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PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
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Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

Seattle Limiting Testing Now Because Endemic?

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BabyCat View Drop Down
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    Posted: March 07 2020 at 12:37pm

This is disgusting, if true. It is unconfirmed. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BabyCat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2020 at 12:40pm

Unconfirmed

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Gdeb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gdeb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2020 at 1:35pm

Yep...one of our workers in our Seattle office has symptoms, and immune deficiency issues. She called and asked to get tested, as she is having high fever and shortness of breath...was basically told “too bad”. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BabyCat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2020 at 1:50pm

Wuhan 2.0.

Like China, the US will do everything to limit the number of the confirmed, and probably hide the death count. But, here's the thing, the states and local agencies, and likely the governors, are probably NOT going to play around and will start ordering, conducting their own tests. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thorne! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2020 at 2:00pm

Originally posted by BabyCat BabyCat wrote:

Wuhan 2.0.

Like China, the US will do everything to limit the number of the confirmed, and probably hide the death count. But, here's the thing, the states and local agencies, and likely the governors, are probably NOT going to play around and will start ordering, conducting their own tests. F%$k the CDC.


IMO the only reason Seattle appeared as an early hotspot is due to some courageous doctors circumventing the CDC restrictions (I won't call them guidelines) by calling testing "research". UW (University of Washington) developed the ability to do 400 tests per day.

This goes well beyond "botching" and "incompetence" into intentional.

How can this be argued that it is not a .gov coverup at the highest levels?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeachMama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2020 at 2:12pm

I am without words. I knew all along that this was a possibility — that the government would manipulate the facts to hide or alter data — but to see it happening — that is just something else entirely. I almost feel nauseous. Good God. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pheasant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2020 at 2:16pm

Abbot and Costello routine.....

"you do not need masks" 

But why

"Because they will do you no good"

But why

"Because if you don't have the virus you don't need them"

But why

"It does not matter now because you all are infected anyway, stay home and wait for us to contact you, please call xxx-xxx-xxxx if you need assistance"

Ring...ring...ring...ring... "Due to high call volume All lines are busy, please call back later"


The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself......FDR
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pheasant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2020 at 2:20pm

Actually, in all seriousness We need some professionals to chime in like Chuck....is this in the playbook?

The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself......FDR
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Newbie1A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2020 at 2:22pm

Originally posted by BabyCat BabyCat wrote:

Wuhan 2.0.

Like China, the US will do everything to limit the number of the confirmed, and probably hide the death count. But, here's the thing, the states and local agencies, and likely the governors, are probably NOT going to play around and will start ordering, conducting their own tests. F%$k the CDC.

QUOTE+ BeachMama

I am without words. I knew all along that this was a possibility — that the government would manipulate the facts to hide or alter data — but to see it happening — that is just something else entirely. I almost feel nauseous. Good God. 

I pray you are correct BabyCat - that states/locals start testing on their own - if for no other reason then to know 'what' they are treating patients for!

I agree 100% BeachMama - my heart sank as I read this, and just about in tears.  Trying so hard to get some of the people I care about to take this seriously...how can they take it seriously when the government, health authorities etc make a complete #'n joke out of it!  So angry...


If it's to be - it's up to me!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2020 at 2:36pm

What is the point of testing for something that if you have it, there's nothing can be done, seems a huge waste of money and

resources to me 

Unless your insurance needs it,

Something we don't have to worry about with our 1st class health system,

its FREE

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BabyCat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2020 at 2:49pm

Thornel, I am halfway wondering if this is now a LIHOP ("Let it Happen on Purpose")..the PTB "never let a good crisis go to waste"..

The question is why...

Hubris? Stupidity? Incompetence? Some dark Malthusian/Kissinger/Davos/Bilderberg die-off plan, where the crash/reset was going to happen anyway so take advantage of it? It's simply denial of reality.

I predict (seem to be pretty good at that) that some serious, serious political changes will begin as a result of this. A total loss of confidence in the "system."

I don't think the general public truly understands what's coming. Prepare for severe information control/lockdown/propaganda, Chinese-style. Not joking. 

