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Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic since 2005; Coronavirus COVID-19 Pandemic Discussion Forum.

scenario's

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EdwinSm, View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2020 at 12:00am

I don't own the book so I can't quote the dates, but a history book about the island I am now living on recorded two events in the 1800s when the island lost 25% of its population to disease in one year.  Being isolated (although on the main sail-boat route from Stockholm to St Petersburg) meant that the diseases were 'novel' ones to the islanders.


[ps parish records were well kept so the data has a high degree of reliability]

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Dutch Josh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2020 at 2:23am

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_%C3%85land_Islands#Continuing_malaria_outbreaks[/url]

EdwinSM-most people do not know that malaria, cholera, TB etc were wide spread-also in western countries-till the '60s/70's-and also are coming back. Malaria sometimes may show up in southern Germany-due to climate change. 

Early settlements in Greenland, Iceland, North America (Vinland etc) also may have "died out".

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Dutch Josh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2020 at 3:02am

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/no-need-hard-quarantine-russia-which-closed-its-border-back-january[/url] Russia did act in time to Covid19-the numbers may not be a 100% but give an indication they A-closed the border with China in time and maybe B the virus had difficulty in dealing with freezing temperatures. [url]https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/france-other-us-allies-exit-iraq-bases-over-covid-19-fears[/url]-US is losing ground in SW Asia (Trump did have good contact with China in how to deal with Covid19 (no longer calling it the Wuhan-flu).

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/health/prof-who-predicted-500k-deaths-uk-has-startling-change-heart-now-predicts-under-20k-two-week[/url] and [url]https://www.zerohedge.com/health/millions-15-minute-coronavirus-home-testing-kits-will-be-available-uk-public-within-days[/url]-DJ-It would be fantastic news if A-good tests came available on a large scale in a short term and B there is already a lot of herd immunity. (DJ-I would have to see that before I believe it !)

Peak Prosperity also discussing on strategy [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YN7aBiICz4[/url] The only way to see if there is already usefull herd immunity has to be doing the right tests. Since exponential growth with a 3 day doubling period means 50% of the cases did get infected the past 3 days, 75% past 6 days, 87,5 past 9 days-if incubation period is between 2 to 14 days over 90% of infected may be without symptoms and could have a low virus-load. 

Economic pressure is becoming very massive-since most bussinisses have only limited financial reserves-may go bankrupt if stringent measures take months. Still "restarting the economy" to early will bring a second pandemic wave. (PP suggest massive use of face masks, keeping those most vulnarable isolated-sounds good to me (DJ) but when I would start wearing a facemasks in the Netherlands I could face agression-masks are only for health care workers-still)

[url]https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2020/03/25/621583/Iran-coronavirus-test-kits-[/url] Iran is making its own tests-could export them if they are good. (The US is the only country in the west willing to put sanctions on Iran-medical gear could be excluded).

[url]https://kcnawatch.org/newstream/1585216889-24679017/korean-people-help-each-other-in-combat-against-epidemic/[/url] North Korea is not included in most international reporting. 

DJ-I think-also Turkey, Africa, America's lots of refugeecamps-we are still in the early phase of a pandemic. GP's in the Netherlands say dutch CDC-RIVM-is not counting people dying at home from Covid19. There is a "theoritical line" based on models, official reporting, burocracy-that is defining the official response. And there is the "frontline-practice"giving a picture that is getting more and more different. In Germany also reporting from local level to national level may be "problematic" resulting in much to optimistic numbers while some hospitals are already running out of ICU's, masks, PPE's etc. 

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2020 at 9:24am
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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Dutch Josh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2020 at 12:27am

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN3BWaEH3tY[/url] another good Peak Prosperity (PP) update;

-In "Spiegel" Germany must have thousends of serious cases-somehow that does not get in international statistics.

-Phillippines very major underreporting

-Lancet-editor at BBC-the lack of preparing when-end of january we knew from China the pandemic was coming-is a scandal. 

-N.Y. health authority beginning of february-"there are no problems" take public transport, go shopping, parade etc.....

-cases in New Orleans exploding

-corona-virus can give you a cold-after that you have immunity for some months-lets hope covid19 gives longer immunity (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

-Why are there thousends of urn-vases being shipped to Wuhan if there were "only" just over 3000 covid-deaths ?

(DJ-how much colatteral deaths were there-not due to covid-infection but due to lack of care since Covid took all-and more-of the care being given. Wuhan has [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuhan[/url] over 11 million inhabitants-so on a daily bases-under normal conditions-thousends are born and die there-taking care of "normal deaths" may have stopped for a time-it could be logical)

Hal Turner claims "Huge military call up in USA"-(behind paywall) very likely-PP reporting so many cases of HCW not being protected, infected, dying-it is only logical all reserves are being put in action. 

Elsewere on this forum a picture of how there seems to be no stop on flights in/from the US-spreading the virus like crazy....

(DJ-In a first stage cfr may be very limited-but when the healthsystem collapses cfr goes up both from covid19 and other causes-stage two. Stage three is collapse of logistics, police etc. food problems, safety becomes an issue-the US seems to be moving very fast to stage three. You can call in the military but there are also limits to what they can do; "create safe zones" you end up with "war lords" in control of some area's. At a certain level the central government is acting on false data controlling nobody-the end game. Sad thing this could and should have been prevented. The economy is gone-a lock down for months would have done much less damage.

The US is not the only state in this position-but with nuclear plants and weapons it is the most dangerous state in this position. With drug lords, a criminal second economy, you know who is able to get control....) 

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/13-reasons-fear-coming-covid-world-order[/url]

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2020 at 12:49am

Originally posted by Dutch Josh Dutch Josh wrote:

(DJ-In a first stage cfr may be very limited-but when the healthsystem collapses cfr goes up both from covid19 and other causes-stage two. Stage three is collapse of logistics, police etc. food problems, safety becomes an issue-the US seems to be moving very fast to stage three. You can call in the military but there are also limits to what they can do; "create safe zones" you end up with "war lords" in control of some area's. At a certain level the central government is acting on false data controlling nobody-the end game. Sad thing this could and should have been prevented. The economy is gone-a lock down for months would have done much less damage.

The US is not the only state in this position-but with nuclear plants and weapons it is the most dangerous state in this position. With drug lords, a criminal second economy, you know who is able to get control....) 

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/13-reasons-fear-coming-covid-world-order[/url]

Thank you, DJ!  Many of us in the American prep community have long anticipated such a dystopian scenario.   As this ramps up, who knows what will happen? 

With our Pres. Trump sending US troops to the border with Canada, you have to figure that the patients have taken over the insane asylum over here! 

Be well, DJ!  

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Dutch Josh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2020 at 2:16am

CRS, DrPH-In Brazil judges, states, cities manage to get some grip on their "leading idiot bolsenaro". Lets hope in the US-with a lot of intelligent people-on lower levels corrections can be made when the #1 is a disaster.

Good info like MedCram [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPAr3FB1LHQ[/url] Paul Beckwith [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-odvYiy60cI[/url] can provide education were governments fail. 

With no affordable health insurance for most, hospitals for profit, no paid sickleave, still almost all transport going on in most of the US it is unfair to put all the blame on trump. But the west knew this was coming since (early) january ! 

[url]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#page-top[/url] now not only mentions over 600.000 confirmed cases (the real number will be at least 10X higher)  but also when the first case showed up !

Stay safe-there are lots of things you can do-get enough sleep, accept a (mild) fever because it may help to fight the infection. 

But for those millions in the US without a house or in prison......(25%+ of all global prisoners are in US-private ???-prisons) the outcome looks bleak.  

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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Dutch Josh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2020 at 12:51am

DJ-Another good presentation by Paul Beckwith [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UL8jDwRxz7M[/url].. "Made in Italy" luxery goods does not say it was made by Chinese in Italy. Tens-of-thousends Chinese with direct flights from China. Criminal "taking care of dead people" to sell their pasports. 

