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PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
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Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic since 2005; Coronavirus COVID-19 Pandemic Discussion Forum.

SPECIES BARRIER BROKEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Dutch Josh View Drop Down
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    Posted: March 20 2021 at 10:27pm

DJ-ksc yesterday posted a twitter story-[url]https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/-2019-ncov-new-coronavirus/-2019-ncov-studies-research-academia/910399-biorxiv-the-b1-351-and-p-1-variants-extend-sars-cov-2-host-range-to-mice-preprint[/url] or https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/-2019-ncov-new-coronavirus/-2019-ncov-studies-research-academia/910399-biorxiv-the-b1-351-and-p-1-variants-extend-sars-cov-2-host-range-to-mice-preprint  (latest news- UK variant in animals)

I (DJ) did find [url]https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/internet-communication/avian-flu-diary/910377-covid-variant-b-1-1-7-companion-animals[/url] or https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/internet-communication/avian-flu-diary/910377-covid-variant-b-1-1-7-companion-animals 

DJ-THIS IS TOP-AND-TERRIBLE- NEWS !!!!

SPECIES BARRIER BROKEN !!!!

THE VIRUS WON !!!

DJ-Since this is the general discussion part what does this mean-species barrier broken ? 

Coronavirus in animals was a known problem since the 1930's. We could not really get a grip on it there. Since the outbreak remained limited corona-virusses often stayed in their species after introduction into that species. 

Since Covid 19 did get that widespread-it most likely is the largest coronavirus outbreak ever-Covid19 managed to spread around the globe. We did see infections in minks-even spreading to humans in DK and NL (Denmark/Netherlands). 

Like with corona virus diseases in other animals the last step to control an outbreak was to kill all the infected animals. One does not do so with humans. 

The number of infected people-often with other infections-created variants. And some of those variants managed to get into other animals-pets, mice...

How bad is that ? 

-It is not yet clear on what scale the virus/variants may spread in these new hosts. But it is very likely new variants may spread more then the "old variant" did (in isolated Zoo-cases, tigers, apes or getting into pets when the owners did get Covid19).

-If Covid19 variants manage to A spread on a large scale in non-human hosts AND B still are able to spread infection/disease in human-hosts this pandemic will never end. 

-In that case Covid19-variants may have found 100's of billions of hosts to reproduce themselves and create variants. 

-Those "generation X" variants will create a generation "Y" variants able to find even newer hosts...(insects, trees, fish etc) we CAN NOT STOP THAT PROCES !!!

DJ-I am NOT an expert !!! Some of what I write is "speculation". Even if the above-worst case scenario is possible-it may NOT happen ! 

This story is for discussion. A lot of people on this forum have much better knowledge then I have ! The "news" is fresh-studies may need peer review or other studies may find something different !

DJ-In a "good-bad scenario" Covid19 could develop away from humans ! Vaccinations could "push" the virus killing rodents we wanted dead anyway...

Please comment/share your thoughts !

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2021 at 11:20pm

DJ [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOcsNfMePBY[/url] or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOcsNfMePBY A DW report from last august on interaction between humans and (other) animals in this pandemic. Covid19 most likely started in an animal-and several species could have started this virus-spread. Most likely a recombination (large mutation) made this coronavirus able to get-most likely from bats-animal "X"-to humans. 

The WHO is still trying to find out how exactly this pandemic started-the above scenario is very likely. (If frozen products played a further role is open for debate. It could have played a role in further transporting the virus. It is also not yet fully clear where exactly the virus started. It could be at more then one place-even early in 2019-and not "break through" into a major outbreak.)

The DW-report mentions also experiments on ferrets to see if virus (old variant) infection would give immunity. In the summer of 2020 that outlook (again for the old variant) was good. 

[url]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries[/url] or https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries DJ-When you look at the present pandemic and possible animal relations in it-for now without scientific proof !!!-animals may play a role. 

