| PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL |
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| Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
SECONDARY PNEUMONIA FROM SEVERE FLU |
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 Posted: July 26 2006 at 7:01am |
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Dear Concerned Dad,
I received the same response from my childrens' pediatrician. She did not recommend it since they do not meet the high risk criteria. I am hesitant about not getting them vaccinated since they are asthmatic.
I think the PPV could really help a lot of americans fight off a secondary pneumonia. My research led me to Australia and I found the following link for children and the Pneumococcal vaccination -- age two and older:
Hope this is helpful.
NOTE: excuse the repeat post, am trying to get this one deleted!
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Albert
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 11:23am |
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GO GO GO GO GO GO
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mamooo
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 12:33pm |
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i had one 3 years ago ,i have copd wonder if i should ask dr about another one ,i think it's after 5 years if your over 65 , i'm 60 for a booster
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carol
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mamooo
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 12:39pm |
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sherrie here in louisanna in the fall at the grociey stores they have flu shots for $10.00 and pne. for 20.00. you should be able to check grocery stores on line for dates ,only thing it's in the fall when i hear something later on i will post it.
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carol
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Posted: August 02 2006 at 4:30am |
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Dear All, Still trying to find out about the safety of the pneumovax 23 and children. (ages 9 and 11). Does anyone know? Woul love to hear back. Thanks, Argyll. |
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mamooo
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Posted: August 02 2006 at 9:19am |
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how long ago between shots,i had one 3 years ago and i have copd
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carol
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Posted: August 02 2006 at 10:33pm |
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mamooo, thanks i will call several stores in the morning.
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Frisky
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Posted: August 03 2006 at 4:05pm |
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mamoo, your PPV status should be considered up to date. Your next update probably should be after you turn 65. ER Doc
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It is better to give than to receive.
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mamooo
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Posted: August 04 2006 at 1:13pm |
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thank you so much ,you know my daughter is 38 and i finaly got her to inquire about a pne shot. the nurse laught at her when she said she was concern about it ,does everyone have there head in sand?
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carol
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700renegade
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Posted: August 14 2006 at 8:31am |
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Count me in on the list of those that prevailed in getting my doc to allow a PPV23 shot. Who'd think a guy would have to be so insistant to get a health official to allow you to get immunized with something that is supposed to be "not harmful" even though I don't fit any of the risk groups. I avoided telling them my motivation had anything to do w/ bird flu, as they probably would have rather put me on some drug for mental psychosis than give me the dang immunization. There must not be any profit in the immunization or something.....
Here is a question for those that did get the immunization - on Saturday about exactly 24hrs after the shot, my eyesight got hazy and distorted for about 1/2 hour then cleared right up - the only analogy I can think of is that my vision was like it gets when you jump up off the couch sometimes and you get dizzy a few steps away due to your blood pressure dropping or something. Only in this case there was no dizzy or anything else - just slightly distorted vision. I just figured it was my body dealing w/ the new 23 items circulating around that day in my blood.
Anyone else have that happen?
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Posted: August 14 2006 at 3:20pm |
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Hello I'm new to this fourm. I just wanted to say that I found it a very interesting and informative thread.
Since they took my spleen in 1999 I've been given the PPV 23 shot 3 times. I was told that you should get a booster every other year.
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newprepper
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Posted: August 14 2006 at 6:28pm |
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Hi Wolf, I was told to get a shot every 10 yrs so I got another one 2 yrs ago.
I came down with pneumonia in June of this year. It came on VERY suddenly with extreme chills, temp of 102 and vomiting. Spent time in the hospital and put on antiobiotics and predisone. Still not up to par but getting better abit every day. This is not something you want to get!
I ask my doc why I got it since I had gotten the injection again just a couple years ago. He said it's only effective 70% of the time.
Well, 70% is better than none. So, I hope everyone goes to get one if they haven't already.
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Posted: August 14 2006 at 7:41pm |
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I came down with pneumonia 6 month after I lost my spleen. I spent 2 weeks in the hosp. with that. It was a bad time. I also picked up on some bad signs.
