Here is some evidence that supports the difficulty in diagnosing H5N1 AI / fowl plague:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&a mp;db=pubmed

Differential Molybdenum Medium  13951053

Yersinia pseudotuberculosis As One Original Plague 16182593

Y. pseudotuberculosis / Thrush  12902256

Phyrefly,

Are you saying that H5N1 is really a bacterial infection, something you call "fowl plague"?

H5N1 is a virus, Yersinia pseudotuberculosis is a baccili.  Symptom-wise, both can be called fowl plague and mistaken for each other, until tests confirm. Between two speculators, because of technology, one will get the correct answer, the other may not.

phyrefly, your posts are beyond my comprehension.  I am still not clear as to your belief.  Understanding one is viral and one is bacterial...what do you believe is attacking the chickens/ducks and now people?

I took from your post that you believe that it's really some sort of bacterial organism or something tick bourne.

I'm sorry, but I truly don't understand most of what you post.  I would LOVE to.  It appears to me that you have done a lot of research and investigation, I just wish I could grasp what you are trying to tell us.

H5N1 is a virus, sometimes incorrectly diagnosed in the host. Thus, it takes time to confirm it as such. The information about this mis-diagnosis was posted at Acarolgy. It was published in the Journal of Wildlife Diseases. Please read the pertinent abstract. Keyword searches: Pica, Korea. The tick connection means that an ectoparasite has ingested the host's blood, such as the magpie-robin in Hong Kong, or plague-vectoring fleas. The report on the H5N1-positive magpie-robin from Hong Kong did not mention any possible ectoparasites, or whether or not it was host to (definition of vector begins to blur here) other pathogens. The ectoparasite, as well as co-infection with other pathogens (bacteria, virus, etc.) can all serve to confound diagnosis. This confounding also serves to drive genetic mutation.

SophiaZoe wrote: phyrefly, your posts are beyond my comprehension.  I'm sorry, but I truly don't understand most of what you post.  I would LOVE to.  It appears to me that you have done a lot of research and investigation, I just wish I could grasp what you are trying to tell us.

Phyrfly's post are very difficult to understand.  And I too would LOVE to know what he is talking about.     

Aunt Bones, Albert, and Others,

Thank you. The problem(s) in understanding this material may be overcome by forming certain questions and making a list of them. A medical dictionary will help. It was months before the keyword search at Acarology was operable. Now that it is, this can also be used.

It should be asked: can everyone read what is being sent to Acarology at Yahoo Groups? Two attempts to send S / AI X.27 tells me the messages were sent, yet an hour later, they are not there. Sans egoism and paranoia, if one has understood what is being said at Acarology, they should realize why the interception of messages is a real possibility. Even though it may take time to explain some things, for me, the info in S / AI X.27 is a bombshell, as stunning as our new Miss America. Nevertheless, while having exercised my freedom (Freedom of Information Act displayed at National Library of Medicine) to read, to think and write,  the reading audience is cheated out of the same right, by proxy.

Like the poor Chinese guy who is so poor, he has to use glow-worms captured and placed in a gauze bag to create an overhead lamp. Or worse, having only caught one glow-worm, having to herd it along the surface of the text, squinting with a sprig of grass to keep it moving in line. :) 

Albert,

My question posed to this list remains unanswered. Therefore, the information both at Acarology now and any in the future, will be placed in three dimensions as pamphleteering. This is negotiation by other means. What this should mean for the readers of Bird Flu Discussion Forum, by most anyone's estimation, is that others will be receiving information, undocumented by the state, that will not have been placed at Acarology, Bird Flu Discussion Forum, nor on the Internet.

Regards,

Phyrefly

Sooooo What are you asking?

Meewee

Well, I guess I gotta start in kindergarten!

Acarology = The study of ticks & mites. (Wikie)

OK, so phyrfly might be telling us one of two things (or two things at once)

1)  The disease H5N1 may have a parasite vector.  Without taking time to recreate the links that I lost in my motherboard implosion.... 

It has been determined that live H5N1 virus has been found on the legs of common flies in Japan (I believe the summer before last IIRC).  Some speculation has been put forth that this may carry virus from bird poop to pig sty or vis-versa.  So, if we accept for the moment that H5N1 has at least one proven insect vector, how large of a stretch is it that ticks or mites carry it, even temporarily, in their mouths, or guts, or both and then infects a host (bird???) with a bite.