From monkees running up and down in a hospital in India to Africa people living close to animals. In Europe, North America it is very likely pets did get infected when "their humans" did get infected. With the "old variant" that hardly was a problem. The infection often only caused no or mild disease in the pets. It may have happened some pets (most likely cats) did spread the virus but on a very limited scale. The new variants changed that picture. 

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2021 at 11:31pm

[url]https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/-2019-ncov-new-coronavirus/-2019-ncov-studies-research-academia/910399-biorxiv-the-b1-351-and-p-1-variants-extend-sars-cov-2-host-range-to-mice-preprint[/url] or https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/-2019-ncov-new-coronavirus/-2019-ncov-studies-research-academia/910399-biorxiv-the-b1-351-and-p-1-variants-extend-sars-cov-2-host-range-to-mice-preprint ;Abstract

Receptor recognition is a major determinant of viral host range, as well as infectivity and pathogenesis. Emergences have been associated with serendipitous events of adaptation upon encounters with a novel host, and the high mutation rate of RNA viruses has been proposed to explain their frequent host shifts. SARS-CoV-2 extensive circulation in humans has been associated with the emergence of variants, including variants of concern (VOCs) with diverse mutations in the spike and increased transmissibility or immune escape. Here we show that unlike the initial virus, VOCs are able to infect common laboratory mice, replicating to high titers in the lungs. This host range expansion is explained in part by the acquisition of changes at key positions of the receptor binding domain that enable binding to the mouse angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) cellular receptor, although differences between viral lineages suggest that other factors are involved in the capacity of SARS-CoV-2 VOCs to infect mice. This abrogation of the species barrier raises the possibility of wild rodent secondary reservoirs and provides new experimental models to study disease pathophysiology and countermeasures.

DJ-This study is on laboratory mice ! But (my view) the findings suggests mice "in the wild" are able to catch "Virusses Of Concern" VOC=variants. The study itself did not find proof of any mice role in this pandemic-just that mice can get infected with VOC. 

[url]https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/internet-communication/avian-flu-diary/910377-covid-variant-b-1-1-7-companion-animals[/url] or https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/internet-communication/avian-flu-diary/910377-covid-variant-b-1-1-7-companion-animals ;

Although COVID-19 has become (in just over a year) predominantly a disease in humans it is believed to have originated in bats, and then jumped - either directly or via an intermediate host - to humans. Exactly how and where that occurred has yet to be determined.


While we've seen scattered reports of cats (big and small), and a few dogs infected with SARS-CoV-2 (see Seroprevalence of SARS-CoV-2 in Dogs & Cats - Italy), the biggest affected non-human species to date has been farmed mink (a close relative of ferrets).

Initial studies, conducted in the spring of 2020 (see Susceptibility of Ferrets, Cats, Dogs & Other Domestic Animals to SARS-CoV-2), found that `. . . SARS-CoV-2 replicates poorly in dogs, pigs, chickens, and ducks, but efficiently in ferrets and cats. We found that the virus transmits in cats via respiratory droplets.'

While relatively good news on the livestock front, the ability for companion animals like dogs and cats to become infected has raised concerns. More recent studies (see EID Journal: Susceptibility of Domestic Swine to Experimental Infection with SARS-CoV-2suggest livestock may be a bit more susceptible to SARS-CoV-2 infection that previously believed.

-

Slightly less reassuring is a preprint article - published on Thursday in BioRxiv - that documents myocarditis in B.1.1.7 infected pets in the UK. As always, the caveat applies that this is not a peer-reviewed study.


The authors report an abrupt increase (1.4% to 12.8%) in domestic dogs and cats presenting with myocarditis at a large veterinary clinic on the outskirts of London between December 2020 and February 2021, a timespan which corresponds with the rise of COVID B.1.1.7 in the UK.

While there appears to be a correlation between the B.1.1.7 variant and these cases of myocarditis, causality has yet to be proven. It is, however, an interesting finding.

DJ-[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myocarditis[/url] or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myocarditis = is inflammation of the heart muscle. and "correlation" means the UK variant increase in humans may not be related to an increase of hearth nuscle inflamation in pets. 