1 when you are checking into the hosp. and the nurse stops taking your information and states, "Your wife can finish checking you in, I want to put you on oxygen". Not a good sign.
 2 When you are in your room and the nurse checking your vitals, at 3 AM, stops and call you doctor at home to tell him your temperature. NOT at good sign.
I was told to take a booster every 2 years by doctors in 2 states.
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Posted: August 16 2006 at 1:29am |
Argyll,
My son got his pneumovax last year, when he was 14.
He has severe seasonal allergies (takes Allegra, which only helps slightly), and is asthmatic (is prescribed flovent and albuterol, but takes neither...as he has only had one asthma attack in over 5 years.)
His reaction to the pneumovax was the same as the rest of the family.....
redness at the injection site
no noticeable fever
BUT OUR ARMS SURELY DID HURT LIKE ALL HECK FOR A FEW DAYS.
We are talking MAJOR ouchies here!!
 Pneumovax is like every other vaccine in terms of safety...... it is a shot in the dark. You will not know if you or your child will have a reaction till after the fact. Small comfort, I know. I weighed the risks... and for once in my life decided NOT TO ERR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION> I got him the shot.
It was worth any slight risk of a serious reaction......
Strange.....coming from someone who signs the vaccine exemption form every year for my homeschooled son.
I don't believe in vaccines for every ailment life throws our way. I am sure someone will soon come up with a vaccine for acne.... sheesh. Still, THIS vaccine seemed, in light of world events, to be of major importance. Even if this vaccine only increases our chances of surviving BF by say.... 15%, or even 10%......then that is still a better bet than the 2% chance that we will have a reaction to the vaccine itself.
I don't know how much, if at all, this vaccine will help if my family gets BF.....but at least I won't have to wonder, at the end, if having it would have helped....even a little.
By the way, I had to lie my backside off to get this vaccine from the State Health Center. They gave me the run around and even became hostile.....so, I lied about our health. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
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Posted: August 16 2006 at 1:48am |
Good point made by this poster that I would like to clarify....
This shot is for those who are old and with certain illnesses, especially those with compromised immune systems.
A VACCINATION IS ONLY AS GOOD AS THE IMMUNE SYSTEM OF THE PERSON GETTING THE SHOT. In other words, if your immune system is only 60% effective, your response to the vaccine will only be 60% effective, and your PROTECTION from the vaccine will only be 60% effective........Chronic illness, age, pregnancy(temporary) all lower the immune system. If you QUALIFY, PER THE CDC GUIDELINES for this shot, you probably will not get the full effectiveness from it. That is why some people who get the shot STILL GET A PNEUMONIA THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE COVERED BY THE VACCINE.
Now, for those of us who lie or cajole our doctors or state health centers into giving it to us even though we are not sick or old or otherwise eligible for it, then we are more likely to get the full or near full immune response from this or ANY vaccine.
So, yes, for SOME people the vaccine is effective only by 70%, or even lower....... it all depends on the fitness of your immune system. The stronger the immune system, the better the protection.
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Posted: August 16 2006 at 3:01pm |
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I got my vaccine today.
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Posted: August 17 2006 at 8:40am |
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Does anyone know if the pneumovax 23 vaccine covers the MRSA staph infection?
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Frisky
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Posted: August 17 2006 at 5:14pm |
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Staph is a completely different organism than pneumococcus. The pneumococcal vaccine does not protect against MRSA staph infection. There is a theoretical slight risk pneumococcal vaccine by decreasing nasal carriage of the pneumoccal bacteria opens up space for increased carriage of MRSA staph and therefore may slightly increase risk of MRSA staph infection. This slight theoretical increase risk is minimal compared to the well known positive benefit of pneumococcal vaccine. ER Doc
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It is better to give than to receive.