Because we've prepared so poorly, and because the administration is maintaining everything is under control, when it becomes obvious to deny that it isn't, people are going to freak out, and be rightfully angry. It's why I say this will be Trump's Katrina moment. Cognitive dissonance on a massive scale. 

Pray it isn't as worse as I'm saying. I hope I'm wrong. But I'm tired of being overly cautious. 

SOUND THE ALARM.

BATTEN DOWN THE HATCHES.

PROTECT YOURSELF AND YOUR FAMILY. NOW.

Northern parts of Italy, including Milan, will now be locked down.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2020 at 2:55pm

I think you correct there babycat...

What will happen is 

American will realise that a universal health system is the only way to look after it's citizens,and paid sick leave is a must...

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pheasant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2020 at 3:00pm

Originally posted by carbon20 carbon20 wrote:

I think you correct there babycat...

What will happen is 

American will realise that a universal health system is the only way to look after it's citizens,and paid sick leave is a must...

Errrr the government is in charge now....this IS an example of government health care.......Do not forget it

The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself......FDR
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2020 at 3:23pm

good luck with that.....lol 

      

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2020 at 3:38pm

You are all ok guys!  Your President says: "We are doing a great job with this virus, the best job in the world."

Sorry! That was bitchy of me.  The (insert unusable 4 letter word  beginning with a C and ending with a T here) could not have done a worse job if he tried.  I love you guys.  Americans are great people. You don't deserve a single snowflake of this crapstorm.

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His lips or pen are moving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Newbie1A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2020 at 3:41pm

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

Sorry! That was bitchy of me.  The (insert unusable 4 letter word  beginning with a C and ending with a T here) could not have done a worse job if he tried.  

https://media1.tenor.com/images/683e27d3d70b05e7f6087a6c355ebf0c/tenor.gif?itemid=9445212

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gdeb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2020 at 3:45pm

What Pheasant said...this absolutely IS the government screwing up healthcare. I Absolutely don’t want any part of a government run health system...no thanks. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2020 at 4:23pm

I listen to the American chatter and I get an idea of what you buy and how you live.  Your lifestyles are rich by my standards.  But our life expectancy is aignificantly longer - much, much longer if your government's handling of this is anything to go on.  

Yes our NHS is cash strapped, government run and a bit shoddy around the edges.  But it works.  It works very well indeed.  How many of your people survive ruptured AAAs? My husband did.  How many survive stage 4 cancer? Again he did.  I have a new hip (hip hip hurray!).  I sleep nights worry-free.  My tumbledown house is all mine as I don't have to sell it for care, I get all I need.


But that is not the real reason it is so wonderful.  Because the poorest are given healthcare, disease spreads less.  The taxes I paid, which were onerous, made sure that hep A did not enter the water from our homeless.  The drug addict who had sex with the girl who had sex with the boy who is now my Daughters boyfriend (in theory - I don't know the chain) will not have had untreated HIV.  She is safer as a result.  Cases of untreated drug-resistant TB are far, far rarer, both because they are found and treated and also because everyone finishes the antibiotic polytherapy - not always the case when they run out of money to pay for it as they do over there.  EVERYONE BENEFITS EVEN THE RICH!

Out of the governments over the last few decades, this one has been the hardest on the NHS; they still beat your system hands-down.  We are 29 in world life expectancy despite being a far poorer country than the USA and having a government that cut funding over the last decade.  The USA is 46, midway between Estonia and Panama - not exactly rich countries. https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/

Simply the facts.


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His lips or pen are moving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thorne! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2020 at 6:40pm

Is there anyway to get confirmation of it? I can't find anything on their website, but I'm not a member.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BabyCat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2020 at 6:48pm

Good idea to get confirmation. I don't remember where I saw it, but here's a Twitter post. Maybe it's fake news.

I'll update post

https://twitter.com/covid19_seattle/status/1236192949601333253

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BabyCat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2020 at 6:51pm

I also saw it here (very large following):

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1236171700632420354

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BabyCat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2020 at 6:57pm

Ok, it seems that the tests will be performed, just not at the outpatient and urgent care clinics, due to higher risks, etc. 

