Covid is a Powderpuff. 

Are we there yet?

Covid has killed virtually nobody of good health. Only the old and frail. Most of the victims would have died of other causes anyway. 

The overall death statistics show Covid has had very little effect. 

Before you go off. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Covid hasn't had an effect. I'm just saying that the slight rise in death toll isn't of any great concern. It's no Spanish Flu.

I don’t think the families of the 5,237,09 dead would agree with you.

Wow, this is disheartening that this insensitive opinion is still held and makes it seem like the people who have died weren’t worthy of living because they may have had co-morbidities? My heart breaks for the millions of families that have been affected by this illness. We nearly lost my father in law who was on life support for a week. He has been diabetic for 30 years so does that mean if he had passed it wouldn’t be that big of a deal since he was old and sick already? His medical bills came to around a few hundred thousand dollars.

A lot of people have lost loved ones, who are worthy of living even if they aren’t heathy. 

Even if it used to be cogent, but is now functioning on this site basically as an attention whore to get y'all riled up.

ViQueen beat me to the punch.

SherriAnn, I'm sure you've learned by now who the "problem children" are.  Cobber doesn't post often, but you can add him to your list.  

Noted, thanks for the heads up regarding Cobber, I took the bait I suppose. Hard to not let emotions take the reigns when stuff is so serious right now ☹️

Cobber is a troll, he is like a few others here. 

Yet another case of cancel culture. Cobber doesn't share your opinion so he is irrelevant? Grow up. 

The point he's making is a valid one, even the saintly Dr John Campbell stated that many of the people who died from Covid would have died in the next year or so anyway. That's not him being heartless, it's just him stating the obvious. It doesn't mean that these people's lives are worthless or that they won't be missed. Of course they will. Any death is sad and a loss for those who loved them, but it is inevitable and there is only so much that science can do to extend lives. If one thing doesn't kill you, then something else will.

Cobber comes on here spouts the same old crap.....

Very very BORING.....

When you are purposely saying something to get a rise out of people, then yes, it becomes irrelevant.  If he has no concerns about COVID, then no reason to be here.  This is an informational site, not facebook!

Cobber fails big time when he cites the Spanish flu as a benchmark,

What medicines did they have available in 1918 ???

And without medical intervention now what would be the death toll.....

Just comes on to stir everyone up ,

Just as we were getting back to being a good site.....

Take care all 😷😉💉

Cobber, a new profile picture for you: 

Pixie wrote: I don’t think the families of the 5,237,09 dead would agree with you.

0.06% of 7.9 Billion people died from/with covid in nearly 2 years. The big picture.

If you think a single death is acceptable, I am sorry for you AI.  That is really sad.

I'm not a troll. I'm just right. 

You who are indoctrinated, I cant wait till you go away. This site is painful. Before Covid it was really good. There was medical type discussions based on factual information. You all now seem to talk about anecdotal heart bleeding bull$hit. 

Cancel culture.  YES

I have been here much longer than most of you. I now only comment occasionally because its impossible to have a decent conversation. Without tears and insults. 

I'm waiting for people to realize that Covid is no worse than a bad flu season. (Magnitude, Honk Kong Flu)

I'm waiting for people to realize that you can't vaccinate against a corona virus. They mutate too rapidly.

I'm waiting for people to realize that masks do virtually nothing

I'm waiting for people to realize Covid is a powderpuff and its not the slate wiper we were told. 

Sadly I think people will let the authorities slide. No one will be held accountable to alarmist head lines like 16% death toll.

I'll be back in six months Cheers Yall

Cobbler you are not a troll,you are an asshole! If you are so unhappy with this forum don’t let the door hit you on the way out. 

Amen, sister!  And that could go for a few other of those Witchy called our "problem children".  Years ago, I lurked on a prepper site.  I looked forward every Saturday to "what did you do to prep this week?". But the fact is, the majority were right-wingers who used to diss the Democratic US pres, and call people like me "libtards".  I didn't go in there and demand equal time.  I took what was of value to me, and left the rest behind.  When I got sick of the racism, etc., I left, no muss, no fuss.  And no skin off my, or anyone else's ass.

