The barrington declaration
Printed From: Avian Flu Talk
Category: Main Forums
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Description: (General discussion regarding the next pandemic)
URL: http://www.avianflutalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=44185
Printed Date: April 30 2024 at 9:30pm
Topic: The barrington declaration
Posted By: Raddy5
Subject: The barrington declaration
Date Posted: September 11 2021 at 11:59am
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The barrington declaration How come Biden and CDC-continue - to ignore the millions who have HAD the very disease they insisting we vaccinate for is so strange. My son has heart defect, although he is healthy, still has defect, I asked our cardiologist today at annual visit if he should get shot. I explained the symptoms he had when we suspect he had covid in dec and my concerns and asked if he should get he shot. I expected the answer I am getting everywhere else, and wildly to my surprise, with a big sigh, he said no. He said he is supposed to just tell us to get the vaccine and that he could lose his license for saying anything else but we are his patient and can’t go against his conscience. Also mentioned how first time in history the guidance is opting for an experimental vaccine over natural immunity. I felt truly sorry for the doctor who felt compelled to risk himself, carrying heavy burden. But was such a relief and sign of hope for me to hear what my gut has been telling me from his trusted medical professional experience. I am sad for the number of people who will lose their jobs because they are standing up for their beliefs. I thank goodness for the vaccine for anyone who was at risk or elderly or wanted it but it should not be forced down anyone who doesn’t want it, whatever their profession. |
Replies:
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: September 11 2021 at 12:23pm
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The first successful demonstration of a polio vaccine was by https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilary_Koprowski" style='margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-weight: 400; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Lato, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; vertical-align: baseline; background: none rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(51, 102, 204); text-decoration: none; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;' title="Hilary Koprowski - Hilary Koprowski in 1950, with a live attenuated virus which people drank. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polio_vaccine#cite_note-Kowproski_obit-9" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background: none; color: rgb(51, 102, 204); text-decoration: none; - [9] The vaccine was not approved for use in the United States, but was used successfully elsewhere. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polio_vaccine#cite_note-Kowproski_obit-9" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background: none; color: rgb(51, 102, 204); text-decoration: none; - [9] The success of an inactivated (killed) polio vaccine, developed by https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonas_Salk" style='margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-weight: 400; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Lato, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; vertical-align: baseline; background: none rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(51, 102, 204); text-decoration: none; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;' title="Jonas Salk - Jonas Salk , was https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Announcement_of_Polio_vaccine_success" style='margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-weight: 400; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Lato, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; vertical-align: baseline; background: none rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(51, 102, 204); text-decoration: none; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;' title="Announcement of Polio vaccine success - announced in 1955 . https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polio_vaccine#cite_note-WHO2016-2" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background: none; color: rgb(51, 102, 204); text-decoration: none; - [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polio_vaccine#cite_note-10" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background: none; color: rgb(51, 102, 204); text-decoration: none; - [10] Another attenuated live oral polio vaccine was developed by https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Sabin" style='margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-weight: 400; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Lato, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; vertical-align: baseline; background: none rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(51, 102, 204); text-decoration: none; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;' title="Albert Sabin - Albert Sabin and came into commercial use in 1961. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polio_vaccine#cite_note-WHO2016-2" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background: none; color: rgb(51, 102, 204); text-decoration: none; - [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polio_vaccine#cite_note-11" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background: none; color: rgb(51, 102, 204); text-decoration: none; - [11] ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖 Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: KiwiMum
Date Posted: September 11 2021 at 12:34pm
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What point are you trying to make Carbon? You seem to have completely ignored Raddy's post. ------------- Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts. |
carbon20 wrote:Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: September 11 2021 at 12:38pm
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Make of it what you will...... Take care all 😷😉💉 ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖 Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: KiwiMum
Date Posted: September 11 2021 at 12:47pm