The outbreak in Italy is directly linked to the China outbreak. In itself the Italy outbreak was transported to the US. Canadians had a march-break-over 3% went to the US, Canadians in the US and EU wanted to return to Canada "at all cost" even ill in a plane. But most of the infected are in the 20-29 year age-and do not show (severe) symptoms-transporting the virus allover the globe. 

"Rest at home or rest in peace", "stay 6 ft away are end 6ft under" are some slogans-the old wisdom that during a plague you do not travel was forgotten by those who make decisions.

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-odvYiy60cI&t=1s[/url] most virusses are influenced by warmer weather-maybe Covid19/SARS2 will slow down ? (To keep some hope).

DJ-The lack of action in "the west" only offer worst case scenario's. The worst of those scenario's is [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_event[/url], part of [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sixth_Extinction:_An_Unnatural_History[/url]

Already climate change is disrupting food production, we have a global economy that is making 0.1% of the people extremely rich at the cost of others. We did see a decline in spending on education, healthcare, social security. This is making the global society very vulnerable. On top of that we have a new "cold war" with hypersonic weapons, cyberwar etc. 

Comparing with the Spanish Flu-nowadays most people live in urban area's, depend for their food, jobs etc on global economy. In 1918 local economy could provide food, jobs to the 2 billion people back then. (Half of them got infected, 500 million got sick, 100 million-5% of the global population-died). 

The Spanish flu came in three waves-the second wave turned out to be deadliest. But once you had the flu-type you could have very long lasting immunity. Immunity for corona-virusses may last for a few months....and we are only in the first wave. 

The best worst case scenario would see a total travel ban, people stay/work from home-goods being delivered on their door-for MONTHS !!!!! You have to get the R0 <1-stop the spread. Some essential jobs-to keep a basic economy going-can be done by workers who stay-isolated-at the jobsite. 

I (DJ) do believe that slowly we may move to this scenario-at the costs of (tens of) millions-with Covid19/SARS2 ravaging through Latin America, Africa, India etc were slumps will be out of control. (Even when gangs in Rio are punishing people that get outdoors-the housing is that poor, families that large-it will spread any way). 

"It did not have to be this way" 

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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Dutch Josh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2020 at 3:37am

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqKwAIIy-Mo&t=6s[/url] MedCram update 43-on how an epidemic works.

DJ-My translation of the story-say half the global population get infected (optimistic scenario) by Covid19/SARS2. Something like 4 billion. Of that group 20% would need medical care=800 million. (Some 5% need ICU-care).The peak of those cases would be spread over months...some countries will manage better than others-all countries will be overrun-with also millions of people dying from other causes, risk of outbreaks of other diseases etc. 

The "weapons"/means of defense are various, from travel-stop, self-isolation, using soap, a TB-vaccine looks promissing in increasing the immune system. Testing (serological/bloodtests) at a cerain moment can help identify those who did get immunity. 

Still on a global scale-in this late phase to stop the spread-with so little steps taken by most countries-another usefull action has to be to increase medical facilities. (Maybe also splitting care for non-covid patients from covidpatients to lower "collateral deaths" from non-covid diseases. 

From maximum efforts to produce PPE, masks etc. to keep Health Care Workers (HCW) safe-as good as possible-and keep a basic healthcare standing. To maximum enforce rules to limit the spread of Covid-19/SARS2. (Another action has to be monitoring other upcoming infections/diseases. Also a second wave of corona-infections-maybe even hitting people who did get infected earlier and believed to be immune should be detected in the very early stage. )

This is "a job" for the coming (two ?) years-not months. To be realistic-given the poor state of healthcare in most countries-we may be very lucky if we can keep the number of deaths < 100 million. (And that is a very optimistic estimate.) The sooner "world leaders"become realistic on this problem the more lives can be saved. 

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2020 at 5:50am

Countries with the highest "health security index "are failing in Covid19 outbreak. 

The US is not stopping its agression against Iran, Venezuela etc. instead of spending money on improving healthcare "zillions" go to big companies and wars. [url]https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/03/in-a-time-of-crisis-us-foreign-policy-gets-worse.html[/url]

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/health/dont-look-now-people-responsible-worlds-food-supply-are-starting-get-sick[/url]

DJ-The US should stop sabotaging international aid in the fight against Covid19 !

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2020 at 11:42pm

Another good update from Peak Prosperity-showing even some optimism ! [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w9M6K9vSUM[/url].. MASKS !!!!

-The WHO keeps publishing nonsense-Covid 19 would not be airborne-virus that heavy it would drop within seconds-fact is virus are very light-WHO claim of 1 metre distance as "safe"is insane-8 metres is "safe" in some aspects. But virus particles may hang in the air for hours-can end up in air conditioning etc....

The best protection-since over 80% of Covid19 is spread by people with no or light symptoms-is masks !!!

The lesser virusparts one can bring in the air the better-a mask also can protect you from virusparts in the air, remind you not to touch your face...countries that use (home made) masks see a (sharp) reduction in cases. Still in a lot of western countries (including NL) you are considered "crazy" wearing a mask-"that is needed in healthcare". Wearing a mask makes uneducated people believe YOU are infected-should stay home in the first place...

DJ-Since social media can be a very major influencer-better than most governments, CDC's, WHO, social media can be used to change this way of thinking. 

PP also showing ways to desinfect masks (paper bag-put mask inside-heat above 57C for over 1 hour-but storage in a dry place-for 9 (+) days-(with sunlight if possible) can also do the trick. )

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/its-super-painful-bill-gates-urges-10-week-nationwide-lockdown[/url]

DJ-Since Covid19/SARS2 is now totally out of control worldwide (masks may decrease the speed of spread R0) healthcare is going to collapse. We have to get the R0 down to <1 to stop the spread. (The PP story could be used to try people to "act normal" -reopen schools, work etc-with masks-but that would be a bad idea). 

Looking at the numbers [url]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/[/url] and reminding that incubation-peak is 5 days healthcare is close to a crash in lots of places. In India over 120 million migrant workers on the move to their small vilages-due to a lock down (so no work, no income, no housing or care=go back to family). Worldwide the number of refugeees is in the tens of millions...."third world"(we only have ONE world DJ) countries facing explosive rise of cases...this is just the early stage of the first wave of this pandemic....

DJ-With the US still pushing/promoting wars in/against Syria, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, Libya, Venezuela, North Korea etc. while US forces face Covid19 the risks for nuclear war increases. (DJ-Put the doomsday clock closer to midnight 10 seconds by a million more cases of (tested) Covid19/SARS2 cases ? We are now a (very optimistic) 100 seconds away from midnight). 

-Heatwaves proberbly just weeks away, other extreme weatherevents, seismic activity can happen every moment-further increasing problems. 

The international community (= including us all as humans) have to make survival top priority (or face the consequences...)

MedCram -update 42 on animal testing-after 28 days after recovery from first infection monkeys could not get reinfected with Covid19. [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4P91VrfPGw[/url].. DJ point is immunity for corona-virus that give a cold last longer than 28 days most times-but you can get reinfected by those virusses within a year...it is good they are testing but this described test (in China) did not (yet) provide new information. Re-infection is a big worry !

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4P91VrfPGw[/url] For the US at local level cases

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2020 at 11:26pm

(somehow the message disappeared while updating......)

PP [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6Gy9nPAQE0[/url]

-German approach of massive testing treatment in early stages helps to keep CFR at 0.4%

-Treatment story in NYC (chloroquine, Z-pac antibiotics, Zink) succesfull ?

-Most of US "help" goes to 0.1% elite (at the cost of everybody else)

-Cases in Equador ends hope for "summerbreak" in cases

-Numbers do slow down (maybe by problems in testing ?)