As for cancel culture, I am sick of hearing about that on this site.  Cancel culture is when a celebrity or rich person says or does something that disagrees with the society around them, its values structure, etc., and then are so widely disavowed that it damages their brand and they can no longer make a living at whatever made them a household name.  An example right now would be Alec Baldwin.  He is making claims about what went on on that set that sound fishy to gun owners.  It feels to some like he is evading responsibility.  He was asked in an interview that aired earlier this week if he thought his career in Hollywood is over.  He replied it might be.  If it is, he will have experienced cancel culture.  Think Kevin Spacey.  Think Lori Loughlin.

cobber wrote: I'm not a troll. I'm just right.  You who are indoctrinated, I cant wait till you go away. This site is painful. Before Covid it was really good. There was medical type discussions based on factual information. You all now seem to talk about anecdotal heart bleeding bull$hit.  Cancel culture.  YES I have been here much longer than most of you. I now only comment occasionally because its impossible to have a decent conversation. Without tears and insults.  I'm waiting for people to realize that Covid is no worse than a bad flu season. (Magnitude, Honk Kong Flu) I'm waiting for people to realize that you can't vaccinate against a corona virus. They mutate too rapidly. I'm waiting for people to realize that masks do virtually nothing I'm waiting for people to realize Covid is a powderpuff and its not the slate wiper we were told.  Sadly I think people will let the authorities slide. No one will be held accountable to alarmist head lines like 16% death toll. I'll be back in six months Cheers Yall

If only the site could go back to being the excellent discussion forum it used to be. There's a reason why so many  of the intelligent contributing members have stopped visiting and that's really sad. 

I heard a surgeon talking about masks on TV the other day and he said that that every single doctor knows that masks do not protect you from viral particles that are airbourne. He said you learn that early on in medical school. I guess that masks today do serve a purpose in that they constantly remind everyone that we live in a world of panic and paranoia.

Most of your posts stating “facts” usually have no link, would give credibility …..

https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/mayo-clinic-minute-study-shows-masks-can-prevent-covid-19/ -
Mayo Clinic researchers recently published a  https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0025619621004018?dgcid=author" rel="noreferrer noopener" style="font-size: 16px; box-sizing: inherit; max-height: 1000000px; color: rgb(0, 61, 165); font-family: HelveticaNeueLTStd-Roman, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%; - study  that shows the proper use of masks reduces the spread of respiratory droplets. The findings strongly support the protective value and effectiveness of widespread mask use and maintaining physical distance in reducing the spread of COVID-19.

It's not that Pixie. I'm talking about the aggressiveness that's appeared on here. The lack of discussion indicates that the line in the sand has been drawn, been entrenched and god help you if you try to cross it. It's just become very nasty and unfriendly. It never used to be like that. The comments are limited now to strong overreactions. If a comment is made that is not controversial, no one comments on it. The people who are determined pro vaxxers at all costs and despite any evidence to contrary have become so overly sensitive that they are looking for a reason, any reason no matter how small, to yell "anti vaxxer" and that's not constructive or helpful. In fact it's destructive and it blocks conversation, discussion and knowledge. 

You have been hammering your views for months,we know where you stand,it’s like you are on a mission to change hearts and minds,I think everybody is fairly settled in their beliefs at this point. It’s like trying to turn a cooking forum into an auto repair forum,not happening.

Pixie wrote: You have been hammering your views for months,we know where you stand,it’s like you are on a mission to change hearts and minds,I think everybody is fairly settled in their beliefs at this point. It’s like trying to turn a cooking forum into an auto repair forum,not happening.

So Pixie, you've  ignored the point I just made about aggressive. Why? Because it's true and touches a nerve? And btw, you've been hammering home your view for months too. At least I'm open minded about my view of Covid. I'm perfectly ready to change my mind as and when the science becomes available. 

But what do you think about the post I made that you ignored? About the aggressiveness?

Isn't that what a discussion forum is about looking at all the different information and points of view and then adjusting those views as new information comes out and as it changes. Has no one not learned as a result of covid, the various world governments and the media that what is presented as true and fact today may not be true or factual next month. The information  and science relating to covid and the vaxx are in a state of evolution just like the virus. To say otherwise is to live in a denial of reality. 

