General Discussion - measles and "immune amnesia"

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measles and "immune amnesia"

Printed From: Avian Flu Talk
Category: Main Forums
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Description: (General discussion regarding the next pandemic)
URL: http://www.avianflutalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=44341
Printed Date: April 18 2024 at 5:52pm

Topic: measles and "immune amnesia"

Posted By: EdwinSm,
Subject: measles and "immune amnesia"
Date Posted: November 16 2021 at 11:54pm

Another reason to get children vaccinated.

"immune amnesia", a mysterious phenomenon that's been with us for millennia, though it was only https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1002885 - discovered in 2012 . Essentially, when you're infected with measles, your immune system abruptly forgets every pathogen it's ever encountered before – every cold, every bout of flu, every exposure to bacteria or viruses in the environment, every vaccination. The loss is near-total and permanent. Once the measles infection is over, current evidence suggests that your body has to re-learn what's good and what's bad almost from scratch.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20211112-the-people-with-immune-amnesia - https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20211112-the-people-with-immune-amnesia

Replies:

Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: November 17 2021 at 1:26am

[url]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34129794/[/url] or https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34129794/ - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34129794/ ...good find-bad news...;

Abstract

It has been recently discovered that the measles virus can damage pre-existing immunological memory, destroying B lymphocytes and reducing the diversity of non-specific B cells of the infected host. In particular, this implies that previously acquired immunization from vaccination or direct exposition to other pathogens could be partially erased in a phenomenon named 'immune amnesia', whose effects can become particularly worrisome given the actual rise of anti-vaccination movements.

Here, we present the first attempt to incorporate immune amnesia into standard models of epidemic spreading by proposing a simple model for the spreading of two concurrent pathogens causing measles and another generic disease.

Different analyses confirm that immune amnesia can have important consequences for epidemic spreading, significantly altering the vaccination coverage required to reach herd immunity.

We also uncover the existence of novel propagating and endemic phases induced by immune amnesia.

Finally, we discuss the meaning and consequences of our results and their relation with, e.g. immunization strategies, together with the possibility that explosive types of transitions may emerge, making immune-amnesia effects particularly dramatic.

This work opens the door to further developments and analyses of immune-amnesia effects, contributing also to the theory of interacting epidemics on complex networks.

DJ If some variants of CoViD could bring forms of immune amnesia we get into even more problems....

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles[/url] or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles ;

Pathophysiology

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MeaslesOsmosisPic5.jpg" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;">

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MeaslesOsmosisPic5.jpg" title="Enlarge" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: url("/w/resources/src/mediawiki.skinning/images/magnify-clip-ltr.svg?8330e"); display: block; text-indent: 15px; white-space: nowrap; overflow: hidden; width: 15px; height: 11px; user-select: none; -

Drawing of the measles virus attaching to the lining of the trachea

As the virus is a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative-sense_single-stranded_RNA_virus" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="Negative-sense single-stranded RNA virus - single-stranded negative-sense RNA virus , it includes the enzyme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA-dependent_RNA_polymerase" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="RNA-dependent RNA polymerase - RNA-dependent RNA polymerase (RdRp) which is used to transcribe its genome into a positive-sense mRNA strand.^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles#cite_note-Lancet2012-56" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [56]}

DJ Can measles and CoViD mix ?????

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We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein

Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: November 17 2021 at 1:26am

Thanks Edwin,that is really interesting .......

Scary but interesting....

Take care all 😷😉💉

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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius

Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: November 17 2021 at 6:33am

One of the problems with medical statistics is that you can't get an answer to questions you have not asked yet and the need to conduct a survey takes time to be noticed.

As we age our immune systems get weaker and that is why so many more older people get seriously ill from COVID. COVID is a coronavirus, as we all know, and coronaviruses are one of the causes of the common cold. It is possible that our immune memory of these related infections (Who has not had a cold?) offers us a modicum of protection against COVID, which then wanes over time like the protection from the vaccine itself or even post infection with COVID.

For the last couple of decades there has been a great deal of vaccine avoidance of the MMR vaccine, so many more children get measles now.

I can't help but wonder, how many of the serious COVID cases in children, which are unusual, are due to this loss of immune memory. That would tally with the journal extract Josh published here, but could be another nasty effect of the vaccine avoidance misinformation.

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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.

Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: November 17 2021 at 1:11pm

Well thought out techno.....

I'm just amazed at this news,it's so interesting that a virus , measles in this case can do this ......

Makes me so thankful that my Mom had me vaccinated 60 odd yrs ago

It also strengthens my opinion on vaccines

JUST GET VACCINATED.......

