Click to Translate to English Click to Translate to French  Click to Translate to Spanish  Click to Translate to German  Click to Translate to Italian  Click to Translate to Japanese  Click to Translate to Chinese Simplified  Click to Translate to Korean  Click to Translate to Arabic  Click to Translate to Russian  Click to Translate to Portuguese  Click to Translate to Myanmar (Burmese)

PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
123456
Forum Home Forum Home > Main Forums > General Discussion
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Schools- your thoughts?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic since 2005; Coronavirus COVID-19 Pandemic Discussion Forum.

Schools- your thoughts?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
Message
AandEM View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: March 06 2020
Location: IN
Status: Offline
Points: 660
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AandEM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Schools- your thoughts?
    Posted: July 06 2020 at 8:36pm

Anyone with first-hand experience with opening schools in-person?  Thoughts on K-12 vs University?  If you were a teacher with at-risk family members, what would you do?  I talked a lot about what was coming, starting in early February.  Now I am getting bombarded with questions from fellow teachers.  So... any advice?

Back to Top
BeachMama View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: January 25 2020
Location: Southwest US
Status: Offline
Points: 2805
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeachMama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2020 at 9:09pm

Hi there! I am a teacher — I took last year off from teaching 4th grade to help out my parents and finish my Master’s program. Now, I am supposed to complete my Master’s with student teaching in the fall. I am at-risk (asthma and scarring in my lungs), and I am terrified about going into the classroom — I live in Arizona, where as far as we know, Ducey seems determined to put kids in the classroom come August 17th.

I am currently in the midst of trying to decide whether to do this, or defer my student teaching (and therefore, my graduation) until I feel safe in the classroom.

This is not an easy decision! :(

Back to Top
AandEM View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: March 06 2020
Location: IN
Status: Offline
Points: 660
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AandEM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2020 at 7:45am

It is such a difficult decision! We have to make this choice without a clear picture of the plan/options. I was going to consider how things were looking in the local area, but at this point, I doubt it matters much with things changing so quickly. Our opening is Aug. 7th. I have so many unanswered questions, like... sick days? Are we teaching both in person and online simultaneously? They mostly say we will address these at our first day staffing. I certainly dont have any answers, but good luck in whatever you decide, and thanks for your reply!

Back to Top
roni3470 View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group
Avatar

Joined: August 30 2006
Location: Colorado
Status: Offline
Points: 2625
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roni3470 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2020 at 12:25pm

I am a Director of a part time school program and former teacher and have two high schoolers.  I think in Colorado we will start on a staggered schedule.  The plan seems to be MT half the kids then W to clean then THF for the other half of the kids.  Or they may decide to have mornings and those kids leave and then afternoons so that no group eating together occurs.  Either way, they are keeping kids in limited groups and likely having teachers move not kids.  This is all fine and dandy until kids get sick, then the teacher and everywhere that teacher has been will all need 14 days off.  how are they going to manage all of this?  its going to be crazy and I assume schools will close again after the first outbreak in each school!

NOW is the Season to Know

that Everything you Do

is Sacred
Back to Top
Usk View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: January 26 2020
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 4625
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Usk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2020 at 1:35pm

This is going to be the most difficult decision for anyone who deals with the education of our kids.  I am a 22 year veteran  science teacher in Biology and Chemistry   I am also in a high risk category.  I did get COV 19 in February  from one of my students      It is really upsetting me that everyone keeps quoting that the kids are not a high risk and are not getting it. Well what happens when we open the doors to schools and everyone is back and we are wrong about  the level of illness in the young. We are seeing a hugh spike in the 20 to 30 range right now because we put them all together even in open air with masks on!!!  During riots and  protests Doesn’t that speak volumes as to what will happen this fall with the 2 nd wave starts on top of flu season.  What am I missing here???

Back to Top
AandEM View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: March 06 2020
Location: IN
Status: Offline
Points: 660
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AandEM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2020 at 1:52pm

I agree. It's a no win situation. It's a very simple question, what happens when teachers or students test positive? There doesn't seem to be an answer. 

Back to Top
Usk View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: January 26 2020
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 4625
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Usk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2020 at 2:06pm

The answer is people including children may die or have disabilities for the rest of their lives .   I still have lung issues. 5 months out   The student I got it from lost a great deal of weight and still gets intestinal issues on a regular basis. Parents may lose their child. For what I ask???. Why not do virtual at home until the vaccine  comes out. It is 8 months away at best.  And  may be sooner

Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 45901
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2020 at 2:42pm





I have doubts that there ever will be a vaccine.....

Maybe teachers should move from class to class, rather than the children,moving on mass after lessons....wearing masks........ Always....

(I'm not a teacher....)

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
AandEM View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: March 06 2020
Location: IN
Status: Offline
Points: 660
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote AandEM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2020 at 2:49pm

Tragic. I'm afraid people wont care until it happens in their own school. 

I read the return plans, and they say very little that's concrete information we can count on. 

Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 45901
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2020 at 3:06pm





Sorry wrong thread.....lol

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
Tabitha111 View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group
Avatar

Joined: January 11 2020
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 8900
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tabitha111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2020 at 5:09pm

Student tests positive, or teacher tests positive, or cafeteria worker, janitor or admin Secretary...school will shut down for two days "deep cleaning" repeat ad nauseam... this is my prediction for the upcoming school year.  Disclosure: I homeschooled my son as a single parent until university. He graduated with a Geography degree as his major, political science as his minor. Married now and runs his own business. I do not have a degree, just 20 years in the US Navy, so it's doable!

'A man who does not think and plan long ahead will find trouble right at his door.'
--Confucius

Back to Top
AandEM View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: March 06 2020
Location: IN
Status: Offline
Points: 660
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote AandEM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2020 at 7:45am

You're right, it will be an endless cycle. I'm wondering how likely it will be for kids to be tested? I expect a number of parents will just ignore symptoms, ignore exposures and pretend everything is normal. 

Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 45901
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2020 at 2:44pm

My daughter was terrified sending my granddaughter to school, 

And we don't have any cases,

So I doubt I would put any of my own at risk.......


Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
Penham View Drop Down
Chief Moderator
Chief Moderator
Avatar
Moderator

Joined: February 09 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 14188
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Penham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2020 at 2:59pm

I was on our school board for 5 years. I would never bring kids back into an environment like this. Our state is one of the ones growing worse. I would not want it on my conscience if a child died.  I already had a co-worker die this week from covid-19. 

Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 45901
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2020 at 3:16pm

I find it interesting that schools supply meals for the children,

Here all kids take their own lunch box,

Teachers look through it to see if it's a balanced meal, IE,no candy etc..... 

Parents gets sent letter if not a balanced meal.....


Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
AandEM View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: March 06 2020
Location: IN
Status: Offline
Points: 660
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AandEM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2020 at 9:14pm

Carbon- that is fascinating to me. I can't even imagine telling an American parent to improve the quality of the lunch they send in for their child. That would not go over well! 

Back to Top
AandEM View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: March 06 2020
Location: IN
Status: Offline
Points: 660
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AandEM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2020 at 9:18pm

Penham- I've been giving that more thought.  The gravity of the choice forced onto the reopening committees is so daunting. Truly life or death decisions must be made without even having a clear picture of the situation, plus immense political pressure. 

Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 45901
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2020 at 9:31pm

[QUOTE=AandEM]

Carbon- that is fascinating to me. I can't even imagine telling an American parent to improve the quality of the lunch they send in for their child. That would not go over well! 

It didn't go down well with my Daughter who is very health conscious....

When  the school Heath person told her that my granddaughters BMI was a bit high......she only 5.....


Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
BeachMama View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: January 25 2020
Location: Southwest US
Status: Offline
Points: 2805
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeachMama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2020 at 10:31am

Trying to figure out my student teaching is hard — trying to figure out my own kids’ education is even harder!

I have a son who will be in 11th grade and a daughter who will be in 8th.  My son has Asperger’s (high-functioning autism), and my daughter has ADHD. Online school did NOT go well for either last quarter.

My son has FINALLY turned the corner on socialization thanks to his theater classes. He auditioned for Theater 3 and made it — he was so excited! But their school (a charter school) is basically penalizing students for going online and taking away their electives. He wouldn’t get Theater. He DESPERATELY wants to go back (he has also developed severe anxiety disorder since school stopped).  

My daughter HATED online school and is begging me to homeschool her if we decide to not have her go in person. She would be happy as a clam, but I know that if my son went back in person later in the year, she’d be miserable at home alone.

I’ve been having anxiety attacks because I can’t figure out what the best solution is. I am so worried that whatever we choose will be the wrong decision. :(  And AZ’s governor is NO help — cases are exploding and all he did was close bars and guns. It’s not impacting numbers at all. 

Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 45901
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2020 at 4:04pm






BeachMama,

My heart goes out to all of you over there,

Whatever you decide for your family will be the best decision,

If I was in your position,i would get together with a few friends, home school a few children who you know and trust, that way your children will have class room experience,you could share the teaching load with other Moms....who no doubt are in your position.....

Take care,

 my very best wishes for all of you......

Carbon20......



Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
Penham View Drop Down
Chief Moderator
Chief Moderator
Avatar
Moderator

Joined: February 09 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 14188
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Penham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2020 at 4:32pm

I just don't think it's a good idea to open the schools. The schools can't even keep head lice or the regular flu under control. Why would we trust them to keep Covid-19 under control? And now with this new virus the kids are getting AFTER the Covid-19 virus is something else again to deal with. 

Back to Top
Tabitha111 View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group
Avatar

Joined: January 11 2020
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 8900
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tabitha111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2020 at 4:36pm

What new virus are kids getting?

'A man who does not think and plan long ahead will find trouble right at his door.'
--Confucius

Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 45901
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2020 at 4:43pm







The Independent: Teachers’ union ‘double-dog dares’ Trump to sit in class during pandemic.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trump-schools-reopening-class-children-coronavirus-pandemic-us-a9611261.html

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
Penham View Drop Down
Chief Moderator
Chief Moderator
Avatar
Moderator

Joined: February 09 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 14188
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2020 at 4:52pm

Originally posted by Tabitha111 Tabitha111 wrote:

What new virus are kids getting?

I don't even know if they have a name for it. They have been reporting it on the national news. The kids will get it AFTER they have Covid-19. And it's pretty bad. Of course not all kids get it, just some. And they don't know why.

Back to Top
Tabitha111 View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group
Avatar

Joined: January 11 2020
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 8900
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tabitha111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2020 at 7:25pm

Oh okay, yes that's MSIS. MULTI SYSTEM INFLAMMATORY SYNDROME, similar to Kawasaki disease. 

'A man who does not think and plan long ahead will find trouble right at his door.'
--Confucius

Back to Top
AandEM View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: March 06 2020
Location: IN
Status: Offline
Points: 660
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AandEM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2020 at 8:22pm

I hate the way that politics has invaded into what is already such a tough decision. I wish there was a crystal ball. I do go back to my thoughts that safety has to come first. Learning gains can always be addressed. I feel like even with my decision to go back (have no choice financially) it's going to be a chaotic year that most likely ends with us back on line anyway. I have 35 students in a class. My friend who is a nurse says we might make it to October. She says health departments aren't going to care what politicians have to say, and that schools will be forced to follow health department directives in spite of Gov. wishes. But, who knows.  

Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 45901
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2020 at 11:02pm
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
WitchMisspelled View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group


Joined: January 20 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 12775
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2020 at 5:55am

AandEM, are you considering using a face shield in addition to a mask in class?  I've told both my SIL and niece, both teachers, both have autoimmune diseases, that maybe the best course of action for them is to use a mask and face shield. 

Back to Top
AandEM View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: March 06 2020
Location: IN
Status: Offline
Points: 660
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AandEM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2020 at 6:19am

Yes, that sounds like a good idea. I'm shopping options. My biggest frustration is, as of right now, masks will be optional for students. 

Back to Top
CRS, DrPH View Drop Down
Expert Level Adviser
Expert Level Adviser


Joined: January 20 2014
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 24505
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2020 at 8:46am

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

AandEM, are you considering using a face shield in addition to a mask in class?  I've told both my SIL and niece, both teachers, both have autoimmune diseases, that maybe the best course of action for them is to use a mask and face shield. 

WM, I'd even consider close-fitting eye goggles.  Eyes are an under-reported entry route for SARS-CoV2 infection.  

If a classroom becomes a swirling atmosphere of SARS-CoV2 droplet nuclei, eye protection is important.  Face shields make a lot of sense. 

Droplets that are < 5 μm in diameter are called droplet nuclei or aerosols. These particles are so small and buoyant that they remain airborne for long periods of time and often float very long distances before evaporating. Transmission occurs when a person inhales droplet nuclei that are suspended in the air.

https://asm.org/Articles/2020/April/COVID-19-Transmission-Dynamics

 

CRS, DrPH
Back to Top
Thorne! View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group


Joined: February 07 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 2695
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Thorne! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2020 at 8:37pm

Trump and DeVos are throwing kids and teachers under the bus.

Link: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/10/trump-schools-backlash-coronavirus-356721?fbclid=IwAR0jvpdX4osKmCZ6_GA_sYEcJh9UI43ShHCL4VooV6c_DBYW0ygbkkfFnio

“Threats are not helpful,” Joy Hofmeister, the Republican state superintendent of public instruction in Oklahoma, told POLITICO on Friday. “We do not need to be schooled on why it’s important to reopen.”



Both Trump and Education Secretary Betsy DeVos have issued federal funding threats to schools that don’t fully reopen. On Friday, Trump went a step further in blasting online learning — which many school districts and colleges are planning to use this fall as an alternative or supplement to in-person instruction.

Back to Top
Thorne! View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group


Joined: February 07 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 2695
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Thorne! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2020 at 8:39pm

I'm a teacher. My wife is a type 1 diabetic. One of the five boys we adopted has serious asthma. And here we are. Most third world countries are doing a better job.

Back to Top
Technophobe View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2014
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 80585
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2020 at 3:11am

Sympathies Thorne!  What a scumbag!

ERCD
Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 45901
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2020 at 4:02am

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/07/10/larry-kudlow-schools-reopening-not-that-hard-sot-vpx-tsr.cnn


What a callous disregard for his fellow citizens.......

I can not believe what I'm seeing and hearing....

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
WitchMisspelled View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group


Joined: January 20 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 12775
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2020 at 8:21am

Originally posted by AandEM AandEM wrote:

Yes, that sounds like a good idea. I'm shopping options. My biggest frustration is, as of right now, masks will be optional for students. 

My neice teaches 4th graders in SC.  She says even if mask are made mandatory it would be impossible to get them to wear them all day.

Her principle has already made noises about scaring the kids by wearing a face shield. My niece said that she had her doctor send a letter that she must do everything she can to avoid contracting covid (she has autoimmune).  No union to call in but she said she'll call in lawyers if she has to.


Back to Top
WitchMisspelled View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group


Joined: January 20 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 12775
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2020 at 8:23am

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

AandEM, are you considering using a face shield in addition to a mask in class?  I've told both my SIL and niece, both teachers, both have autoimmune diseases, that maybe the best course of action for them is to use a mask and face shield. 

WM, I'd even consider close-fitting eye goggles.  Eyes are an under-reported entry route for SARS-CoV2 infection.  

If a classroom becomes a swirling atmosphere of SARS-CoV2 droplet nuclei, eye protection is important.  Face shields make a lot of sense. 

Droplets that are < 5 μm in diameter are called droplet nuclei or aerosols. These particles are so small and buoyant that they remain airborne for long periods of time and often float very long distances before evaporating. Transmission occurs when a person inhales droplet nuclei that are suspended in the air.

https://asm.org/Articles/2020/April/COVID-19-Transmission-Dynamics

 


Thanks for that CRS.  Both wear glasses so it would be hard to get a tight fit with goggles. So it will likely be full face shields.  I'm not too worried about SIL.  She's in Rhode Island and they have a good strong union.  I am worried about my niece who's in South Carolina and has no teacher's union.  But she's already threatened to call in lawyers if her principle gives her too hard a time about it.


Back to Top
Tabitha111 View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group
Avatar

Joined: January 11 2020
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 8900
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tabitha111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2020 at 8:34am

This is a long read, but good info - this is from Northern Virginia.


"As posted by a teacher friend of one of the FB teacher group (6,800 FCPS teachers)


From Joe Morice, daughters in 8th & 10th grade in our Centreville Pyramid:


To our fellow FCPS families, this is it gang, 5 days until the 2 days in school vs. 100% virtual decision. Let’s talk it out, in my traditional mammoth TL/DR form.


Like all of you, I’ve seen my feed become a flood of anxiety and faux expertise. You’ll get no presumption of expertise here. This is how I am looking at and considering this issue and the positions people have taken in my feed and in the hundred or so FCPS discussion groups that have popped up. The lead comments in quotes are taken directly from my feed and those boards. Sometimes I try to rationalize them. Sometimes I’m just punching back at the void.


Full disclosure, we initially chose the 2 days option and are now having serious reservations. As I consider the positions and arguments I see in my feed, these are where my mind goes. Of note, when I started working on this piece at 12:19 PM today the COVID death tally in the United States stood at 133,420.


“My kids want to go back to school.”


I challenge that position. I believe what the kids desire is more abstract. I believe what they want is a return to normalcy. They want their idea of yesterday. And yesterday isn’t on the menu.


“I want my child in school so they can socialize.”


This was the principle reason for our 2 days decision. As I think more on it though, what do we think ‘social’ will look like? There aren’t going to be any lunch table groups, any lockers, any recess games, any study halls, any sitting next to friends, any talking to people in the hallway, any dances. All of that is off the menu. So, when we say that we want the kids to benefit from the social experience, what are we deluding ourselves into thinking in-building socialization will actually look like in the Fall?


“My kid is going to be left behind.”


Left behind who? The entire country is grappling with the same issue, leaving all children in the same quagmire. Who exactly would they be behind? I believe the rhetorical answer to that is “They’ll be behind where they should be,” to which I’ll counter that “where they should be” is a fictional goal post that we as a society have taken as gospel because it maps to standardized tests which are used to grade schools and counties as they chase funding.


“Classrooms are safe.”


At the current distancing guidelines from FCPS middle and high schools would have no more than 12 people (teachers + students) in a classroom (I acknowledge this number may change as FCPS considers the Commonwealth’s 3 ft with a mask vs. 6 ft position, noting that FCPS is all mask regardless of the distance). For the purpose of this discussion we’ll say classes run 45 minutes.


I posed the following question to 40 people today, representing professional and management roles in corporations, government agencies, and military commands: “Would your company or command have a 12 person, 45 minute meeting in a conference room?”


100% of them said no, they would not. These are some of their answers:


“No. Until further notice we are on Zoom.”

“(Our company) doesn’t allow us in (company space).”

“Oh hell no.”

“No absolutely not.”

“Is there a percentage lower than zero?”

“Something of that size would be virtual.”


We do not even consider putting our office employees into the same situation we are contemplating putting our children into. And let’s drive this point home: there are instances here when commanding officers will not put soldiers, ACTUAL SOLDIERS, into the kind of indoor environment we’re contemplating for our children. For me this is as close to a ‘kill shot’ argument as there is in this entire debate. How do we work from home because buildings with recycled air are not safe, because we don’t trust other people to not spread the virus, and then with the same breath send our children into buildings?


“Children only die .0016 of the time.”


First, conceding we’re an increasingly morally bankrupt society, but when did we start talking about children’s lives, or anyone’s lives, like this? This how the villain in movies talks about mortality, usually 10-15 minutes before the good guy kills him.


If you’re in this camp, and I acknowledge that many, many people are, I’m asking you to consider that number from a slightly different angle.


FCPS has 189,000 children. .0016 of that is 302. 302 dead children are the Calvary Hill you’re erecting your argument on. So, let’s agree to do this: stop presenting this as a data point. If this is your argument, I challenge you to have courage equal to your conviction. Go ahead, plant a flag on the internet and say, “Only 302 children will die.” No one will. That’s the kind action on social media that gets you fired from your job. And I trust our social media enclave isn’t so careless and irresponsible with life that it would even, for even a millisecond, enter any of your minds to make such an argument.


Considered another way: You’re presented with a bag with 189,000 $1 bills. You’re told that in the bag are 302 random bills, they look and feel just like all the others, but each one of those bills will kill you. Do you take the money out of the bag?


Same argument, applied to the 12,487 teachers in FCPS (per Wikipedia), using the ‘children’s multiplier’ of .0016 (all of us understanding the adult mortality rate is higher). That’s 20 teachers. That’s the number you’re talking about. It’s very easy to sit behind a keyboard and diminish and dismiss the risk you’re advocating other people assume. Take a breath and think about that.


If you want to advocate for 2 days a week, look, I’m looking for someone to convince me. But please, for the love of God, drop things like this from your argument. Because the people I know who’ve said things like this, I know they’re better people than this. They’re good people under incredible stress who let things slip out as their frustration boils over. So, please do the right thing and move on from this, because one potential outcome is that one day, you’re going to have to stand in front of St. Peter and answer for this, and that’s not going to be conversation you enjoy.


“Hardly any kids get COVID.”


(Deep sigh) Yes, that is statistically true as of this writing. But it is a cherry-picked argument because you’re leaving out an important piece.


One can reasonably argue that, due to the school closures in March, children have had the least EXPOSURE to COVID. In other words, closing schools was the one pandemic mitigation action we took that worked. There can be no discussion of the rate of diagnosis within children without also acknowledging they were among our fastest and most quarantined people. Put another way, you cannot cite the effect without acknowledging the cause.


“The flu kills more people every year.”


(Deep sigh). First of all, no, it doesn’t. Per the CDC, United States flu deaths average 20,000 annually. COVID, when I start writing here today, has killed 133,420 in six months.


And when you mention the flu, do you mean the disease that, if you’re suspected of having it, everyone, literally everyone in the country tells you stay the f- away from other people? You mean the one where parents are pretty sure their kids have it but send them to school anyway because they have a meeting that day, the one that every year causes massive f-ing outbreaks in schools because schools are petri dishes and it causes kids to miss weeks of school and leaves them out of sports and band for a month? That one? Because you’re right - the flu kills people every year. It does, but you’re ignoring the why. It’s because there are people who are a--holes who don’t care about infecting other people. In that regard it’s a perfect comparison to COVID.


“Almost everyone recovers.”


You’re confusing “release from the hospital” and “no longer infected” with “recovered.” I’m fortunate to only know two people who have had COVID. One my age and one my dad’s age. The one my age described it as “absolute hell” and although no longer infected cannot breathe right. The one my dad’s age was in the hospital for 13 weeks, had to have a trach ring put in because she could no longer be on a ventilator, and upon finally getting home and being faced with incalculable time in rehab told my mother, “I wish I had died.”


While I’m making every effort to reach objectivity, on this particular point, you don’t know what the f- you’re talking about.


“If people get sick, they get sick.”


First, you mistyped. What you intended to say was “If OTHER people get sick, they get sick.” And shame on you.


“I’m not going to live my life in fear.”


You already live your life in fear. For your health, your family’s health, your job, your retirement, terrorists, extremists, one political party or the other being in power, the new neighbors, an unexpected home repair, the next sunrise. What you meant to say was, “I’m not prepared to add ANOTHER fear,” and I’ve got news for you: that ship has sailed. It’s too late. There are two kinds of people, and only two: those that admit they’re afraid, and those that are lying to themselves about it.


As to the fear argument, fear is the reason you wait up when your kids stay out late, it’s the reason you tell your kids not to dive in the shallow water, to look both ways before crossing the road. Fear is the respect for the wide world that we teach our children. Except in this instance, for reasons no one has been able to explain to me yet.


“FCPS leadership sucks.”


I will summarize my view of the School Board thusly: if the 12 of you aren’t getting into a room together because it represents a risk, don’t tell me it’s OK for our kids. I understand your arguments, that we need the 2 days option for parents who can’t work from home, kids who don’t have internet or computer access, kids who needs meals from the school system, kids who need extra support to learn, and most tragically for kids who are at greater risk of abuse by being home. All very serious, all very real issues, all heartbreaking. No argument.


But you must first lead by example. Because you’re failing when it comes to optics. All your meetings are online. What our children see is all of you on a Zoom telling them it’s OK for them to be exactly where you aren’t. I understand you’re not PR people, but you really should think about hiring some.


“I talked it over with my kids.”

Let’s put aside for a moment the concept of adults effectively deferring this decision to children, the same children who will continue to stuff things into a full trash can rather than change it out. Yes, those hygienic children.


Listen, my 15 year old daughter wants a sport car, which she’s not getting next year because it would be dangerous to her and to others. Those kinds of decisions are our job. We step in and decide as parents, we don’t let them expose themselves to risks because their still developing and screen addicted brains narrow their understanding of cause and effect.


We as parents and adults serve to make difficult decisions. Sometimes those are in the form of lessons, where we try to steer kids towards the right answer and are willing to let them make a mistake in the hopes of teaching better decision making the next time around. This is not one of those moments. The stakes are too high for that. This is a “the adults are talking” moment. Kids are not mature enough for this moment. That is not an attack on your child. It is a broad statement about all children. It is true of your children and it was true when we were children. We need to be doing that thinking here, and “Johnny wants to see Bobby at school” cannot be the prevailing element in the equation.


“The teachers need to do their job.”

How is it that the same society which abruptly shifted to virtual students only three months ago, and offered glowing endorsements of teachers stating, “we finally understand how difficult your job is,” has now shifted to “screw you, do your job.” There are myriad problems with that position but for the purposes of this piece let’s simply go with, “You’re not looking for a teacher, you’re looking for the babysitter you feel your property tax payment entitles you to.”


“Teachers have a greater chance to being killed by a car than they do of dying from COVID.”


(Eye roll) Per the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS), the U.S. see approximately 36,000 auto fatalities a year. Again, there have been 133,420 COVID deaths in the United States through 12:09 July 10, 2020. So no, they do not have a great chance of being killed in a car accident.


And, if you want to take the actual environment into consideration, the odds of a teacher being killed in a car accident in their classroom, you know, the environment we’re actually talking about, that’s right around 0%.


“If the grocery store workers can be onsite what are the teachers afraid of?”


(Deep breath) A grocery store worker, who absolutely risks exposure, has either six feet of space or a plexiglass shield between them and individual adult customers who can grasp their own mortality whose transactions can be completed in moments, in a 40,000 SF space. 


A teacher is with 11 ‘customers’ who have not an inkling what mortality is, for 45 minutes, in a 675 SF space, six times a day. 


Just stop.


“Teachers are choosing remote because they don’t want to work.”


(Deep breaths) Many teachers are opting to be remote. That is not a vacation. They’re requesting to do their job at a safer site. Just like many, many people who work in buildings with recycled air have done. And likely the building you’re not going into has a newer and better serviced air system than our schools.


Of greater interest to me is the number of teachers choosing the 100% virtual option for their children. The people who spend the most time in the buildings are the same ones electing not to send their children into those buildings. That’s something I pay attention to.


“I wasn’t prepared to be a parent 24/7” and “I just need a break.”


I truly, deeply respect that honesty. Truth be told, both arguments have crossed my mind. Pre COVID, I routinely worked from home 1 – 2 days a week. The solace was nice. When I was in the office, I had an actual office, a room with a door I could close, where I could focus. During the quarantine that hasn’t always been the case. I’ve been frustrated, I’ve been short, I’ve gone to just take a drive and get the hell away for a moment and been disgusted when one of the kids sees me and asks me to come for a ride, robbing me of those minutes of silence. You want to hear silence. I get it. I really, really do.


Here’s another version of that, admittedly extreme. What if one of our kids becomes one of the 302? What’s that silence going to sound like? What if you have one of those matted frames where you add the kid’s school picture every year? What if you don’t get to finish the pictures?


“What does your gut tell you to do?”


Shawn and I have talked ad infinitum about all of these and other points. Two days ago, at mid-discussion I said, “Stop, right now, gut answer, what is it,” and we both said, “virtual.”


A lot of the arguments I hear people making for the 2 days sound like we’re trying to talk ourselves into ignoring our instincts, they are almost exclusively, “We’re doing 2 days, but…”. There’s a fantastic book by Gavin de Becker, The Gift of Fear, which I’ll minimize for you thusly: your gut instinct is a hardwired part of your brain and you should listen to it. In the introduction he talks about elevators, and how, of all living things, humans are the only ones that would voluntarily get into a soundproof steel box with a potential predator just so they could skip a flight of stairs.


I keep thinking that the 2 days option is the soundproof steel box. I welcome, damn, beg, anyone to convince me otherwise.


At the time I started writing at 12:09 PM, 133,420 Americans had died from COVID. Upon completing this draft at 7:04 PM, that number rose to 133,940.


520 Americans died of COVID while I was working on this. In seven hours.


The length of a school day."


'A man who does not think and plan long ahead will find trouble right at his door.'
--Confucius

Back to Top
AandEM View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: March 06 2020
Location: IN
Status: Offline
Points: 660
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote AandEM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2020 at 10:11am

I think those were very valid points. I kept telling everyone during the early quarantine,  this is the easy part. Decisions are made for us. This new part in infinity  harder. Teaching in a classroom isn't comparable, risk wise, to many other jobs. Certainly not as risky as work on COVID wards, but much riskier than simply in an office with adults.  The main difference is we will have little control over our own work environments. I've been sacrificing a lot to avoid risks. I've attended a few events, like son's outdoor graduation, because the risk vs. reward checks out. We have to consider the job of teaching a completely different way. Many hours of risk x 5 days/week. It changes the result for me, but I have to keep my job. It's all just so sad and frustrating. 

Back to Top
Little House View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member


Joined: February 13 2020
Location: Ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 1325
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Little House Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2020 at 10:20am

Thank you Tabitha, there was a lot of great info in that piece.  I don’t have to decide what environment my kids will be in next year.  They have been homeschooled their whole lives and will be next year as well, but that doesn’t mean that they stay home all the time.  Instead of one decision, we have many.  Do I allow the in-person Chemistry class?  How about the theater group?  The Symphony? Sports? Volunteering? Craft Club?  Reading Club?  Music lessons?  Before the lockdowns started this spring, my family (collectively) saw over 1,000 people a week.  That number obviously has to go down, but by how much? This piece gave me a lot to think about.

Back to Top
Tabitha111 View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group
Avatar

Joined: January 11 2020
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 8900
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tabitha111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2020 at 12:40pm

Little House- I can relate since I homeschooled my son from K-to college...and his senior year we took a trip to Europe for a month! Plus, folks don't  understand the amount of people we interact with. I had one parent tell me I was turning my son into a social misfit by homeschooling him!

I always get the last laugh though..because every SINGLE DAY there was something going on we can attend or go to. I had to put my foot down at times to stay home and get some book work done!

We belonged to a huge homeschooling group and he has life-long friends he made there.
He is a "class clown" type of guy, so always popular and yes, he got into his fair share of mischief, esp in the high school years.

But social misfit...ahhh...nope...In fact when he graduated from college, his photo ended up on the front page of the newspaper because of his charisma...yes...he said "mom, the guy came up and asked my name and I just grabbed my diploma and took off my hat and held them in the air and posed, he took my photo and I knew I'd end up in the paper"

I feel for the parents homeschooling now during this, because they will miss out on a lot.

'A man who does not think and plan long ahead will find trouble right at his door.'
--Confucius

Back to Top
20Rachel View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member
Avatar

Joined: January 26 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 90
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 20Rachel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2020 at 6:08pm

I would keep kids home for this school year.  One year at home could be the difference between life and death.  Hopefully iwithin the year we will know more about Covid a, treatments, vaccines .  Your children may be unhappy at home but at keast they will be alive.     Do not let politics play a part into your decision.  Your children deserve better.  Children need you to make the nest decision.  It may be harder for both parents and children but again one more year could determine the way they live the rest of their luves.  I wish you all the very best and mych live for your families!

Back to Top
Usk View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: January 26 2020
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 4625
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Usk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2020 at 6:57pm
Back to Top
BeachMama View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: January 25 2020
Location: Southwest US
Status: Offline
Points: 2805
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeachMama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2020 at 6:58pm

My husband and I talked today, and we made the difficult decision of keeping our kids online for the fall. Our son has been suffering from extremely bad anxiety due to being home from school due to his Asperger’s — and their school freaking SUCKS so he’ll lose his Theater 3 elective. They’re pushing for an entirely normal approach to school and their in person program won’t even involve any type of social distancing, no masks, still having 30 kids in a classroom, etc. 

Despite that, we feel that the SAFEST place for them to be is at home. I’m going to give them the option of doing the school’s virtual program, or having a full-on homeschool approach. Whatever they want of the two, they’ll get — if it will keep them happy and engaged, and LEARNING!

Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 45901
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2020 at 9:10pm
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 45901
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2020 at 2:54pm
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down