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Posted: August 17 2006 at 8:47pm |
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http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol12no01/05-1254.htm Influenza Pandemics of the 20th Century Excerpt- |
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Posted: August 18 2006 at 5:48pm |
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I got turned down for the PPV 23... I called last month (Patient First) and was told they give this vaccine to adults and children. Tonight I went to get a shot for my son and myself, paid the copay and the PA said he couldn't authorize the shot. He stated they only give it to those people who have had their spleen removed. They refunded my copay and "06ed" my account. Not sure what that means, but I am a little worried having not received the shot for pnemoccocal bacterial protection. |
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Concerned Dad
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Posted: August 19 2006 at 8:10am |
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Success! My wife and I went yesterday and got ours. At first the Doc said my Ins wouldn't cover my shot because I'm perfectly healthy and 42, my wife has RA so she qualifies, I said, that's OK, what is the cost if the INS don't cover? 60.00, I said cool. So we both got ours.
It still got submitted to my ins, well see if they cover it, but to be honest, I don't care. 
The kids are still not done. Well work that out later. |
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Posted: August 19 2006 at 3:11pm |
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New York's pandemic flu response plan revolves around three key requirements: early detection, prevention, and health care delivery.
During the early days of a pandemic, the plan specifies:
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Posted: August 19 2006 at 7:26pm |
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Does anyone know who in Virginia is giving PPV23 shots? I had no luck so far.
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Posted: August 19 2006 at 7:52pm |
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put in the name of your county followed by the words walk in clinic on google or your fav search engine...dogpile etc.
example-
Henrico walk in clinic
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Posted: August 20 2006 at 10:25pm |
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pneumonic plague, caused by breathing the bacteria into the lungs -- is highly lethal and is considered a weapon of choice for germ warfare or bioterrorism.
..............................................................................................................
Does pneuma23 protect from pneumonic plague?
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araywood
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Posted: August 21 2006 at 10:18am |
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THIS NOT A NEW POST I POSTED THIS IN MARCH you may remember
( this was a week after the mysterious bird deaths in the Bahamas that didn't really happen)
I am a very active watermen always in the ocean or the everglades surfing or wakeboarding. Last week my son and I were skateboarding at a local skatepark (FLorida) that borders a lake. The birds like to sit on the rails and poop. I kept flying out of the half pipe and putting my hand on the railing (in the dryed bird poop). Not intentionally it just happened. 2 days later he and I got the worst flu I ever experienced im my life. High fever, bloody noses, coughing, sneezing, headache, bodyache he was on the floor for 2 days neither one of us could move or eat. We usually laugh about the flu and continue doing everything we always do. We are both better, but I still have this dry cough and no energy (2 weeks later). I don't get sick like this, I never get fevers or bloody noses. My son's throat was visible bleeding (like road rash).
IT HAS NOW BEEN 5 MONTHS LATER.... I still have Pnemonia and so does he. I have been on Sulfamethoxazole/ TMP DS. for over a month it is the worst thing I have ever taken. can you guys give me any advice on how to beet this. I am humana HMO when I see my doctor he stand as far away from me as humanly possible and reveals very little other than you have alot of scar tissue in your lungs????? he asks me "is there anything I need?" All the doctors act the same.
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NO NEWS IS WHO NEWS
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700renegade
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Posted: August 21 2006 at 11:45am |
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Entropy,
Regarding your July comments:
That being said vaccines are not without very SIGNIFICANT risks. Passenger proteins, viruses, RNA,DNA fragments are often present. This is true even with recombinant formulations, unfortunately. I know personally of medical staff who received pooled plasma Hepatitis C vaccine and only later found out it wasn't recombinant. Some were HIV positive.
Can you help me understand what the risks might be in the PPV-23 vaccine? I got the shot, and am currently working up an "angle" to get my 10, 8, 6, and 4 year old done too ( I know my 10-month is ineligible ). Your comments alarm me - are there risks no one else has been discussing? What is the HIV+ issue - I take it they were HIV+ before the Hep C, and that is a problem?
I guess I don't understand the risks well enough to be confident the shot is "harmless" for my kids. Is the main issue for you Entropy that the shots have not shown any evidence of benefit, or is the issue that the immunization itself can be harmful?