Again-this study certainly does NOT claim pets play a role in spreading the pandemic. [url]https://www.wormsandgermsblog.com/2021/03/articles/animals/cats/b-1-1-7-sars-cov-2-variant-pets-and-myocarditis/[/url] or https://www.wormsandgermsblog.com/2021/03/articles/animals/cats/b-1-1-7-sars-cov-2-variant-pets-and-myocarditis/ ;

It’s clear that people commonly pass SARS-CoV-2 to their pets. As this strain (and others) become more common in people, it’s inevitable that animals (particularly the pets we live with) will be exposed too. It’s unlikely (though possible) that the strain will be significantly less infective in animals than the original strain, so we fully expect to see it spillover into pets.  I assume there have been thousands of dogs and cats unknowingly infected with this and other variants of concern (VOCs) so far, but we test very few animals in COVID-19-affcected households. So, the Texas report was an expected confirmation that pets can also be infected with this VOC. We’re testing animals here in Canada too as part of our ongoing surveillance project.

Myocarditis in naturally infected pets with the British variant of COVID-19 (preprint)

This paper, which I will emphasize again has yet to be peer reviewed, will likely cause a bit of concern, but probably unnecessarily.

The authors observed an increase in dogs and cats presented to a referral veterinary clinic in the UK with myocarditis (inflammation of the heart). The concern was that the increase occurred at the same time the B.1.1.7 variant was surging through the human population in the UK.

  • Clinical observations of abnormal patterns are important. Most often, they end up being nothing remarkable – just random changes in normal events, or coincidences. Sometimes, though, they’re an early warning that something is going on. So, they are worth investigating.

Most owners of the affected animals reported having COVID-19 themselves in the 3-6 week period preceding the animals’ illnesses.

  • Interesting. Far from definitive (especially during a pandemic when lots of people are infected), but worthy of investigation.

They collected oro-nasal and rectal swabs from six cats and one dog with myocarditis in late January / early February. They also collected blood from these pets to look for antibodies against SARS-CoV-2. Blood samples were also collected from 4 other pets (2 cats, 2 dogs) that were recovering from myocarditis. None of the animals were reported to have had any respiratory disease.

  • 3 animals (2 cats and 1 dog) were positive on PCR for SARS-CoV-2 on rectal swabs, with a low viral load. All oro-nasal swabs were negative. The PCR test that was used indicated that the B.1.1.7 variant was present, although the test performance isn’t described.
  • Antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 were not detected in these 3 pets. That makes the results a challenge to interpret. Were the PCR results false positives, or were the serology results false negatives? It doesn’t seem like they followed up with later antibody testing of PCR-positive animals. That would help determine if they were antibody negative initially simply because they had not yet produced enough detectable antibodies (as that can take some time).
  • Three other animals (2 cats and 1 dog) had antibodies against the virus. Those animals were either PCR-negative (1) or PCR was not done (2).  If the serological test used was good (no information was provided on test performance or quality control), then I’d assume the PCR-negative, serology-positive animals had been infected at some point in the past.  PCR is only positive for a short period of time when the animal is actively infected and shedding virus, but antibodies can stick around for a long time after the infection is gone.

What does this tell us?

  • That some human-to-pet transmission of SARS-CoV-2 likely occurred (but we already know this happens).
  • The B.1.1.7 variant was involved (ditto).

Overall, 6/11 animals had some degree of evidence of exposure to SARS-CoV-2. That seems like a fairly high proportion, but it’s not far off the numbers we’re seeing with our work and work from other groups in healthy animals from COVID-19-positive households. So this does not provide any evidence of a link between SARS-CoV-2 infection in pets and myocarditis. Nonetheless, I wouldn’t dismiss it, and we should look into it more.

The authors’ statement that “the discovery of B.1.1.7 infected cats and dogs highlights more than ever the risk that companion animals may potentially play a significant role in SARS-CoV-2 outbreak dynamics than previously appreciated” has no substance. This study just showed that animals can be infected. It does not indicate anything about pets’ role in outbreak dynamics or anything else. We don’t want to ignore the potential that cats, in particular, could transmit the virus. However, their conclusion is unsupported and unlikely to be true.

