are now small enough to fall within these categories several times over. We do seem to be being given the full facts (which makes a nice change), but no one is taking the time to explain the figures in words of one syllable. The greater the proportion of the population vaccinated, the worse the figures look (if you don't look deeply enough). If 100% of the population was vaccinated, 100% of the deaths would be in the vaccinated. Although the death toll would have been a minute fraction of the numbers dying before, it would still look bad initially.* As to the use of vaccines to facilitate social events, you are right. That is just plain stupid! Reuters are currently reporting a need for booster shots, for those who used the J&J vaccine, of the PfizerBiontec or AstraZeneca. So it is looking as if the J&J is less effective. Still no precice figures though - grrr! https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/booster-may-be-needed-jj-shot-delta-variant-spreads-some-experts-already-taking-2021-06-25/" rel="noopener noreferrer - Reuters article, today * At the height of the pandemic the UK reported 1820 Covid deaths https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/20/uk-reports-1820-covid-deaths-in-record-daily-high" rel="noopener noreferrer - 1 The death toll for today was 3. (93 for the past week - an everage of 13 a day.) https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths" rel="noopener noreferrer - 2 ------------- How do you tell if a politician is lying? His lips or pen are moving. |
Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: June 28 2021 at 9:58am
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Coronavirus infections have been rising again over the past two weeks, but serious illness and death remain on a downward trend, indicating that Israel’s vaccination campaign is helping to prevent a major resurgence in morbidity. On June 14, there were 206 active cases in Israel, a figure that had risen to 1,254 as of Monday following a series of local outbreaks. Since then, only a single COVID-19 fatality has been recorded in the country and serious cases have declined from 30 to 22. The spike in cases has had no apparent adverse effect on these numbers, apparently due to the high vaccination levels among older Israelis and those in at-risk groups. Most of the recent cases have been among young people, who are less vulnerable to serious illness. According to the latest Health Ministry figures, 51 percent of active infections are among Israelis who are 19 or younger and 77.3% of those hospitalized in serious condition are unvaccinated. DJ To put numbers in perspective... ------------- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. ~Albert Einstein |
Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: June 29 2021 at 2:50am
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In GISAID UK already 65,101 Delta variant cases detected, US 4,495, Germany 1,401, Singapore 911, Canada 783, Portugal 766, Spain 594, Russia 516, Italy 430, Belgium 395, France 362, South Africa 360, Indonesia 324, Denmark 280, NL 248, Australia 235, Japan 227, Switzerland 226, Mexico 223, Ireland 208, Sweden 167, Finland 126, Norway 115, Israel 113, Poland 101, Thailand 100, Bangladesh 95...Vietnam 72, Uganda 38, Kenya 37... Since sequencing may be 100% of cases in Denmark, 50% of cases in UK rest of the world <5% in "poor countries"less then 1% the real numbers will be much higher... DJ-China earlier reported the Delta variant had an R0 of 6,0 without restrictions-some UK experts would put that at an R0 of 8...still many countries lifting restrictions, increase global air travel...With global vaccination immunity less then 10% we are increasing this pandemic... -Good to get another update. Why didn’t the government listen? -Delta is deadly. Take it very seriously -With South Africa and Australia in winter season and lockdowns back, its not looking good overall. Will be an interesting winter in Europe DJ-The Delta variant is already pushing up cases in Europe +22%, deaths +5% https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/weekly-trends/#weekly_table - https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/weekly-trends/#weekly_table It is already a problem in Europe-and North America is not doing much better cases up +8%, deaths +7%...in weekly trends... Winter in the north part of the globe may see another variant giving problems...maybe a mix of Delta+/Lambda ? So far vaccinations may help to keep hospital cases/deaths limited but most of the "rich countries" are far away from herd immunity. Even Israel-best vaccinated-reporting increase of cases +302%-last week 300 cases became 1,206 cases this week... ------------- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. ~Albert Einstein |
Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: June 30 2021 at 2:12am
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Dr.John Campbell in conversation with Dr. Nigel Ferrier in Western Australia [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vui8VATr30U[/url] or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vui8VATr30U - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vui8VATr30U on the Delta variant. Since Australia has very limited vaccinations-30% of population did get a first vaccine I believe-and natural immunity is almost zero the Delta variant has a lot of chances in Australia. Dr.J.C. describing the Delta variant as a "pandemic on top of a pandemic"... Dr. Ferrier on the Perth/Western Australia cases-15 seconds "contact"-just passing eachother-may be enough for spread....Earlier China reported that same kind of high level of infectiousness... When one looks at the statistics of the UK and Israel-both on the top in vaccinations one has to get very worried... Here in NL over 400 cases per week of the Delta variant returning from vacations in Spain, Portugal... Is insanity the new normal ? On 18 June 2021, Public Health England issued Technical Briefing 16 on SARS-CoV-2 variants, documenting 73 deaths among 60,655 UK cases of SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant with a fatality rate of only 0.1%. This compared with a fatality rate of 1.9% (some 19 times higher) among 224,021 patients whose deaths were associated with the original Alpha variant. China reported short incunation time often 2-3 days...but also seen in Australia-people can test negative first-get out of-up to two weeks-quarantine-and turn out positive...Vaccination results (often ?) in asymptomatic infection...so one could still spread the virus. Since most of the world is less then 10% fully vaccinated-even some US and European states not doing that much better-and doubts on how good some vaccines can stop the Delta variant we are moving towards an almost "Global India scenario"... Oxygen will be only one of the many problems. HCW-ers exhausted and demotivated-since also the spread of the Deltavariant should have been stopped by stopping air travel...-will become another problem. The Delta-variant is pushing the global pandemic even further... ------------- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. ~Albert Einstein |