Albert, you are a great proponent on the PPV-23 - any comments on the potential problems for healthy kids?
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Frisky
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Posted: August 21 2006 at 12:41pm |
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Anharra, the plague in all its forms is caused by
a bacteria called yersenia pestis. It is unrelated to the pneumococcus
bacteria so the pneumococcal vaccine does not provide any
protection. ER Doc
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It is better to give than to receive.
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Frisky
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Posted: August 21 2006 at 1:08pm |
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araywood, there is a disease called psittacosis that you
can contract from dried bird poop and causes a pneumonia type illness
in humans similar to what you have. You should see your doctor and
bring up this illness. ER Doc
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It is better to give than to receive.
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brianages
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Posted: August 22 2006 at 5:28am |
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I understand your problem and I would ask for a different doctor. I caught "valley fever" in California once and when I went to the ER coughing up a cup of bright red blood with each cough; the doctor (who barley spoke English) told me I had a sinus infection.
I gave up and just figured I was going to die and hoped my family would file suit with that doctor (Kaiser Permanente). As I approached my car I coughed and blood went everywhere. A security guard came up and said "you need to get to the ER, let me help". I told him I just left there and the doctor was an idiot. He looked at me and said "I know, are you a veteran?" I said yes and he took me to the VA hospital who took one look at me; ran a couple of tests and placed me on IV's for ten days.
I ended up with the lung scaring and some chronic stuff. You need to fight to get medical help because today's doctor will let you die.
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Brian Ages - Tybee Island - GA
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araywood
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Posted: August 22 2006 at 6:34am |
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Thanks Guys ! I am stopping the antibotics and when I start feeling bad I'll go to the ER saying I have Chest pains and difficulty breathing. Which is the prerequsite for the use of a ER by Humana HMO. I hate HMO (death by HMO) but to go PPO is an extra $634 A MONTH!!
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NO NEWS IS WHO NEWS
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Posted: August 22 2006 at 3:58pm |
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Wolf,
The fact that you have had your spleen removed makes you more at risk for contracting pneumonia which is why they recommended the frequent boosters. An important function of the spleen is to help fight bacterial infections.
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Posted: August 22 2006 at 4:38pm |
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Please note:
Folks in NYS have access to pretty affordable health care, especially if you are self employed, or even have a small business on the side or if you have a part time or 2 part time jobs and no health care...or if you have lost your job...you can get affordable health care! Please go here...
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ENTROPY
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Posted: August 24 2006 at 12:04pm |
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700renagade, Sorry I have not replied to your request regarding my July post.I have been very busy with my Medical contacts due to the explosive nature of data/events with HPAI. No, the individuals became HIV+ AFTER the immunization because the vaccine was derived from "pooled plasma" at that time. My concern is with all vaccines due to our still "ancient" technology for making them. This does NOT mean that vaccines should not be taken or given. PPV-23 is for 23 genotypes of the biologic entity causing this pneumoccal disease. There are 90 known genotypes with 10 implicated thus far in this variant disease. The question is risk/reward ratio regarding any vaccine. I believe this is an excellent site but I do have factually based disagreement with some "recommendations." Looking into the Vaccine reported adverse reactions as well as the number of recalls of any vaccine is important if not vital. Postings that express absolute certainty with regard to secondary or anticipatory complications of HPAI are not helpfull to say the least. Immune system response exhaustion and triggered apotosis are all being looked into. Thank God for people like Dr.Osterholm and ERDOC and others. Yes I did say Godbecause we are all going to be in "foxholes" before this is over and we all know what you will not find in a foxhole. Respectfully submitted.
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EYE in the SKY
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Posted: August 24 2006 at 3:25pm |
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People please get this vaccine if at all possible my daughter has just came home from the hospital.She has had PNEUMONIA and has been in CCU for 6 days and in a regular room for 1.Heres a list of some of her meds.