DJ-Again-the (not yet peer reviewed) studies did NOT find proof of animals playing a major role in this pandemic. However;I’m fully on board with their last statement, though: “Therefore, there is an urgent need to greatly accelerate and strengthen the investigations and surveillance of animal infections by highly-transmissible variants such as British B.1.1.7, South-African B1.351 and Brazilian P.1 variants as part of the global response to the ongoing multi-species COVID-19 pandemic.”

DJ-Basicly we still have a problem in testing humans. Sequencing positive cases to detect variants is a global problem. It is very likely less then 1% of positive cases worldwide get sequenced so we may miss 99% of variants in humans...(and testing in children-that make contact with all kinds of animals more close then adults is a problem in itself). 

Testing in animals is "experimental". Even with variants spreading the general idea is that animals-if infected-only in the worst case may get mild symptoms and play no role in further spreading the virus. But we do not test/sequence over 99% of the cases...so we do not know !



We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2021 at 12:06am

[url]https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/welcome-to-the-scientific-library/genetics-aa/910350-int-j-infect-dis-genomic-surveillance-of-sars-cov-2-in-the-republic-of-congo[/url] or https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/welcome-to-the-scientific-library/genetics-aa/910350-int-j-infect-dis-genomic-surveillance-of-sars-cov-2-in-the-republic-of-congo ;Objective: We performed whole-genome sequencing (WGS) of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) from Congolese individuals sampled between April and July 2020.
Methods: We screened 96 samples for SARS-CoV-2 using RT-PCR, and 19 samples with Ct values <30 were sequenced using Illumina Next-Generation Sequencing (NGS). The genomes were annotated and screened for mutations using the web tool 'coronapp'. Subsequently, different SARS-CoV-2 lineages were assigned using PANGOLIN and Nextclade.
Results: Eleven SARS-CoV-2 genomes were successfully sequenced and submitted to the GSAID database. All genomes carried the spike mutation D614 G and were classified as part of the GH clade. The Congolese SARS-CoV-2 sequences belong to lineage B1 and nextclade 20A and 20C, which split into distinct clusters, indicating two separate introductions of the virus into the Republic of Congo.
Conclusion: This first study provides valuable information on SARS CoV-2 transmission in the central African region, contributing to SARS CoV-2 surveillance on a temporal and spatial scale.

DJ-Again NO PROOF !!! of any spread into wild animals ! But how likely is it that it did NOT happen ? Again [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronavirus[/url] or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronavirus most corona-virus infections are in other animals then in humans. 

[url]https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/welcome-to-the-scientific-library/genetics-aa/910337-infect-drug-resist-investigation-of-one-familial-cluster-of-covid-19-in-taiwan-differentiation-of-genetic-variation-among-isolates-and-implications-for-epidemiological-investigation-and-surveillance-by-genomic-assay[/url] or https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/welcome-to-the-scientific-library/genetics-aa/910337-infect-drug-resist-investigation-of-one-familial-cluster-of-covid-19-in-taiwan-differentiation-of-genetic-variation-among-isolates-and-implications-for-epidemiological-investigation-and-surveillance-by-genomic-assay ;This study aimed to investigate the clinical characteristics and differentiation of genetic variation among isolates from a cluster of familial COVID-19 infection. The parents had pneumonia (Case 14, father, and Case 15, mother), the elder son (Case 17) had mild cough, and the younger son (Case 18) was asymptomatic. In this study, four full viral genomes were sequenced by Illumina sequencing directly from specimens. Phylogenetic tree analysis revealed that these sequences came from Italy, not China, indicating that no major strain has been circulating in Taiwan. Several novel mutations were observed in the asymptomatic patient, such as nsp2, nsp12, and nsp14. These mutations may be associated with the severity of COVID-19 infection.