Posted By: EdwinSm,
Date Posted: June 30 2021 at 9:06am
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I read somewhere that about half of Finland's new covid cases are linked to fans going to St.Petersburg for the Euro football. You can fix stupidity |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: June 30 2021 at 4:35pm
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And then everyone throws their hands in the air,when a new variant "suddenly appears"...... YOU CANT FIX THE STUPITY OF UNEDUCATED PEOPLE......... take care all π·π ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.π Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: Usk
Date Posted: June 30 2021 at 8:38pm
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Yes you can its called evolution in action. Stupid begets bad outcomes |
Posted By: EdwinSm,
Date Posted: June 30 2021 at 10:14pm
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But this would not qualify for a "Darwin Award", as their stupidity affects others and not just themselves. |
Posted By: cobber
Date Posted: June 30 2021 at 10:20pm
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Delta variant is 0.1% CFR. Its about as dangerous as the flu. Ref: June 18, Public Health England report on "SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern and variants under investigation in England" The virus is moving through the community easier, and killing less people. The media would have you believe Delta is more dangerous than original versions. |
Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: July 01 2021 at 2:49am
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DW (Deutsche Welle) Covid19/Delta in Russia [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo75yYHFE2g[/url] or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo75yYHFE2g - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo75yYHFE2g ; Russia is in the middle of its third coronavirus wave - thanks to the rapidly spreading Delta variant. The authorities are sounding the alarm: The new mutation accounts for almost 90 percent of new cases. Officials are talking about more than 20,000 new infections every day, most of them in Moscow. To get the situation under control, the Russian capital has reopened field hospitals and built medical stations especially for coronavirus. All hospitals are quickly being reequipped to handle COVID-19 patients. But their main goal is to get more citizens vaccinated against COVID-19. Russia was the first country in the world to get a vaccine to market - with Sputnik Vee. So far, however, only 10 percent of the population has been vaccinated. The government wants that to change - by decree. From now on, all companies in Moscow must have at least 60 percent of their workforce vaccinated. Restaurants are still open, if only until 11 p.m. But in the future, only people who have been vaccinated, or who have a medical certificate showing they have recovered, or who have a negative PCR test, will be allowed to eat there. They will have to scan a QR code issued by the Moscow health authority. That means all service-sector employees have to get the jab. Anyone who refuses will be fired. Those who take part will be rewarded. But even these unprecedented measures are a far cry from the tough lockdown the government imposed last year as infections began to rise. Virologists say it's a case of too little, too late - and that the third wave could be Russia's most devastating yet. DJ-Since the Delta variant is 2/2.2 times more infectious then the early 2020 Covid variant-and vaccinations/NPI are "limited" at best-with health care getting exhausted-the pandemic again is getting worse. Even in the UK with lots of vaccinations and people taking care/social distance etc. cases, hospital admission and deaths are going up. Vaccines may limit the damage-but variants will mutate further towards immune escape. ------------- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. ~Albert Einstein |
Posted By: EdwinSm,
Date Posted: July 01 2021 at 9:32am
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Also, with the hesitation that India (were Delta was first detected) has not been seen to do widespread testing, their reported CFR is 1.3% - so worse than flu. |
Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: July 01 2021 at 10:08am
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Cobber, the Delta variant is about as deadly as the flu, but it is FAR more contagious. So it actually kills far more than the flu. The damage done by a contagion is due to its mortality and its transmissability. The drop in death rate is from vaccination, not a less deadly variant. The Delta variant is actually more deadly than the original strain. Do you need this in words of one syllable? This bug kills like flu. More folk get this bug than get the flu. So this bug kills lots more folk than the flu. Masks and jabs help fight this bug. If we stop their use, it will kill lots more. This bug makes folk sick for a long time too and that is bad. This new bug type is worse than the old bug was. OK? Do you get it now? ------------- How do you tell if a politician is lying? His lips or pen are moving. |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: July 01 2021 at 2:36pm
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Why bother Techno, Falling on DEAF EARS ...... Rather listen to a dog bark all night.... Take care all π·π ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.π Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: July 01 2021 at 3:04pm
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Voice of America: Britain Faces Travel Bans Amid Soaring Delta Variant Infections. https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/britain-faces-travel-bans-amid-soaring-delta-variant-infections - https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/britain-faces-travel-bans-amid-soaring-delta-variant-infections Hey cobber ,maybe you should share your Vast knowledge ....... With the people pulling the strings....... lmao ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.π Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: July 01 2021 at 4:15pm
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Our vaccination rates are very high (80+%) yet our infection rates are still soaring (26 thousand today) but happily our death rate remains very low (22 today). Our vaccines seem to be doing the trick - but doing the trick in preventing deaths, not preventing infections. Yet our general population seem to think they are free of the damn bug! Not sick is not the same as no risk to others. So it makes a great deal of sense to ban us from other countries. We are at risk of infecting and killing all unvaccinated people; in some countries that is almost everyone! We really need to ring bells and to shout: "Unclean!" as we walk by - as lepers did in times gone by.