But the real interesting part was the determination by the CDC that it's endemic, after claiming for weeks and weeks: "THERE IS NO COMMUNITY TRANSMISSION"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BabyCat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2020 at 7:01pm

I can't find any reference on their page. I will update original post. 

https://www.evergreenhealth.com/coronavirus

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BabyCat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2020 at 7:06pm

It seems that there are reports Evergreen deleted the page immediately, but others also captured screenshots:

https://twitter.com/covid19_seattle/status/1236192949601333253

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Emswally Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2020 at 7:12pm

I read somewhere that the CDC ( Center for Delinquent Containment)

Tried to produce a test kit that tested for SARS MERS and Covid.   Guess they wanted a gold label test    Didn’t work obviously  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thorne! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2020 at 7:24pm

Originally posted by BabyCat BabyCat wrote:

It seems that there are reports Evergreen deleted the page immediately, but others also captured screenshots:

https://twitter.com/covid19_seattle/status/1236192949601333253


My feeling is go with it until proven otherwise. It fits with the rest of the story.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pheasant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2020 at 1:30am

So I'm confused....is WA testing or not?

The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself......FDR
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2020 at 1:51am

Originally posted by pheasant pheasant wrote:

Actually, in all seriousness We need some professionals to chime in like Chuck....is this in the playbook?

OK....The SARSCoV2 agent (corona virus) is NOT endemic in Washington, or in any state in the USA.  This is still an evolving outbreak.  

This smells like BS to me.  One reason why tests are not being routinely performed is that, quite honestly, CDC bungled the roll-out of their own test (spoiled reagents from what I've read), and the testing kits all had to be re-manufactured. 

That being said, there are not enough tests to go around to meet the needs of a swelling population of positive cases, much less routine population testing.  Dr. Fauci and others advocate widespread testing of the population if at all possible, in order to identify early cases & "super spreaders" before they express symptoms.  

I work with departments of public health in a number of states and on a national level, we are all just sick at what is happening....most of us saw this as inevitable, as the infrastructure we built up after 9/11 and in preparation for an H5N1 or other influenza pandemic has been gutted by politicians who do not understand public health.  

I'm very angry at the CDC's senior management....the director, Dr. Robert Redfield, is a Trump "hack" who has a very controversial background.  Please see:  https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/03/trumps-cdc-director-has-a-history-of-controversial-opinions-on-controlling-viruses/

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2020 at 1:55am

What went wrong with the coronavirus tests in the U.S.


Trump interrupts health officials: 'Anybody that wants a test can get a test'


While speaking alongside Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar and CDC Director Robert Redfield, President Trump spoke about coronavirus tests March 6. (The Washington Post)
By 
Carolyn Y. Johnson and 
Laurie McGinley 
March 7, 2020 at 6:38 a.m. MST

Since Renee Schwartz developed shortness of breath and a severe cough two weeks ago, she has been trying desperately to get a coronavirus test. She has already been tested for the flu — she was negative — and other problems have been ruled out. But while her doctor thinks a test is warranted, she told Schwartz she does not have access to any tests.

“I feel like crap,” said Schwartz, 60, of North Hills, Calif. “I want to know, why can’t I get this test?”

While the stories of people who are sick but can’t get tested get widespread attention, President Trump presented the situation very differently on a Friday afternoon visit to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta.

“Anybody that needs a test gets a test. Anybody that needs a test. They are all set; they have them out there,” Trump said. “As of right now, and yesterday, anybody that needs a test can get one.”


Pence: Access to coronavirus tests being expanded 'to every American'


‘Maybe I have a natural ability’: Trump plays medical expert on coronavirus by second-guessing the professionals

Production is ramping up, but tests — and the labs and equipment necessary to run them — are still very limited. Even where test kits are available, many states are following strict criteria for who should be tested to avoid overwhelming their labs.

Interviews with a dozen laboratory experts and government health officials reveal a six-week series of glitches, missed opportunities and delays that contributed to the shortage.