DJ-If in a small family cluster there seems to be TWO different forms of Covid19 how "flexible" is Covid19...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2021 at 12:31am

DJ-My conclusion is that there are lots of indications the species barrier has been broken. Both pets with the UK variant and mice in an experimental setting may get infected. Pets did show other symptoms then we most of the time see in human-infections. Heart muscle inflamation in stead of respitory symptoms. If they did further spread the virus-or could do so-the laboratory mice study indicates they may be able to spread the virus. 

Coronavirus are widespread in animals. So far corona virus in humans most of the time was related to colds. The SARS-1 and MERS remained limited. I think SARS-2 now is a disease (the COrona VIrus Disease-Covid 19) we have to share with other species. 

Since the spread is an ongoing proces we have to increase monitoring/testing/sequencing to limit the damage as best we can. 

Since Covid19/SARS-2 has found so much more hosts to reproduce themselves other variants will increase. Those variants may be a risk for humans but also some variants could stay in some other species. It will disrupt/effect the "natural order"/food chain . If we want to limit the dangers for our food production we have to protect our cows, pigs, chickens. Symptoms can be very different then we have seen so far-also indicating Covid19 variants could give other health issues in humans !

The way we deal with pets may also be something to reconsider. So far there is NO PROOF of pets spreading variants-but there is a correlation between the UK variant and hearth disease in pets. 

DJ-I think my conclusion "species barrier has been broken" is correct and alarming. It is meant to be alarming !!! We do not take this pandemic serious enough !!! In history pandemics may have ended civilizations-and we keep ignoring that !!!

We should do ALL WE CAN to get virus/variant spread under control (but we are not doing that...) 

Please give comments ! Am I seeing ghosts ? 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2021 at 9:27am

[url]https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/-2019-ncov-new-coronavirus/-2019-ncov-studies-research-academia/910399-biorxiv-the-b1-351-and-p-1-variants-extend-sars-cov-2-host-range-to-mice-preprint?view=stream[/url] or https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/-2019-ncov-new-coronavirus/-2019-ncov-studies-research-academia/910399-biorxiv-the-b1-351-and-p-1-variants-extend-sars-cov-2-host-range-to-mice-preprint?view=stream (latest activity);

The CDC summarizes recent findings on their COVID-19 and Animals webpage.


Research on animals and COVID-19

Many studies have been done to learn more about how this virus can affect different animals.
  • Recent experimental research shows that cats, dogs, ferrets, fruit bats, hamsters, and tree shrews can become infected with the virus. Cats, ferrets, fruit bats, and hamsters can also spread the infection to other animals of the same species in laboratory settings.
  • Data from studies suggest that dogs can get infected but might not spread the virus to other dogs as easily as cats and ferrets can spread the virus to other animals of the same species.
  • A number of studies have investigated non-human primates as models for human infection. Rhesus macaques, cynomolgus macaques, grivets, and common marmosets can become infected with SARS-CoV-2 and become sick in a laboratory setting.
  • Laboratory mice, pigs, chickens, and ducks do not seem to become infected or spread the infection based on results from studies.
These findings were based on a small number of animals, and do not show whether animals can spread infection to people. More studies are needed to understand if and how different animals could be affected by COVID-19.


The finding that pigs, chickens, and ducks do not appear susceptible to infection is particularly fortuitous, as farmed animals can often provide an emerging virus a safe harbor, and an evolutionary playground in which to experiment (see Preprint: Recurrent Mutations in SARS-CoV-2 Genomes Isolated from Mink Point to Rapid Host-Adaptation).

But the concern is that as SARS-CoV-2 continues to evolve, it may `figure out' - through genetic trial and error - how to infect, and spread in previously poorly susceptible hosts.

Last month, in EID Journal: SARS-CoV-2 Exposure in Escaped Mink, Utah, USAwe looked at a seroprevalence study done on wildlife captured in and around two infected mink farms, looking for signs of spillover.