Tylenol Xopenex Humibid Albuterol Normal saline Zithromax Keflex Monistat 7 and she is still on 2 liters of oxygen And you can bet she got a Pneumonia shot before she left the doc said it would be good for 5 to 10 years. |
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Posted: August 24 2006 at 6:58pm |
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what is her age? good of you to post this.
Xopenex (levalbuterol HCl) Inhalation Solution is supplied in unit-dose vials and requires no dilution before administration by nebulization.
How was that done? nebulization. A friend who's childen have asthma use a nebulizer. never saw it.
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Posted: August 24 2006 at 7:09pm |
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She is 19. If Im not mistaken a nebulizer works off of compressed air.
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Posted: August 27 2006 at 9:43am |
There is a bit of resistance in Wall Street World, lawyers, even real estate another, um, hobby, when someone tugs on your sleeve as a "Doctor" and asks questions.
I post a lot here and hardly ever have posted much on what you have posted. Yesteday my brother in law had a combined heart attack and mysterious ailment and is now in the hospital. Over 9 familiy members and others have been hospitalized for some type of illusive "bug" which in the worst case - one gentleman who works for me in a senior position, was diagnosed with diverticulitis to the point he lost 5 pints of blood and barely pulled through.
It is understood in the "classic" medical community we are in the midst of GI season. But my pregnant wife is running a fever (I guess that is normal), I am extremly ill and running a fever, mother-in-low aunt-in-law, grandmother, 7,8 year old children two infants - The list is quite extensive.
Being military- ex and also involved in some ways, I am fully covered by the government medical who has not been able, despite Cat Scans and blood tests, even for c. dificil and other pathogens to nail this bug.
This current bout has lasted more than 6 months. It is not one case, we have an outbreak and no one will touch it. We have contacted the health department, CDC, state, and with my brother in law in intentive care, my grandmother having got a blockage in the heart and still has something "nasty" we have hid a brick wall.
Personal guess - it is a virus, a parasite, or some really nasty local pollutant. It doesn't go away. I am concerned for the life of the children, it infecting the newborn of my expectant wife, and am to the point where it is difficult for me to function in my research.
The research projects are important and I am a key investigator in some. I am watching people going down hill with this and no one is doing anytihing. Two colleagues at the university got this - one female was hospitalized for 2 weeks.
You know I have been investigating people who have evidence that one strain or several of Avian has jumped to intestinal. We are at a fine line when one of my main people bleeds out 5 pints of blood from this and then I am diagnosed with the same type of thing (fortunately without the blood loss). If a form of low path - and people are not dead in our family yet, in ER, CCU, ICU, and their own doctors do not seem to know what to test for, it does make life pretty bad. It is is contagious. Contact at least.
I would like to believe the labs (they are mostly sent to Arlington, V) would pick something up. Problem is - just like a low path form of Avian could slip into the crevasse of pneumonia in diagnose, people die, and that would be closure, and this could happen to hundreds of thousands before the lights would go on. Arlington sent the case back to WV and told them to deal with it.
So, here is what the CAT read in terms of diagnosis
Who else is having tummy problems these days?
WASHINGTON (AP) - Although U.S. doctors can only speculate on Fidel Castro's health, his self-described symptoms could signal severe ulcers, a colon condition called diverticulosis or, an outside possibility, even cancer.
Whatever the cause, major abdominal surgery in a soon-to-be 80-year-old is risky, made more so if Castro is indeed weakened from prolonged bleeding. Pneumonia, blood clots and other life-threatening complications can crop up in the critical first days of recuperation. Suspect infections : Nasty E-Coli 0157 - this is found in birds as well
Symptoms typically include nausea, headache, backache, fever, abdominal pain and diarrhoea. In some cases, illness can be severe and prolonged, leading to arthritis and even neurological complications: since the eradication of polio, Guillain-Barre Syndrome is the most feared cause of paralysis in the Western world, and its most common cause is Campylobacter infection.