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I couldn't agree with you more Raddy5. Thank you for posting that. The data out of Israel - one of the most vaccinated countries on earth - a country that was being held high as a poster boy for the vaccines, and a country that has shown excellent scientific reporting of the effects of both Covid and the vaccines. They appear to be one of the very few countries on Earth that is reporting honestly and without an apparent agenda. While their reports were supporting the use of a vaccine for all, they were being widely quoted in mainstream media and by other governments around the world, but this latest report which confirms what some of their earlier findings were suggesting, is now being conveniently ignored by those (and I include people on here) who will only accept the narrative of universal vaccines for all. Israel is showing, through good scientific reporting that natural immunity is the better option. Personally I think the vaccines are great for the weak and the elderly and for anyone else who is extremely vulnerable, but not for children or younger adults or people who are slim, fit and have no underlying health issues. But you try even suggesting that on here and you are accused of being an anti vaxxer. It's ridiculous. I can't see any benefit to society in forcing everyone to have the shot, other than to the economy. More shots equal more jobs for hcw, more profits and therefore more taxes to be paid by the bigpharma companies, and by controlling a population through mandated mask wearing, social distancing, it creates jobs. The added benefit is that it also incrementally removes personal liberties and makes a population more compliant. I will repeat yet again, for the plain stupid and the hard of hearing, it has been proven that the vaccines do not prevent you from catching Covid, they do not lower your viral load once you have Covid, and they do not stop you from giving Covid to other people. What they do do is to dramatically reduce your chances of death from Covid or a very severe illness which in turn, helps to ease the load on the health care system. So the vaccines, in my opinion, are a great idea for the elderly or sick, but for children or healthy people who are most likely to have a very mild illness, then why administer a medical treatment that they don't need? Why not let them get it and develop a stronger immune system? Every time I say this people start saying that more children are getting sick and dying. Well yes, I'm sure they are. Have you seen how many fat and unfit children there are out there? Obesity is known to be a factor in severe cases. Trying to discuss any other opinion other than the "good citizen's" narrative of everyone must be vaccinated is like bashing your head against a brick wall. ------------- Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts. |
Posted By: Pixie
Date Posted: September 11 2021 at 4:19pm
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https://theconversation.com/5-failings-of-the-great-barrington-declarations-dangerous-plan-for-covid-19-natural-herd-immunity-148975 - The declaration begins with the false premise that governments intend to lock down society, and cherry-picks facts (for example, that COVID-19 infections are mild in healthy people). It states: “Those who are not vulnerable should immediately be allowed to resume life as normal. The most compassionate approach that balances the risks and benefits of reaching herd immunity, is to allow those who are at minimal risk of death to live their lives normally to build up immunity to the virus through natural infection, while better protecting those who are at highest risk.” The 5 flaws 1. It creates a false dichotomy. The declaration rhetoric offers a false choice between a wholesale return to our pre-pandemic lives (which is objectively dangerous) versus a total lockdown (which no one advocates). Across Canada, schools, daycares and businesses are open and we are providing https://doi.org/10.1177%2F0840470420939854 - - it’s not a binary choice between the Barrington perspective and full lockdown, and that https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/covid-ottawa-etches-open-society-1.5750183 - This is true in Ontario where, after the first COVID-19 peak, the province https://www.ontario.ca/page/reopening-ontario - 2. The Barrington declaration gives oxygen to fringe groups. The signatories did not intend to support such fringe groups, but their rhetoric invalidates public health policy and feeds the https://leger360.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/tracking_covid19_13386-124_EN_week5_VF_Final-1.pdf - When physicians and scientists sign on to the declaration they support the fears of an increasingly anxious public and fuel conspiracy theories. This is even more dangerous in America with a https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2018/03/20/comparing-trump-to-the-greatest-and-the-most-polarizing-presidents-in-u-s-history/ - - Oath Keepers and https://theconversation.com/qanon-conspiracy-theories-about-the-coronavirus-pandemic-are-a-public-health-threat-135515 - 3. The Barrington declaration puts individual preference far above public good. The declaration advocates that, “individual people, based upon their own perception of their risk of dying from COVID-19 and other personal circumstances, personally choose the risks, activities and restrictions they prefer.” If these views were applied to traffic safety, chaos would ensue as we each chose our own speed limit and which side of the road to drive on. Public health matters, and the approach of the declaration to https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-responses-highlight-how-humans-are-hardwired-to-dismiss-facts-that-dont-fit-their-worldview-141335 - 4. The declaration misunderstands herd immunity. Herd immunity occurs when a large enough proportion of the population has immunity, usually more than 70 per cent. Viral spread is then slowed because the virus largely encounters immune people. Herd immunity can be safely achieved by vaccines, but in order to “naturally” develop herd immunity, people must first survive the infection. Despite https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/85320e2ea5424dfaaa75ae62e5c06e61 - - less than 10 per cent of Americans have COVID-19 antibodies . Even if true caseloads were 10-fold greater than recognized, 94 per cent of people remain susceptible and, if rapidly infected, would swamp the health-care system and lead to many avoidable deaths. The declaration’s approach amounts to a global https://infectioncontrol.tips/2015/12/18/its-a-pox-party/ - Unfortunately, even some healthy children suffered severe complications and unintended people were often infected. At least with chickenpox there was no risk of epidemic spread because society had herd immunity (which we lack for COVID-19). 5. The declaration offers no details on how it would protect the vulnerable. In Ontario, more than https://deptmed.queensu.ca/news/reforms-required-make-our-long-term-care-facilities-ltc-safer-are-simple-and-cannot-accidently - The experts have spoken: Experts view the Barrington declaration as https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-barrington-declaration-an-open-letter-arguing-against-lockdown-policies-and-for-focused-protection/ - - calling it dangerous . The declaration is also rebutted by the 6,400 vetted signatories of the https://www.johnsnowmemo.com/ - - pioneer of epidemiology . The Snow memorandum cites clear evidence that the virus is highly contagious, several times more lethal than influenza and can have lasting consequences, even in healthy people. It affirms that COVID-19 can be constrained by good public health measures, and warns that herd immunity may be hard to achieve. It concludes: “… controlling community spread of COVID-19 is the best way to protect our societies and economies until safe and effective vaccines and therapeutics arrive within the coming months.” The Infectious Diseases Society of America’s 12,000 front-line infectious diseases scientists, physicians and public health experts https://www.idsociety.org/news--publications-new/articles/2020/herd-immunity-is-not-an-answer-to-a-pandemic/ - The Great Barrington Declaration, https://www.businessinsider.in/science/news/the-white-house-backed-great-barrington-declaration-calling-for-herd-immunity-wouldnt-just-fail-it-could-lead-to-640000-deaths/articleshow/78684982.cms - |