Testing was done on 102 mammals (78 rodents and 24 mesocarnivores). Rodent captures consisted of 45 deer mice (Peromyscus maniculatus), 5 Peromyscus spp. mice25 house mice (Mus musculus), and 3 rock squirrels (Otospermophilus variegatus).While none of the rodents was found

In line with previous findings that (non-transgenic old world) mice are not susceptible to the virus, the authors reported that :11 mink escapees tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 antibodies by virus neutralization (Table). No other animal had a detectable antibody response.


While reassuring, the bulk of these studies have been conducted on the 2020 `wild type' SARS-CoV-2, as emerging variants (B.1.1.7, B.1.351, & P.1) have only become prominent in the past few months.

All of which brings us to a new (preprint) study that - similar to yesterday's report - suggests some of these emerging variants may be getting better at adapting to non-human hosts.


I've only included the link, abstract, and some excerpts from a much longer (16-page PDF) report. Follow the link to read it in its entirety.

SARS-CoV-2 extensive circulation in humans has been associated with the emergence of variants, including variants of concern (VOCs) with diverse mutations in the spike and increased transmissibility or immune escape 2.
Here we show that unlike the initial virus, VOCs are able to infect common laboratory mice, replicating to high titers in the lungs.
This host range expansion is explained in part by the acquisition of changes at key positions of the receptor binding domain that enable binding to the mouse angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) cellular receptor, although differences between viral lineages suggest that other factors are involved in the capacity of SARS-CoV-2 VOCs to infect mice.

This abrogation of the species barrier raises the possibility of wild rodent secondary reservoirs and provides new experimental models to study disease pathophysiology and countermeasures.

(SNIP)
Main Text:

Host range expansion or switch to other species has been prevalent in the course of coronaviruses evolutionary history 3 . Understanding the host range and how it is modified as the pathogen evolves is critical to estimate the emergence risk and determine the reservoirs to monitor. In the case of the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), responsible for the ongoing coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic, animals such as non-human primates, hamsters, ferrets, minks and cats were shown to be permissive 4 .

By contrast, the zoonotic virus was shown to not replicate in mice and rats due to poor binding of the virus spike on the rodent cellular receptor angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2).

At the end of 2020, the emergence of variants of concern (VOC) was noted in different parts of the world. The lineage B.1.1.7 (Pango designation 5 , also named 20I/501Y.V1 or VOC202012/01) was noted for its rapid spread in the UK 6 , while lineage B.1.351 (20H/501Y.V2) expanded in multiple regions of South Africa 7 and the P.1 (20J/501Y.V3) lineage emerged in Manaus, Brazil 8 . The global circulation and spread of these variants have led to concerns about increased transmission and their potential to evade immunity elicited by vaccination or naturally acquired.

All three variants harbor the N501Y change in the spike glycoprotein which belongs to a set of 6 key amino acid residues critical for the tight interaction of the RBD with hACE2 9 . Strikingly, this mutation was also noted, among others, in independently generated mouse-adapted SARS-CoV-2 strains 10,11. Here, we assessed the replication potential in cells and in mice of low-passage clinical SARS-CoV-2 isolates of the main lineages.
(SNIP)

Finally, although the infectious dose and the transmissibility between mice remain to be established for these new variants, as well as the permissiveness of related animal species, these results raise major questions on the risk of mice or other rodents living in proximity to humans of becoming secondary reservoirs for SARS-CoV-2 in regions where the B.1.351, P.1 or other specific variants circulate, from where they could evolve separately and potentially spillback to humans.

Indeed, rodents have been hypothesized as the ancestral host of some betacoronaviruses (lineage A, which includes the seasonal human coronaviruses OC43 and HKU1 20,21). While rodent densities are highly variable and more difficult to control, similar and actionable concerns were raised upon the detection of SARS-CoV-2 in Mink farms in The Netherlands 22 and in Denmark 23 due to the density of animals housed, and the detection of changes in the virus genome.

We posit that host range should be closely monitored along the continued evolution of SARS-CoV-2.

