Click to Translate to English Click to Translate to French  Click to Translate to Spanish  Click to Translate to German  Click to Translate to Italian  Click to Translate to Japanese  Click to Translate to Chinese Simplified  Click to Translate to Korean  Click to Translate to Arabic  Click to Translate to Russian  Click to Translate to Portuguese  Click to Translate to Myanmar (Burmese)

PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
123456
Forum Home Forum Home > Main Forums > General Discussion
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - RANT
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic since 2005; Coronavirus COVID-19 Pandemic Discussion Forum.

RANT

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
Tabitha111 View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group
Avatar

Joined: January 11 2020
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 7780
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tabitha111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: RANT
    Posted: June 25 2020 at 9:47am

We had a topic somewhere on here called Rants...sorry could not find it...but here is one of mine at the moment.


I am just an average citizen out there trying to learn as much as I can and research also as much as I can. I am certainly no scientist...so as an average citizen who may be a bit more educated (on my own with all of your help too) on this virus...why do I read conflicting headlines day after day regarding what Fauci is saying...

If I am confused, imagine others out there that aren't that up to speed on Covid and trying to decide things for themselves...

example - just today - two headlines -
on one hand if I didn't know better I might think - oh Fauci doesn't think its as bad as it was in March and on the other hand...omg...Fauci is worried....bleargh




CNBC 

States with growing coronavirus outbreaks might not need to shut down again like many did in March, White House coronavirus advisor Dr. Anthony ...



Flag as irrelevant 



and from USA Today ~

coronavirus updates: US reports 35K daily cases; New York City Marathon canceled; Fauci warns of 'disturbing surge'


ARGHHHHH!!! and yes, I know read the article, etc etc. but we know most folks just see the headlines...its maddening to me.

'When you feel as though you can't do something, the simple antidote is action: Begin doing it. Start the process, even if it's just a simple step, and don't stop at the beginning.'
Marcus B
Back to Top
EdwinSm, View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group


Joined: April 03 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 15735
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 25 2020 at 10:49am

I am not sure that we can go back to wide-spread lock-downs.  I don't think that the general population would support that.    BUT I do hope that there can be specific lock-downs when there is a flare up in any one area.

Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 41086
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 25 2020 at 3:02pm

Most people are ignorant of health issues until it impacts on them,

I have been laughed at for saying to people that a bird flu virus could kill millions...... Those people aren't laughing now.....

I am still laughed at by people who don't believe that a comet,

killed the dinosaurs,

a very religious  man I know (Muslim)looks at me as if I'm mad when I say to him "if that comet had missed there would be no Human race......

Think about that one......

The lack of belief in science is so SCARY......

Dumb and dumber.......

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
Dutch Josh View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member


Joined: May 01 2013
Location: Arnhem-Netherla
Status: Offline
Points: 43097
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 25 2020 at 8:41pm

[url]https://nltimes.nl/2020/06/25/dutch-governments-coronavirus-policy-losing-support[/url] DJ-We will be in our second wave in NL within a few weeks. You can see it happening-with R0 above 1 and a lot of travel on its way. 

Not only people ignore science, most politicians go for the short term, votes, support-even when it is destroying all on the longer term. 

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
Back to Top
CRS, DrPH View Drop Down
Expert Level Adviser
Expert Level Adviser


Joined: January 20 2014
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 24190
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 25 2020 at 11:04pm

Originally posted by EdwinSm, EdwinSm, wrote:

I am not sure that we can go back to wide-spread lock-downs.  I don't think that the general population would support that.    BUT I do hope that there can be specific lock-downs when there is a flare up in any one area.

On the other hand, wide-spread lockdowns may be necessary.  I've been chatting with an old friend (senior epidemiologist at CDC), and we both agree that the ongoing surges are due to folks getting out into public during Mother's Day (May 10) and Memorial Day (May 25).   Folks just haven't taken this seriously yet.  

I presently live in Arizona, and we are going totally backwards...folks here came out of lockdown, seemed to think all was OK, and started partying en masse. We are now all paying the price. 

Sorry, this is an extremely contagious virus, and the USA is doing a lousy job with managing it, compared to nearly everyone.  I think an economic shutdown and repeated lockdown is inevitable, whether people like it or not.   Lack of hospital ICU beds will be the indicator, and we are nearly there in AZ. 

https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/arizona-doc-hospital-strains-with-staff-shortage-as-beds-fill-up-11476740

CRS, DrPH
Back to Top
EdwinSm, View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group


Joined: April 03 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 15735
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2020 at 12:43am

Dr, I agree with you on the medical necessity, but I am just not sure that there is the political will to do what is medically necessary.  Neither is there the necessary personal will to keep up with social distancing (hence all the parties).  