TAKE CARE ALL 😷😉💉

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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius

Posted By: Usk
Date Posted: November 18 2021 at 3:57am

https://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/history.html - https://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/history.html

That would be unusual because first vaccine for measles was not available until 1963

Oh by the way if you have grandchildren they recommend getting a booster

Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: November 18 2021 at 1:22pm

I never had measles vaccine as a child,I had German measles,that covers me for life,

What I was vaccinated for was below ,still have mark of injection site ,mom tells me we where the first kids in the street to be vaccinated,our family has always believed in science......well some of them ,others don't.....

They seem to forget how many lives they have saved ,

vaccines did children get in 1957?

http://www.w3.org/2000/svg\ - http://www.w3.org/2000/svg\ " viewBox=\"0 0 24 24\">"); display: inline-block; height: 24px; width: 24px; transform: rotateZ(-180deg);'>

In the early 1950s there were four vaccines routinely used in the United States: diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, and smallpox. Three of these vaccines (diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis) were combined into a single shot (DTP).
...
Tables.

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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius

Posted By: badger2
Date Posted: November 20 2021 at 1:20pm

But measles vaccine is not mRNA vaccine. One caveat is to be suspicious of the thrombotic symptoms breaking through mRNA, such as thrombocytopenia, as if the cells producing the spikes are clogging up the pipes. Then too, five years of age is pushing the envelope.

Cerebral Palsy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy

’....Rubella....Micrograph: fetal (placental) vein thrombosis in a case of fetal thrombotic vasculopathy.

....symptoms and diagnosis typically occur by 2 years of age, though persons with milder forms of CP may be over the age of 5, if not into adulthood when finally diagnosed.’

How can transplacental transmission of coronaviruses be well documented when the source of SARS-CoV-2 is unknown? Homo sapiens immune system doesn’t mature until five years of age, sometimes not until 12 years of age.

Fetal Thrombotic Vasculopathy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_thrombotic_vasculopathy

Gestational Hypertension

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestational_hypertension

‘....Pre-Eclampsia: low platelet count, increased liver enzymes....’

AST as an increased liver enzyme would link to increased potential for breast cancer in the Japan-Brazil P.1 variant mutation at position 17 of the spike protein: N (asparagine). Yes, putting anti-freeze in the mRNA vaccine could be a good idea if the pipes get compromised for circulation.

Gamma Variant Hyperglycosylation / Breast Cancer

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34765306

’....wild type: TRT; alpha: TRT; Beta: TRT; Gamma: NRT....more significant epithelial-to-mesenchymal transition potential.’

How is it possible to have gaps in knowledge about a coronavirus? How is it possible to treat a masked palm civet suffering from scabies with Selamectin, then get amnesia about testing ivermectin in the civet infected with SARS-CoV?

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Badger2

Posted By: badger2
Date Posted: November 20 2021 at 1:22pm

What a funky thread.

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Badger2

Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: November 24 2021 at 8:06am

[It seems I am not the only person thinking that previous coronavirus infection confers some immunity to COVID19.]

Good news: Common cold may protect against COVID-19

A https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03110-4 - new study has suggested that previous common cold infections may help protect against COVID-19. The study, carried out by University College London and published in the journal Nature, tracked more than 750 healthcare staff who were working closely with COVID patients and likely exposed to the virus on a regular basis. A group of 58 of the participants never tested positive for COVID despite repeated exposure to patients who had the virus.

Blood samples were taken from all participants, but the 58 who tested negative throughout were found to have higher levels of immune cells, called T-cells, in their blood than healthcare workers who got COVID. These T-cells are the part of the immune system that act as memory cells, able to recognise specific invaders when they appear in the body. The researchers think these specific T-cells halt SARS-CoV-2 by disabling a cluster of viral proteins called the replication transcription complex, which helps the virus to reproduce. They found that these T-cells were present in blood samples collected before the pandemic.

The SARS-CoV-2 virus belongs to the family of viruses known as coronaviruses, of which there are many. The hypothesis is that these T-cells were most likely generated by previous coronavirus infections that were not the SARS-CoV-2 virus – the most likely being the coronaviruses that cause the common cold.

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2021/11/17/could-this-gene-double-your-risk-of-dying-from-covid-19?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB" rel="noopener noreferrer - Full article

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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.

Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: November 24 2021 at 2:40pm

During the Spanish flu ,50%of people came down with H1N1

25%of thoses died......

Which means 50% of the population had some sort of immunity,which has always been the case in pandemic, some have always survived ,

However, knowing if you are immune or not is the trick......

I have some immunity from covid because I've been vaccinated.....

Not rocket science...

Take care all 😷😉💉

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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius

Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: November 24 2021 at 9:23pm

[url]https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1918-pandemic-h1n1.html[/url] or https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1918-pandemic-h1n1.html - https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1918-pandemic-h1n1.html ; It is estimated that about 500 million people or one-third of the world’s population became infected with this virus. The number of deaths was estimated to be at least 50 million worldwide with about 675,000 occurring in the United States.