(Continue . . . )

Whether this apparent expansion of SARS-CoV-2's host range turns out to be merely a footnote in the evolutionary history of this pandemic virus - or rises to greater significance - remains to be seen.

It is, however, a reminder that with highly mutable viruses, we can't afford get too comfortable with their past behavior, as it can easily change over time.

https://afludiary.blogspot.com/2021/...ts-extend.html

DJ-If Covid 19 did find new hosts that is very major ! Some of the recent changes in variants of Covid19 also show up in corona virusses infecting mice. 

[url]https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/03/19/979314118/next-pandemic-scientists-fear-another-coronavirus-could-jump-from-animals-to-hum?t=1616332027926[/url] or https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/03/19/979314118/next-pandemic-scientists-fear-another-coronavirus-could-jump-from-animals-to-hum?t=1616332027926 ;

Now, scientists are worried that another coronavirus will strike again, from either a bat or some other animal. So they've gone hunting for potential sources — and the news is a bit concerning.

"Coronaviruses are under our feet in rodents. They are above our heads in bats. We live in a kind of coronavirus world," says virologist Edward Holmes at the University of Sydney.

This past year, Holmes and his colleagues trapped several hundred bats in a tiny section of the Yunnan province in southern China — an area about the size of Los Angeles International Airport. They took samples of the bats' saliva, urine and feces. Then they looked for coronavirus genes inside the samples. What they found surprised him.

"So in this very small area that we sampled, about 1,100 hectare, there's an amazing number of bat viruses," says Holmes, who reported the findings online last week.

Holmes and his team found that the bats harbored 24 new coronaviruses, including four closely related to the virus that causes COVID-19, or SARS-CoV-2, and three viruses closely related to SARS-CoV, which caused a smaller outbreak back in 2003.

On top of that, Holmes says, the bat species carrying these viruses are common across most of Southeast Asia. "So imagine if you ran our experiment across the whole of Southeast Asia. You'd find an amazing diversity of coronaviruses," Holmes says. "And there's just an enormous number of them."

And depending on how you define a virus species, Holmes says, there are likely thousands of different coronaviruses all around the world. "We're only just starting to scratch the surface," he says. "The virusphere of coronaviruses is just immense."

And these pathogens aren't just hanging out in bats. Many types of animals carry these viruses, including dogs, cats, birds, chickens, pigs and rodents.

Now the two big questions are: How often do these viruses jump from animals into people and how often do they make people sick?

Back in 2018, scientists at the nonprofit EcoHealth Alliance tried to answer that question in communities from southern China, including villages in the same province where Holmes trapped the bats. The team drew blood from about 400 people and looked for signs of coronavirus antibodies in their blood.

In one area, they found that nearly 3% of people had been infected with an unknown coronavirus in the past few years. "That's pretty high," says Peter Daszak, who helped to lead the study.

If you expand those findings to all parts of Southeast Asia where people are exposed to these bats, Daszak estimates that more than a million people are infected with unknown coronaviruses each year.

In other words, new coronaviruses are constantly jumping from bats and other animals into people — a process scientists call "spillover."

"It's happening every day," Daszak says. "I look at the spillover event a bit like rain or snow. These viruses are getting into and trickling across our populations."

The vast majority of these spillover events do very little, he says. But each one gives the virus the opportunity to adapt and spread more easily from person to person. Every once in a while, a contagious virus infects a person who finds their way to a dense city, such as Wuhan.

Both Daszak and Edward Holmes agree: The next coronavirus outbreak could be right around the corner.

"I think we need to face reality here," Holmes says. "Coronavirus pandemics are not a once in a hundred year event. "The next one could come at any time. It could come in 50 years or in 10 years. Or it could be next year."

DJ-In a next phase we may not be able to find out if Covid19 did mutate/a new variant is spreading-or another corona virus jumped to humans. [url]https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-54918267[/url] or https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-54918267 mutated coronavirus may jump back and forth between animals

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roni3470 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2021 at 4:04pm

since we have found this is the case, I am assuming it has been the case for quite some time so I am not sure how this changes things much.  Just like mice have always carried lots of things that we no longer worry about.  Not sure what I am missing but I don't see thing being some OMG type scenario.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2021 at 9:46pm

roni3470-thank you for your reaction-but this IS an OMG type scenario..! Normally virusses stick to one species. Covid19 variants did "cross that limit". Since "spring is in the air" mice, cats etc. will start "to mate and recreate" in that way spreading the virus...