People seem to be following the "Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die" philosophy, forgetting that corvid19 is one nasty way to die (it is also nasty if one 'recovers' leading to long term complications and therefore a shorter life expectancy).  

I suppose I am feeling a little depressed at how people are giving up on fighting this virus.  Even places hard hit like England (which has a significantly higher death rate than the USA), saw beaches crowded over the last sunny weekend.    I am not sure how to mentally 'get use' to an on-going higher death rate and higher rate of long-term seriously ill people.  The cost to society of opening up too early will be very high.


Back to Top
Tabitha111 View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group
Avatar

Joined: January 11 2020
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 7780
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tabitha111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2020 at 11:06am

The numbers now are just stupid . Almost 25,000 today not even 2:00. Almost 10,000 in Florida. This is a complete failure in governance on the Federal level . This goes to the heart of the President. The science is clear and he has ignored the science. That is in my eyes impeachable. He has not kept Americans safe in our own country.

'When you feel as though you can't do something, the simple antidote is action: Begin doing it. Start the process, even if it's just a simple step, and don't stop at the beginning.'
Marcus B
Back to Top
jacksdad View Drop Down
Executive Admin
Executive Admin
Avatar

Joined: September 08 2007
Location: San Diego
Status: Offline
Points: 46776
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2020 at 11:26am

More lockdowns are inevitable until a vaccine is widely available.

The thing that blows my mind is that none of the pandemic scenarios I’ve ever read took into account a significant number of people refusing to acknowledge the reality of the situation. Nobody ever thought masks or SIP orders would become politicized. We’re screwed unless people wake up and start taking this seriously, and the current administration is doing absolutely nothing to make that happen.





"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 41086
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2020 at 2:48pm






Finding it All very interesting JD,

The classic thing I've heard

"my body, my choice"!!!!!.....

Mmmm try driving at 100 mph in a 30 

zone.....

Your in a Public health Disaster......

Leaderless

 and with no  

Main Mast no 

Rudder.......





Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 41086
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2020 at 3:02pm

I foresee a suddenly sick president that sees him resign on health reasons..........

When the going gets tough the Heel Spurs grow......

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
WitchMisspelled View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group


Joined: January 20 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 10315
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2020 at 5:37pm

There's so much I want to say about what I'm seeing in the news these last two or so days.  I waffle between not being able to work up much sympathy or compassion (except for healthcare workers, first responders and essential workers) and being horrified for a public who's ignorance brought my nation to this.  New York has been the best example of what following the science can do and it doesn't appear other elected leaders are paying attention.  Or that the public in general is paying attention.  Then again, New Yorkers really are a different breed.  When things got tough, we came together as a community and toughed it out.   I'm not saying NY did everything right... or that Cuomo's plan was without some fault, but it worked.  It is still working.  For now, our numbers are still going down.

I've said it once, I'll say it again: I thank my lucky stars every single day I live in NY. That being said, I can see how NYC will not rise above phase 4 opening. I just don't see it happening. Further, I know Governor Cuomo will make the hard decision to ratchet back... perhaps all the way to lock down again if it becomes necessary.

To the rest of the nation that seems to be thinking more about their "liberties":  Just keep swallowing, rinsing and repeating.  See where it got you.  

Back to Top
KiwiMum View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: May 29 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 17220
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2020 at 8:42pm

Maybe the seriousness of this virus will only sink into the masses when they all start seeing friends and family coming down with it and being left with ongoing health issues as a result of it, or dying. I think the idea of "liberties" in the American mind has reached epic proportions and that some people seem to be so outraged that anything might impinge on their liberties that they really have lost their sense of both proportion and reason. 

My sister is a Trump supporter, which I'm  amazed about, but he can do no wrong in her eyes. She can find an excuse for everything stupid he says and does. She's obviously lost her mind.

You can't fix stupid.
Back to Top
CRS, DrPH View Drop Down
Expert Level Adviser
Expert Level Adviser


Joined: January 20 2014
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 24190
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2020 at 10:52pm

Originally posted by EdwinSm, EdwinSm, wrote:

Dr, I agree with you on the medical necessity, but I am just not sure that there is the political will to do what is medically necessary.  Neither is there the necessary personal will to keep up with social distancing (hence all the parties).  

People seem to be following the "Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die" philosophy, forgetting that corvid19 is one nasty way to die (it is also nasty if one 'recovers' leading to long term complications and therefore a shorter life expectancy).  