Posted By: Pixie
Date Posted: September 11 2021 at 4:42pm
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Martin Kulldorff is a crackpot…. Who Are the Scientists Behind the Great Barrington Declaration? https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/89204 - https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/89204 - https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/89204 Martin Kulldorff, PhD Kulldorff is a professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School and Brigham & Women's Hospital who develops epidemiological and statistical models to detect infectious disease outbreaks. The epidemiologist has repeatedly said that restrictions for young and healthy people are unwarranted, as the risk of COVID-19 mortality is a thousand times higher for the elderly than it is for youth. "While this is a very dangerous disease for the elderly, for children it's much less dangerous than the annual flu," Kulldorff https://www.contagionlive.com/view/evaluating-age-based-coronavirus-strategies-martin-kulldorff - said in an August interview with Contagion Live . "And for people in their 20s and 30s, it's not a dangerous disease at all." Kulldorff has criticized public health measures, including widespread testing of asymptomatic patients. In a https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-case-against-covid-tests-for-the-young-and-healthy-11599151722 - Wall Street Journal commentary (which he co-wrote with Bhattacharya), Kulldorff stated that "there is little purpose in using tests to check asymptomatic children to see if it is safe for them to come to school," as more positive tests would only encourage more school closures and deprive children of their education. His commentary was written after CDC guidelines stated https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/88276 - some asymptomatic patients may not need to be tested -- but those recommendations were later reversed. "Testing is intended to save lives, not to detect asymptomatic people who are otherwise healthy," Kulldorff and Bhattacharya wrote. "With the new CDC guidelines, strategic age-targeted viral testing will protect older people from deadly COVID-19 exposure and children and young adults from needless school closures." Kulldorff also https://www.stanforddaily.com/2020/09/16/letter-to-the-editor-scott-atlas-and-lockdowns/ - sought to refute 98 Stanford scientists who criticized Atlas's recommendations to allow young people to resume normal activities, stating that their letter "ignores collateral damage caused by lockdowns." |
Posted By: Pixie
Date Posted: September 11 2021 at 5:35pm
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Really worked out great for Florida….. Great Barrington numb nuts https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-desantis-covid-scientists-20210318-5wpcx3kjyvauvnanntmhxqkcmq-story.html - https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-desantis-covid-scientists-20210318-5wpcx3kjyvauvnanntmhxqkcmq-story.html Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis assembled a group of scientists who backed his COVID policies at a Thursday roundtable, where they assured him he was taking the right steps on the disease. The group included Dr. Scott Atlas, the Stanford radiologist whose skepticism on the value of masks and optimistic forecasts on the pandemic won him a job as COVID adviser to President Trump The group also included Sunetra Gupta of Oxford University and Martin Kulldorff, professor of medicine and a specialist in cancer data science at Harvard University. They are among the authors of the Great Barrington Declaration, a statement that calls for society to remain largely open through the pandemic, with special measures taken only to protect the most vulnerable. |
Posted By: Raddy5
Date Posted: September 12 2021 at 7:25am
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I don’t interpret barrington saying anything but let’s be willing to makes adjustments. Recognize that since Jan of 2020, 21 months ago, millions have had the disease. Count infected in with the vaccinated. The vaccine is not the save all end all answer. The narrative needs to change! Anyone ever seen movie Idiocracy? Bad movie, but some laughs. Sometimes I relate this vaccine push to how in the movie they couldn’t figure out why crops weren’t growing anymore, they stopped using water and only used Gatorade because Gatorade was sponsor for everything and had more electrolytes than water. |
Posted By: KiwiMum
Date Posted: September 12 2021 at 1:32pm
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The thing that concerns me about the "vaccines" is that they have no long term safety data. None. It doesn't matter how many people have had them, the point about safety protocols in vaccine development is to assess the short and the long term effects of having the shot. The short term data is still coming in but there is no data whatsoever about the long term effects of these shots on humans. Now this doesn't really matter to elderly people. My 90 year old father, for example. It doesn't really matter if the long term effects include neuro degenerative disease 15 years after the jab, because he's unlikely to be around then anyway, but for a 10 year old boy, the potential long term effects could be disastrous. ------------- Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts. |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: September 12 2021 at 2:36pm
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Do we know the long term effects of having Covid........ I had shingles not long ago.......... Had chicken pox when I was 11ys...!!!!!!!!!! https://academic.oup.com/brain/article/127/11/2491/342665 - https://academic.oup.com/brain/article/127/11/2491/342665 Not proven but I'd rather have a vaccine........ ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖 Marcus Aurelius |