It is like humans colonizing another planet...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roni3470 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2021 at 9:28am

Right?!?!  but did it "just" break the human/animal barrier, or are we just detecting that it did?  Thats my point I guess is that perhaps it has always been spread by animals and we just now detected it.  I am not proclaiming anything here, just discussing.  In the end, i have no idea really.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2021 at 4:07pm

The Chinese were throwing cats off the balconies last year at the start of all of this......

So I think it's fair to say...


We are screwed.....lol

Take care all 😷😉


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2021 at 10:28pm

roni3470-I have been rethinking...did i had to much coffee, to little sleep...proberbly both (and related)..Still I think this is a major story !

Yes-earlier on animals did get Covid19 infections from humans but those animals were under "human control". The point is some new Covid-variants seem to closer to corona virusses in animals (in this case mice) NOT under our control...

Also-YES-pets did get often mild infections from the earlier variant. But in the UK there is an increase the UK variant is causing infection of the heart muscle in UK-variant infected pets. Two major changes-both alarming !

1-New variants closer to corona virusses in "wild animals" close enough to be able to spread with no further link with humans

2-Pets getting more severe but other symptoms from the UK variant (maybe with a link to MIS-C)..

The most alarming thing is that so far Covid19 "only" had 8 billion human hosts-the number of infections in other animals remained very limited. Due to variants the number of hosts exploded...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2021 at 2:17am

WIRED: Covid Spilled From Animals to Humans. Now It’s Spilling Back.

https://www.wired.com/story/covid-spilled-from-animals-to-humans-now-its-spilling-back

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roni3470 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2021 at 6:36pm

Hey Dutch.  Thats fair.  Honestly, I am worried but choosing to stay on the positive side to keep myself sane.  I see all types of negative scenarios that can happen and its terrifying!  Just hoping and praying for the best!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2021 at 10:59pm

roni3470 First of all-again-I (DJ) am NOT an expert at all !  I am just sharing my thoughts-also trying not to get depressed/crazy or into denial/ignorence...

Second-Maybe a very likely scenario is "limited spread"; some more animals can catch/spread Covid19 with as a result maybe very limited mutations/recombinations in those non-human hosts resulting in a very limited number of new variants...

With enough sequencing we would be able to detect those variants and contain them. Vaccinations are on their way-will offer some protection. Not only against disease but possibly also against getting infected/spread of variants. 

The most important tool in any crisis is communication. But you need a realistic message ! Social distancing and travel bans has to be that message ! If governments do not get that-people may get that !

I think that in the "pandemic circus" 20/30% of the people sticking to social distance, masks etc can make a difference-slow the pandemic. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2021 at 6:52am

[url]https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/internet-communication/avian-flu-diary/910910-cdc-investigating-possible-mink-to-human-transmission-of-sars-cov-2-in-the-united-states[/url] or https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/internet-communication/avian-flu-diary/910910-cdc-investigating-possible-mink-to-human-transmission-of-sars-cov-2-in-the-united-states ;

  • Currently, there is no evidence that mink are playing a significant role in the spread of SARS-CoV-2 to people. However, there is a possibility of mink spreading SARS-CoV-2 to people on mink farms. Mink to human spread of SARS-CoV-2 has been reported in the Netherlands, Denmark, and Poland, and new data suggest it might have occurred in the United States.

    • Investigations found that mink from a Michigan farm and a small number of people were infected with SARS-CoV-2 that contained unique mink-related mutations (changes in the virus’s genetic material). This suggests mink to human spread might have occurred.

DJ-Michegan is reporting a lot of variant cases. Farm workers will spread those variants in mink. 

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
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