Do ticks bite multiple victims???  Not the way I understand them.  Mites....wouldn't they be so minuscule that it would be difficult to transmit enough virus for it to replicate and move along the migration route or infect multiple victims.

2)  Is he saying that the spread of virus is being carried ON their bodies like the fly?

3) Or is he saying both?

I can see #2 but I don't know if I understand enough to accept #1.

Or maybe I'm just on drugs and only THINK I may be gleaning a hint of  what he is trying to tell us.

 Well It's nice to know that I'm not the only only out in left field trying to catch a fly ball in the glare of direct sunlight!  Tell me in straight English not in Latin or some hypothetical super complex language! I'm sorry if you think you are that smart and talk in medical and complex hyper-talk; it seems to me that you are playing games and sneering at those who might not be as "advanced" as  you think you might be.  Speak in simple English so that all might understand is all I'm asking.

Meewee

Phyrefly; Please do not think I am attacking you. I am only adressing the way you are presenting your information. You must present this in a way that even someone with  a high school diploma can understand , if what you are saying is that important! Double talk or what I call Hyper talk ; that is too complex in latin or medical or scientific terms only causes frustration and leads to dicounting of possible valuable information that might be necessary for all of us common people to understand. If it is too complex, we might not even try to read and understand and you might be looked upon wrongly as somone who thinks they are superior to the "common masses". While for the most part I can understand or get the general drift of what you are trying to convey; you cannot post these cryptic posts and expect those who might benefit the most in this terminlogy. I know you did not start out speaking Latin so if you wish to get your point across, please do so in simple terms and analogies! Please?

Meewee

Phyrefly, per your previous post:  How do you 'place information in 3 dimensions'..."as in pamphleteering?"  Why is this "negotiation by another means?"  Why will we be receiving information "undocumented by the state?"  Maybe I'm wrong, but I felt the gist of your post was that you were abandoning this forum for want of some answer you're looking for (?)

I actually think you might be sincerely trying to interact with others by posting on various forums, but lack the ability to communicate in a way people can understand and relate to.  I went back and searched your posts  (you have countless postings, it seems, on multiple websites), and they are all the same-- obscure to the point of being indeciferable at times (sorry).  Are you working under a handicap, perhaps asberger's disorder or autism or the like?  I would like to understand your contributions to the discussion but cannot comprehend them.  Best Wishes - Cupcake

........mmmmmmmmm..........

I can apreciate what phyrefly has suggested as food for thought. here's what i gather from it all that i can understand.

 super flus and other flus past and present have been spread by more than birds. I think fleas spread the plague. I read yesterday a cockroach carries 32 known diseases, etc. Remember awhile back those people in the south west us taht suddenly died from the Hunta Virus? (carried by a mouse.) nasty. anyway............

mites are in your pillows. cockroaches if not in the home are in the woods. (look under tree bark some time.) fleas on pets and mice. pesky flies in the house.

Is that why there is a flu every year? always apearing unstoppable?

 You can try to fight it but you also have to be lucky too.

some of what  phyrefly talks about i think is that you have to link the vectors (possible tranmission carriers/ to infections) to study the spread and its relationship before you can cure. 

Maybe we just vaccinate the ticks? or we're so worried about birds and here comes your dog with a flea carring desiease. So vaccinate fleas so they can't give it to us. Maybe antibacterial fly stips that attract and clean thier little feet when they land somewhere. may sound dumb btu you will always have these pest.

We are all becoming more enlightened. We are all superceeding our learning curve about Flu. Flu has been and is every where. transmitted and spread by every thing.

To stop the spread find the vectors (carriers / transmission points) and cure that.

Hell%$^&*$? I don't know.

What I do feel in my gut is ......Suschian Sheet(SP) if vectored by all these different animals and insects and as deadly to many living things....... it sound like somebodys biological experiment in China got out of the test tube. Germ Warfare experiment gone bad. Not that that hasn't happened before. That's their real reason for Chinas cover up. It had to happen eventually.