I post on many subjects that others may find interesting,and I let it sit for comments,yes at times I follow up on to add,clarify or to dismiss as inaccurate, I don’t drive my view,I just post news.Some here can attest that I very seldom offer up any personal view  or chit chat on any post, 

• The " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_Flu" title="Asian Flu - Asian Flu ", 1957–58. An H2N2 virus was first identified in China in late February 1957. It caused about two million deaths globally. ^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemic#cite_note-131 - [130]}
• The " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_Flu" title="Hong Kong Flu - Hong Kong Flu ", 1968–69. An H3N2 virus was first detected in Hong Kong in early 1968 and spread across the world, lasting until 1972. This pandemic killed approximately one million people worldwide. ^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemic#cite_note-132 - [131]}

^{From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemic#Influenza - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemic#Influenz}

With the world wide "Official" total well over 5 million (and a low guesstimate of 20-25 million for actual figures) Covid is much worse than the flu pandemics of our memory.

When one compares the statistics for Covid in USA against the Spanish Flu, then depending on the metric used one could argue both better or worse.  

      The current death count for Covid of just over 800,000 is worse than the estimated 650,000 deaths from the Spanish Flu.

      The current mortality rate for Covid is 2,423 deaths / million  is lower that the 6,310 for Spanish Flu (est population 103 million in 1918).

I agree with Pixie.  Kiwi, you have hard core been hammering your beliefs as if you are trying to change peoples mind.  Enough already please.  In my opinion you are completely limited in your beliefs and we all know how you feel.  

OH and i don't care that it is different from me at all.  I care that you won't shut up about it.  

roni3470 wrote: OH and i don't care that it is different from me at all.  I care that you won't shut up about it.

So you'd like only opinions and information that mirrors and reinforces your own beliefs to be presented. That's a rather interesting position for a discussion forum. Talk about limited beliefs LOL

A-I wrote: roni3470 wrote: OH and i don't care that it is different from me at all.  I care that you won't shut up about it.   So you'd like only opinions and information that mirrors and reinforces your own beliefs to be presented. That's a rather interesting position for a discussion forum. Talk about limited beliefs LOL

I guess it's all about finding your tribe, and on here Covid has created a tight little tribe of people who are suddenly "connected" with a shared narrative that a) they know best b) anyone who disagrees with them is wrong and c) the vaccines will protect them and they are determined to believe this even in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary. 

They look for opportunites to find and take offense and they focus on the semantics of anything written rather than face up to the evolving situation. This pandemic has given many lonely and isolated people an opportunity to band together and feel useful and connected for the first time in a long time.

Vaccines have saved millions of lives for many many many years ......and will still do so for many many many more and millions of people will still be taking them long after you and the anti Vax brigade have died.....

Can we please move on, you lost this argument long long ago......why because NOONE IS LISTING TO YOU , MILLIONS OF PEOPLE HAVE TAKEN THE VACCINE.......

MILLIONS AND MILLIONS.......

so it's not a small crowd on here ,you are the ,small crowd,

You are the isolated small person ,who has found somewhere to shout her mouth off .....

Take care all 😷😉💉

carbon20 wrote: Vaccines have saved millions of lives for many many many years ......and will still do so for many many many more and millions of people will still be taking them long after you and the anti Vax brigade have died..... Can we please move on, you lost this argument long long ago......why because NOONE IS LISTING TO YOU , MILLIONS OF PEOPLE HAVE TAKEN THE VACCINE....... MILLIONS AND MILLIONS....... so it's not a small crowd on here ,you are the ,small crowd, You are the isolated small person ,who has found somewhere to shout her mouth off .....   Take care all 😷😉💉

 VAERS is data is extremely underreported. Yep just a coincidence all those adverse reactions and deaths. Wonder why for the last 30 years there wasn't the same level of coincidences LOL.

You can have my vaxx. You do know where to stick it right?

The Beta version never works out. 

I hope we can all get along. I suspect that everything has something to offer. One person may not be the most educated on medical topics but still has heartfelt opinions. Another may know a lot but lack tact. The combinations are endless.  I’m ignorant of plenty yet not ignorant in other areas. By listening to everyone I know I can become less ignorant.

If we were to consider who is most likely to get sick and who is least likely to get sick we could have targeted our response better, saved money, saved more lives, and hopefully had a more productive discussion with less government overreach.

I’m not sure why it matters how long we’ve been members here. I first joined in 2006.