“They’ve simply lost time they can’t make up. You can’t get back six weeks of blindness,” said Jeremy Konyndyk, who oversaw the international response to Ebola during the Obama administration and is a senior policy fellow at the Center for Global Development. “To the extent that there’s someone to blame here, the blame is on poor, chaotic management from the White House and failure to acknowledge the big picture.”


What we know about the coronavirus: Symptoms, transmission and response


The problems started in early February, at a CDC laboratory in Atlanta.

A technical manufacturing problem, along with an initial decision to test only a narrow set of people and delays in expanding testing to other labs, gave the virus a head start to spread undetected — and helped perpetuate a false sense of security that leaves the United States dangerously behind.

Nineteen people are dead, and there are more than 300 known cases of the novel coronavirus in the United States and undoubtedly many more cases that have not been detected.

In late December, when reports of a new virus causing mysterious pneumonia began to trickle out of Wuhan, China, public health experts went on high alert. One of the first needs was to develop a test so that governments across the world would have the ability to track the spread of the virus.

Specter of possible new virus emerging from central China raises alarms across Asia

China developed its own test. Leading laboratories in Germany published their own version, which was adopted by the World Health Organization. Many countries, including the United States, developed their own tests.

The traditional U.S. strategy for devising new diagnostic tests starts with the CDC. That is supposed to ensure new tests are accurate and reliable, but it also meant that other parallel approaches were not aggressively pursued.

Scott Gottlieb, former Food and Drug Administration commissioner in the Trump administration, said, “The key in a crisis like this is to take an all-of-the-above approach, whether we’re dealing with diagnostics or therapeutics.” That responsibility, he said, was up to other parts of the administration, such as the Department of Health and Human Services or the FDA.

The CDC shared the details of the U.S. test publicly on Jan. 24.

A week later, the United States declared a public health emergency, a process designed to speed the development of diagnostic tests and other medical products. The CDC received the first “emergency use authorization” to make and distribute its test to the backbone of the public health system in the United States — mostly state labs.

But the emergency policy, intended to keep quality high, also discouraged hospital labs from quickly developing in-house tests. They would need specific approval from the FDA to do so.

“Since CDC and FDA haven’t authorized public health or hospital labs to run the tests, right now #CDC is the only place that can. So, screening has to be rationed,” Gottlieb tweeted on Feb. 2.

The CDC manufactured kits, and on Feb. 6 and 7, 90 test kits were shipped to the public health labs. Some labs began to have trouble with the test. On Feb. 12, the CDC announced the test was providing inconclusive results in some laboratories. The problem was in one of the three components of the test.

It involved a part of the third component intended to be a backstop — a double-check so that when labs get a negative result, they can trust it. A federal official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because there is an ongoing investigation, said the problem may have been a design flaw or contamination in a CDC lab when the tests were being produced.

Some critics have questioned why the CDC didn’t switch to tests being used by other countries as soon as the problems arose, but the official said it would have taken longer to apply for a new authorization from the FDA and validate and manufacture a new test than it would to fix a test they knew worked in their own lab.

Demand for testing was manageable at the time — in part because the CDC criteria for who should get tested required recent travel to China or close contact with a confirmed case. That narrow testing identified few infections, reinforcing the idea that the country had enough tests.

Coronavirus testing widened as California case makes containment more urgent

But epidemiologists advising the CDC already had been debating when to begin broader testing to see if the virus was circulating in the community, said Jeffrey Engel, executive director of the Council of State and Territorial Epidemiologists. Narrow testing basically guaranteed that the United States would remain unaware of whether the virus was already circulating among people who thought they had a cold or the flu.

On Feb. 13, HHS Secretary Alex Azar testified before Congress that a limited five-city pilot would begin to add coronavirus to the usual flu surveillance system to see whether “there is broader spread than we have been able to detect so far.” But the plan was delayed because coronavirus tests weren’t available.

Academic hospitals, which have laboratories that routinely develop tests to use on their patients, began to get increasingly anxious about the nation being dependent on the CDC lab. They considered pursuing FDA approval for their tests but complained they didn’t have the resources or expertise — or access to crucial materials such as the virus itself — for the complicated application process required during a public health emergency.