In the UK, Campylobacter has been detected in 48 per cent of fresh chickens,'15 and in 11 out of 12 turkeys following processing and before sale.'16 A study in Northern Ireland found Campylobacter in 94 per cent of fresh chickens examined'17; another study found 64 per cent of chicken wings on retail sale contaminated with the bacterium. The organism is surprisingly resilient: it has been found to survive on chickens frozen for three months. Final search item not found on Google - (so far)
This is from source and I have been investigating whether or not in Vietnam we saw a possible mutation from the lung binding sites to a system Avian infectiion which somehow went through the blood stream past the normal acid barrier and was present in the human intestine.
I am not going to make the jump here, which will draw considerable fire that a mutation has occured which could be transmitted and also grow in the human bloodstream and intestines. And much less make an inference if such a thing were possible and low path that it could ..... I need more lab, more proof, and we need of course more human cases to study.
but read the following with an open mind -
from CDC
Infection of the gastrointestinal tract by avian influenza virus, including H5N1, is common in avian species (23,24). However, involvement of the gastrointestinal tract in H1 and H3 influenza infection is rare in humans (25). A patient with H5N1 influenza virus infection was reported to have diarrhea as the initial symptom, which raises the question of whether the gastrointestinal tract may is another site of viral replication and shedding, similar to its function in avian species (26). In another recent report of a patient with a fatal H5N1 infection and severe diarrhea and encephalitis in Vietnam, the virus was found in a rectal swab (27). Our data confirm that H5N1 influenza virus replication can occur in the gastrointestinal tract even in the absence of diarrhea. However, we do not know the extent of viral shedding in stool in this patient. The absence of pathologic changes in the intestine, despite the viral replication, is intriguing.
Conclusion : It is my thinking that Avian will mutate and if not already, will present as an intestinal infection, will be spread and be infectious in human feces as it is in birds. It is difficult to to evaluate how pathogenic this variation will be or how easily spread. If it were currently present in the population it would be very easy to misdiagnose and probably would go right through classic saftey nets for Avian detection.
This is the type of "jump" in thinking and hypothesis which needs a great deal of more research and testing. It is not impossible. There are cases of Avian in human with no pulmonary symptoms.
It is likely whatever we are battling here, is some common or less know intestinal virus, either expensive to diagnose, or unknown, as e. pylori was for cause stomach ulcers. It is possible due to the compromised immune system IBS and even diverticulosis is caused by up to a trio of viruses, and had we the technology and could identify the pathogens could be cures.
Whatever the cause...
suffering in West Virginia with quite a few people
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Posted: August 27 2006 at 9:20pm |
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Hi argyll,
Good for you ..not one to give up I see :) Are you adverse to telling me your county? Bet I could find something. I'll sure try. (by the way very nice pandemic prepare brochure you guys put together)
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Posted: August 28 2006 at 12:43am |
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New injection introduced for children Parents are being urged to have their babies inoculated against the pneumococcal virus, which kills one in 10 children who fall ill from it. The virus causes meningitis, blood poisoning and pneumonia.
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LoriCohen
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Posted: August 28 2006 at 10:58am |
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Holy moly! I *finally* found a place here in town that will give a pneumonia vaccine without a scrip or doctor's orders and it will set my back....$250! I'm sure it will be worth if the SHTF, but, man, that's a lot of moolah.
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July
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Posted: August 30 2006 at 10:13am |
Good link for info
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July
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Posted: August 30 2006 at 10:17am |
today at the Pediatrican I noticed this vaccine on the recommended chart posted in the office..
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LoriCohen
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Posted: September 01 2006 at 7:56am |
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Well, I'm not going to be able to get the vaccine. I can't find anywhere in town to get it and the one travel clinic that I found wanted $250 for 4 or 5 people. My husband said that he wasn't happy about spending the money and wanted to know why the dr was charging so much. I called and asked and the dr said he didn't want our business. Now we're screwed because my husband thinks I'm paranoid.
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Posted: September 02 2006 at 5:50am |
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hi July... Does it give an age for the baby? We have 2 over here...under age 2. thanks.
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argyll wrote: