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Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic since 2005; Coronavirus COVID-19 Pandemic Discussion Forum.

Schools- your thoughts?

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AandEM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AandEM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2021 at 7:48pm

Roni3470, I hope its going well for you!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roni3470 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2021 at 11:44am

I get my second dose of Phizer on Wednesday so I will update everyone on how I do.  No side effects at all with first dose.  Also, we have been open 2 days a week with 35 kids at my school since January and we have had zero cases at school.  Smaller population but still glad we have been safe so far!

NOW is the Season to Know

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AandEM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2021 at 6:43pm

After 10+ hours on the website trying to get an appointment, I am happy to report i have the Johnson and Johnson vaccine. So far, no symptoms. I am thankful .

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AandEM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2021 at 3:30pm

Variant? I am two weeks from my Johnson and Johnson shot. 12 students and two staff (both 1 week after first shot) were positive in 4 days. There has been nothing like this all school year. 4 were in my classroom. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Usk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2021 at 7:31pm

Yes i bet you are right. I am virtual teacher but our school which opened two weeks ago had a super spreader event on our sports team. 2 are hospitalized an 9 teachers are very sick goig into spring break. The student d infected with 10 of his teammates and 7 teachers

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AandEM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2021 at 5:49am

Wow. Students are hospitalized?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2021 at 4:20pm
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Usk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2021 at 3:27pm

Yes 4 are in the hospital and 2 teachers who were vaccinated have mild to moderate symptoms.  Our high was not the only one. There is another outbreak at another high school not far from us

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AandEM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2021 at 6:21pm

What a nightmare. We are coming off of spring break, families traveled all over. One grade level has been put online for the upcoming week. This is the first time this has happened all school year. Im told over 20 positives in one grade level. The rest are open as usual. 

Well wishes sent your way, Usk.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Usk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2021 at 6:47pm

Thank you for your well wishes. Hang in their yourself !! The health department closed 3 schools due outbreaks starting when we get back from spring break due toSpecial cleaning needs to be Done 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeachMama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2021 at 10:43am

Wow! Spread like that among students sounds like the B.1.1.7 variant (the UK variant). That’s crazy!  I hope and pray that you stay well until your shot reaches full effectiveness. I’m more than two weeks out from my second dose of Moderna, and I can tell you that the peace of mind I have as I sit my my mentor teachers class of 29 students is AMAZING. It was totally worth the side effects after the second shot.  I hope your Johnson & Johnson jab goes well! 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2021 at 4:04pm








Lots of schools going into lockdown here  (Sydney/Brisbane Australia')as more children become infected.......with Delta...

Beware USA think your kids are heading back to school....

Take care all 😷😉

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AandEM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2021 at 7:08pm

Yes, students are scheduled to start back next week. Masks optional. But, as a teacher I cant request that my students wear them. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote ME163 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2021 at 9:02pm

My school is allowing me to teach from home.  I will get my full salary, thank god.  I do not need to show up for any events or meetings.  



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2021 at 9:28pm

I'm a certified STEM instructor in Arizona, grades 6-12.  I mostly focus upon substitute teaching, but because our state is in such a mess with right-wing politics, I'm turning down all assignments.  Pity, as I love working with the kids. 

https://www.12news.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/ducey-takes-on-covid-19-protocols-in-arizona-schools/75-9f712be1-49f2-45fb-928d-928d17d39d61

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2021 at 9:29pm

Originally posted by carbon20 carbon20 wrote:

Lots of schools going into lockdown here  (Sydney/Brisbane Australia')as more children become infected.......with Delta...

Beware USA think your kids are heading back to school....

Take care all 😷😉

You take care as well!  Oz is near to my heart, it pains me to learn of your troubles.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2021 at 9:47pm

Sheer incompetence from the NSW government......

Not Quick or hard enough with the lockdowns......

Take care all 😷😉

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2021 at 9:58pm

In some parts of Germany schools will start this week-though with masks...Still; [url]https://globalnews.ca/video/8078692/experts-warn-delta-variant-wave-will-hit-unvaccinated-kids[/url] or https://globalnews.ca/video/8078692/experts-warn-delta-variant-wave-will-hit-unvaccinated-kids 

[url]https://twitter.com/GosiaGasperoPhD[/url] or https://twitter.com/GosiaGasperoPhD in Alberta-Canada fighting against denial-"politics" that is killing people-will kill lots of children...statistics for children with Delta going up all around the globe.

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2021 at 11:28pm
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2021 at 1:01am

Sydney Morning Herald: Shock and disappointment: Regions left confused after Pfizer doses diverted.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/shock-and-disappointment-regions-left-confused-after-pfizer-doses-diverted-20210731-p58enk.html


Carbon 20: something is going on with this Delta......

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote AandEM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2021 at 7:55pm

I start back tomorrow. The only thing different than "normal" is that we are supposed to keep kids 3ft apart. Masks optional.Yet, we are starting the year with an assembly of all grades. 🤦‍♀️  It is all surreal. My students are too young to be vaccinated. The county and surrounding counties are red, with a huge spike in cases before school has even started. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2021 at 10:58pm

Good interview with Dr. Deepti Gurdasani -part 2- [url]https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/08/03/gurd-a03.html[/url] or https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/08/03/gurd-a03.htmlUnless young people know that they do face a very real risk by getting infected, why should they want to get vaccinated? They’ve been told constantly that they don’t get severely ill. They think it’s going to be something like the flu, so they decide they might just weather it. In this regard, too, the public messaging has been unclear and has not prioritized young people explaining why it’s so important and advantageous for them to get vaccinated.

-

It has become very evident over the past year that children play a massive role in [the spread of] infection. I mean, there’s been a lot of misinformation and disinformation around this and minimization of the role of children in infection. We’ve heard that children are less susceptible to infection, or they’re less likely to transmit, or even they are not an important part of community transmission. This is absolutely not true!

I think, regardless of susceptibility and transmissibility, we need to remember that children come in contact with many more people than adults do, given they attend schools in person. There are recent studies, including ones from the CDC, that show that when you correct for the fact that most infections in children or many infections in children are asymptomatic, they’re not detected because children may not come forward for testing because they don’t feel unwell, when you correct for that in these studies, you find children are equally susceptible to adults and equally likely to transmit. But the fact that they have many more contacts makes them a critical route of transmission back into the community. These studies also demonstrated that parents of children are at high risk of infection and requiring hospitalization.

These studies have been conducted across the world and they all show the same thing. But these same studies have also shown that if you put mitigations in classrooms, multi-layered mitigations, you can actually reduce the risk, not just to the children, but to their parents. This is a problem we know exists in different parts of the world and it is solvable. I think the big question is [that] despite all this knowledge, which has been available for some time, many countries in the West have done so little to address this issue. Why? While they say they prioritize reducing educational disruption, they’ve actually done very little to reduce it. The way to reduce educational disruption, which has sadly impacted many children across the globe, is not to deny that they contribute to transmission, which is an evidence-based fact, but rather to address it by making schools safer with mitigations that work.

Sadly, it’s the very scientists and politicians that have minimized the role of children in transmission who say that they want to prioritize education, but then expect children to go into schools without any mitigations, which almost always leads to high levels of transmission and school closures.

And this is even more [the case] with the variants. We saw with the Alpha and Delta variants that transmission began in school-aged children and spread back into the communities. More transmissible variants spread very rapidly through schools and back into the communities. Unless we address that with mitigation at schools and with vaccination of children, unfortunately, we are never going to get on top of this pandemic. And this is something that governments need to understand and scientists need to understand.

BM: Is there any data that the Delta variant is more dangerous to young children than previous strains? There is data emerging from Indonesia, Brazil and even in the US and UK that they’re seeing higher rates of hospitalizations and deaths.

DG: Yeah. Overall, it looks like the Delta variant is most severe. We know from the UK and Scotland data that it is two times more likely [for patients] to be hospitalized with the Delta. There’s recent data from Canada that suggests that it might be more deadly as well. But whether this is worse for certain age groups is unclear. But frontline experience seems to suggest that this may be the case. 

We are definitely hearing from pediatricians and critical care doctors from different parts of the world, including the US, suggesting that the adolescents that they’re seeing ill in this particular wave are requiring more intensive care, [are] more likely to get ventilated than those that they’ve seen in previous waves. And I think we need to listen to those frontline experiences as more evidence accumulates. We heard similar from Singapore, similar from India when Delta was spreading there. And I think we need to be very cautious about exposing children to this. In the UK we’ve seen hospitalizations increase far more rapidly than we have in previous waves. Currently we have about 50 to 60 children being hospitalized per day, which is quite significant.

DJ So children get infected, spread the virus-as much as adults-they so far did often not get as ill as adults-but Delta is changing that ! Ventilation is often a problem in old schools...but also some new schools have a problem...

Since children are NOT vaccinated school reopening may bring an explosion of cases...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2021 at 2:05pm

I feel so strongly that children should NOT be vaccinated. No matter how much adults want to scare them into submission, the best form of protection from Covid is natural immunity and so what if the odd child gets a severe case - that happens with flu too and yet we don't mandate flu jabs to kids. The fact remains that the VAST MAJORITY of children get a mild illness. We mustn't force children to get a vaccine for the benefit of a few old crusties who are scared. 

Seriously history will judge us severely if we proceed with this madness. Leave the children alone.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2021 at 5:10pm

Speaking as a crustie, I think a couple of jabs to be rather inconsequential - compared to death.  Also severe disease is rare in children, but not unknown.


Much more to the point though, the more unvaccinated people there are, the more new variants are able to emerge.  The youth of today age, and eventually they will become crusties themselves.  As the disease becomes endemic and those new variants emerge (all of which could be avoided with more vaccinations, of more age groups) the problems pile up for those future old-folk.  The chances are, they will find themselves faced with a far nastier disease than we have all faced over the past year and a decreased life-span as a result.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2021 at 5:53pm

Problem is, we can't be sure yet how long that immunity lasts.  I've seen figures as low as 6-8 months.  I would not be willing to risk long Covid, the complications that I am pretty sure are coming in 2-20 years, the lung damage that is being seen universally and/or brain/neurological damage that is being seen all too frequently after the initial illness, for the sake of 8 months of immunity.  Nor 8 years.  And I wouldn't let my children risk it either.


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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2021 at 11:34pm

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

Speaking as a crustie, I think a couple of jabs to be rather inconsequential - compared to death.  Also severe disease is rare in children, but not unknown.


Much more to the point though, the more unvaccinated people there are, the more new variants are able to emerge.  The youth of today age, and eventually they will become crusties themselves.  As the disease becomes endemic and those new variants emerge (all of which could be avoided with more vaccinations, of more age groups) the problems pile up for those future old-folk.  The chances are, they will find themselves faced with a far nastier disease than we have all faced over the past year and a decreased life-span as a result.

I disagree with you on this Techno. The unvaccinated aren't the problem. The vaccines do not stop people from contracting Covid, they simply make it more likely that someone will be asymptomatic and you can bet your last dollar that right now there are thousands of fully vaccinated people asymtomatic cases walking around transmitting the virus to all and sundry. Where the vaccines create obstacles to Covid, the vaccinated person with Covid provides the perfect petri dish for the virus to mutate in, to circumvent those obstacles and to enable the virus to become more effective. 

Some scientists even believe that it is the "vaccines" that are driving the evolution of the variants. 

https://trialsitenews.com/why-is-the-ongoing-mass-vaccination-experiment-driving-a-rapid-evolutionary-response-of-sars-cov-2/

Be under no illusions. The one and only benefit to having a covid vaccine is to lessen the recipient's chance of developing a serious case that may result in hospital admission and / or death. There is no benefit to society as a whole in having one despite what the British Government has told you. If anything, the vaccines allows Covid to spread by stealth more easily. Giving them to children will serve only to ease the concerns of frightened older people, even though it will give them a false sense of security. 

I'm all for vaccines that actually work and actually stop someone getting an illness eg. measles. But these covid "vaccines" are not technically vaccines. They are medical treatments and, under normal circumstances, the majority of doctors do not support giving medical treatments to someone who doesn't need it. We wouldn't put a plaster cast on a boy's arm just in case he's about to break it. We wait until he needs the cast. I'm not going to take a paracetamol now just in case I get a headache later on this evening. It would be madness. 

There seems to be a hysterical madness to all this. I've no doubt that some people have narrowly avoided death from Covid and, in the process, have witnessed appalling scenes, but this is the minority. The vast majority don't get ill enough to need that sort of medical intervention. I have a number of overseas relatives who have had Covid and it's been fine. I rail against manipulation by fear, it's morally questionable and generally misleading. I fully appreciate that the majority of people on this site are older, but still, we have to have a sense of perspective. We have to remember that the fatality rate of this disease in very small. In children, Dr John Campbell said this week that it's 2 children in a million. That's 0.0002%. Miniscule by anyone's standards.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2021 at 5:11am

You are right KiwiMum where the asymptomatic carriers post vaccination are concerned.  But there are asymptomatic carriers who are not masked too - this includes lots of children.

You are right about the driven mutations too.  Once again this is not confined to vaccinated populations, but it can be accelerated by it.

Which means that the only effective way to deal with the virus is to eliminate it.  Otherwise us vaccinated crusties will become the harbingers of death when we unknowingly carry the virus to the unvaccinated. 

NewZealand had it right; eliminating the virus is the only way and they (you) took the better route to elimination by keeping it out and having a good test-and-trace, border closures, quarrantine facilities and assistance for the quarrantining.  Those of us with governments with less foresight, will have to rely on vaccines (and all the rest) if we are to have a hope of getting rid of the virus.  (Highly unlikely now - thanks Boris!  It is far harder to remove it than to keep it out in the first place.)


The bottom line is that the disease will now hang around forever and make the futures of all our children shorter.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2021 at 1:08pm

Techno, I'm hopeful that for the majority of children they will catch it, have a mild illness and develop natural immunity. Look at the Spanish Flu - it's still circulating today and we are all fine with it and it's one of the milder flus that we deal with each year. Hopefully the children of today will grow up to be the adults of tomorrow for whom Covid is a mild inconvenience. 

So I say don't vaccinate children UNLESS they are particularly vulnerable, but for the majority just leave them alone. 

As for the whole mask debate, I do think we all need to assess our own personal risks and requirements and take appropriate steps to protect ourselves, and for some people that will mean they get vaccinated, wear masks, socially distance etc, but for others, it won't. We need to stop blaming others and start taking responsibility for ourselves. I have 2 cousins in the UK who are extremely vulnerable and still full on shielding, and I have a cousin in the Netherlands who is an advanced healer and is using meditation to boost her immune system - and it's working. In the last 3 months she's been to Puerto Rico, Mexico, Holland and is currently in Italy. She's travelling everywhere and is just fine. She's not vaccinated.

"Once you've decided that something's absolutely true, you've closed your mind on it, and a closed mind doesn't go anywhere. Question everything. That's what education's all about." ~ David Eddings
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I am very lucky. Get to teach from home again.   At full salary.    I hope none of you have to face death in the face like we did.   Jill and Becky are home schooling their kids with help from us.  We are all blending in well.  Neil is working with ME and Vicki is playing with the dog and two cats , ME has his pet rats and everyone makes sure that the cats don't get downstairs.   Neil cut a ton of firewood for the family and ME  paid for 5000 dolllars worth of natural gas for the stoves.   We have wind and solar also as well as power backups.     We are going to get some fruit and veggies from an organic COOP.  We canned at least 500 bottles of fruit and veggies this past month. We will do more.   

Things are going as well as we can expect.  

Jill and Neil, Becky and partner,  ME 163 and VICKI 


Thanks for your help 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2021 at 7:31pm

Go get 'em, ME & Company!

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-lungs-scarring-smokers-lungs/#app


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Post-COVID lungs worse than the worst smokers' lungs, surgeon says

/ CBS News

A Texas trauma surgeon says it's rare that X-rays from any of her COVID-19 patients come back without dense scarring. Dr. Brittany Bankhead-Kendall tweeted, "Post-COVID lungs look worse than any type of terrible smoker's lung we've ever seen. And they collapse. And they clot off. And the shortness of breath lingers on... & on... & on."

"Everyone's just so worried about the mortality thing and that's terrible and it's awful," she told CBS Dallas-Fort Worth. "But man, for all the survivors and the people who have tested positive this is — it's going to be a problem."

Bankhead-Kendall, an assistant professor of surgery with Texas Tech University, in Lubbock, has treated thousands of patients since the pandemic began in March.

texas-tech-university-trauma-surgeon-dr-brittany-bankhead-kendall.jpg
Lubbock, Texas trauma surgeon Dr. Brittany Bankhead-Kendall. CBS DALLAS

She says patients who've had COVID-19 symptoms show a severe chest X-ray every time, and those who were asymptomatic show a severe chest X-ray 70% to 80% of the time.

"There are still people who say 'I'm fine. I don't have any issues,' and you pull up their chest X-ray and they absolutely have a bad chest X-ray," she said.

In X-ray photos of a normal lung, a smoker's lung and a COVID-19 lung that Bankhead-Kendall shared with CBS Dallas, the healthy lungs are clean with a lot of black, which is mainly air. In the smoker's lung, white lines are indicative of scarring and congestion, while the COVID lung is filled with white.

"You'll either see a lot of that white, dense scarring or you'll see it throughout the entire lung. Even if you're not feeling problems now, the fact that that's on your chest X-ray — it sure is indicative of you possibly having problems later on," she said.

normal-smokers-covid-chest-x-rays.jpg
X-rays of a normal lung, a smoker's lung and a COVID patient's lung.  DR. BRITTANY BANKHEAD-KENDALL VIA CBS DALLAS

Dr. Amesh Adalja, an infectious disease expert and senior scholar at Johns Hopkins University Bloomberg School of Public Health, told CBSN that some patients with severe COVID-19 could feel the impact for years to come.

"When someone recovers from pneumonia, whether it's a bacterial pneumonia or a viral pneumonia, it's going to take some time for their chest X-rays to improve. Chest X-rays lag your clinical improvement. So you may be better, but your chest X-ray still looks bad," he said. "And we know that people with COVID-19 can get severe pneumonia, and some of that pneumonia will lead to damage to the lungs that will take time to heal. And some of it may be permanent."

He said the potential long-term health consequences are another reason people should take warnings about the disease seriously. 

"It's not something you can blow off. This isn't something you want to have. Because even if you survive, you still may be left with some severe complications that make it very hard for you to go back to your baseline functioning."

Bankhead-Kendall said it's important that if you're experiencing shortness of breath after your COVID-19 goes away, you stay in touch with your primary care doctor.

She also points out, "There is no long-term implication of a vaccine that could ever be as bad as the long-term implications of COVID."

First published on January 14, 2021 / 8:08 AM

© 2021 CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2021 at 7:44pm

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-brain-coronavirus-symptom-stroke-anxiety-depression

COVID-19 can affect the brain. New clues hint at how

Researchers are sifting through symptoms to figure out what the virus does to the brain

scan of human brain

COVID-19 can come with brain-related problems, but just how the virus exerts its effects isn’t clear.


ROXANA WEGNER/MOMENT/GETTY IMAGES


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By Laura Sanders


APRIL 27, 2021 AT 6:00 AM


For more than a year now, scientists have been racing to understand how the mysterious new virus that causes COVID-19 damages not only our bodies, but also our brains.


Early in the pandemic, some infected people noticed a curious symptom: the loss of smell. Reports of other brain-related symptoms followed: headaches, confusion, hallucinations and delirium. Some infections were accompanied by depression, anxiety and sleep problems.


Recent studies suggest that leaky blood vessels and inflammation are somehow involved in these symptoms. But many basic questions remain unanswered about the virus, which has infected more than 145 million people worldwide. Researchers are still trying to figure out how many people experience these psychiatric or neurological problems, who is most at risk, and how long such symptoms might last. And details remain unclear about how the pandemic-causing virus, called SARS-CoV-2, exerts its effects.


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“We still haven’t established what this virus does in the brain,” says Elyse Singer, a neurologist at the University of California, Los Angeles. There are probably many answers, she says. “It’s going to take us years to tease this apart.”


Getting the numbers

For now, some scientists are focusing on the basics, including how many people experience these sorts of brain-related problems after COVID-19.


A recent study of electronic health records reported an alarming answer: In the six months after an infection, one in three people had experienced a psychiatric or neurological diagnosis. That result, published April 6 in Lancet Psychiatry, came from the health records of more than 236,000 COVID-19 survivors. Researchers counted diagnoses of 14 disorders, ranging from mental illnesses such as anxiety or depression to neurological events such as strokes or brain bleeds, in the six months after COVID-19 infection.


“We didn’t expect it to be such a high number,” says study coauthor Maxime Taquet of the University of Oxford in England. One in three “might sound scary,” he says. But it’s not clear whether the virus itself causes these disorders directly.


The vast majority of those diagnoses were depression and anxiety, “disorders that are extremely common in the general population already,” points out Jonathan Rogers, a psychiatrist at University College London. What’s more, depression and anxiety are on the rise among everyone during the pandemic, not just people infected with the virus.


Mental health disorders are “extremely important things to address,” says Allison Navis, a neurologist at the post-COVID clinic at Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City. “But they’re very different than a stroke or dementia,” she says.


About 1 in 50 people with COVID-19 had a stroke, Taquet and colleagues found. Among people with severe infections that came with delirium or other altered mental states, though, the incidence was much higher — 1 in 11 had strokes.


scans of brains with strokes

Serious neurological damage, such as these strokes caused by blocked blood vessels, turn up in people with COVID-19.

K. THAKUR ET AL/BRAIN 2021

Taquet’s study comes with caveats. It was a look back at diagnosis codes, often entered by hurried clinicians. Those aren’t always reliable. And the study finds a relationship, but can’t conclude that COVID-19 caused any of the diagnoses. Still, the results hint at how COVID-19 affects the brain. 


Blood vessels scrutinized

Early on in the pandemic, the loss of smell suggested that the virus might be able to attack nerve cells directly. Perhaps SARS-CoV-2 could breach the skull by climbing along the olfactory nerve, which carries smells from the nose directly to the brain, some researchers thought.


That frightening scenario doesn’t seem to happen much. Most studies so far have failed to turn up much virus in the brain, if any, says Avindra Nath, a neurologist who studies central nervous system infections at the National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, Md. Nath and his colleagues expected to see signs of the virus in brains of people with COVID-19 but didn’t find it. “I kept telling our folks, ‘Let’s go look again,’” Nath says.  


That absence suggests that the virus is affecting the brain in other ways, possibly involving blood vessels. So Nath and his team scanned blood vessels in post-mortem brains of people who had been infected with the virus with an MRI machine so powerful that it’s not approved for clinical use in living people. “We were able to look at the blood vessels in a way that nobody could,” he says.


Damage abounded, the team reported February 4 in the New England Journal of Medicine. Small clots sat in blood vessels. The walls of some vessels were unusually thick and inflamed. And blood was leaking out of the vessels into the surrounding brain tissue. “You can see all three things happening at the same time,” Nath says.


Those results suggest that clots, inflamed linings and leaks in the barriers that normally keep blood and other harmful substances out of the brain may all contribute to COVID-related brain damage.


left: inflamed immune cells around blood vessel. right: cells affected by COVID-19

Signs of damage in the brains of people with COVID-19 involve inflammation, including these immune cells around a blood vessel (left), and changes in cells (right) that might have resulted from low oxygen.

J. LOU ET AL/FREE NEUROPATHOLOGY 2021

But several unknowns prevent any definite conclusions about how these damaged blood vessels relate to people’s symptoms or outcomes. There’s not much clinical information available about the people in Nath’s study. Some likely died from causes other than COVID-19, and no one knows how the virus would have affected them had they not died.


Inflamed body and brain

Inflammation in the body can cause trouble in the brain, too, says Maura Boldrini, a psychiatrist at Columbia University in New York. Inflammatory signals released after injury can change the way the brain makes and uses chemical signaling molecules, called neurotransmitters, that help nerve cells communicate. Key communication molecules such as serotonin, norepinephrine and dopamine can get scrambled when there’s lots of inflammation.


Neural messages can get interrupted in people who suffer traumatic brain injuries, for example; researchers have found a relationship between inflammation and mental illness in football players and others who experienced hits to the head.


Similar evidence comes from people with depression, says Emily Troyer, a psychiatrist at the University of California, San Diego. Some people with depression have high levels of inflammation, studies have found. “We don’t actually know that that’s going on in COVID,” she cautions. “We just know that COVID causes inflammation, and inflammation has the potential to disrupt neurotransmission, particularly in the case of depression.”


See all our coverage of the coronavirus outbreak

Among the cells that release inflammatory proteins in the brain are microglia, the brain’s version of the body’s disease-fighting immune system. Microglia may also be involved in the brain’s response to COVID-19. Microglia primed for action were found in about 43 percent of 184 COVID-19 patients, Singer and others reported in a review published February 4 in Free Neuropathology. Similar results come from a series of autopsies of COVID-19 patients’ brains; 34 of 41 brains contained activated microglia, researchers from Columbia University Irving Medical Center and New York Presbyterian Hospital reported April 15 in Brain.


With these findings, it’s not clear that SARS-CoV-2 affects people’s brains differently from other viruses, says Navis. In her post–COVID-19 clinic at Mount Sinai, she sees patients with fatigue, headaches, numbness and dizziness — symptoms that are known to follow other viral infections, too. “I’m hesitant to say this is unique to COVID,” Navis says. “We’re just not used to seeing so many people getting one specific infection, or knowing what the viral infection is.”


Teasing apart all the ways the brain can suffer amid this pandemic, and how that affects any given person, is impossible. Depression and anxiety are on the rise, surveys suggest. That rise might be especially sharp in people who endured stressful diagnoses, illnesses and isolation.


clotting protein in postmortem brain from person with COVID-19

In a postmortem brain from a person with COVID-19, a clotting protein called fibrinogen (red) indicates that the blood vessels are damaged and leaky.

AVINDRA NATH

Just being in an intensive care unit can lead to confusion. Delirium affected 606 of 821 people — 74 percent — while patients were in intensive care units for respiratory failure and other serious emergencies, a 2013 study found. Post-traumatic stress disorder afflicted about a third of people who had been seriously sick with COVID-19 (SN: 3/12/21).


More specific aspects of treatment matter too. COVID-19 patients who spent long periods of time on their stomachs might have lingering nerve pain, not because the virus attacked the nerve, but because the prone position compressed the nerves. And people might feel mentally fuzzy, not because of the virus itself, but because a shortage of the anesthetic drug, propofol, meant they received an alternative sedative that can bring more aftereffects, says Rogers, the psychiatrist at University College London.


Lingering questions — what the virus actually does to the brain, who will suffer the most, and for how long — are still unanswered, and probably won’t be for a long time. The varied and damaging effects of lockdowns, the imprecision doctors and patients use for describing symptoms (such as the nonmedical term “brain fog”) and the indirect effects the virus can have on the brain all merge, creating a devilishly complex puzzle.


For now, doctors are busy focusing on ways in which they can help, even amid these mysteries, and designing larger, longer studies to better understand the effects of the virus on the brain. That information will be key to helping people move forward. “This isn’t going to be over soon, unfortunately,” Troyer says.  


https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/2778090


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2021 at 9:31pm

DJ-My thoughts on Covid and children/school is try to keep them away from eachother the best you can...Certainly with the Delta variant children often seem to have more healthissues, more severe disease...Newer variants may be worse...

I am not fond of over-medication, bodies can defend themselves quite well...But for this Covid19 the picture is that much different that I would like to see both;

-Schools closed, e-learning till summer of 2022

-vaccinating even very young children

This pandemic is not a joke ! You do not want toddlers intubated at ICU if you can prevent it...

At present children-in general-are not protected, vaccinated. On this basis-with variants increasing-opening schools will result in a high number of very sick children. 

"If you don't want that don't do that" !!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 07 2021 at 3:51am

Spanish flu was a variant of flu.  Flu is endemic.  If there were no circulating flu, there could have been no spanish flu.  If there were no circulating flu there would not be deaths from even the milder strain every year.

Delta is a variant of SARS2.  SARS2 is being allowed to become endemic.  If it circulates endemically, there could be another "spanish flu type" variant - and there most probably will, as this virus seems to love mutating into new nastier strains.  I am not sure it can be wiped out now, as too many governments failed to take it seriously enough at the start.  But we have to try!  Otherwise our descendants may face horrors far beyond what we have seen in the last 18 months.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 07 2021 at 4:45am

My fear is we will be faced with a more potent variant sooner than later.......

With things like Sturgis going on with up too 700,000 people from all over the world converging.....

Madness.......

Delta++ lambda++

A coming....

Take care all 😷😉

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ME163 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 07 2021 at 8:06am

My X rays were worse than that guys.  I had a full sheet of white on my lungs.  The doctor called it a blizzard of death.  Vicki almost died the second night in ICU.  There is a reason why I zoom teach this year.  I am going to get the third shoot soon So will VIcki and Jill and  Becky and their families.   I still can't walk more than 100 feet and Jill has to bring the oxygen tank with her.  I guess that our lives are still enjoyable, however I have to be careful when I shoot my guns.  Neil is a 20 year vet of the US army rangers, He was a medic, So it is a blessing to have him working with us.  We enjoy shooting, it is one way of forgetting the hell that we are going thru.  Vicki is still having heart issues, Jill and Becky have prepositioned everything so Vicki will be able to be transported within 4 minutes of her alarm going off.   We brought a used ambulance and updated it for our transfers to the medical center.  We can be at the ER in  9 minutes flat.   We had the van engine swapped wiht a 700 HP  Wildcat engine.  It will  beat anything ot the police, State police have given us a free pass to the medical center.  The minute we are on the road, Police block off the side roads  we have a police escort and they have extreme problems keeping up with Neil.  what's even better is that once the engine is started and we are out of the driveway, the ER is notified.  The sound of the sirens are so loud that it sounds   like a jet engine.    So , you know what we have to do to save our lives.  We do not want to go to such extremes if we had a choice, but we don't have a choice.  We don't have to apologize for our  extreme actions.  We want to live a decent life.  

ME 163 and Vicki 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 07 2021 at 11:05am

That does not sound too much to ask, ME.  Everyone is entitled to a life and to do their best to preserve it.   EVERYONE.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 07 2021 at 3:10pm

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

Spanish flu was a variant of flu.  Flu is endemic.  If there were no circulating flu, there could have been no spanish flu.  If there were no circulating flu there would not be deaths from even the milder strain every year.

Delta is a variant of SARS2.  SARS2 is being allowed to become endemic.  If it circulates endemically, there could be another "spanish flu type" variant - and there most probably will, as this virus seems to love mutating into new nastier strains.  I am not sure it can be wiped out now, as too many governments failed to take it seriously enough at the start.  But we have to try!  Otherwise our descendants may face horrors far beyond what we have seen in the last 18 months.  

I don't think it can be wiped out now that it has spread to domestic cats and dogs - even some tigers have it at a zoo in the US. So we will have to live with it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 07 2021 at 3:14pm

Originally posted by carbon20 carbon20 wrote:

My fear is we will be faced with a more potent variant sooner than later.......

With things like Sturgis going on with up too 700,000 people from all over the world converging.....

Madness.......

Delta++ lambda++

A coming....

Take care all 😷😉

I'm right with you on this one Carbon. We certainly haven't see the end of variants, if anything we're just at the beginning of this mess. It'll be interesting to see where it goes. I was talking with one of my children yesterday about what superpowers we would like, and in the end my choice was the ability to see the future. Firstly I'd like to know the date of the Alpine Fault rupture and secondly I'd like to see where we are (disease wise) in 1 year, 3 years, 5 years etc time.

"Once you've decided that something's absolutely true, you've closed your mind on it, and a closed mind doesn't go anywhere. Question everything. That's what education's all about." ~ David Eddings
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AandEM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2021 at 4:33pm

I am heartbroken as we are losing a very close family friend to Covid. School has opened with nearly 0 mitigation strategies. No masks, no distancing. There are many unvaccinated teachers. I dont know what to do or say at this point. It is like watching a slow motion nightmare. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ME163 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2021 at 8:43pm

I teach a couple of classes at a local college and teaching online is an option that I have done.  Most of us have decided to Zoom teach. Delta variant is still pretty bad here with some Lambda variant.  We have quite a few international students who are trapped here.  The dean and some of the staff have put them up for the duration.   As far as the US students, they are being told to vaccinate or be disenrolled.   Don't know too much abou tthe local day care centers, they are still open.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2021 at 10:57pm

Here in NL first (elementary) schools will open august 23...with as good as no vaccinations in the under 12 y/o, no masks, no social distancing, bad ventilation...Most of the teachers/staff proberbly will be vaccinated...

NL government sticks to the idea "children only get mild disease in the worst case"...based on "science" from the NL-CDC...(science paid to agree with the government...). 

We by now import more then a 1,000 cases from mostly southern Europe...This will include variants within Delta...maybe even newer variants...

Lots of independent experts (we have a "red team" here in NL ([url]https://www.c19redteam.nl/[/url] or https://www.c19redteam.nl/ in Dutch..google translate...) but they have been ignored...The economy is #1 for the present government (and we do not have a new government since the march elections...I expect it is more likely we may see new elections then a new government...). 

So schoolreopening in NL will bring an increase of cases both in children and in (vaccinated) staff...Again "medical experts/politics" will be surprised that what is happening elsewhere did not stop at the NL borders...

Can't fix stupid...even when stupid is killing you !

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2021 at 2:06am

CNN: There's never been a worse time in the pandemic for US kids.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/25/world/meanwhile-in-america-august-25-intl/index.html

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2021 at 2:35am

Originally posted by carbon20 carbon20 wrote:

CNN: There's never been a worse time in the pandemic for US kids.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/25/world/meanwhile-in-america-august-25-intl/index.html

Thanks, Carbon!  I'm an Arizona US certified STEM teacher, grades 6-12, and have no interest in walking through the doors of any school for a long time, if ever.   This CNN article says:

"As millions of kids flock back to school, child hospitalizations for Covid-19 are at record levels. Some schools have already opened and then closed in the South, where infections are raging due to a comparatively low vaccine rate and the extra-infectious Delta variant. Thousands of children are quarantined."

This pandemic is nowhere near finished!!  I understand that parents wish to shuffle their kids back to school so that they can go back to work, have the kids socialize etc. but this only puts everyone at grave risk. 



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