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Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic since 2005; Coronavirus COVID-19 Pandemic Discussion Forum.

Race for Vaccine,MERS,from 2013,

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carbon20 View Drop Down
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    Posted: May 17 2020 at 1:23am
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2020 at 1:25am
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2020 at 4:26am

I saw a piece on PBS yesterday that showed the history of vaccines and how fast they could be ready.  Between the R&D, testing and production the timeline was about three years.  Cutting corners to have a vaccine ready in 18 months is worrisome to me.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2020 at 4:53am





Think I'd risk WUFLU 

rather than an untried untested vaccine...

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2020 at 5:00am

Me too.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2020 at 6:31am

Vaccine injury, on the rare occasion it occurs, comes either from additives (most of which we now understand and have removed) or an over-reaction of the vaccinated person's immune system.

The older a person, the less likely the immune system will over-react, the converse for the young.  So generally vaccines are safer in the old - but less likely to produce sufficient protection.

Currently the bug in question is killing the old in huge numbers and the young in tiny ones.  

So for now, I would be happy to trial the vaccine - but don't go near my kids or grandkids until it has done more rounds of testing!  Simple maths, based on risk/risk ratios.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2020 at 6:42am

Technophobe, you are in a different position being in a different country.  Here in the U.S. the concern (with some of us) is an unsafe vaccine will be pushed through cutting testing and safety.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2020 at 6:50am

True.

I don't trust any government - and ours has done a truly crap job if controlling the wu - but I do trust ours's motives, even if not their judgement.  I can't say that for the White House.  So, I get the different stance.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2020 at 7:48am

History is prologue:

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The last time the government sought a ‘warp speed’ vaccine, it was a fiasco

It was 1976, and President Gerald Ford was racing to come up with a vaccine for a new strain of swine flu

President Gerald Ford receives a swine flu inoculation from White House physician William Lukash in 1976. (David Hume Kennerly/Gerald R. Ford Library)
President Gerald Ford receives a swine flu inoculation from White House physician William Lukash in 1976. (David Hume Kennerly/Gerald R. Ford Library) 
By 
Michael S. Rosenwald 
May 1, 2020 at 10:20 a.m. MST

The federal government has launched “Operation Warp Speed” to deliver a covid-19 vaccine by January, months ahead of standard vaccine timelines.

The last time the government tried that, it was a total fiasco.

Gerald Ford was president. It was 1976. Early that year, a mysterious new strain of swine flu turned up at Fort Dix in New Jersey. One Army private died. Many others became severely ill. The nation’s top infectious disease doctors were shaken.

“They were well aware of the ravages of the 1918 flu, and this virus appeared to be closely related,” political scientist Max J. Skidmore wrote in his book “Presidents, Pandemics, and Politics.” “The officials were concerned about a repetition of the tragedy, or the threat of perhaps an even more virulent pandemic.”

History’s deadliest pandemics, from ancient Rome to modern America

Ford raced to come up with a response, consulting with Jonas Salk and Albert Sabin, the scientists behind the polio vaccine, and in late March he announced an audacious plan for the federal government to produce the vaccine and organize its distribution.

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“No one knows exactly how serious this threat could be,” Ford said, with Salk and Sabin by his side, a shocking sight given the two scientists had become enemies over who should get credit for the polio vaccine. “Nevertheless we cannot afford to take a chance with the health of our nation.”

Every American, Ford said, would be vaccinated.

The government had never attempted such an endeavor — both in its breadth and speed.

Almost immediately, there was chaos.

According to Skidmore, a professor at the University of Missouri at Kansas City, insurers were concerned about liability and balked at covering the costs. Manufacturers the government wanted to partner with had similar concerns, prompting Congress to pass a law waiving liability.

One manufacturer produced 2 million doses with the wrong strain. As tests progressed, more scientific problems emerged — even as there were few, if any, signs that a pandemic was materializing. In June, tests showed the vaccine was not effective in children, prompting a public squabble between Salk and Sabin over who should be vaccinated.

Jonas Salk, developer of the polio vaccine, holds a rack of test tubes in his lab in Pittsburgh in 1954. (AP)
Jonas Salk, developer of the polio vaccine, holds a rack of test tubes in his lab in Pittsburgh in 1954. (AP) 

But Ford was undeterred. He directed the vaccination program to proceed, announcing plans to inoculate 1 million people per day by the fall — an unprecedented timeline the government struggled to meet.

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By mid-October, vaccinations were underway. Ford was injected by the White House doctor.

And then more problems emerged. There were reports of sporadic deaths possibly connected to the vaccine. Cases of Guillain-Barre syndrome also emerged, and are still cited today by the anti-vaccine movement. Panic emerged, with dozens of states pausing vaccinations.

The tainted polio vaccine that sickened and fatally paralyzed children in 1955

By December, following 94 reports of paralysis, the entire program was shut down.

Almost immediately, in grand Washington fashion, fingers were pointed. Scientists and government officials turned on each other, with allegations that Ford acted recklessly for political gain without knowing for sure whether a pandemic would emerge — an impossible predictive game, his defenders argued.

The recriminations were fueled by the fact that the swine flu pandemic hadn’t materialized.

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“Had it done so,” Skidmore wrote, “the swine flu vaccination program would immediately have been reinstituted.” The risk-benefit analysis — a relatively small number of cases of Guillain-Barre syndrome vs. widespread death from the flu — would have appeared differently.

Despite the problems, Skidmore and other historians have given the program credit for its swiftness in the face of typical government red tape. The infrastructure that Ford’s team set up was able to quickly identify the side effects. And in the end, Ford had the initial backing of the world’s foremost vaccine experts — Salk and Sabin.

The program “appears clearly to have been based on concern for the public good,” Skidmore wrote, “not to achieve political advantage.”

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2020 at 7:54am

And we don't have the infrastructure to catch a "bad" vaccine.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FluMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2020 at 11:49am

As much as I believe in vaccines I will not be taking this one until we see how many people get something strange or deadly from it.  I did the shot for Swine Flu in 1976 and felt grateful I did not get GB from it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2020 at 12:59pm

Originally posted by FluMom FluMom wrote:

As much as I believe in vaccines I will not be taking this one until we see how many people get something strange or deadly from it.  I did the shot for Swine Flu in 1976 and felt grateful I did not get GB from it.

Well I don't have to worry about ever getting a flu shot or any other vaccine for that matter since I have GB. And even if I didn't have GB I wouldn't be in a hurry to get any vaccine that is rushed through trials to production, that is for sure. Interesting  thing about having GB is after my initial episode and recovery I didn't get the flu or a cold or even so much as a sniffle for 18 years. I'm not sure if it was as a result of the GB or the IVIg or just my regular immune system.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tabitha111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2020 at 3:40pm

Well, I went into the Navy in 1977....so I guess I missed the Swine Flu vaccine, but who knows what vaccines I got...you get in a line and they get you in both arms...next...

'When you feel as though you can't do something, the simple antidote is action: Begin doing it. Start the process, even if it's just a simple step, and don't stop at the beginning.'
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