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Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic since 2005; Coronavirus COVID-19 Pandemic Discussion Forum.

RESPECT !

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Dutch Josh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: RESPECT !
    Posted: August 16 2021 at 12:58am

DJ, 

Respect is the basis for any communication ! You have your opinion, others have their opinions...for their reasons ! 

"Respect must be earned" - how ? By agreeing ? Maybe people need to accept that "agree to disagree" may be the best available...

Here in NL our P(roble)M is rutte...In many ways his political views, his party views, get close to trump/republicans...But rutte does not only act friendly, he proberbly is very friendly...Most of the NL vvd-liberals may not agree with all of trump his idea's, but they may not see they-in action-may be not that remote...

If you think trump was a US problem, prepare for "trump-2", much worse, but very friendly ! 

In this pandemic communications are a major problem. "Herd immunity" still-in many countries-seems to be the goal-this time using vaccinations to get there. Leaky, far from perfect vaccines as a tool. 

Some countries go for "zero-Covid"...in their idea "Living with the virus=living with a worsening pandemic"...(And I am not neutral-I think zero-Covid is the only realistic perspective !). 

Since "I am right-you are wrong" may not be very effective, respect is a way out....

DJ-It may be very hard to accept "leaders" repeating mistakes...but if you can not change it...you have no alternative then to deal with it...

I think in NL most people think "our leaders" or are giving good directions/leadership or doing such a bad job, better get vaccinated...result is high percentage is willing to get vaccinated...("Sometimes taking the wrong train to the right station may not be a bad idea" was from an India-movie...) 

Mandatory vaccinations=confrontation....May also be unrealistic...how you want to force people to get a vaccine ? Pull them of the street, workplace, house by police ? Then a nurse pushing the needle in ? 

In China the culture is "group thinking" (and has nothing to do with communism, goes back centuries...). Sense of community...balancing between self interest and public interest is an art form ! 

Respect has to be the basis...

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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ViQueen24 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2021 at 8:59am

We have been talking about respect on this site.  I will tell you how I was raised to view respect.

First of all, all people deserve basic courtesy until they have earned your respect.  Courtesy means don't be rude, take turns, give people a chance, a little benefit of the doubt, etc, until you get to know them a bit.

I was taught that we must respect others' rights to have opinions.  We do not have to respect the opinions themselves.  If, for example, someone's opinions are racist, sexist, anti-Semitic, homophobic, transphobic, ageist, ableist, etc., they have the right to those opinions.  And I have the right to walk away from interactions with that person, and exclude them from my life, if I deem it appropriate.  And I think it's likely that those kinds of opinions would be called out on this site, and should be, and if extreme enough, those opinions could result in the person holding them being banned from this site just like on many other sites.

Respect is earned many ways, most commonly by having integrity, a good work ethic, being willing to admit and learn from mistakes, and by being conscious and properly observant of the balance between a person's own rights and needs, and those of society as a whole.  If someone is not endowed with these qualities, they will not be respected, and chances are their opinions will be heard as a courtesy only, as being in a civilized environment requires, but not honored or respected.

In this situation, I may not agree when someone decides not to vaccinate against Covid, for example.  But that alone is not going to cause me to call them out or not to respect them as a person, or not respect their right to not vaccinate.  But if they go out in public without a mask, don't social distance, and/or if they get symptoms while still potentially exposing others, and do not get tested, for example, and continue potentially exposing others, their behavior is dangerous, they deserve to be called out, and if possible, reported.  And they deserve whatever punishment they may receive for their reckless actions.  They and their anti-vax opinion, at that point, do not deserve my respect.  It is certainly a problem, therefore, when a person's behavior becomes dangerous to the welfare of many.  It is then the group's duty to deal with that danger, and lessen the impact of the dangerous one.  (S)he may not be expected to be happy about that, but that is the dangerous one's problem at that point, not the group's.

My stepfather was a crude man, very abusive.   But he did teach me at least two things: believe only 1/10 of what you read and hear and only half of what you see.  (Even with those provisos, to me, the preponderance of the evidence leans heavily toward Covid being at least as dangerous as most of us on this site believe, and that it must be battled aggressively as we have talked about).  And, opinions are like @$$h---$, everyone has one.  The difference is our @$$h---$ are alot more valuable.  In short, opinions only deserve as much respect as the person who has them, and their conduct.  Now, if an individual's opinions or the actions derived from those opinions could harm a group enough, would that group be wise to shun that individual?  That would be up to the group to decide.

Well, since you didn't, Josh, I will --


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Dutch Josh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2021 at 10:43pm

R.E.S.P.E.C.T. (find out what it means to me !!!!!) Still one of my favorites, since I love music I also have lots of favorites !

What is maybe the basic point ?

Here in NL the ruling "party" seems to have the basic idea of "eating this planet"...the poor can get some...the rich most...

They are very friendly often...but they are also very, very wrong ! (In my idea)

-Poverty, wealth are the outcome of a proces...if there is to much, or to long major inequality you have to look at "the system". Because in that system some people get to much of the pie, others to little...

-If the earth is that pie you should leave a lot of it to next generations...

In the US I think a lot of republicans may also show this kind of thinking; system is OK, poverty is a choice...To make the link to this forum; vaccinated, getting ill are choices governments should not make for the people..."freedom"...

If there was a major wildfire, hurricane, are those "liberals" against mandatory evacuation...? 

Here in NL "eating the planet" in other words-seems to be very popular...richness here and now, "we trust next generations will find new ways"...Basically this may be dividing NL as much as it is dividing a lot of other countries...

The "liberal dogma" did replace religion in NL...in some other countries it is mixed with religion...If you want to stop climate change, this pandemic, poverty, you have to stop this kind of "liberalism without responsibility"...it is a very destructive way of thinking (or lack of thinking...).

Governments are supposed to see the "bigger picture", ask experts, science for advice...That was the basic idea of a government ! An authority that can set rules for the good of all...And maybe the basic problem in this crisis is that rulers may have forgotten what their job is....

Respect is needed-from both sides-to discuss the job politics has....

Is climate change, pandemic a chance to make more profit ? Are "leaders" able to see the bigger picture ? Or can they only think of "bussiness oppertunities"...unable to see major risks ? A sort of "religious belief" markets can deal with all kind of risks much better then governments can...Money solves all problems...

DJ...Maybe my basic question to a lot of governments by now is "Are you mad ?"....

The world gone crazy was also on this forum....Leaders leading us into total collapse...still getting most of the votes... 

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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ViQueen24 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2021 at 8:39am

In the US, the Republicans are blaming the wildfires on poor forest management, but actually 57% of CA's forests are owned by the federal government, 40% are owned by private interests.  Most of those by corporations, some by individuals and a handful by Native tribes.  Obviously, if some cleaning up of the forests is in order, perhaps the Feds should set an example and commence to cleanin', doncha know?

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