I suppose I am feeling a little depressed at how people are giving up on fighting this virus.  Even places hard hit like England (which has a significantly higher death rate than the USA), saw beaches crowded over the last sunny weekend.    I am not sure how to mentally 'get use' to an on-going higher death rate and higher rate of long-term seriously ill people.  The cost to society of opening up too early will be very high.

Thank you, this is a very sober and realistic post! 

Reality may yet drive the lockdown.  At the beginning, remember that the massive surge of cases in states like New York led to the lockdown, since ICU beds, PPE, ventilators and other medical necessities were in short supply.  People didn't really wear masks because none were readily available....I personally took to wearing a bandana, bandit-style (still my preferred mask). 

In order to "flatten the curve," we shut down the economy and encouraged isolation.  That did work very well, but as you mention, self-discipline is also needed.  The young adults who are partying and drinking will lose access to bars in Texas, so they will buy kegs, go to state parks etc. and congregate there.  I agree, they seem to have an "eat, drink and be merry" mindset!  They need to have a few more friends die I guess....one 20 year old women in Chicago needed a double lung transplant, her lungs were ruined so badly. 

Once ICU beds are saturated, a new reality will be enforced upon our politicians, and they will be forced to act.  The alternative is what....people dying at home, or in their cars?  Mass burials like in the movie "Contagion?"  (already experienced in NYC).  

A very good friend of mine is a senior infectious disease epidemiology at CDC, and he posted this on Facebook tonight:  

The Vice President says we are in a much better place than we were several months ago. At least 124,891 of us are.

CRS, DrPH
Back to Top
Little House View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member


Joined: February 13 2020
Location: Ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 1150
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Little House Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2020 at 3:42am

Originally posted by KiwiMum KiwiMum wrote:

Maybe the seriousness of this virus will only sink into the masses when they all start seeing friends and family coming down with it and being left with ongoing health issues as a result of it, or dying. I think the idea of "liberties" in the American mind has reached epic proportions and that some people seem to be so outraged that anything might impinge on their liberties that they really have lost their sense of both proportion and reason. 

So far, I do not know anyone who has gotten it. I do “know of” several people who have been diagnosed with it.  (Friend or family members of friends.).

I am hoping that by the time we reach 3.3 million diagnosed cases, people will start to believe that this is real and act accordingly. 3.3 million would be 1 in a hundred people in the US.  Most people know at least 100 people, so by this reasoning, most people would know someone who has been diagnosed.  

My fear is that it will take 3.3 million deaths to get us to the point where people take it seriously.

Back to Top
WitchMisspelled View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group


Joined: January 20 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 10315
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2020 at 5:12am

Originally posted by KiwiMum KiwiMum wrote:

I think the idea of "liberties" in the American mind has reached epic proportions and that some people seem to be so outraged that anything might impinge on their liberties that they really have lost their sense of both proportion and reason. 

I think you're right. And I'm sorry you have to deal with your sister knowing she's part of the problem.   I know I should know this, but can't recall where in the U.S. your sister is?

Back to Top
Emswally View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: January 25 2020
Location: Idaho USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1330
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Emswally Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2020 at 9:22am

VeI’ve pretty much given up on the people in my community. Walked into a store this morning in uniform ( first responder)    Have mymask on.  Someone looks at me and shakes their head.  I calmly asked what ?   Response.  You don’t need to wear a mask.  Ugh. I’m the one taking people to the hospital.      Give me a break.   Can’t avoid the public enough and can’t get everything online.  

Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 41086
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2020 at 8:29pm

G



I doubt if people realise that because, 

Covid19 is a 

"NOVEL"

virus the long term ramifications of even having a mild dose are not known yet, 

To think it's "just another virus"

Is foolhardy, and one should avoid  Catching it at all cost until more is known ,

Which could be years away.......

No-one takes any notice here if a person chooses to wear a mask.

Mind I do wonder why people wear one when in a car alone !!!???? see that here often.....

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
EdwinSm, View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group


Joined: April 03 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 15735
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2020 at 10:55pm

Originally posted by Emswally Emswally wrote:

Can’t avoid the public enough and can’t get everything online.  

If it keeps spreading there many not be too many of the public still able to go shopping / beach / rave parties etc.

Back to Top
CRS, DrPH View Drop Down
Expert Level Adviser
Expert Level Adviser


Joined: January 20 2014
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 24190
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 28 2020 at 12:49am

Originally posted by Emswally Emswally wrote:

VeI’ve pretty much given up on the people in my community. Walked into a store this morning in uniform ( first responder)    Have mymask on.  Someone looks at me and shakes their head.  I calmly asked what ?   Response.  You don’t need to wear a mask.  Ugh. I’m the one taking people to the hospital.      Give me a break.   Can’t avoid the public enough and can’t get everything online.  