-Social unrest in Italy due to food shortages, lack of income

[url]https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-pentagon-secre/exclusive-as-coronavirus-spreads-u-s-military-to-withhold-some-infection-data-idUSKBN21D1YL?fbclid=IwAR1p0JznLM5HxYZBLiJ1q8ozVoh1sFXLMWUhQXCcP2IJwKE_JNAffRASA10[/url],

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/health/pentagon-confirms-over-1000-covid-19-cases-among-military-tells-bases-stop-public-reporting[/url]

DJ-Not good timing for the US to start even more wars (still trump not doing what he claimed he would do-get US out of endless M.E. wars)

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/personal-finance/greater-depression-shocking-images-show-horror-americas-new-breadlines[/url]

(The result of corrupt politics only working for the rich 0.1%)

DJ-More warnings from China on a "second wave" of imported cases (?) [url]https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00938-0[/url]

DJ-I still have major questions on "herd immunity"-does that immunity after Covid19 infection last months or years ? News out of China about a "second wave" needs all the attention it can get. There is NO herd immunity in China-from the population of 1.3 billion even if China did lie on a large scale-10% would be 130 million people-if that number got infected you need 80/90/95% immunity to get "herd immunity". Also coronavirus mutates, immunity for colds is something less than a year. 

-This became a pandemic due to lots of organizations/governments simply not doing their job-mainly in the West !. China did give warnings in january-the rest of the world failed to take action. 

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2020 at 5:43am

DJ [url]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/[/url] the covid19/sars2 cases went over 800.000 tested cases. Some models expected round one million by the end of March-in that way this is "good news". 

[url]https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/03/trump-putin-will-discuss-the-end-of-us-shale-oil.html[/url]

DJ-Due to the global coronacrisis demand for oil has dropped 20% while production went up-by Russia , Saudi Arabia  (nrs 2 and 3 in oil production) .(Most likely also others, Iran,  Venezuela,China in the South China Sea etc. increased production.). Since the US  (#1 oil producer since a few years) strategic goal was to control the global energy market and enforce all global energy-deals to be made in US-petro-$ the US "basicly lost world war 3". 

[url]https://tass.com/economy/1137795[/url]

[url]https://www.rt.com/news/484539-who-experts-covid19-pandemic/[/url] in Asia far from over.

DJ-Trends are being put to test reality. Russia-China work together in the Covid19-crisis-most likely giving aid to Iran (with the US; [url]https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2020/03/31/621994/Iran-Turkey-gas-exports-pipeline-explosion[/url]), [url]https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/coronavirus-china-and-russia-call-us-lift-iran-sanctions[/url]

The global coronacrisis will "change the world". [url]https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/putin-says-rich-must-pay-covid-19-chaos[/url]

The US=breaking up; [url]https://www.zerohedge.com/health/some-states-are-now-intercepting-travelers-other-states-and-forcing-them-quarantine[/url].. DJ-I do not expect US elections in november any longer. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2020 at 6:16am

Originally posted by Dutch Josh Dutch Josh wrote:

-Treatment story in NYC (chloroquine, Z-pac antibiotics, Zink) succesfull ?

No word on this yet.  My heroine nurses who are working at Lutheran NYU Brooklyn said the trials just started yesterday in this Hospital.  I don't know if trials started sooner in other hospitals.  They did report they're having trouble gaining releases from patients to try this drug therapy.  No one wants to be first.  But they are getting some.  

They're only using it for hospitalized patients who are not yet on ventilators.  From what I've read this is when this combination of drugs is most effective and can keep people off ventilators.  If I find out anything, I'll let you know.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2020 at 7:03am

WM (wichmisspelled) thanks-good there are [url]https://nltimes.nl/2020/03/31/coronavirus-vaccine-research-leiden-lands-1-billion-investment-us-johnsonjohnson[/url] lots of efforts to find cures. [url]https://nltimes.nl/2020/03/30/study-launched-risk-factors-covid-19[/url]

[url]https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/mar/29/coronavirus-survivors-blood-plasma-could-be-used-to-fight-infection[/url]

As far as I know they are trying to use this way [url]https://nltimes.nl/2020/03/25/plasma-recovered-coronavirus-patients-help-new-covid-19-cases-blood-banks[/url]  (a.o. in NL-can not find recent link)

Pixie-I notice a lot of anti-China propaganda on US websites-of course China is also "helping for propaganda reasons"-but at least they are helping and able to help (all at a certain price-I do not have any illusions on "the New China century") 

In a Dutch TV programm an investor described the US as "a country with 300 million people and 340 million guns". The view outside the US of the US is a lot different than most US citizens see the US. 

I hope the EU can find a balance between Russia/China and the US/UK. 

I wonder how US people on this forum see the elections ? Will they happen ? Biden vs Trump both 70+ ? (The last US election was not a succes from democratic point of view-h.clinton getting more vote's after stealing the candidacy from Sanders, Trump hardly accepted by the republicans-winning by state.)

My view is that this pandemic hits harder by every step. 1 China limited damage-2 EU most damage in southern EU-3 US/Canada severe damage-4 "third world" mass destruction coming

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pheasant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2020 at 7:41am

Interesting reads Dutch...and Thank you.

Pixie, have you found that Italian piece anywhere else, That is a VERY interesting piece, Don't understand why we have it seen it before.

The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself......FDR
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2020 at 8:37am

[url]https://www.globalresearch.ca/covid-19-two-major-waves-of-global-infection-towards-global-contamination/5707588[/url]

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/health/there-are-least-8-strains-coronavirus-heres-what-we-know[/url]

DJ-There were stories of "the US being behind the West Africa ebola outbreak", China behind the Congo-recent outbreak.A lot of countries did-some controversial-research. I will not rule out some countries "tested" research in their own borders or abroad. (Nuclear tests untill the 60's are famous for that-[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Plumbbob[/url] and [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_testing_at_Bikini_Atoll[/url]-almost all nuclear weapon states violated human rights in their research).

I do not know if this pandemic is the result of bio-weapon testing from US, China and for know wonder if there is much point in that.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pixie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2020 at 8:41am

Debunked.  https://www.maltatoday.com.mt/news/national/101289/rais_2015_leonardo_episode_on_a_chinese_supervirus_debunked_by_scientists#.XoNj1uv3arW

This virus seems too perfect,it is turning out to be an equal opportunity killer.infections,deaths drop only to resurge a few days later.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2020 at 12:01am

Moon of Alabama (MoA)[url]https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/03/us-virus-cases-are-off-the-scale-but-its-people-can-create-a-movement-from-it.html[/url] and Peak Prosperity (PP)[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5bTkoHt-kk&list=PLRgTUN1zz_oeQpnJxpeaEkFimDeepqyWf[/url] on the same lines;

-comorbidities (diabetes, hearth disease, bloodpressure, obesity etc) are widespread around US (and EU) so

"only 60+ with comorbidities" means a lot of people

-masks can prevent a lot of problems (PP on a choir singing together march 10-of the 60 people 45 have covid 19-some already dead)

-instead of providing free health care, paid sick leave (as all other civilized countries have) the US  (Fed) is moving "zillions" to the 0.1% already very rich (and useless-but every $, € or yen counts in our democrazy).

-"we could not see this coming"-excuse-early warnings from China came in december !

DJ-There are already strikes at Amazon etc, health care workers fisking their life fighting Covid19 in for-profit hospitals is insane.

Global China claims to "start working again" but we will have to see that. It makes a different picture than 1929. In those days the US was (by far) the #1-now it was already in close competition with China. EurAsia integration may gain speed.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2020 at 1:23pm

Since trump failed to the extreme in the Covid19 pandemic his administration is looking for distractions;

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/here-we-go-again-china-puts-entire-county-lockdown-after-new-corona-cluster-emerges[/url]

(DJ-Looks like a very limited outbreak China is able to stop in the short term-a second wave is a real risk)

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/surprise-tweet-trump-warns-iran-sneak-attack-tehran-pay-very-heavy-price[/url]

(DJ-The IRAQ government wants the US out-so trump blames Iran for that. Instead of free-good-healtcare, jobsecurity, paid sick leave trump is spending more on the 0.1% and more endless war-while the US is becoming unable to get the Covid19 under control-what better time to start yet another war in Iraq...)

DJ-The speed of spread of Covid19 cases-most likely not tested-in the US is alarming.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2020 at 10:48pm

DJ-When your house is on fire the major question is-how do I get out (with loved ones etc) NOT how did this fire start. 

The US is asking the wrong question-for the moment. [url]https://www.zerohedge.com/health/one-worst-coverups-human-history-msm-turns-gaze-chinese-biolab-near-covid-19-ground-zero[/url] 

The US priorities should be:

1-When you get sick in the US you lose income, job housing-solve that problem

2. When you get sick in the U.S. the (for profit) healthcare is that expensive often-most people can not pay for even getting tested.

3. Health Care Workers are underpaid, underprotected-so often infected-Health Care in the U.S. may be gone within a week !

4. States, Federal Govt. Private hospitals competing on a market for all medical materials instead of workin together

5. The money that is available goes to big companies and endless wars

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFwkjlaYJeA&list=PLRgTUN1zz_oeQpnJxpeaEkFimDeepqyWf[/url], (P.P.)

[url]https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/04/china-did-not-deceive-us-counting-death-during-an-epidemic-is-really-difficult.html[/url]

[url]https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/en/news-page/world/connecticut-governor-medical-supply-stockpile-is-now-empty-we-are-on-our-own[/url]

DJ-The US accepted buying medical materials from Russia-but that is the only good news from the US right now. For the rest this pandemic could be controlled-like in the EU or China-trump "may stop some inside US flights"-the US are creating a global disaster!

DJ-When I look at statistics at [url]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/[/url] a lot of (western) countries manage to get a grip on this pandemic. The medical system somehow survives, there is food at supermarkets, no major medecation issues yet. It shows that-yes this Covid19 is bad-but it is not destroying everything. Mismanagement made things worse-the US should do (MUCH !!!!!) better !

Blaming China in April for not giving enough info while the world watched the Wuhan-lockdown in January is insulting and stupid !

Even China has some blame-their food markets were unsafe, maybe bio-research (in co-operation with France after the SARS outbreak) plays a role. When you look at Fukushima nuclear disaster one may blame many-TEpco for not operating safe plants, the builders for not building one, the Japan government for not controlling safety-and now both Tepco and Japan  govt.for lying.

If the Wuhan bio-lab made a mistake should one blame the Chinese government without further info ? Maybe China is trying to find out what caused this outbreak themselves-their first priority is getting the outbreak under control....

The US govt should do everything to get the outbreak in the US under control-otherwise there will no longer be a US-not acting, mismanagement has made things that much worse in the US....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2020 at 1:28am

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/political/sweden-begins-abandon-liberal-coronavirus-approach-deaths-surge[/url] Sweden starts to realize "there is a problem".

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/watch-riots-jewish-neighborhoods-israeli-police-move-close-synagogues-amid-outbreak[/url] DJ-Orthodox religion (in Iran, Israel, US etc-goes for ALL religions) is making matters worse...

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/panama-introduces-gender-based-lockdown-covid-19-death-toll-rises[/url]

DJ-Men are more likely to die from Covid19-some indications suggest

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/health/spain-reports-more-five-times-many-covid-19-deaths-capita-us[/url] First day more than 1 case per million in US was march 7th (as far as tested) means the number of fatalities will still go up in the US...

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/political/america-preparing-civil-war[/url]

DJ-Tensions and trends get stronger due to Covid19. From the (not so) United States to UK, Israel etc. 

The "real stress-test"is how countries handle the outbreak(s). There are virologists warning for a second wave in fall/winter-calling for "strong long term measures" . The more a health care system breaks down the more likely other outbreaks of (all kind) of illness and people dying that would otherwise survive. 

The economic "damage"will be gigantic but it is politics that can decide on who has to carry (most) of the burden-the poor or the rich.  Governments can take control in reshifting the workforce-use taxidrivers to deliver food when there are no passengers, use hotels for homeless and sick instead of keeping them empty. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2020 at 4:47am

Take this at face value:

It was the Orthodox community that made fighting the measles epidemic almost impossible here in NY because they do not recognize any news or authority but their own.

It was only when NY stopped funding schools that failed to require measles vaccinations and HHS reports months into the crisis that Orthodox leaders said.. "We didnt' know" "Why didn't you come to us?" "Why didn't you tell us?". Meanwhile public service announcements were blasting through all media for weeks and weeks.

That level of secularism is a problem.  No doubt!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2020 at 11:19pm

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1aoULlMpn0[/url]  UK Dr. John Campbell; a talk on a study of Imperial College London

-Non Pharmaceutical Interventions (NPI) in 11 European countries saved 59.000 lives till the end of March 

-till March 28 between 7 and 43 million people in those countries got infected (between 2 and 11,5% in this model-the number of people with no/mild symptoms may be higher than expected=lower CFR)

-Germany, Norway had "low attack rate/R0/Rt", Italy, Spain a high R0/Rt-in the last two countries the virus may have been spread widely before lock down

-lack of (good) testing major problem (to check model)

-lag of 2/3 weeks between NPI/lockdown and drop in cases/fatalities

-CFR may between 0,2 and 1% (in Covid cases)

(DJ-Good news in itself-timing is essential. Spain and Italy were late in NPI-Germany, Norway in time. If you are to early you may not be able to keep lockdowns lasting long enough. Sweden had a model of "sitting it out"-they have now given that idea up. UK had the same idea but gave up earlier. Netherlands believed in "controlled spread" to get group immunity. Looking at the numbers [url]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/[/url] Belgium has more cases, deaths per millions than the NL. Norway and Germany with cases per millions get near NL-but there may be a difference in testing-Germany doing a much better job. Of course when you test less you find less cases. The number of deaths per million are very different-NL doing far worse than Germany or Norway.

For the US and Canada the bad news is that you will see effects of measures in 2-4 weeks (people can be in ICU for weeks and still die). The rise in cases, deaths will go up-ICU will not be able to deal with the number of cases. In NL the policy for triage is expected outcome. In practice this means that a 50 y/o long term smoker may not go to the last ICU but the 65 y/o healthier person may get a chance there...the US, Canada (Brazil etc) should prepare policies for triage-but in NYC etc they are already beyond that point. 

[url]https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/en/[/url] is reporting problems in food, medication. For logistics you need drivers-when they fall ill on a large scale you have a problem. India and China are the main producers of medication-but that medication has to end up at the person in need. Failing logistics can effect much nore than food and medication-also energy can get hurt.)

Peak Prosperity-MASKS, MASKS, MASKS ! [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkN8yCWSGus[/url]

-1 stops spreading the virus

-2 stops you from touching nose, mouth

-3 if you do get infected a lower viral load-better chances of no/mild symptoms

(DJ-When you do not have symptoms you do not feel ill-but you are spreading the virus...that is what it makes hard to fight this outbreak) Here in NL people are still advised against masks by the RIVM-that soon will change (and we will buy it via aliexpress from China). 

DJ-In all-this pandemic can be controlled but the later there is action the more damage will be done. [url]https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/here-comes-next-crisis-30-all-mortgages-will-default-biggest-wave-delinquencies-history[/url], [url]https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/04/why-the-us-will-drown-in-covid-19-cases.html[/url] (acting stupid does not help)

Old crises that were not solved good enough will show up again. [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJXkyeJBr_Q[/url] climate change makes this fight much harder...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2020 at 12:09am

DJ-Peak Prosperity update [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niyQ4yg1_FQ[/url];

-It took 4 months to get to 500.000 infected-something like 4 days to reach the 1.000.000 (tested) cases

-P.P. expects 10.000.000 cases 2 to 3 weeks away

-Sweden showed how not acting leads to disaster, Japan, Equador disasterzones

-Masks help-but loking at the fight to get such simple basic info excepted leaves one almost without hope

-"Great depression" is on its way-(to) big (to fail) banks are NOT working for you, government help goes to the rich

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/millions-small-american-businesses-stunned-learn-they-are-not-eligible-government-bailout[/url]

(DJ-P.P. and a lot of other info has a problem with loking much further than the US. Global economy is based on debt-but the US is doing so much worse-in another phase-than upcoming economy China or oil exporter Russia-both buying gold for several years.