“When the CDC test was delayed, then the cases started appearing outside of China, there should have been a quicker response to get diagnostic testing going” by easing regulations on hospital labs, said Melissa Miller, director of the clinical molecular microbiology laboratory at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill School of Medicine.

During the Zika outbreak, some laboratories developed their own tests and got letters from the FDA notifying them that their tests had not been approved. Even as coronavirus testing remained limited nationwide, the CDC reminded hospitals on Feb. 18 that they shouldn’t do their own testing without an “emergency use authorization” from the FDA.

People experienced with working on other outbreaks have said that more flexibility was necessary to get more labs and companies testing.

“I don’t think anyone is used to dealing with a pandemic like this. None of us alive have ever witnessed a pandemic like this, or what it could become. I think traditional ways of looking at how to develop diagnostics, therapeutic . . . have to be thought of differently, or we’ll never get things out fast enough,” said Mark Miller, chief medical officer of bioMérieux, a leading diagnostics company that aims to launch a test by the end of March.

As days went by, public health labs became increasingly desperate and on Feb. 25 requested special permission from the FDA to develop their own tests. The agency accepted the request. But along with the CDC, it also found a workaround, allowing a partial CDC test to be used. New test kits began to be sent out in the following days, with two of the three original components.

Almost as soon as testing capabilities came online, labs found cases of coronavirus. A week ago, a person in Oregon who had been sick since Feb. 19 tested positive — hours after state officials got their CDC test up and running. In Washington state, one of the cases identified was a teenager who went to the doctor with ordinary flu symptoms; his swab was submitted through surveillance testing that was only possible after the testing capabilities came online.

On Feb. 29, the FDA finally announced a new policy to make it easier for hospital laboratories to develop their own tests. “This outbreak and our response is dynamic and evolving,” said Stephanie Caccomo, a spokeswoman for the FDA. “As the situation changes, we are being flexible as we execute policies intended to protect public health.”

“Most laboratories were anticipating a more rigorous FDA stance, and had not been leaning forward for tests that could have been made more useful,” a federal health official said. “We were working under the rubric and framework they set in place, and had they known things could be more flexible,” labs might have moved forward faster.

Public health labs had received tests for up to 75,000 people by Friday. As of Friday night, more than 1.1 million tests had been shipped to nonpublic health labs including academic medical centers and commercial laboratories, officials said. The administration said 4 million more tests will be shipped in the next several days.

Quest Diagnostics announced its coronavirus testing would be available Monday. LabCorp announced its tests were available Thursday evening.

As testing problems are fixed, public confusion remains — as does frustration about uneven access to testing.

A California nurse who is sick and cared for a patient confirmed to be infected with the coronavirus said in a statement Thursday that she was still waiting for permission to be tested.

“This is not the ticket dispenser at the deli counter; it’s a public health emergency!” the nurse, who was not named, wrote in a statement shared by the California Nurses Association. “I am a registered nurse, and I need to know if I am positive before going back to caring for patients. I am appalled at the level of bureaucracy that’s preventing nurses from getting tested. That is a health care decision my doctor and my county health department agree with. Delaying this test puts the whole community at risk.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/what-went-wrong-with-the-coronavirus-tests/2020/03/07/915f5dea-5d82-11ea-b29b-9db42f7803a7_story.html

CRS, DrPH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Thorne! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2020 at 2:16pm

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by pheasant pheasant wrote:

Actually, in all seriousness We need some professionals to chime in like Chuck....is this in the playbook?

OK....The SARSCoV2 agent (corona virus) is NOT endemic in Washington, or in any state in the USA.  This is still an evolving outbreak.  

Dr. Neil Ferguson of J-IDEA (UK) models that there are 1,000 cases behind every death. Currently there are 18 deaths in Washington State, clustered in the Seattle area, which pencils out to 18,000 cases. To be conservative, lets cut that figure by 50% to 9,000 cases. How many cases will take in this "Don't Test, Don't Tell" shit show to determine that it IS endemic in a region, state or the country? 

The WHO still won't call it a Global Pandemic when it clearly has been for weeks.

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