------------- How do you tell if a politician is lying? His lips or pen are moving. |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: July 01 2021 at 4:49pm
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Someone will play the racist card,as they did here when we stopped flights from India....... Makes me so angry, Backward, ignorant people..... Too insular to realise it's not about them........ It's for the greater good....... Take care all π·π ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.π Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: ViQueen24
Date Posted: July 02 2021 at 8:21am
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Edwin, Techno, I applaud you. It is good to state the obvious, just in case it is not obvious to someone who may be reading. But as far as the one your replies were specifically addressed to:
------------- I am the DZ Queen, and I approve this message. |
Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: July 04 2021 at 2:35am
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DJ-Trying to follow statistics on "how bad the Delta variant is"....According to embedded media, science/politics for sale; -Vaccines offer good protection - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/997418/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_17.pdf" style="color: rgb(56, 56, 56); text-decoration: underline; outline: none; white-space: pre-wrap; overflow-wrap: break-word; - UK researchers found the Pfizer vaccine had an efficacy of 33% against Delta after a single shot, and 88% after both doses. In the case of the AstraZeneca vaccine, the efficacy was just 33% after the first dose but went up to 60% after the second dose. The Delta plus variant might have a similar degree of reduction in efficacy against the vaccines currently in use. Though we’re yet see good data on whether this is the case. DJ-I notice a downward trend in protection offered by vaccines. [url]https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00202-4/fulltext[/url] or https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00202-4/fulltext ; A key component of any plausible strategy towards the permanent removal of non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) is ensuring low case numbers in the short to medium term using NPIs and vaccination. Assuming a fixed vaccine escape mutation probability per infection (p), the risk of a vaccine escape variant arising in a specified time period is 1 – (1 – p)N, where N represents the number of cases in that period. Crucially, this expression indicates that the vaccine escape risk is sensitive to background incidence; the risk of an escape variant appearing within a fixed time is an increasing function of incidence (figure). Reducing cases is not only beneficial for decreasing the pressure on health-care systems, but also for lowering the vaccine escape risk. Of course, there are fundamental differences between using NPIs and vaccines to lower incidence. When considering vaccines that do not prevent transmission entirely, there is an interplay between reduced cases at the population-level and the potential for selection for vaccine escape variants in infected vaccinated hosts. , , A related question is whether it is most beneficial to vaccinate many individuals using single vaccine doses or fewer individuals twice. Dose-sparing strategies could in theory lead to selection for vaccine escape variants. - However, evidence suggests tentatively that the net vaccine escape risk is lower when more hosts are vaccinated with single doses than when fewer hosts are vaccinated twice due to reduced cases. - In summary, high SARS-CoV-2 incidence rates act to increase the vaccine escape risk. Maintaining low case numbers using NPIs and vaccines is crucial at this time. - According to a http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1002198" rel="noopener noreferrer" style='-webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; box-sizing: inherit; background-color: transparent; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none; border-color: currentcolor; color: rgb(1, 173, 185); font-family: "Proxima Nova", system-ui, sans-serif; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;'>new study published today in the scientific journal PLOS Biology, some types of vaccines could allow more virulent versions of a virus to survive, putting those who are unvaccinated at greater risk of severe illness. This means ; -Present vaccinations in this pandemic may cause new variants. -A high number of infections may increase risk of (further) vaccine escape. -Allready present vaccines show less protection against the Delta(+) variant DJ-It would be welcome to see statistics on how many fully vaccinated people still get infected. Also-after infection-do they show no symptoms, spread the virus...or sometimes do get symptoms but not spread the virus seems also a reasonable question... Here in NL we do NOT even have good statistics on fully vaccinated people...Linking infections to vaccines and variants needs good data...When those basic numbers are not there we have to rely on "studies" often dated studies... -Some basic statistics on the story of "mild hay fever symptoms"; Here in NL hospital cases still going down...but cases exploding...Very likely most-if not all-allready the Delta variant...allthough "embedded press/experts/politics" try to claim increased testing may be most of the story...since they have been pushing for reopening (paid by the same "club" as the zerohedge-nonsense claiming only old and fat die from Covid...?) Another "story" is young people and vaccinated only get-at worst-mild symptoms...I expect hospital cases also to go up mid july...due to "mild hay fever like symptoms"...maybe we will see some restrictions by then in NL... ------------- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. ~Albert Einstein |
Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: July 06 2021 at 1:46am
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Israel cases up +88%...last week 1,206-this week 2,269-deaths stay low...[url]https://datadashboard.health.gov.il/COVID-19/general[/url] or https://datadashboard.health.gov.il/COVID-19/general - https://datadashboard.health.gov.il/COVID-19/general showing increase of severe disease (translate not doing the best job..). - Of the new infections, 31 recently returned from abroad and the rest were infected via community transmission. The R number, the average number of secondary infections from a single person, currently stands at 1.43. - The morbidity rate among children aged 0-11 has also quadrupled in the last week. The number of cases in this age group in Tel Aviv constitutes almost a third of the total morbidity of the age group across the country. In contrast, there was no significant increase in morbidity among youths aged 12-18. DJ-Israel is top in vaccinations (most Pfizer-but the differences between vaccines may be limited). Of course under 12 y/o often are not vaccinated...but they were supposed not to get very ill... Johnson said England was still seeing a rising number of Covid-19 infections and hospital admissions, warning that there could be 50,000 cases per day by July 19. “We must reconcile ourselves sadly to more deaths from Covid,” he said, adding that the government must take a “careful and balanced” decision on restrictions. Johnson said he expects the government will be able to lift the majority of remaining restrictions on July 19, with a review of the latest health data set for July 12. - Speaking alongside the PM on Monday, England’s chief medical officer Professor Chris Whitty warned of the potential pressure Covid-19 may place on the National Health Service (NHS) next winter. “This coming winter may be very difficult for the NHS, and I don’t think that’s a particularly controversial point,” he said. On Monday the UK reported a further nine deaths within 28 days of a positive Covid test, and more than 27,000 new infections. The current rate of infection is 230 per 100,000 people, and in the last seven days there has been a 50% increase in new cases compared to the previous week, according to the latest government data. DJ The UK is also supposed to be among the best protected countries...