Thanks, Ems!  I just presented to our town council on the importance of wearing masks, and the only member of the council wearing a mask was the Chief of the Fire Department.  The others seem to toe the administration line = "nothing to see here, move along." 

I've brought up what you said = if the public wears masks, they particularly help to protect our first responders, who by job description need to get up close & personal with humanity.   To chant "Blue lives matter!" and then denigrate wearing a mask is the ultimate in hypocrisy.  Be safe, all. 

CRS, DrPH
Back to Top
Little House View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member


Joined: February 13 2020
Location: Ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 1150
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Little House Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 28 2020 at 12:19pm

Originally posted by carbon20 carbon20 wrote:

Mind I do wonder why people wear one when in a car alone !!!???? see that here often.....

If I am going to be somewhere where I will need to wear a mask for a while, I will often put it on at home so that I can get it adjusted.  I find it hard to get it on in a way that keeps my glasses from steaming up.  The other time I will wear it in the car is if I have been around a lot of people.  I like to leave it on until I can get to somewhere where I can wash my hands.  If I take it off in the car, I am likely to touch my face and contaminate myself.  (I ran out of wipes and still can’t get more.)

I know that it seems weird that people wear masks in a car alone, but there are logical reasons to do so.

Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 41086
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 28 2020 at 3:14pm

Originally posted by Little House Little House wrote:

Originally posted by carbon20 carbon20 wrote:

Mind I do wonder why people wear one when in a car alone !!!???? see that here often.....

If I am going to be somewhere where I will need to wear a mask for a while, I will often put it on at home so that I can get it adjusted.  I find it hard to get it on in a way that keeps my glasses from steaming up.  The other time I will wear it in the car is if I have been around a lot of people.  I like to leave it on until I can get to somewhere where I can wash my hands.  If I take it off in the car, I am likely to touch my face and contaminate myself.  (I ran out of wipes and still can’t get more.)

I know that it seems weird that people wear masks in a car alone, but there are logical reasons to do so.

Fair enough,that makes sense...

In fact, it makes a great deal of sense,

I often see people 

Mishandling masks,and have never seen anyone "in the know " explain how to handle a used mask...

Thanks 😉

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
Tabitha111 View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group
Avatar

Joined: January 11 2020
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 7780
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tabitha111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2020 at 7:51am

I have posted this so many times I probably should just put it in a file...
I wear a mask as soon as I walk out my door when I am going to my car to go run an errand...such as grocery shopping, taking something to my son's house, visiting my son and his wife or picking up an RX or going to the vet...those are about the only things I do now...oh and get gas....

So 1) I am going to go on an errand that involves being around other people...I am not taking a country drive on a Sunday

2) my condo is busy as heck...kids out playing (I know all of them, so they run up to me if they see me, especially if my dog is with me) neighbors going to get the mail or run/walk the circle...so mask it is...

3) I wear an N95 with a cloth mask over it...you know how difficult that is to position correctly in my car with a tiny mirror as my guide? I fix it and forget it at home so I don't have to mess with it in the car with dirty hands that have touched the steering wheel, hauled dog into the car and various bags...and no I don't believe hand sanitzer is the be all and end all...yes I use it...but I would rather WASH my hands with soap and water

4) Like I said before...I am on a mission...if I was just going for a drive, I would probably have mask on when I walk out to car because of PEOPLE, but take if off for a drive...but I don't go for drives...always on a mission and loads of times its two or more missions...no way am I going to take off masks (plural) and put on masks...over and over again...just so no one laughs at me.


5) Laugh away or shake your head...I am LONG past the age where I give a flying frick what others think of me...LOL...in fact I wear my glasses now too (always wore contact lenses) because they give me that extra little bit of eye protection...if I really cared about how others perceive me..I would not wear them at all...

'When you feel as though you can't do something, the simple antidote is action: Begin doing it. Start the process, even if it's just a simple step, and don't stop at the beginning.'
Marcus B
Back to Top
CindyLou View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: March 12 2020
Location: MICHIGAN
Status: Offline
Points: 325
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote CindyLou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2020 at 8:39am

Originally posted by Tabitha111 Tabitha111 wrote:



 I wear my glasses now too (always wore contact lenses) because they give me that extra little bit of eye protection...if I really cared about how others perceive me..I would not wear them at all...

I bought swim goggles. Most sport supply stores and dollar stores sell them. I have several pair, as I keep them in the car and at home. They give more eye protection than glasses, as they are made to seal out water.

I don't leave the house either, unless it is absolutely necessary.

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down