The US is in a far worse position-even compared to the EU-that has better (balanced) trade relations around the globe.)

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bur9Oerlp5o[/url] Paul Beckwith with some basic calculations on how many millions will die from the Covid19 pandemic-you may double the number of direct Covid19 cases for colatteral deaths due to health care (close to) collapse. 

Care homes are "cruiseships without the luxery on land"-if you can get your familymember out there.

[url]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/[/url] now including number of tests (per million)-and the US is-now- doing good in testing, better than a lot of EU countries.

Still there are some other (horror) numbers; the US now has 22 (Covid19-tested positive) deaths per million, Italy, Spain 240. When you translate the 240 per million to the US you get 90.000/100.000 deaths. From other info the US has 100.000 ICU-maybe they may double that during the crisis to 200.000. Spain has 2500 cases per million the US has 800 (to keep the calculation simple) -

the US may hit 900.000 cases within a week-or earlier. The US healthcare system already has major problems in dealing with present numbers. 

DJ-In the EU Germany had "an overload" of ICU capacity (40.000 ICU)-now Italy, France, Netherlands can also use that. For the US Canada or Mexico can not do much-their systems will be even more stretched. International cooperation is needed-hospital ships, field hospitals etc. 

A lot of other countries Africa, Latin America, Middle East, Asia are facing even worse outcomes. 

[url]https://www.euromomo.eu/[/url] showing the statistics getting influenced by Covid19 (tested or untested-in the NL last halve of March statistics show several hundreds more died than can be explained by official Covid-count)

The number of deaths in the recent weeks should be interpreted with caution as adjustments for delayed registrations may be imprecise. Furthermore, results of pooled analyses may vary depending on countries included in the weekly analyses. Pooled analyses are adjusted for variation between the included countries and for differences in the local delay in reporting.

 

EuroMOMO map


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2020 at 1:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2020 at 10:30pm

DJ-Sometimes it can be usefull to "sit and try to get an overview" of the situation;

-Looking at statistics one would belief the US is the hardest hit by Covid19

-Putting all the numbers together-in statistics-the EU has been hit harder (over 500.000 cases-the US over 300.000 cases-also in cases/deaths per million)

-Statistics can present a false picture; Africa, Latin America, India, lots of other places in (S.E.) Asia, North Korea must be far worse than both the US or EU-or on the way of getting there soon

-China is getting out of this first wave of Covid19, some other countries (Singapore, South Korea) are also over "the peak", in the EU the number of cases do not increase mostly-since the number of deaths follow that trend by two-four weeks the EU may be getting out of this healthcrisis for now

What to do ?-Try to avoid a second wave;

-international travel has to remain low

-testing should increase (this is not only testing for Covid19 but also testing means of contact tracing-learn from what some countries did with the internet, China, Israel, Singapore showed how to manage the spread

-deal with the consequences;

- China has to avoid these kind of outbreaks-diplomacy, talks on what has happened-sharing information on food safety can be constructive steps

-This outbreak became a pandemic by inaction. The west did get more than enough information in time to deal with it-but the west failed in doing anything in time

-Blaming China is not helping-we need the production capacity for tests, PPE, medication etc

-The economic disaster coming is the result of countries not solving their problems (but "kicking the can down the road")

the 2008 banking crisis, Euro-crisis were not solved-they are back again stronger due to Covid19 but not the result of Covid19-rhey were there before

-Since healthcare is essential for safety "we" as richer nations have to do more to create better conditions in "third world countries"

(a more cynical view is that some may welcome a lot of deaths in "third world countries" to steal resources, recolonization)

-another major point has to be ; treaties are signed by countries, one can not break an international treaty because one does not like the representative taking the place earlier (Trump is damaging the US by not realizing Obama signed-not as a person but as the US)

Can we get out of this ?

Climate change is (still) escalating. The economies for now have slowed down-it could buy us a very little extra time-but we need wisdom to use that time well


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2020 at 11:48pm

DJ-[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/health/boris-johnson-admitted-hospital-due-persistent-coronavirus-symptoms[/url] and [url]https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/en/news-page/world/on-a-ventilator-boris-johnson-prime-minister-of-uk-covid-19[/url]

You do not go to the hospital sunday evening "for routine checks"-it may be (very) serious.

-[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/health/when-will-coronavirus-lockdowns-be-lifted-here-are-one-banks-estimates[/url]

Looking at "how the statistics go" we may see "some restart" of the economy in June. (But a lot of measures may last for up to two years. [url]https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/why-crisis-turning-point-history[/url]

- PP-very good interview/talk Chris Martenson talking to virologist Angela Rasmussen on Covid19 [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf35wbfnJ6I&t=2s[/url] From "host-response" to re-infection, not all corona-virusses being the same. They gave up studying coronavirusses almost-just before the 2003 SARS-outbreak. And yes, pandemics, healthcrises (H5N!, Ebola, SARS, MERS) has been around-this pandemic-in some form-could be expected. 

-Dr. John Campbell with his sunday april 5 update [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zv2imTjQfGo[/url]

-WHO 30 vaccines under development-some of them may be usefull in 2021, polio door-to-door vaccination stopped in third world

-Taiwan did take strong measures before Chinese New Year (january 25)-close border with China, testing etc

-USA other parts of the US are 1-2 weeks behind New York-worst is yet to come (also-again-no federal response, states competing for medical resources, California doing good in lockdown, other states complete faillure)

-UK, increase in deaths of 30% since second halve of March, 5 y/o child with co-morbidities died

-UK, France not at the peak of cases yet, Italy, Spain may have had the worst

-(South)Africa, with up to 25% also HIV positive outlook is bad-just like in other poor countries

(DJ-Masks may be usefull there, lock downs do not work when there is no food on the table)

-[url]https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/en/news-page/world/us-navy-amphibious-ready-group-transits-strait-of-hormuz-us-drone-enters-iranian-air-space[/url] DJ-trump has many reasons to start a war with Iran;

-punish China for covid19/trum not getting reelected-China gets a lot of oil from Iran

-push up oilprice, Saudi Arabia and Russia are pushing the US (expensive shale) oil out of the market

-get attention away from trumps total faillure in dealing with Covid19

[url]https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/04/the-moa-week-in-review-open-thread-2020-27.html[/url]

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2020 at 6:11am

Originally posted by Dutch Josh Dutch Josh wrote:


Looking at "how the statistics go" we may see "some restart" of the economy in June. (But a lot of measures may last for up to two years. [url]https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/why-crisis-turning-point-history[/url]

Yes, I've been reading a re-start ranging somewhere between June and August.  But all of the trade papers I've been reading seems to point to 2022 for significant recovery.  Noting that the much of the world economy was stable because of American spending.  I'm not sure American spending will be revived anytime soon.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2020 at 8:54am

WitchMisspelled-good point, 

[url]https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/International_trade_in_goods[/url],

[url]https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/International_trade_in_goods#Strong_increase_in_trade_in_goods_with_China_in_2009-2019[/url]

DJ-China so far is good in exporting goods-they do import energy (from Russia, Iran, KSA etc), German cars, but "high tech" is political sensitive. 

The US market will be "problematic for some time".

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2020 at 11:25pm

[url]https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/en/news-page/world/unconfirmed-reports-claim-uk-prime-minister-dead[/url]

DJ-PP is describing how Covid19 may work. The virus attacks red bloodcells-hemoglobin ([url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemoglobin[/url] thereby releasing iron, replacing it so the bloodcells are unable to transport oxygen-resulting in both lungs and other organs running out of oxygen. This proces can go very fast and kills. 

There is no further info on the UK PM-[url]https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52194875[/url] but the Hal Turner story may be real...

Peak Prosperity (PP) had good news; [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNDE12HymYc&list=PLRgTUN1zz_oeQpnJxpeaEkFimDeepqyWf[/url];

Very promising developments on the covid-19 treatment and vaccine fronts. First, PittCoVacc, a vaccine candidate out of the University of Pittsburg, follows previously existing approaches, very similar to the way the flu vaccine works. Initial tests on mice have proven successfully in producing copious antibodies against covid-19. 