[url]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/weekly-trends/#weekly_table[/url] or https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/weekly-trends/#weekly_table - https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/weekly-trends/#weekly_table cases up +54%, deaths +5%...Coming winter "getting very difficult" statement in july by a Professor should be seen as a major warning ! [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variants_of_SARS-CoV-2#Delta_(lineage_B.1.617.2)[/url] or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variants_of_SARS-CoV-2#Delta_(lineage_B.1.617.2) ; On 3 June 2021, Public Health England reported that twelve of the 42 deaths from the Delta variant in England were among the fully vaccinated, and that it was spreading almost twice as fast as the Alpha variant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variants_of_SARS-CoV-2#cite_note-149" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [129] Also on 11 June, Foothills Medical Centre in Calgary, Canada reported that half of their 22 cases of the Delta variant occurred among the fully vaccinated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variants_of_SARS-CoV-2#cite_note-150" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [130] In June 2021, reports began to appear of a variant of Delta with the K417N mutation dubbed the "Nepal variant". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variants_of_SARS-CoV-2#cite_note-151" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [131] The mutation, also present in the Beta variant, has raised concerns about the possibility of reduced effectiveness of vaccines and antibody treatments and increased risk of reinfection. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variants_of_SARS-CoV-2#cite_note-152" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [132] The variant, called "Delta with K417N" by Public Health England, includes two clades corresponding to the Pango lineages AY.1 and AY.2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variants_of_SARS-CoV-2#cite_note-briefing17-153" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [133] It has been nicknamed "Delta plus" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variants_of_SARS-CoV-2#cite_note-154" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [134] from "Delta plus K417N". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variants_of_SARS-CoV-2#cite_note-155" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [135] On 22 June, India's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Health_and_Family_Welfare" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="Ministry of Health and Family Welfare - Ministry of Health and Family Welfare declared the "Delta plus" variant of COVID-19 a Variant of Concern after 22 cases of the variant were reported in India. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variants_of_SARS-CoV-2#cite_note-156" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [136] After the announcement, leading virologists said there was insufficient data to support labelling the strain as a distinct variant of concern, pointing to the small number of patients studied DJ-India cases -12% deaths -33%...but the numbers may be "political manipulated"... Also in NL some cases of people catching infection after fully vaccination did show up. But still limited and not yet clear enough... ------------- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. ~Albert Einstein |
Posted By: ME163
Date Posted: July 06 2021 at 3:48am
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Josh, I have been thinking about all of the work that you and the others have done to help us. I understand what is going on here. We are thankful that the group has been so supportive over the past year and a half. Sometimes I wonder if our leaders have made a decision that shutdowns and restrictions are ineffective against the virus due to low or no vaccination rates in other parts of the world and have made the political choice to reopen despite the new variants. They don't care about the human costs anymore and are focused on a return to normal. The veneer of normalcy and a somewhat pandemic fatigued public helps to get our society back to normal. Normal is what they want us to do. Behind the scenes, they are panicked. A few weelks ago i asked a friend who was still in the federal civil service about what he thought was going on. He said that TPTB have accepted higher deaths and higher human disease because they have to keep the system working, taxxes paid , He mentioned a need to keep agriculture working and food processing and distribution working. They kept mentioning the black deah and the 1918 pandemic. He also said that the vaccines are a stop gap. They know that the virus was made in a lab and was deliberately put out to cause chaos and hasten the decline of the West. They know that the vrius will work around the vaccines and win in the short term. They know that it will look bad for several more years and that millions will die. TPTB have made a decision and we have to live or die with it. |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: July 06 2021 at 5:11am
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I tend to agree with your hypothesis, I think that governments have now provided the vaccine,and now with X amount have been vaccinated they will say,we have done our best now it's up to you..... . I don't agree that it's a deliberate release, But I think after 2 years we have to open up and take our chances,if you haven't been vaccinated well that's YOUR FAULT..... So go get a shot, Seems like the chumps supporter's are still anti Vax..... Well that's tough and natural selection is invoked...... The variants have me concerned...... And we will have to have boosters every 6/12 months..... But as Jackdad said months ago this is a "slow burn" virus..... Take care all π·π ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.π Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: July 06 2021 at 5:27am
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Germany —with more than 56% of its population vaccinated with one dose, and 39% fully vaccinated —is making giant strides towards a crucial point in https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-digest-covid-case-numbers-in-europe-rising-again-warns-who/a-58115347" style="color: rgb(0, 135, 235); text-decoration: none; - combatting the pandemic : the point when herd immunity can be achieved by vaccinating 85 to 90% of the population. This goal can only be reached if skeptics and refusers can be convinced to get vaccinated. So far, the campaign has not managed to persuade them. DJ- The "blame game"; here in NL politics now is telling the media they based reopening decissions on experts opinion...Earlier some experts already made it clear they did NOT agree with the political reopening choices...Of course "WE" do it wrong ! Always blame the citizens... Blaming China is part of the blame-game...kick the can down the road..hope the crisis will go away...wishfull thinking... ME163-The Powers That Be (TPTB) seem to have no idea what to do...no plan...Their advisors are Big Pharma...The hardest hit countries are not the western countries. Peru did-in official numbers-see already over 0,5% die in this pandemic... From a historical point of view-till around 1900 infectious diseases killed more people per year then even during the Spanish flu died per year...(if I get that correct-I did try to find historic data...). Better housing, hygiene, sewage, clean water, better (knowledge of) healthcare all made a difference... How this pandemic further develops may be a hard question..if Covid19-variants spread to non-human hosts it may get much, much worse...I simply do not have the knowledge to claim earlier pandemics at least sticked to one species...(allthough coming from another species). The Delta variant will-almost for certain-not be the last wave...If UK already is warning for a hard winter...Several countries (Spain, France, Norway etc.) are not reopening or going-again-for restrictions... ------------- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. ~Albert Einstein |
Posted By: ViQueen24
Date Posted: July 06 2021 at 7:40am
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I doubt if it was a deliberate release. If hastening the demise of Western Civilization was their goal, they lose. Their vaxxes don't seem to be as effective as ours and more of them are dying therefore. As Carbon said, the people who are dying over here at present are the unvaxxed. Natural selection. Hopefully that trend will continue through any and all variants, if necessary, with the assistance of booster shots. ------------- I am the DZ Queen, and I approve this message. |
Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: July 09 2021 at 2:27am