There is only science.  

https://www.wbur.org/news/2021/04/29/covid-autopsy-study - https://www.wbur.org/news/2021/04/29/covid-autopsy-study

CRS, DrPH wrote: There is only science.   https://www.wbur.org/news/2021/04/29/covid-autopsy-study - https://www.wbur.org/news/2021/04/29/covid-autopsy-study

And if science can't get the job done there's always  the  gulags right doc ?

By the way, the god known as "science" is a fraud. Science has shown itself to be faulty. Science can be bought and paid for. Data belongs to the highest bidder, and results can be paid for. Science as we knew it is dead.

You can have my vax as well and stick it wherever you like in your body. Perhaps when you have time you can tell all this to the relatives of the UK's most high profile Vax death.

Lisa Shaw a BBC radio presenter in the north region of England. Aged 44 with as we now now know no underlying conditions: fit and healthy not overweight and unlikely to have been severely affected by the virus..Strongly pro vax she encouraged people to go and get it in her broadcasts  When it came to her turn as a 40 something year old she lined up to have her jab.

A week later she was dead. Her relatives say the vax killed her, the BBC goes into panic mode and says she died after a short illness.....

A month or two later the local Coroner with access to all the data and her medical records ruled that her death was the result of complication following the vax: so yes the vax killed her.

But you really do not care about her do you? She to you is just collateral damage.

Nor do you care about the other 1164 AZ deaths, the 666 Pfizer deaths, the 23 Moderna deaths all occurring shortly after vax. No doubt HMG will claim they were all simply co-incidental to try and avoid paying out any compo. This is for England.  In Scotland freedom of info request have managed to extract how many have died within 28 days of the vax - you know in line with the dying within 28 days of the virus positive test.  This figure for scotland is 5500.  you can see why England refuses to release their figure, it should be around 62000 based on the population ratios of Scotland to England.

cn65 do you have links ? 

I do NOT deny vaccines can kill. There are lots of studies indicating people die after vaccinations...[url]https://www.lareb.nl/en/news/preparation-started-to-monitor-the-safety-and-efficacy-covid-19-vaccines[/url] or https://www.lareb.nl/en/news/preparation-started-to-monitor-the-safety-and-efficacy-covid-19-vaccines - https://www.lareb.nl/en/news/preparation-started-to-monitor-the-safety-and-efficacy-covid-19-vaccines is one of the projects to monitor vaccine safety....

[url]https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/is-the-covid19-vaccine-safe[/url] or https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/is-the-covid19-vaccine-safe - https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/is-the-covid19-vaccine-safe ;

As part of their normal activities, the CDC and FDA monitor possible safety issues with the COVID-19 vaccines. These agencies are thorough and transparent about  https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-vaccine-side-effects" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 109, 199); transition: color 0.4s ease-out 0s; - COVID-19 vaccine side effects . While millions in the U.S. have been vaccinated with only mild side effects, some rare issues have been reported and reviewed.

• In April 2021, the CDC and FDA temporarily paused administration of the Johnson & Johnson (J&J) vaccine so they could review data on a small number of cases of serious blood clots following shots with that vaccine. Most of these incidents occurred in women under age 50. After this review, the FDA and CDC determined that the benefits of the J&J vaccine outweigh the risk of this very rare side effect, and resumed authorization of vaccination with the J&J shot.  https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-vaccine-side-effects#blood-clot" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 109, 199); transition: color 0.4s ease-out 0s;" target="_self - Read more about side effects related to a rare blood clot .
• After observing rare occurrences of myocarditis following the second injection of the Pfizer and Moderna COVID-19 vaccines, the CDC released  https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/myocarditis.html" rel="noopener noreferrer" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 109, 199); transition: color 0.4s ease-out 0s; - information for the public . Most of these myocarditis events happened in teens and young adults, and the majority of the cases were mild and cleared up on their own.  https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-vaccine-side-effects#myocarditis" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 109, 199); transition: color 0.4s ease-out 0s;" target="_self - Read more about side effects related to myocarditis . 

This review process continues to monitor vaccine safety. Potential risks of COVID-19 vaccines are reviewed and weighed against the benefits of protection that the vaccines offer as well as the known, serious risk of harm due to COVID-19.

DJ Also Flutrackers has info on [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_Adverse_Event_Reporting_System[/url] or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_Adverse_Event_Reporting_System - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_Adverse_Event_Reporting_System  

[url]https://vaers.hhs.gov/[/url] or https://vaers.hhs.gov/ - https://vaers.hhs.gov/  

I would welcome more good info on complications on vaccinations...I do not think the info we do get is very good...Media in general simply doing a bad job ! 