The vaccine delivery system is both painless and highly scalable. So whether or not PittCoVacc is the "silver bullet" here, it's existence shows that the energies and innovation of our research companies is yielding good options -- a process that should only accelerate from here. (DJ-The microneedles on sugarbase mixed with the vaccin makes me think of a plaster-send to everyone by mail-to put on your skin and than provides protection at least for some time.)

And now that we have more data, it really does appear that the hydroxycholorquine/azithromycin cocktail combo reduces the severity and duration of covid-19 infection -- provided it's delivered early on enough. 

These encouraging developments, plus an exploding set of citizen-entreprenuers creating their own DIY solutions (especially with masks) give us the first real sense that we are beginning to make real progress against the coronavirus. (DJ-CDC telling HCW (Health Care Workers) to use bandanas when there are no masks is shocking-some industrial towels provide very good protection)

We'll need to hold tight to that good news, as the next few weeks will be quite traumatizing with the expected huge increases in # of infected and deaths. But will well get through this. And it's heartening to see promising developments like PittCoVac and hydroxycholoquine begin to put points on the board for our side.

Also from PP; [url]https://www.peakprosperity.com/dont-let-the-coronavirus-infect-your-relationships/[/url]

[url]https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52194018[/url] Black people-in US- hit much harder than white people by Covid 19 (due to lack of access to proper healthcare ?)

Dr.John Campbell update monday april 6-[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB0U9Fbh0tM[/url];

-South Korea, Italy, Spain, Australia numbers falling-more testing needed to get to the real CFR indigenous Australians hit hard)

-Japan, US numbers going up-still in early stage in Louisiana still church claiming to be the "safest place" spreading disease, criminals asking 200$ for fake tests

-UK and others-more testing needed urgently to get a picture on herd immunity

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fya6Zwxch88[/url] MedCram-Do Finland sauna's, cold/hot waterbaths increase the amount of killer cells in the body-and the immunitysystem ?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2020 at 11:17pm

DJ- The good news from the US looking at [url]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/[/url] is the number of tests-but comparing todays number with yesterdays-less than 8000 tests ??? Paul Beckwith posted a (anti-trump) video claiming the US would soon have more cases than the rest of the world [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxU7axaJxT8[/url], [url]https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/en/news-page/news-nation/coronavirus-wreaks-havoc-in-african-american-neighborhoods[/url]-DJ Less access to healthcare, more healthproblems ?

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUiUH7uaAM8[/url] Peak Prosperity

-Financial aid for those now without income comes with to much red tape and taking to much time-in Italy, the US (etc. DJ-also in NL there is a problem with that. It is damaging the "fight" against Covid19-people need to be sure on housing, food, healthcare-maybe help not in money but in goods, not paying rent/morgage, tax ?)

-Herd immunity in reality is a long way off-Spain may see 15% of people did get covid19 infection, Italy close to 10, but the rest of Europe 3%, Germany 0.42%

-It looks like cats can catch Covid19-develop virusload and may be able to spread-so-to be safe-yes cats can spread covid19

PP also loking at "how to restart the economy in a safe way"-good antibodies test needed but in the UK they found out the present tests still not good enough-better tests may be 1-3 months away. Working with PPE etc works with enough PPE...

PP suggests (again) starting your own garden to grow food...

DJ-There are many problemsand not enough focus. What are meant to be solutions become so complex they create their own problems, income-wise, but also getting control on the spread...in my (DJ) idea only an international effort can get us out of the swamp. Things are slowly getting worse-even in the rich countries. 

In India migrant workers-hundreds of millions of them-are put in camps with hardly any food or water and Covid19 spreading,

In NW Syria, Idlib-run by western backed salafists who are against medical science the outcome looks bleak 

In refugee camps, Africa, Latin America, South Asia Covid19 is "out of control" but the best scenario "islands were there is some care".

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/here-comes-second-wave-wuhan-lockdown-ends-and-tens-thousands-are-about-flee-city[/url]

DJ-Restarting the economy (statewise or on streetlevel-to have something to eat this evening) may complicate the fight against the first wave, bring a "second" wave (with in my opinion is still part of that first wave-the "real" second wave may be another virus, bacterial infection etc-taking its chances when "humans show a weak spot").

As PP repeated "it did not have to be this way"-by inaction we may have opened pandorra's box.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2020 at 10:29pm

DJ-Two trends in corona-news ;

-mild cases=low immunity

-second wave, people tired of lock down, communication problem

[url]https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-middle-east-52189059/coronavirus-israel-s-ultra-orthodox-lockdown-challenge[/url]

In Israel the orthodox community starts getting the message. They are 12% of the population, but 30to 50% of the cases in neighbourhoods like [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bnei_Brak[/url] large families, low income.

Peak Prosperity on reinfections [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEubPR36pzk[/url]

-In Canada unemployment went to 25%-all of them having incomesecurity, in the US FEMA is taking PPE, tests etc from some states without any communication....

-South China Morning Post (Hong Kong)-In a group of 175 patients after hospital 1/3 (most younger than 40) had no/low antibodies against Covid19

(maybe they did not have Covid19 ? maybe body dealt with Tcells, ?)

DJ-The western approach to Covid 19 was;

-1 It will go away by summer=wrong

-2 Herd Immunity=wrong, like other coronavirus reinfection real risk, vaccins may only provide safety for a short term

-3 Non Pharm Interventions-social distancing etc-can not work for years ????

-South Korea "reactivation" of the virus after quarantine ???? (So the virus is not gone, first test may not detect it, later on it strikes back.....)

PP-In february China reported second infections attack the heart-worse than first infection....DJ-reinfections very bad news !

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/health/himalayas-visible-first-time-30-years-india-lockdown-sparks-stunning-drop-pollution[/url]

Of course Dr. John Campbell has his daily update at [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoJkmJazNZQ[/url]

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc6VV7ue4cE[/url] MedCram-hemoglobin story

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2020 at 6:45am

DJ-In his update Dr. John Campbell mentions vitamin D (or the lack of it) as an explanation for up to 4 times more Afro-American deaths in the US than "in whites". A white skin in evolution has the benefit of better in making vitamin D. In the US the winter did undermine vitamin D reserves (most of Europe hardly had any winter...)

The picture I am getting with people getting no/limited antibodies after infection is that finding a working vaccin, reliable testing, herd immunity is taking much longer than expected. In the same time more and more people are no longer willing/able to accept strict limitations on social behaviour or simply are losing an income. [url]https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-52225173[/url]

[url]https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/04/us-will-cover-up-its-own-coronavirus-death-toll.html[/url]

Of course other illnesses have not stopped. [url]file:///home/chronos/u-6a204c8e63e7def0ddbd413be1e353ce67875461/MyFiles/Downloads/SITREP_EVD_DRC_20200331-eng.pdf[/url] Ebola for the moment is under control in Congo-but may return-and "we" may not be able to stop it this time. Many other "normal" diseases may get out of control because Covid19 ask all care. 

[url]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/[/url] has now the possibillity to compare between;

[url]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/[/url] continents. (DJ-For some strange reasons the link does not work.)

[url]https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/geographical-distribution-2019-ncov-cases[/url]

From [url]https://www.euromomo.eu/[/url] ;

European mortality bulletin week 14, 2020

Link to printable version

The latest pooled estimates from the EuroMOMO network show a steep increase in excess all-cause mortality overall for the participating European countries, related to the COVID-19 pandemic.

This overall excess mortality is driven by a very substantial excess mortality in some countries, primarily seen in the age group of 65 years and above, but also in the age group of 15-64 years.

Data from 24 participating countries or regions were included in this week’s pooled analysis of all-cause mortality in Europe.

The number of deaths in the recent weeks should be interpreted with caution as adjustments for delayed registrations may be imprecise. Furthermore, results of pooled analyses may vary depending on countries included in the weekly analyses. Pooled analyses are adjusted for variation between the included countries and for differences in the local delay in reporting.

 

EuroMOMO map


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2020 at 10:38pm

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGKX0twspvE[/url] Dr. John Campbell-Thursday april 9 update;

-WHO (at least) 60 initiatives working on vaccins

-besides colour of skin/vitamin D there is also genetic variation in ACE-receptors making some people more vulnarable for Covid19 than others

-Non Pharmaceutical Interventions only work when most/all work with that (DJ-loking at statistics [url]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/[/url] Belgium has strickter rules than Netherlands-but at cases per million NL is doing better. Strict rules does not mean people live by those rules-in Italy there are reports of "dogs getting exhausted"by the walks people take them for, people going for bread-a few hours later for a newspaper etc. when NPI are not understood or accepted they will not work).

-New Zealand, South Korea, Israel succesfull in slowing down/getting a grip on Covid 19

-Italy, Spain stabilizing-number of deaths going down during April

-UK, France still increasing cases-lockdown will last longer

-In the US New York seeing effects of lock down, lots of testing but since there is no national approach other states see numbers going up.

-Indonesia (half of cases in Jakarta) basicly "out of control"

Of course all based on official numbers, tested cases-lots of people ill, deaths without testing (DJ-The question if our reaction is overblown ? Looking at what we-as humans-are doing to get the numbers down and seeing still-already over 1,5 million cases-no-if we did not go for lockdowns the healthcare system would be gone by now. For the EU we may be in the "best worst case scenario" with widespread infections, number of deaths over 30% higher than normal in this time of year-but the health care system not collapsing. Yes-lots of health care workers (HCW) get infected-over 77 doctors in Italy died-replacing them will take over 10 years-but the health care system survived. On a global scale we are on our way to a "worst-worst-case scenario"-we will not be able to deal with another Ebola outbreak, HIV will explode, polio-vaccinations stopped-Covid19 is uncontrolable....)

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/escobar-who-profits-pandemic[/url] The struggle between the US and China is far from over. China is trying to get its economy going. In the EU (DJ-and Canada etc)  there is some social system providing income to those who lossed their lob. The US seems to be worse (DJ-Also Peak Prosperity, Moon of Alabame etc. reporting that-even Dutch news-so it is not "me" DJ-being "anti-US" or so !) most of the population in debts they will never be able to get rid of.

DJ-Pepe Escobar is describing "an elite" taking their chances to get control over the rest of the population-via "basic income", bio-chips, face-recognition "Big Brother"state. 

On this forum there is lots of good info from intelligent people. Covid19 a blood disease, even Covid19 first cases were noticed on this forum by the end of last year-well done ! Warnings for a "police state" in my opinion are correct. Due to internet "states/security groups and "others" can get much more info from every person in most countries than we would like to give. Worse even-the info they do not get they "profile"-project, fill in. 

That "Big Brother"state is not in the interest of "all" but for the security of a small group wich believes to be above any law-not belong to any state (often have several passports/nationalities). Without a new social contract-balancing-such an outcome could be the real worst case scenario....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2020 at 11:23pm

DJ-Just a look at the statistics [url]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/[/url], Global almost 1.700.000 tested cases, in the US over 500.000 cases-in just a few months....

Peak Prosperity [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIkXmAI6A0o[/url] also looking at the statistics. Here in the Netherlands the Central Bureau for Statistics (CBS) noticed an extra 2000 deaths in the first week of april. DJ-Most of them were in the older people group, we did have NO winter, a late start of the flu-season-there may be some relation with Covid19 (especialy with most carecenters seeing infections) but France now has less deaths in March than they had in 2018 in the same period...statistics can not tell all. DJ-Although [url]https://www.euromomo.eu/[/url] tells a lot).

Skin problems (specialy with younger infected) "frost bite likes red skin signs of Covid19 (?)

Boosting your immunity never a bad thing-elderberry syrip, vitamin C OK! A lot of debate on immunity against (re)infection

Boosting the economy with an extra 2.000.000.000.000 US$ (and maybe 4 trillion extra) is asking for hyperinflation. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation[/url]

DJ-For some realism; [url]https://www.zerohedge.com/health/tokyo-olympics-ceo-suggests-2021-games-might-not-happen-either[/url]

Pandemics take years not months !

Dr. John Campbell [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lssv5zbU4ZM[/url] What people do this (Easter) weekend will effect the numbers for coming month. In the US increased testing will see the 1.000.000 cases within a week. DJ-With also in the US lots of cases, deaths in care centers, jails-would it be a good thing to get more statistics ? Would it be wise to re-organize institutions during an epidemic to reduce cases ? Also people with dark skin may have a vitamin D problem-should one get statistics on ethnic background to provide better care ? 

UK (and many other places) Lockdown is partytime ? Most get the rules !

In India 12.000 "blocks" people are not allowed to leave-food/medicins delivered, Yemen first case (DJ-The millions of deaths will be in "third world"countries-at least during the first wave. In my opinion a second wave-in whatever form (lack of immunity so reinfected by the same corona-virus, infected by a slightly different virus coming back from Brazil, Indonesia or whatever-or maybe a total different disease that "escaped" and did get out of control) is unavoidable. We need to have "reserves" (both in care and finances) to deal with that. We NOW should reorganize our community, economy to "live in another world" !

[url]https://www.rt.com/news/485554-india-zoo-report-coronavirus/[/url] DJ-Although present data suggest limited/no risk-it is something to keep an eye on-also with a second (DJ-unavoidable) wave. 

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_population#Sovereign_states_and_dependencies_by_population[/url]

DJ-There are 15 countries with a population of (close to a) 100 million people, only India, China go over the billion [url]https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/population-by-country/[/url]

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2020 at 12:20pm

DJ-earthquakewarning:

-[url]https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/en/news-page/world/overnight-fifteen-volcanoes-worldwide-erupted[/url]

seismic activity increase in western US (California, Nevada, Idaho) link with volcanic activity ????

-Riots in Brussel-Belgium [url]https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2020/04/11/jongen-van-19-sterft/[/url]

In Belgium one only is allowed to ride a scooter to/from work. A 19 year old boy-on a scooter- tried to escape from the police and was hit by a policecar-died. In Anderlecht lots of people have to stay inside small houses during (now [url]http://www.thebigwobble.org/2020/04/early-heatwave-continues-in-europe-with.html[/url]). 


-[url]https://www.just-style.com/news/timeline-how-coronavirus-is-impacting-the-global-apparel-industry-free-to-read_id138313.aspx[/url]

Companies canceling orders leave textile/fashion industry with unpaid bills and massive job loss.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2020 at 11:30pm

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fH7Fd7aSulA[/url] Dr. John Campbell saterday april 11 update

-In New York april 1-5 8000 people found dead (on the street, in houses) 8x as much as last year

(DJ Every city has a subculture-very limited/no access for healthcare-these "cultures" are a major healthrisk-from HIV to all kind of infections etc.-a second wave will most likely also start from these subcultures)

-problems religious services (whatever belief-follow it from home via the internet), care centers (DJ-Here in NL more and more the rule is becoming HCW have to be able to protect themselves-no protection=no HCW-this is putting more pressure on politics to provide PPE) and prisons (DJ- In a prison near Amsterdam prisoners were allowed to make a sign-"We stay indoors-do you ?")

-For the poor lockdowns are a major problem-no job-no income-no food (not only in Africa, also in rich countries)

-Still people go to beaches, party etc-small groups still major risk

-In Turkey people were told of a 48 curfew two hours in advance-so many rushed to shops just before the curfew...

-Testing a problem in lots of places-India has a major bio-research industry-so why so limited testing ? 

-In Japan people go camping hope to be more safe there...1 test per 2000 people, sick people in public transport

The outlook in general-some area's may have seen the worst, most area's will get much worse (rural US, southern Italy, India, Africa etc DJ-The fascist dictator of Brasil was running around shaking hands in a crowd-Covid19 "no worse than flu" , a repatriation flight KLM from New Zealand to NL was overcrowded-people-some sick-in a 12 hrs flight-no controls getting in or out the plane....

Another aspect of the coronacrisis;

[url]https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/04/how-the-coronavirus-killed-the-shale-industry.html[/url]

U.S. shale oil was marginally profitable above $45/bl. That price is out of reach for the next to three to five years. That is much longer than the shale oil companies will be able to finance themselves. U.S. banks, which have loaned billions to those companies, are already getting ready to seize their assets. The banks will lose most of the $100+ billion they invested in shale companies. 

Canada's expensive oil sand production is also unsustainable under the current prices.

From Peak Prosperity [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i20TvmEclBg[/url] What will the world look like after Covid19 ? 

DJ-The discussion is interesting-what I am missing is "climate change". 

Again I do not like what I am seeing at USGS-earthquake-risk=high ! Volcanic eruptions increase ?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2020 at 12:19am

Dr. John Campbell interview with prof immunology/virology Baghdad University Raghad Alsuhail [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQzTE18WcNI[/url]; Problem often telling people there is a problem, communication is a challenge. Stopping people from drinking bleech as a "cure".  Good testing big problem. Dr. John Campbell two RNA-virus can make one "supervirus" [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_resistance[/url].. Even when people are tested positive/ill isolating them is a problem. 

Prof. Alsuhail hopefull on plasma treatment-now available and working. Vitamin D important also by underlying healthproblems.

[url]https://www.rt.com/news/485077-israel-fitted-masks-protect-beards/[/url] DJ-There is a limit on flexibility with all people-if men want beards (for whatever reason) a mask also covering the beard is better than no mask at all.

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/health/where-world-corona-curve-moment-update[/url] DJ-First wave is near its peak in lots of places, following waves will be detected earlier-but to keep numbers down social distancing will be important for the coming 1,5(DJ to 2) years. (France is expected to move towards even stricter lockdown till middle of may-schools closed till september.)

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/health/who-investigating-nearly-100-recovered-covid-19-patients-tested-positive-again[/url]

DJ-Proberbly tests are OK-virus re-activated....

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/health/covid-19-shutdown-end-globalization-and-planned-obsolescence-enter-multipolarity[/url]

DJ-One way to slow down a virus is to minimize (long distance) transport. This also protects an economy when the delivery chain is broken. 

DJ-There was a suggestion than if the winter in Wuhan was cold enough the virus would not have survived. In my (DJ) idea there is a link with climate change. Even if we get Covid19 under control (and a vaccin may be hard to find) we are not out of the problem.  

We have to change the way we live-and therefor also think twice on where to direct the money. Airlines may become very marginal-most military. Also most economies will be hit hard-shrinkage of up to 30% ? 

In India Muslims are blamed for Covid19 (there was a large Muslim gathering in India March 9-1/3 of all infected in India = Muslim).

[url]https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/en/news-page/world/armies-of-india-and-pakistan-engaging-in-heavy-cross-border-firing[/url]

Also growing unrest in many places because of (strict) lockdowns, unrest in prisons,no visitors, people getting elderly from care centers. DJ-There is a serious risk of Covid19 getting out of control again because of lifting restrictions to early for economic reasons are simply problems in enforcing them. 

DJ-I still do not like the USGS earthquake map-something major ticking...

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[url]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/[/url] DJ-Tomorrow-april 14 we will pass the 2.000.000 tested cases-get to 30.000 tested deaths.?..in reality both numbers could be 10x the "tested" numbers. 

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/health/morgan-stanley-publishes-full-timeline-upcoming-coronavirus-milestones-sees-second[/url] peak in december. 

https://www.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/MS%20coronavirus%20timeline.jpg?itok=ckqsN0pV

DJ-At best q4 2021 US economy at Q2019 level-even that may be optimistic/unrealistic. 

-in the US 40 million people live in poverty, tens of millions did find out they can be out of income, care, security "just like that"-and the US is not the only country-most western countries have this kind of "created equal but not treated equal". Will there be a "hot summer"? (DJ-For US taxes google, starbucks, amazon, netflix etc are Dutch companies-they evade taxes in the US by postbox offices in NL)

-climate change is not over-pandemic risks do not end with an end to Covid19-is it wise to have lots of people/goods flying all over the planet spreading diseases ? Are people willing to work if there is no job security, no access to healthcare-because the rich do not pay tax ? (They pay the politicians and make "democrazy" a farce in wich every $,€ Yen counts instead of every vote)

It is time for a "Corona-revolution"! Again people in the US can make a choice between two Presidents-to-be that are unfit for their job by age, health and ethics-also a lot of other countries have the same problem. 

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiZO2J5oHuQ[/url] Dr. John Campbell update monday april 13

-42% of US population is vitamin D deficient, under Black=82%, Hispanic 70%

-In South Korea 228 of 459 imported cases came from the US (DJ-could get on a plane from the US without proper testing)

-In South Korea also 116 reinfections ? 

-NE China/Russia border closed-28 day lock down-imported cases from Russia

-Australia low number of cases, lockdowns and vitamin D-good immunity/summer works

-Both US and Russia many more cases than reported

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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FluMom View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FluMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2020 at 3:32pm

Heck, 2 years ago I was short on Vit D.  Anyone can be short on any vitamins no matter who they are!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2020 at 12:04am

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9wbb0FN6sM[/url] Peak Prosperity;

-Early action could have prevented all/most of the cases "it did not have to be this way"

-Covid19 attacking T cells in an indirect way-via a proteine also on red bloodcells acting as receptor

-After recovery permanent damage in lungs, liver, heart (DJ-etc)

-UK police violating someones house without PPE because they had a report of "breaking the rules in social gathering"-this is NOT the way to do it. 

Another video on vitamin D [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmDng_uMCnY[/url] DJ-Dr. John Campbell keeps repeating the importance of vitamin D to boost your immune system. Together with social distancing/Non Pharma Interventions-a healthy livestyle-it may be-for the moment-our only defense. 

[url]https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/en/news-page/news-nation/chambers-of-commerce-plus-commerce-and-industry-associations-member-consensus-re-open-businesses-may-3[/url] DJ-In general I think this will be asking for problems-basic story-industry/shops claim covid19 not real-with masks/gloves and doctors activity has to restart may 3 or there will be no activity at all. 

Some places in the US are not effected that much-yet-others may be close to their peak. It is the government role to ensure continuity of most bussiness-and there seems to be the problem.  Most likely lots of work can be done in a safe way-workers have rights of protection and healthcare (certainly when the risks are on the workplace). [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgzFAdYwYLM[/url] MedCram a.o. on when there is room to relax social distancing.

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2020 at 4:38am

DJ-There is an overload of info;

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5yVGmfivAk[/url] Dr. John Campbell on vitamin D and immunity

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/heres-what-reopening-us-economy-could-look[/url]

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/health/visualizing-what-covid-19-does-your-body[/url]

[url]http://www.thebigwobble.org/2020/04/rats-in-major-us-cities-are-resorting.html[/url] ratproblems due to lockdowns

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/personal-finance/covid-19-could-push-extra-half-billion-people-poverty[/url]

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/half-american-workers-would-rather-work-home-forever[/url]

DJ-Things changed long term will be shopping via internet even for groceries=less market for "real shops" but also less trafic

People will work/study from home more often-this can also effect car sales. Holidays in the region-not long distance-so less airtravel.

Poor countries see their healthcare collapse-more refugees-more "aid-for-trade"colonialism. 

Since most governments failed to act in time trusting politicians will go to a new low-new political groups come up ? 

A step-by-step restart of economies has to go hand-in-hand with more and better testing. People getting re-infected on a large scale will be a major shock. 

Russia and China see an increase of cases-we are not out of this problem for at least months. A step forward can bring a step back if cases go up. Rich countries may survive-poor countries only survive in name.

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tabitha111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2020 at 11:53am

Shout out to you Josh for your concise info. I appreciate it.

'A man who does not think and plan long ahead will find trouble right at his door.'
--Confucius

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