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1) Holy cow—the insane “logic that more people infected is better is **MORAL EMPTINESS and EPIDEMIOLOGICAL STUPIDITY**” is the best critique of & ’s “living with the virus” . #COVID19 2) Reminder— Pandemicidal policies of encouraging mass infection is complete and utter lunacy. should also be ashamed of himself for going along with it. 3) ’s govt advisors have seriously gone ridiculously mad and / or lost all moral compass. needs to resign if he truly feels morally uncomfortable with this. 4) As reminder, all critical measures of hospitalizations, ICU mechanical ventilation beds, and deaths all rising in England and want to let virus spread and “live with the virus” by callously declaring “freedom day”! Let this sink in—currently 43 #COVID19 hospitalized in Sydney 5) The #DeltaVariant is particularly 1 dose vaccine evasive. Only 18-30% with one dose, much lower than before. Two doses better much much weaker. Scotland found 79% two dose Pfizer efficacy for #DeltaVariant infection, while Israel found 64-70%. 6) Israel’s ministry of health reported a 64% efficacy of 2 dose Pfizer in June when #DeltaVariant dominant, compared to 94% just in May recently. That’s a big drop. Another Israel study found 70% against delta, but same ballpark. Hospitalization efficacy now 93% instead of 98% 7) If you want to see what #DeltaVariant can do once it hits ~99-100% dominant, England is a notable rise in hospitalizations. England is even more fully vaccinated than the US. Yet still increase. This is why Australia cannot release its #COVID19 mitigation measures yet! 8) Sounds like New South Wales is having a hard time with compliance. They need to upgrade they masks and add more ventilation and indoor air disinfection too. DJ While Pfizer-for profit-is trying to sell yet another vaccine/booster shot the vaccine strategy can not keep up with variants spread...Basicly vaccination/Big Pharma strategy may be making matters worse...pushing variants towards resistent variants able to infect hosts over and over again... ------------- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. ~Albert Einstein |
Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: July 11 2021 at 8:25am
Most of the vaccinated people who have been recently infected got the shot around January, figures given to Health Ministry show; some caution it’s too early to draw conclusions.There is a growing correlation between vaccinated Israelis who have been infected with the Delta variant of the coronavirus and those who were among the first to get the vaccine, possibly indicating that the vaccine’s protection fades over time, a report said Sunday. However, some experts working with the Health Ministry cautioned that it was too early to draw conclusions, since the sample size was too small and those who were vaccinated first are mostly the elderly, who have a weaker immune system to begin with. - In Israel, the first to get the shot were mainly people over the age of 70, who are more vulnerable to COVID-19. But Haas believes that even when controlling for age and other factors, the main reason for the renewed outbreak is that the vaccine’s protection fades over time, not that the Delta strain bypasses it. DJ-Vaccines offering less protection due to time NOT variant....in older people with a less effective immune system. If time is a factor we will learn that in other countries...could be a mix of variants getting better in evading (older) vaccines in certain age groups-so they become less protected by the vaccines. A booster shot could then be usefull. ------------- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. ~Albert Einstein |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: July 11 2021 at 2:32pm
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It could be a little of both ,Delta a bit different, immunity fading...... The only problem with this is ultimately the virus changes....wether that's for good or evil....... i'll consult my Oracle......!!!!! In the meantime I'll get my second shot of Az ,and then maybe go for a mRNA..... always liked a cocktail...... usually a extra dry Martini(2 olive's)........lol ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.π Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: KiwiMum
Date Posted: July 11 2021 at 2:32pm
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The problem is with this being a novel virus we just don't know what the timescale is with either natural immunity, vaccine related immunity or with the evolution of the virus. History will look back at this, much like we do with the Spanish Flu of 1918, and comment on our successes and failures but at the moment we're literally flying blind. ------------- Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesnβt accord with the facts. |
Posted By: Kilt5
Date Posted: July 14 2021 at 5:47pm
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After being initially identified in India in October, the delta variant has since been reported in at least 104 countries around the globe and is expected to soon be the dominant coronavirus variant circulating worldwide, according to the World Health Organization. The variant was first detected in the U.S. in March and is now present in all 50 states. "The delta variant is ripping around the world at a scorching pace, driving a new spike in cases and death," WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Gebreyesus said during a COVID-19 press briefing on Monday. https://abcnews.go.com/Health/delta-variant-now-accounts-58-covid-19-cases/story?id=78834579 - https://abcnews.go.com/Health/delta-variant-now-accounts-58-covid-19-cases/story?id=78834579 |
Posted By: Tabitha111
Date Posted: July 19 2021 at 7:07am
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Reading this past Sunday's local newspaper, came across the obit of an ex-boyfriend of mine. He was only 58. A Virginia Beach police officer, died of Covid on the fourth of July. ------------- 'A man who does not think and plan long ahead will find trouble right at his door.' --Confucius |
Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: July 19 2021 at 7:39am
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From [url]https://twitter.com/DrEricDing[/url] or https://twitter.com/DrEricDing - https://twitter.com/DrEricDing (see also [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Feigl-Ding[/url] or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Feigl-Ding - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Feigl-Ding ) ; And as reminder — #DeltaVariant is leaps and bounds faster transmission than any other variant. Dr , who led smallpox eradication, even says Delta is more transmissible than smallpox!!! And it took his team years to eradicate smallpox! - WOW—one case at a soccer game went from initial infection to transmission to another person in just under **30 hours**!!! That is likely the fastest transmission ever formally documented during the pandemic. And yes it’s #DeltaVariant - damn damn damn. This is bad. - Want proof of another outdoor fleeting transmission case? Here it is — an outdoor cafe infection of fleeting contact — confirmed via even genomic sequencing to match the exact virus strain!! This is very strong proof it happened. This is why I worry - multiple bad signals. - in light of the above #DeltaVariant data, these partying at a nightclub in London as coronavirus restrictions are lifted by callous Boris Johnson and are pretty insane. DJ-There should be a law against insane "leaders"...BoJo, rutte (NL) are no better then bolsonaro...in Brazil committing genocide on the poor...(see also [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox[/url] or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox#Transmission - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox#Transmission ) ------------- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. ~Albert Einstein |
Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: July 23 2021 at 10:17am