Well enought for now... I gotta go take my meds after reading phyrefly's post.

Corn I love it! But Really If what you are saying is that the reality of the flu that the WHO is not focusing on is the transmission factor of fleas, mites and ticks. Why not say that verses Latin or complex medical or scientific terminology? I Can agree with that, it only follows logical thought that these are unlooked at as vectors of conveyence along with migratorial patterns of the hosts...I.E. the birds that carry them. It would also follow logical thouth that those parasites would repesented the greater threat of infection verses the bird itself. But why not type it out that way verses those of us who have an idea or inclination to run for the medical dictionary or the websters to find out what planetary systems this language is coming from verses simple language that everyone can understand? Now is not the time for this, instead everything must be gear and written in the most simplistic terms that even scanning it that all can get the gist at a glance or quick scan. I sure hope I don't alienate all of you because of this. Because I really and truly feel that what phyrefly has to convey is really important for everyone not just those up on their Latin or medical terminology.

 Meewee

MEE too!...I am desperately trying to understand this!!! Somebody help!!

Meewee

1) No s**t, I'm not monkeying around.

2) Theft or toying of information from Pubmed National Library of Medicine is occurring

3) It is not known what the source of this tampering is.

4) National news yesterday on tv and on Yahoo were pushing bedbug epidemic in New York.

5) Now the S / AI X.27 message is available at Acarology to read

6) The transmission of the message S / AI X.27 at Acarology was being tampered with yesterday.It was being witheld by some source out of the control of the sender (me).

7) Bedbugs may have nothing to do with bird flu, yet simultaneously messages that do have to do with bird flu are being tampered with by someone hiding within the network.

What reader here understands 2) or 6)? If any reader here understands 6), prove it to the rest of us by explaining what it means in a message posted to this thread. I'm in direct competition with Miss America right now: her aspirations are to be a teacher.

OK, Phyrfly, you just lost me as a sympathetic student. 

I don't have to PROVE squat to you or any one else walking in a mortal guise.  Anyone choosing the role of teacher must have students to teach.  Otherwise your choice was made in deceit and disingenuousness.  And if you don't want to teach us (help us understand) perhaps your posts would be more suited to a more intelligent audience.

quote:

What reader here understands 2) or 6)? If any reader here understands 6), prove it to the rest of us by explaining what it means in a message posted to this thread. I'm in direct competition with Miss America right now: her aspirations are to be a teacher.

Ok sopiezoe, you have just lost me as someone who considers you amongst those who give a damn. If your cringing desire to be subjective rather than objective is showing through, it may mean that you don't have the courage to write your answer to any of the questions, your argument is a red herring: no you don't have to.

Perhaps the introduction of money would help. In three dimensions ('not on Internet'), go out onto the street and ask a stranger to read what is being posted here (on Internet). Tell them that you will pay them some moneyto do this. Ask them if they can answer these questions:

1) Do you know what S / AI X.27 is?

Answer: -----------

2) Do you know where it is?

Answer: ------------

Please everyone, stop. We are all friends here.

No worries. The bird flu has us all on edge.

It is likely that stress for each of us will increase as the situation worsens, but we are all so lucky that we have such a great group of people here for support! Everyone here is so terrific!

:)

phyrefly talks in code. He could be somebody like deep throat informer from the watergate hearings.

phyrefly
 his name broken down =  phy (physcian)  ref   (reference) ly (?)

Maybe he talks in code in his post . Should we try to hack it? Who is he? an insider trying to speak out undercover?

I will were my reynolds wrap hair piece again tonight and try to discern more. maybe take one of his post and pull a pattern of words for the hidden message.

Who are you phyrefly? How can we help promote what you are discussing better?

I'm still betting on the bio warfare experiment gone wild in China.

Phyrefly posts at a 'Yahoo! Groups' site on acarology.  He always 'numbers' his messages using his own quirky system.   "S / AI X.27"  is the number of his message posted today (see below):  His name is Charles Hubaker, as per his public note on this site.  If you google his name you get lots of posts to other websites, too.

I'm clueless as to what your message "means" phyrefly...

From: charles hubaker <solntsepyati@...> Date: Mon Jan 23, 2006  6:20 am Subject: S / AI X.27

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