Some anti-vax groups came up with claims of people getting vaccinated then dropping death...Given the very high number of vaccinations it may have happened in very limited numbers and most likely had not much to do with the vaccine...

Other claim vaccines are "100% safe"...I do not think they are...By now we did see billions of vaccines being used around the globe...aspiration is another aspect of the discussion...

I think vaccines need to do much better [url]https://twitter.com/chrischirp[/url] or https://twitter.com/chrischirp - https://twitter.com/chrischirp ; I see this sort of framing a lot - that as long as numbers are lower than last Jan, we're somehow doing ok. Whereas, with what know about controlling covid plus high Vax levels,the fact we're even thinking of those levels should be considered an abject failure.

DJ Did the vaccine strategy completely fail ?

Wow. Thank you for that.  My cousin had a heart attack a week after the phifzer vac. NO Underlining health issues. Works a 5000 acre farm  so 60 and never been sick a day in his lifetime   I wonder if there is a connection 

He survived btw

Help yourself to  my doses also. You are welcome to all of the shots that i will never take.

Here in new zealand, we just hit 50 covid related deaths.

More people here have died from slipping on a banana  peel during the last 2 years.

There have, however  been over 40 thousand injuries related to this so called "vaccine".

nzdad wrote: Help yourself to  my doses also. You are welcome to all of the shots that i will never take. Here in new zealand, we just hit 50 covid related deaths. More people here have died from slipping on a banana  peel during the last 2 years. There have, however  been over 40 thousand injuries related to this so called "vaccine".

There must be thousands of vaccine related injuries that are never reported. What worries me is that I personally know people who have been injured by it, and one of them has been seriously disabled by it, has lost her job, her driving licence, her company car and is probably going to lose her house because she can no longer pay the mortgage. 53 years old, extremely fit and now has lost the use of one arm and one leg, and has constant pain in her shoulder, neck and jaw. I also have a relative who has been on steroids ever since his vaccine because of extreme pain and swelling in his neck and jaw and the side of his face. Neither of these were accepted as vaccine injuries by their doctors despite one happening 2 days after the vax and the other 4 days. And that's just people I actually know. It's not second hand info, I've got this from the horse's mouth. And both were very pro vaccine and couldn't wait to get their shots.

My brother works with two highly skilled aircraft engineers who have been injured. Both have lost feeling down one side of their  bodies.  Both men are too scared to report the  injuries. 

We also know four  others who have suffered injuries  to variable  degrees.

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillain%E2%80%93Barr%C3%A9_syndrome#Vaccine_onset[/url] or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillain%E2%80%93Barr%C3%A9_syndrome#Vaccine_onset - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillain%E2%80%93Barr%C3%A9_syndrome#Vaccine_onset ; 

GBS has been reported as a very rare side effect of the  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janssen_Pharmaceuticals" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="Janssen Pharmaceuticals - Janssen and the  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford%E2%80%93AstraZeneca_COVID-19_vaccine" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="Oxford–AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine - Oxford–AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine for  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="COVID-19 - COVID-19 . ^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillain%E2%80%93Barr%C3%A9_syndrome#cite_note-EMAEU-25" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [25]} The incidence of GBS following the vaccination with the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine is reportedly lower than the incidence of GBS following a COVID-19 infection. ^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillain%E2%80%93Barr%C3%A9_syndrome#cite_note-26" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [26]}

DJ One problem is with GBS it may take weeks before symptoms (as a result of the immune system reacting the wrong way after vaccination) show up. 

Another problem is symptoms may not be recognized as GBS/vaccine related...or even ignored due to "vaccine religion " tunnelvision...If it is not recognized and reported it stays out of the official safety data....

As a non-expert I wonder if you can get "GBS light" ? May CFS-ME, fybromyalgia etc. be related to vaccine/immunity problems....not recognized ?

DJ-I think it may be wise to maybe double the risk-factor in calculations on vaccine safety...(at least) 50% of the risks may not be identified as vaccine related...Better follow up, monitoring long term of patients to get mega data on how health developes over time could give better prevention...

But as long as "planes have to keep flying", "parties go on" public health will remain ignored...