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According to the latest Health Ministry figures from Thursday morning, the number of COVID-19 patients in serious condition is now at 72, nine up from Wednesday's figure. There are also more patients on life support, going from 12 on Wednesday to 15. A total of 145 Israeli COVID-19 patients are currently hospitalized. Israel confirmed 1,336 new cases on Wednesday, with the rate of positive tests largely unchanged, at 1.74 percent. Of the confirmed carriers, 52 percent are fully vaccinated, and 38 percent are 18 or younger. Health Minister Nitzan Horowitz said on Wednesday "We understand that the coronavirus isn't going anywhere soon. Our strategy is clear – live with the coronavirus." Horowitz said the next school year will open "in full" thanks, in part, to rapid home testing authorities plan to make widely available. The director-general of the Health Ministry, Prof. Nachman Ash, said on Wednesday that the ministry supports taking “immediate steps” to stop the spread of the virus. In an interview with Israeli news website Ynet, Ash said that although the number of critically ill patients remains relatively low, "it’s best to act now. It will be difficult to stop once we reach larger numbers." DJ-Allthough Israel testing of Pfizer against Delta may not be according to international testing protocol; [url]https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/israel-finds-pfizer-jab-only-39-effective-stopping-delta-variant[/url] or https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/israel-finds-pfizer-jab-only-39-effective-stopping-delta-variant - https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/israel-finds-pfizer-jab-only-39-effective-stopping-delta-variant ; Over the past month, Israel, the world's most heavily vaccinated country (with leading mRNA jabs, no less) has seen the number of positive COVID tests has risen by more than 30x as the number of active infections in the country has surpassed 10K. Meanwhile, the Israeli Health Ministry, which has previously estimated the true efficacy of the Pfizer jab against the delta variant https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/pfizer-plans-seek-authorization-booster-dose-protect-against-delta-variant" style="box-sizing: border-box; text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(20, 112, 178); - at only 64% (while still more than 90% effective at preventing serious illness and death), just released new data purporting to show that while the Pfizer jab is still 88% effective at preventing serious illness, it's only 39% effective at preventing infection with delta. Alex Berenson, a former NYT journalist who has often reported on scientific findings that don't support the official narrative on masks and vaccines, shared the findings in a tweet, and speculated that the true efficacy in offering protection against the Delta variant might be even lower - perhaps as low as 30%. DJ UK testing shows-still-a higher level of protection from Pfizer...only the UK used most Astra Zeneca vaccines...Israel used most Pfizer vaccines ! So I take these Israeli stories very serious ! It is very likely SEVERAL variants may become "very good" in evading immunity...NOT stopping virus spread is speeding up vaccine escape mutations. Vaccinated people will more often get severe symptoms and long covid. It is an illusion we could "vaccinate ourselves" out of a pandemic without also NPI. On the longer term maybe new vaccines may offer some perspectives ? Then in combination with lots of restrictions etc ? This may take years....Governments should prepare the general public for "long term pandemic"...(DJ-It is good there is internet etc...). ------------- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. ~Albert Einstein |
Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: July 28 2021 at 4:55am
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With other diseases like Ebola, killing faster means killing too fast to infect many others, so this type of virus doesn’t prevail. Only the ones who at the same time evolve to be less deadly win. But for COVID in our current health system, all the contagions happen early on, much earlier than death. So making death earlier doesn’t matter much. So is this what’s happening with Delta? Yeah. One way to tell is the viral load. The higher it is, the more the virus is present. In China, they https://virological.org/t/viral-infection-and-transmission-in-a-large-well-traced-outbreak-caused-by-the-delta-sars-cov-2-variant/724" style="color: var(--print_pop); text-decoration: none; - estimated the viral load of Delta to be 1,000 times higher than that of the original variant. The most frustrating thing is that this was completely predictable, not just in December, but even in March of 2020.  DJ-Not a nice story... ------------- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. ~Albert Einstein |
Posted By: KiminNM
Date Posted: July 28 2021 at 7:55am
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We're right back in the 'more bad news drops multiple times a day' phase. I did not want to have to go through this again. IT DIDN'T HAVE TO BE THIS WAY! |
Posted By: Pixie
Date Posted: July 28 2021 at 9:14am
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Here is a worthwhile tweet furnished by author https://deadline.com/tag/stephen-king/ - Stephen King . Even though his monumental pandemic novel https://deadline.com/tag/the-stand/ - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jwN5vYGiZws&feature=youtu.be - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jwN5vYGiZws&feature=youtu.be |
Posted By: KiminNM
Date Posted: July 28 2021 at 10:17am
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Thanks for this. Since I read the book when it first came out, and then read it again at some point, I'm now wondering if it had an impact on my 'take this stuff seriously' mindset! |
Posted By: Tabitha111
Date Posted: August 03 2021 at 12:56pm
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I may be over doing it right now...but can anyone blame me for not walking the dog by the day care playground anymore? All the kiddies come up to the fence and want to pet him and I can only think of Delta floating on a cloud towards me! I am talking over 30 elementary school kiddos here. I am double vaxxed, but our retirement community is "recommending masks" right now. All staff have to wear them, but of course all of thier schnazzes are hanging out - so what is the point? I sometimes feel I am the only person living in reality. My friend here- her grandaughter has pneumonia - 31, not vaxxed...I said it sounds like Covid- they are waiting on the results. ------------- 'A man who does not think and plan long ahead will find trouble right at his door.' --Confucius |
Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: August 03 2021 at 1:39pm
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Yep! I have always sympathised with Cassandra; never so much as now though. ------------- How do you tell if a politician is lying? His lips or pen are moving. |
Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: August 08 2021 at 2:50am
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Good info on Delta variant; A coronavirus (COVID-19) variant has become dominant in the USA and Roger Seheult, MD of MedCram responds to 10 common questions including: If someone is fully vaccinated or already had COVID, how worried should they be about the Delta Variant? Is Long COVID occurring in the fully vaccinated? When is this surge going to peak? Can we learn from other countries? Should we be getting booster COVID vaccine doses? Are more children getting hospitalized with COVID 19 Delta variant? What happens when school starts? Have treatment and testing strategies changed for Delta variant? What can we do to protect ourselves and our communities from the coronavirus Delta variant and future COVID mutations? This video was recorded on August 6, 2021 Roger Seheult, MD is the co-founder and lead professor at https://www.medcram.com He is Board Certified in Internal Medicine, Pulmonary Disease, Critical Care, and Sleep Medicine and an Associate Professor at the University of California, Riverside School of Medicine. DJ At 10 minutes-who is better of getting 1 million $ or 1 penny/cent doubling for 30 days ? Answer after 30 days you end up with 5,368,709 $...just showing the exponential factor... Also Delta most likely will NOT be dominant this winter...but another Covid variant most likely allready spreading... DJ-Not good news-but realistic info ! ------------- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. ~Albert Einstein |
Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: August 13 2021 at 8:31am
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[url]https://twitter.com/DFisman[/url] or https://twitter.com/DFisman - https://twitter.com/DFisman ; Sharing this via twitter because I think it's in the public interest to know: we now have enough delta cases in kids, and enough pediatric hospitalizations in Ontario, that we can estimate the odds ratio for hospitalization with delta. It is increased, OR = 2.75 (1.59 to 4.49) Premier Ford visited St. Joseph’s hospital in Hamilton to thank front line health care workers for their contribution during the pandemic. While the thanks are kind, his government’s real wage cuts for hospital workers for the next 3 years are not. Breathtaking insincerity. - Last 7 days 39,767 new child Covid cases, England. One year ago 799 Last 7 days 278 admitted to hospital with Covid One year ago 16 Last 7 days an extra 1,750 may suffer #LongCovidKids One year ago 35 DJ Here in NL R0 has been going up...from 0,79 to 0,87 representing the R0 of july 29...so by now the R0 in NL most likely above 1...Still schools soon will reopen without good ventilation, social distancing, masks, testing, .....criminal ! ------------- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. ~Albert Einstein |
Posted By: CRS, DrPH
Date Posted: August 24 2021 at 9:25pm
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This is a very good overview article on SARS-CoV2, I recommend it! Lots of discussion about the future & potential impact of variants. https://www.statnews.com/2021/08/20/viral-evolution-101-coronavirus/ - https://www.statnews.com/2021/08/20/viral-evolution-101-coronavirus/ Viral evolution 101: Why the coronavirus has changed as it has, and what it means going forward ------------- CRS, DrPH |
Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: August 24 2021 at 10:40pm
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DJ-From the article; “A virus just can’t change a couple amino acids and completely evade the totality of the immune response,” said virologist Angela Rasmussen of the University of Saskatchewan’s Vaccine and Infectious Disease Organization, referring to the building blocks that make up the virus. Our first line of defenders is antibodies, some of which are trained to recognize specific pieces of the virus and prevent it from infecting cells. If mutations change those components — akin to putting on a fake mustache and sunglasses — then perhaps the antibodies geared to identify the virus’ upper lip or eyes might be fooled. The virus could gain a toehold and start an infection. But the vaccines have primed our bodies to recognize other parts of the virus, and to have waves of responders. Antibodies that latch on to other parts of the virus could kick in, and immune cells that help clear out infections before they cause much damage could arrive as reinforcements. Maybe that should be the biggest worry; If you compare the virus-RNA string with a worm. The part that is "biting/infecting" us may now be in the front...but it could develop all over the strain... To compare the RNA-string further with a worm...it's "teeth" may be even at different locations. The worm has to put itself in a certain position to form a "mouth" to be able to bite... So far this virus has been so full of surprises it is very likely to develop towards getting "more agressive" (Also UK-SAGE study goes in that direction). The changes go further than a "fake mustache and sunglasses"-it could develop a different face...not recognizable for the immune system. (In a bizarre comparison it would be a person that changed his head...). In my opinion the risks for a resistant variant are increasing. Wishfull thinking does not help ! Delta has a R0 of between 5 and 8-vaccines in combination with strong restrictions may get the R0 under 1...stop the spread. Vaccines to give up on restrictions is bagging for new-worse-variants (with a R0 towards 12...). "Living with the variant" is like living with a wildfire hoping rain will stop it before it reaches your house...I know going for restrictions is a very hard way to go...not doing so may show itself-very likely within six months-still to be a worse choice. I am NOT an expert...just trying to make sense. Summer 2020 did not save us, vaccines did not get us out of this pandemic...False promisses, wishfull thinking, is not helping in any crisis. When you look at history the pandemic triangle; disease-hosts-spread has a much higher "spread" factor now...Covid19 would proberbly stayed very limited-maybe not noticed-if it was in 1519 not in 2019...Spread is the motor behind this pandemic-also making the disease more infectious. Part 3-hosts-so far is only limited to human hosts... ------------- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. ~Albert Einstein |
Posted By: CRS, DrPH
Date Posted: August 25 2021 at 12:00am
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Thanks, DJ! I agree, it is a confusing virus! Realize that we have co-existed with other corona virus for many thousands of years....most of them are benign, causing the common cold. They initially started out as more deadly, as did COVID-19. My wife and I still follow the same protocols we did at the beginning of the pandemic, including masking, social distancing, hand washing etc. We avoid dining out and only shop with masks. We are as tired of it as everyone else, but there is so much uncertainty about immunity, effectiveness of vaccines etc. that we are being prudent. Take care, my friend! My Great-Grandfather was named "Lindelsee!" ------------- CRS, DrPH |
Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: August 25 2021 at 1:18am
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CRS,DrPH- Since I am NOT an expert "just" following the story I know there is a risk of me wrinting (to much) non-sense. I try to limit that...try to check it...But there is an "ocean of info" and not all of it is directing in the same directions... Wishfull thinking is only human. I wish we were out of this pandemic, in many ways living with this pandemic is getting exhausting... "Lindelsee" to be honest sounds more German...[url]https://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=lindelsee[/url] or https://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=lindelsee - https://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=lindelsee there are lotst of paid data-geneology sites-often asking money for info that is available for free elsewere...But some Germans first lived in NL then moved further...(Gilbert N. ???) [url]https://stadsarchief.rotterdam.nl/zoek-en-ontdek/passagierslijsten/[/url] or https://stadsarchief.rotterdam.nl/zoek-en-ontdek/passagierslijsten/ - https://stadsarchief.rotterdam.nl/zoek-en-ontdek/passagierslijsten/ has names of passengers on the Holland America Line...[url]https://heritage.statueofliberty.org/[/url] or https://heritage.statueofliberty.org/ - https://heritage.statueofliberty.org/ has lists of people getting into the US (my grandfather is on that list for 1907...he returned a few years later to NL...) ... When I think of the US maybe 10% of US "culture" maybe from NL...certainly in New York State...Dutch was spoken/used till the end of the 19th century at public places (churches, some schools, but also some basic bookkeeping was in Dutch...Martin van Buren [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Van_Buren[/url] or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Van_Buren - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Van_Buren was born in a place called "Kinderhook" (In Dutch it would be "Kinderhoek") [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinderhook_(town),_New_York[/url] or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinderhook_(town),_New_York Most linguists look to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_language" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="Dutch language - Dutch language sources, noting the extensive interaction between the Dutch colonists in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Netherland" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="New Netherland - New Netherland (now largely New York, New Jersey, Delaware, and western Connecticut) and the English colonists in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="New England - New England ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_Bay_Colony" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="Massachusetts Bay Colony - Massachusetts , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_of_Rhode_Island_and_Providence_Plantations" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="Colony of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations - Rhode Island , and eastern https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecticut_Colony" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="Connecticut Colony - Connecticut ). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yankee#cite_note-MW-8" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [8] The exact application, however, is uncertain; some scholars suggest that it was a term used in derision of the Dutch colonists, others that it was derisive of the English colonists. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Quinion" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="Michael Quinion - Michael Quinion and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Hanks" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="Patrick Hanks - Patrick Hanks argue that the term comes from the Dutch name Janneke, a diminutive form of Jan (John) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yankee#cite_note-posh-13" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [13] which would be Anglicized as "Yankee" due to the Dutch pronunciation of J as the English Y. Quinion and Hanks posit that it was "used as a nickname for a Dutch-speaking American in colonial times" and could have grown to include non-Dutch colonists, as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yankee#cite_note-posh-13" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [13] The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_English_Dictionary" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="Oxford English Dictionary - Oxford English Dictionary calls this theory "perhaps the most plausible". Alternatively, the Dutch given names Jan (Dutch: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/Dutch" style="text-decoration: none !important; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="Help:IPA/Dutch - [jΙn] ) and Kees (Dutch: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/Dutch" style="text-decoration: none !important; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="Help:IPA/Dutch - [keΛs] ) have long been common, and the two are sometimes combined into a single name (Jan Kees). Its Anglicized spelling Yankee could, in this way, have been used to mock Dutch colonists. The chosen name Jan Kees may have been partly inspired by a dialectal rendition of Jan Kaas ("John Cheese"), the generic nickname that Southern Dutch used for Dutch people living in the North. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yankee#cite_note-yanky-14" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [14] The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_Etymology_Dictionary" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="Online Etymology Dictionary - Online Etymology Dictionary gives its origin as around 1683, when English colonists used it insultingly in reference to Dutch colonists (especially https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="Piracy - freebooters . Linguist https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_de_Vries_(linguist)" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="Jan de Vries (linguist) - Jan de Vries notes that there was mention of a pirate named https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yankey_Willems" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="Yankey Willems - Dutch Yanky in the 17th century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yankee#cite_note-15" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [15] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Life_and_Adventures_of_Sir_Launcelot_Greaves" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="The Life and Adventures of Sir Launcelot Greaves - The Life and Adventures of Sir Launcelot Greaves (1760) contains the passage, "Haul forward thy chair again, take thy berth, and proceed with thy story in a direct course, without yawing like a Dutch yanky." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yankee#cite_note-16" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [16] According to this theory, Dutch settlers of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Amsterdam" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="New Amsterdam - New Amsterdam started using the term against the English colonists of neighboring Connecticut. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yankee#cite_note-yanky-14" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [14] Is just one of many examples of NL-US links... ------------- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. ~Albert Einstein |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: August 25 2021 at 1:37am
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DJ,I think you are quite correct,travel in the 21st century is the thing driving the variants....,as you say in 1521 things would have been quite different,Doc,had similar conversation with my daughter ,when the 1st corona virus hit the human race,it would have been bad. People forget this is a " Novel" virus,which seems to have the legs to turn into something much worse..... Take care all π·ππ ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.π Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: CRS, DrPH
Date Posted: August 25 2021 at 2:02pm
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Hi DJ! I was always told that Grandpa Lindelsee was Dutch! Who knows? My genome is comprised of Dutch (maybe), German, Irish, Slovak components! Typical American mongrel. ------------- CRS, DrPH |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: August 25 2021 at 3:48pm
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I'm a mongrel with all of above and more, and even a little Neaderthal/Desanovian thrown in , the human race is a Great big melting pot..........lol ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.π Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: August 25 2021 at 9:55pm
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CRS, DrPH...I also did find names like "Wobke Lindelsee" that kind of names is from [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friesland[/url].......You also have [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Frisian_Peninsula[/url] or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Frisian_Peninsula - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Frisian_Peninsula and [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordfriesland_(district)[/url] or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordfriesland_(district) -even parts of west Danmark are seen as (in history) part of "Friesland"... In the 19th century agricultural revolution meant a lot of jobs were lost in these parts of the country. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_diaspora[/url] or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_diaspora - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_diaspora (Wiki does not (yet) include the Frisian diaspora after the 1890 agriculture crisis and the 1929 global economy crisis). In the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Netherland" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="New Netherland - New Netherland colony, Frisian people from North Frisia, East Frisia and West Friesland were the largest ethnic group in the city of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Amsterdam" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="New Amsterdam - New Amsterdam which later became https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="New York City - New York City . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisian_Americans#cite_note-Paulsen-4" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [3] The New Amsterdam area was chiefly explored by one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonas_Bronck" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="Jonas Bronck - Jonas Bronk who led a group of settlers from North Frisia, and the region was later named https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bronx" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="The Bronx - The Bronx after him. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisian_Americans#cite_note-Paulsen-4" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [3] Bronk (also known as Bronck) himself is said to have been either Danish or Swedish. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisian_Americans#cite_note-5" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisian_Americans#cite_note-Andersson-6" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [5] Many North-Frisian settlers were refugees of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burchardi_flood" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="Burchardi flood - Burchardi flood of 1634 which had destroyed the wealthy island of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strand_(island)" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="Strand (island) - Strand . According to Paulsen, "they introduced their old democratic traditions into the patrician Dutch society of that time." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisian_Americans#cite_note-Paulsen-4" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [3] Because there is no modern united Frisian state, Frisian Americans are often included within https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Americans" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="Dutch Americans - Dutch Americans , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Americans" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="German Americans - German Americans or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_Americans" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="Scandinavian Americans - Scandinavian Americans DJ Can I think of a link with this pandemic ? Often people want to visit family that did not migrate, look for roots...We have an Open Air Museum here [url]https://www.openluchtmuseum.nl/ontdek?taal=en[/url] or https://www.openluchtmuseum.nl/ontdek?taal=en - https://www.openluchtmuseum.nl/ontdek?taal=en in a normal year over 60% of the visitors is not from NL but often with NL roots... ------------- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. ~Albert Einstein |